Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The GOP's Reality Test Republicans who oppose Boehner's debt deal are playing into Obama's hands.
WSJ ^ | JULY 27, 2011

Posted on 07/27/2011 8:34:17 AM PDT by woofie

The debt-limit debate is heading toward a culmination, with President Obama reduced to pleading for the public to support a tax increase and Speaker John Boehner and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid releasing competing plans that are the next-to-last realistic options. The question now is whether House Republicans are going to help Mr. Boehner achieve significant progress, or, in the name of the unachievable, hand Mr. Obama a victory.

Mr. Obama recognizes these stakes, threatening yesterday to veto the Boehner plan in a tactical move to block any Democratic support. The White House is afraid that it will pass the House and then become the only debt-ceiling vehicle if Mr. Reid can't get 60 votes for his own proposal in the Senate. This would short-circuit Mr. Obama's plan to blame the GOP for a U.S. credit downgrade, any market turmoil, a possible default, and the lousy economy too.

*** Under the two-phase Boehner plan, Congress would authorize $1 trillion in new debt in return for $1.2 trillion in budget cuts over the next decade. Most of that will come from caps on domestic discretionary spending over 10 years—the Pentagon and homeland security are exempt—with automatic spending cuts if the caps are breached. While one Congress cannot bind another, the proposal would at least guarantee real reductions in fiscal years 2012 and 2013.

(redact)

If conservatives defeat the Boehner plan, they'll not only undermine their House majority. They'll go far to re-electing Mr. Obama and making the entitlement state that much harder to reform.

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: debt; obama; politics
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-62 next last
If conservatives defeat the Boehner plan, they'll not only undermine their House majority. They'll go far to re-electing Mr. Obama and making the entitlement state that much harder to reform.

So what if this writer is correct?

1 posted on 07/27/2011 8:34:25 AM PDT by woofie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: woofie

Either way we are hosed....the Boehner plan only promises cuts way out in the future, which we know will never come to pass. Not matter which plan is eventually adopted, it won’t address the debt problem.


2 posted on 07/27/2011 8:36:54 AM PDT by Turtlepower
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: woofie

Sorry, But I for one, am sick and tired of sacrificing principle for strategy.

I wonder where would be if this was the standard practice in 1776?


3 posted on 07/27/2011 8:37:00 AM PDT by SoConPubbie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SoConPubbie

If he is right you will have no strategy and no principal


4 posted on 07/27/2011 8:39:25 AM PDT by woofie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: woofie

Agreed.

This is a cave of monumental proportions. Giving up without a fight. Typical GOP behavior.

Paul Ryan coming out and defending this really diminishes him in my eyes.


5 posted on 07/27/2011 8:41:00 AM PDT by BrewingFrog (I brew, therefore I am!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: woofie

1.2 trillion in cuts over a period already increasing by about 45 trillion is not enough.


6 posted on 07/27/2011 8:41:41 AM PDT by Ingtar (Together we go broke (from a Pookie18 post))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: woofie

Of the 1.2 trillion in spending cuts, how much takes place in the first year of Boehner’s plan? I know the answer, just wondering if you do.


7 posted on 07/27/2011 8:42:00 AM PDT by vbmoneyspender
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: woofie

So if they pass Boehner’s plan we get no cuts. If they pass the Dem plan we get no cuts. Hard to see why it’s such a big deal either way.


8 posted on 07/27/2011 8:43:14 AM PDT by Lost Highway (I don't know what the world may need but a V8 engines a good start for me)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Ingtar

I think its down around 1 billion.....
You guy may be right ....but this makes me nervous as all I want is an end to Obomaville


9 posted on 07/27/2011 8:45:19 AM PDT by woofie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: woofie

BS. boner sandbagged the membership and us with the last one so we should let him sandbag us with this one. After all things got so much better after toe last one didn’t it. The author ia a closit leftist or a coward or both which would make him a RINO....

Compromise is what has got us to this point assuming that more compromise will fix it is pure lunacy.


10 posted on 07/27/2011 8:50:09 AM PDT by Breto (never accept the premise)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: woofie
This would short-circuit Mr. Obama's plan to blame the GOP for a U.S. credit downgrade, any market turmoil, a possible default, and the lousy economy too.

Now the WSJ is writing satire. Conservatives will get blamed NO MATTER WHAT does or doesn't get passed.

11 posted on 07/27/2011 8:53:01 AM PDT by edpc (I disagree. Circle gets the square.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: woofie
This country is heading for a brick wall at warp 10.

When it hits and auctions start to fail because nobody else has the money to lend to the US govt and the death spiral finally happens because the tap is truly empty, we'll probably be blamed for it anyways.

I'd rather have a clear conscience be clear that my party and did everything possible to stop the Dems from destroying this lovely country.

