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ATF loses track of 1,400 guns in criticized probe
CNN ^ | 7/12/11 | Todd Schwarzschild and Drew Griffin,

Posted on 07/12/2011 6:28:22 PM PDT by Nachum

(CNN) -- Federal agents can't account for more than 1,400 guns after a widely criticized operation aimed at tracing the flow of weapons to Mexican drug gangs, sources with knowledge of the investigation tell CNN.

Of 2,020 guns involved in the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives probe dubbed "Operation Fast and Furious," 363 have been recovered in the United States and 227 have been recovered in Mexico. That leaves 1,430 guns unaccounted for, the sources said.

The ATF operation was intended to build cases against Mexican drug cartels by allowing firearms to go from the United States into Mexico. The hope was by tracing the guns in Mexico, agents would be able to determine the structure of various cartels and then bring them down.

(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: atf; castaway; dea; doj; fastandfurious; fbi; gunrunner; gunwalker; holder; loses; melson; obama; track

1 posted on 07/12/2011 6:28:25 PM PDT by Nachum
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To: Jet Jaguar; NorwegianViking; ExTexasRedhead; HollyB; FromLori; EricTheRed_VocalMinority; ...

The list, ping

Let me know if you would like to be on or off the ping list


2 posted on 07/12/2011 6:29:57 PM PDT by Nachum (The complete Obama list at www.nachumlist.com)
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To: All

The list of Gunrunner-gate files in historical order

http://www.nachumlist.com/gunrunner.htm


3 posted on 07/12/2011 6:32:06 PM PDT by Nachum (The complete Obama list at www.nachumlist.com)
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To: Nachum

I wonder if they’re being honest here.


4 posted on 07/12/2011 6:34:33 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: Nachum

my guess is that they are in Mexico.


5 posted on 07/12/2011 6:35:02 PM PDT by television is just wrong
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Lamestreamers finally being dragged kicking and screaming to the story.


6 posted on 07/12/2011 6:38:39 PM PDT by hemogoblin
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To: Nachum
The ATF operation was intended to build cases against Mexican drug cartels by allowing firearms to go from the United States into Mexico.

That, of course, is complete BS. The ATF operation was intended to build the case for expanding limitations on the rights of US citizens to purchase and own firearms.

7 posted on 07/12/2011 6:40:35 PM PDT by Spartan79 (I view great cities as pestilential to the morals, the health, and the liberties of man.)
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To: Nachum

Check the local Communist Party of Mexico Headquarters.


8 posted on 07/12/2011 6:42:49 PM PDT by screaminsunshine (Socialism...Easier said than done.)
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To: screaminsunshine

http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2011/07/10/mexico-drug-cartel-leader-arrested-guns-supplied-exclusively-government-34291/

Speaking of that...


9 posted on 07/12/2011 6:44:01 PM PDT by Nachum (The complete Obama list at www.nachumlist.com)
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To: Nachum

That’s bs. CNN is putting this story out to help Obama and Holder.


10 posted on 07/12/2011 6:47:15 PM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: Nachum

The ATF and Obama never intended for these guns to be tracked or accounted for. CNN knows that.


11 posted on 07/12/2011 6:49:06 PM PDT by Rudder (The Main Stream Media is Our Enemy---get used to it.)
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To: Nachum
The hope was by tracing the guns in Mexico, agents would be able to determine the structure of various cartels and then bring them down.

A competent law enforcement would have had a strategy. With the quality of leadership in the BATF they create operations based on hope. I tend to think it was not about hope or cartels.

12 posted on 07/12/2011 6:53:02 PM PDT by oyez (The difference in genius and stupidity is that genius has limits.)
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To: Nachum

How did CNN stumble into a slice of reality?


13 posted on 07/12/2011 6:54:43 PM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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To: arrogantsob
How did CNN stumble into a slice of reality?

The story is now big enough that CNN and AP, and others are being called on to "manage" it by pretending there was a legitimate justification for arming drug cartels.

14 posted on 07/12/2011 7:01:19 PM PDT by Interesting Times (WinterSoldier.com. SwiftVets.com. ToSetTheRecordStraight.com.)
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To: Spartan79

I thought that once too, That the whole thing was to give Obama a chance to tak a shot at the 2nd. Amendment. Now I am not so sure.

I believe now that Obama’s shot at the 2nd. Amendment was just a happy happenstance of supplying the Cartels with guns, and that the drug deals and money paid off to American CIA and who knows who in American politics was the real reason.

I believe this thing if properly investigatd goes to the top and will make Watergate look like a Grade school field trip.


15 posted on 07/12/2011 7:02:31 PM PDT by Venturer
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To: Nachum

Wow - CNN - whodathunkit?!


16 posted on 07/12/2011 7:02:56 PM PDT by AD from SpringBay (We deserve the government we allow.)
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To: Spartan79
The Socialist mind knows that the public has to be manipulated or even criminalized to give up its freedom.
17 posted on 07/12/2011 7:07:25 PM PDT by oyez (The difference in genius and stupidity is that genius has limits.)
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To: vette6387; MetaThought; 60Gunner; XHogPilot; FreedomPoster; Josephat; Prince of Space; ...