Look. What's to understand? we spend 1.5 TRILLION++ every single year more than we take in. There is NO reason in the world that we can't spend WHAT we bring in. Someone is going to have to explain to me why 2+ trillion dollars isn't enough for the us govt. If they can't do with 2 trillion, then they ARE too big and need to be cut back, hugely.

And what's going to be cut? The lefty social programs? NPR? PBS? Dept Edu? Planned Parenthood? Welfare queens? $42 billion food stamps? Not a chance!! The Space Program. Roads. Bridges. The Military. Research and Development. Those things that make America strong.

I think that the Right wing is doing exactly as they should. Why can nobody learn? We're going to be blamed for everything wrong that happens by the lies Dem tells their bootlickers in the press, so let's just do what we think is right without all the white guilt, huh?

12 posted on 07/27/2011 8:53:06 AM PDT by HeartlandOfAmerica (Geithner: Taxes on 'Small Business' Must Rise So Government Doesn't 'Shrink')
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Lost Highway
Politally it's a big deal.

If Boehner's deal passes, Obama's support crumbles bigtime.

That sets us up for more momentum in the Ryan talks, not to mention far more hope that we take the Senate and WH in '12.

13 posted on 07/27/2011 8:53:49 AM PDT by Siena Dreaming
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Siena Dreaming

So do I read you correctly? You’re content with raising the debt limit now in promise for some nebulous cuts in a year or so?


14 posted on 07/27/2011 8:58:39 AM PDT by HeartlandOfAmerica (Geithner: Taxes on 'Small Business' Must Rise So Government Doesn't 'Shrink')
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: woofie; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; stephenjohnbanker; DoughtyOne; calcowgirl; Gilbo_3; NFHale; ...
RE :”Mr. Obama recognizes these stakes, threatening yesterday to veto the Boehner plan in a tactical move to block any Democratic support. The White House is afraid that it will pass the House and then become the only debt-ceiling vehicle if Mr. Reid can't get 60 votes for his own proposal in the Senate. This would short-circuit Mr. Obama’s plan to blame the GOP for a U.S. credit downgrade, any market turmoil, a possible default, and the lousy economy too. *** Under the two-phase Boehner plan, Congress would authorize $1 trillion in new debt in return for $1.2 trillion in budget cuts over the next decade. Most of that will come from caps on domestic discretionary spending over 10 years—the Pentagon and homeland security are exempt—with automatic spending cuts if the caps are breached. While one Congress cannot bind another, the proposal would at least guarantee real reductions in fiscal years 2012 and 2013.
(redact) If conservatives defeat the Boehner plan, they'll not only undermine their House majority. They'll go far to re-electing Mr. Obama and making the entitlement state that much harder to reform.

I dont know about Obama’s re-election given a debt limit train wreck, but how about Boehner goes to Pelosi this weekend offering a surrender for Democrat votes? , and then worst case maybe Pelosi comes back as Speaker in 2013?

While I am hesitant to support specific proposed plans that usually turn out to be dog-crap, House Republicans (including Boehner and tea party members ) need to understand that Democrats are playing this as a team, and playing it to win. And taking a stand just to take a stand and losing big will not look good in the history books.

15 posted on 07/27/2011 8:58:53 AM PDT by sickoflibs (If you pay zero Federal income taxes, don't say you are paying your 'fair share')
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: woofie; All

” So what if this writer is correct? “

He isn’t. The Republicans are holding all the cards.


16 posted on 07/27/2011 9:02:21 AM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sickoflibs

We are playing a dangerous game of chess with an opponent with no scruples. I hope we make the right moves here.


17 posted on 07/27/2011 9:03:04 AM PDT by ZULU (Crapo, Coburn and Chambliss are a herd of renegade RINOs.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Siena Dreaming
If Boehner's deal passes, Obama's support crumbles bigtime

So does TEA Party conservative support of Republicans who vote for the plan that raises debt without corresponding real cuts to entitlement spending ... a potential electoral disaster for Republicans in 2012.

18 posted on 07/27/2011 9:03:20 AM PDT by glennaro
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: glennaro
Don't think so.

A win on Boehner's side keeps the right gunning for far more cuts...as it should be, especially if the second half of Boehner's plan includes entitlements.

Meanwhile, it completely dispirits the left and their agenda. They not only got no increased spending or tax hikes...they will have seen Obama lose the entire debate which means none of their arguments move forward from here on.

19 posted on 07/27/2011 9:08:47 AM PDT by Siena Dreaming
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Siena Dreaming
I understand your point, but Boehner's plan sounds a lot like the "although-we've-caved-a-bit-this-time-just-you-wait-we'll-really-get'em-next-time" Republican strategy we've lived with since the Democratic Socialists returned to power in 2008.
20 posted on 07/27/2011 9:14:39 AM PDT by glennaro
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: woofie

Right now House Republicans can either compromise and get the best deal possible with the most spending cuts, or do nothing and see what happens.

Its controlled chaos or roll the dice.