FOR REFERENCE:

David Codrea:
MISCONCEPTIONS...

Reference Links in Order:
Nachumlist Gunruunner

18 posted on 07/12/2011 7:13:51 PM PDT by MestaMachine (Guns don't kill people, the obama administration does. (Gunwalker Ping List))
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To: Nachum

They lost track of all the 2020 guns. The ones they have accounted for include those already used in murders and other crimes. CNN made a good effort to minimize the story, but it still is ugly.


19 posted on 07/12/2011 7:16:41 PM PDT by Oldexpat
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To: little jeremiah

My gut tells me that 1400 is a little low.


20 posted on 07/12/2011 7:17:29 PM PDT by 2111USMC (Not a hard man to track. Leaves dead men wherever he goes.)
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To: 2111USMC

One would be foolish to take anything this administration says at face value.

Except stuff like this; he’s telling the truth here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2747572/posts

Obama: my administration is most pro-gay in history

WASHINGTON, D.C., July 12, 2011 (LifeSiteNews.com) – President Barack Obama again vowed his fidelity to the homosexual lobby at a White House reception in honor of LGBT pride month, boasting that his administration has done more than any other president to advance their cause.

“This administration, under my direction has consistently said we cannot discriminate as a country against people on the basis of sexual orientation, and we have done more in the two-and-a-half years I have been in here than the previous 43 presidents to uphold that principle,” said Obama at a news conference June 29, the day of the reception...


21 posted on 07/12/2011 7:24:19 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: Nachum
This whole thing has CIA written all over it.


22 posted on 07/12/2011 7:24:36 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum ("A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves." - Bertrand de Jouvenel des Ursins)
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To: Spartan79

You are of course correct. One wonders if CCN’s reporter is just stupid or is he and CCN complicit in the attempt to void the Second Amendment. I believe the second proposition is the case.


23 posted on 07/12/2011 7:29:29 PM PDT by dominic flandry
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To: Venturer

This was a CIA op. Multiple cartels have gotten guns from this program. One jailed cartel leader says he was a CIA asset. He isn’t allowed to speak to anyone but his attorney and jailers above a certain rank. They rotate him between 4 cells.

Holder may have been told to let those guns walk.

I am not excusing anyone...but if you read the colums from the two people who broke this story..it is clear the CIA was involved with this.

It is possible it was put in place by Holder and CIA saw an opportunity.

My favorite quote so far is from Michael Levine:

“Running guns into Mexico into the hands of criminals? There can be no objective to this but death, and lots of it.

The events in Operation Fast and Furious are eerily identical to those surrounding the arrest of General Ramon Guillen Davila, a CIA asset who was [indicted for] smuggling a ton of cocaine into the US [in] 1996, in what was described as an intelligence gathering operation, the problem being that no intelligence was ever gathered and that the ton was only one of many other similar shipments of cocaine that actually hit the streets of the U.S. by way of CIA agents.

If I were a criminal profiler, it wouldn’t take much to identify a CIA pattern here [with Fast and Furious]: A wacko, barroom commando, illegal operation that makes no sense whatsoever, run outside the control of law enforcement”


24 posted on 07/12/2011 7:37:07 PM PDT by RummyChick
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To: Nachum
This from CNN.

We're getting somewhere.

25 posted on 07/12/2011 7:38:00 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: Nachum

If this were a Republican problem...HEADS WOULD ROLL.


26 posted on 07/12/2011 7:39:23 PM PDT by HMS Surprise (Chris Christie can go to hell.)
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To: Nachum

Damn, I’ve never lost track of that many guns.


27 posted on 07/12/2011 7:43:11 PM PDT by Doomonyou (Let them eat Lead.)
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To: Nachum

And I’m sure that the solution from Obama/BATFE/Holder will be that we stupid, bitter clingers need...MORE GUN CONTROL.


28 posted on 07/12/2011 7:45:31 PM PDT by SIDENET ("If that's your best, your best won't do." -Dee Snider)
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To: HMS Surprise
If this were a Republican problem...HEADS WOULD ROLL.

We'd be seeing nonstop, graphic footage of dead Mexican children with gunshot wounds.

29 posted on 07/12/2011 7:49:06 PM PDT by SIDENET ("If that's your best, your best won't do." -Dee Snider)
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To: Nachum

When the furor dies down a bit, they’ll release the real number. Just a guess, but I’d be willing to bet that the “real number” is roughly a factor of ten larger than the current number.


30 posted on 07/12/2011 7:53:30 PM PDT by Steely Tom (Obama goes on long after the thrill of Obama is gone)
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To: Spartan79
The ATF operation was intended to build the case for expanding limitations on the rights of US citizens to purchase and own firearms.

Texas, 3 Other States Under New Gun Buying Rule

Yet another rule..............

31 posted on 07/12/2011 7:54:08 PM PDT by Sarajevo (The only reason I would take up walking is so that I could hear heavy breathing again.)
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To: Mariner

Issa has named names . The Dirty Dozen.

Media can’t stop this...


32 posted on 07/12/2011 7:57:47 PM PDT by RummyChick
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To: Spartan79; All
You say - and we know - that:”That, of course, is complete BS. The ATF operation was intended to build the case for expanding limitations on the rights of US citizens to purchase and own firearms.”

And even after his scheme was exposed, he still has the IN YOUR FACE gall to do JUST that TODAY with another of his fiats = ah, Executive Orders.

Didja all miss it? (worries me that even Freepers, who know the game, don't seem to be aware that he is not slowing down his plan even as the scandal is breaking all around him.)

He just pretends this is totally unconnected. And he knows 96% of America will swallow it.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/obama-executive-orders-impose-new-gun-rules/

“Through an Executive Order, the Obama administration is implementing new restrictions on the sale of certain weapons in border states, and increasing the penalties for violating certain firearms laws.”

33 posted on 07/12/2011 8:05:22 PM PDT by maine-iac7 (I AM ISRAEL)
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To: Spartan79
...363 have been recovered in the United States and 227 have been recovered in Mexico... The ATF operation was intended to build cases against Mexican drug cartels...

363 guns recovered in the United States and 227 - a much smaller number in Mexico. Holder's enemy list seems to include: white middle class, middle aged men who cling to guns and religion; legal gun owners; the second amendment, and citizens who legally sell guns - oh and Mexican cartels ...

34 posted on 07/12/2011 8:21:05 PM PDT by GOPJ (Honk if I'm paying for your car, your mortgage, and your big, fat Greek bailout - mewzilla)
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To: SIDENET
And I’m sure that the solution from Obama/BATFE/Holder will be that we stupid, bitter clingers need...MORE GUN CONTROL.

Didn't we hear today that the ATF wants gun dealers to report those who purchase two or more guns in a five day period?

I can't seem to find a link, but heard that on Rush,

Gun Control is what this is all about.

35 posted on 07/12/2011 8:21:35 PM PDT by KittenClaws (A closed mouth gathers no foot.)
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To: television is just wrong
my guess is that they are in Mexico.

If not, they're in rented storage lockers near federal office buildings, or maybe just stored in the basement. They're just laying low until this little flap blows over, and then they start walking again.

Another possibility is that the 2000+ weapons, made by legal purchase because of federal fiat, have also been walked to elsewhere in Central America to show fraternal solidarity with comrade Huge-o Chavez. On large transactions like this, 90% of the items are intended for the CIA, with other agencies buying in to provide cover.

If the feds can't restart this program, they'll just let all the badges in on this scam "walk" one or two home with them as a well-deserved bonus. After all, these are legally-purchased weapons (as long as they stay in the US), due to the on-the-spot permission they gave. They are not on any hotlist as stolen or contraband.

36 posted on 07/12/2011 8:25:04 PM PDT by 300winmag (Overkill Never Fails)
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To: oyez
The hope was by tracing the guns in Mexico, agents would be able to determine the structure of various cartels and then bring them down.

Can't buy this excuse... it's too lame even for the MSM to buy it ... The guns did NOT have tracking devices on them ... if they did this excuse might fly for an hour or two. But that wasn't the case. I doubt they fired all the guns so they could do a comparison and see how many of our brave border patrol people were shot with what gun... given to what cartel. So the 'agents trying to determine structure of various cartels is bull...a lie, a fabrication, wool being pulled over eyes...crap - even too stupid for the MSM to swallow.

37 posted on 07/12/2011 8:27:30 PM PDT by GOPJ (Honk if I'm paying for your car, your mortgage, and your big, fat Greek bailout - mewzilla)
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To: Interesting Times

SOP


38 posted on 07/12/2011 8:35:32 PM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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To: Interesting Times

SOP


39 posted on 07/12/2011 8:35:41 PM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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To: Nachum
It's no big deal...What's a few thousand arms into one of the most corrupt countries on the planet, where violence is a way of life?

Come on....I see no problem...

40 posted on 07/12/2011 8:42:59 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: Nachum

Just thinking out loud here—Let’s reflect:

January 2009, Obama is named “Gun Salesman of the Year”

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2165726/posts

Angry and petulant, Obama responds in March 2009, new ATF Director Melson is appointed and Project Gunnrunner “evolves” into Fast & Furious; and Drug cartels, not Americans, get firearms from the U.S. government.

In spite.


41 posted on 07/12/2011 8:53:36 PM PDT by reagandemocrat
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To: Nachum

Could you remove me from your ping list.

Thanks!


42 posted on 07/12/2011 8:53:45 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: Nachum
The hope was by tracing the guns in Mexico, agents would be able to determine the structure of various cartels carelessly flaunting the law and abusing its power, the Obama Administration could launch an indirect assault on Second Amendment rights and then bring them down.

Accuracy correction.

43 posted on 07/13/2011 5:33:43 AM PDT by Colonel_Flagg (You're either in or in the way.)
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Comment #44 Removed by Moderator

To: Nachum

Someone at cnn is about to lose their job.
Not playing by the rules here.

must cover for the one.


45 posted on 07/13/2011 6:30:31 AM PDT by Texas resident (Hunkered Down)
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