21 posted on 07/27/2011 9:19:52 AM PDT by Reagan Man ("In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: woofie
If he is right you will have no strategy and no principal

No, you're wrong both ways.

You always have principle.

It your choice to fight for something or to compromise your principles.
22 posted on 07/27/2011 9:23:44 AM PDT by SoConPubbie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: glennaro
Boehner didn't cave.

He is still saying exactly what he & Cantor have said all along. Tax cuts equal to or in excess of the debt hike and no tax increase.

All along people have said Boehner would cave. Well, he hasn't.

Now, they're saying they don't want the cuts over ten years and of course the MSM is stoking that argument. Now the argument is no longer that he will cave about taxes and such but they've changed the goal posts to "we don't want ten year timeframes."

But if Boehner can win this one, we move on to the next one and get a little more (and we will because Obama has been weakened by this debate)...and the next one with a little more...etc. until we capture Senate and WH and then we of course have much more ability to do a lot more.

23 posted on 07/27/2011 9:25:29 AM PDT by Siena Dreaming
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: woofie
I think Boehner and the republican party are facing quite A dilemma here. If this deal doesn't pass, we find out if it really helps the dems and Obama, and throws chaos into our economy.

If it does pass, the tea party burns down the republican party into a small pile of ashes.
24 posted on 07/27/2011 9:28:09 AM PDT by ZX12R (FUBO GTFO 2012 !)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: woofie
It's obvious Boehner's plan needed amendment.

So amend it and pass it.

Not too complicated.

25 posted on 07/27/2011 9:33:18 AM PDT by Crichton
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ZULU
RE :"We are playing a dangerous game of chess with an opponent with no scruples. I hope we make the right moves here."

Pretty much, Obama will say ANYTHING, claim ANYTHING, deny ANYTHING. He has no shame, only a desire to win.

I get the impression that a number of House members are in the wrong session of congress, The one they were born for was the last session in the minority of both houses and the WH, where blocking everything and voting no on everything and not having to pass anything was an automatic easy win. But as I said last year many times , taking over the House (speakership) is going to make 2012 much more difficult. It requires looking like you(they) are producing something and deficit cutting is unpopular business.

26 posted on 07/27/2011 9:34:14 AM PDT by sickoflibs (If you pay zero Federal income taxes, don't say you are paying your 'fair share')
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: sickoflibs

I don’t know what the answers are. I just hope and pray whatever they do enhances our chances for getting that Marxist Muslim Liar Imposter out of Washington.

Right now, everything else is secondary.


27 posted on 07/27/2011 9:38:23 AM PDT by ZULU (Crapo, Coburn and Chambliss are a herd of renegade RINOs.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Siena Dreaming

The problem is that the up front cuts are so miniscule that we will be at the debt limit again in the early spring. Then the public is going to be p.o’d and think ‘already, I thought we were taking care of the deficit?’

Harry Reid will then come out and say he offered to cut nearly triple what the GOP did. The Tea Party will be pissed and abandon the GOP. Obama will offer another bogus promise to cut and Reid will put together another sham budget with a 3T debt ceiling increase. They’ll look like kings and the Pubbies will watch their base leave. Pubbies lose.


28 posted on 07/27/2011 9:41:11 AM PDT by Free Vulcan (Vote Republican! You can vote Democrat when you're dead.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Reagan Man

Bull - House Republicans already did their job in passing Cut, cap and balance. Now, it’s up to Senate Republicans to pressure Reid to allow a vote for it. Cut, cap, and balance is the best deal we can get at this point. The pile of crap that Boehner proposed is worthless.

Republicans should be standing united for Cut, Cap, and Balance.


29 posted on 07/27/2011 9:41:53 AM PDT by Turtlepower
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Turtlepower

Probably so,but the way I look at it is it keeps the issue alive for the 2012 election so THE PEOPLE CAN DECIDE.
No one is going to do our work for us.If Obama gets his way now ,he will blame the downgrade,unemployment,stock market collapse all on the tea party and the media will double down on that.
The Tea party has made progress and can frame the whole election on OBAMA FAILURES AND HE KNOWS IT that’s why he wants the issue put past the 2012 election.Frame this election on his 4.6 billion dollars a day in spending compared to Bushs 1.6.
This guy has been and continues to plan for the collapse of our economy don’t give him ammunition to blame Real AMERICANS for his mess and only path left to him for reelection


30 posted on 07/27/2011 9:42:47 AM PDT by ballplayer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Free Vulcan
The problem is that the up front cuts are so miniscule that we will be at the debt limit again in the early spring. Then the public is going to be p.o’d

Wrong. The Boehner bill says the second part has to be taken care of by Spring. $1T now, another $1.7T by then.

31 posted on 07/27/2011 9:44:30 AM PDT by Siena Dreaming
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: stephenjohnbanker

Not when Obama and the main stream press gets through with them.The Republicans will be buried 24/7 on every left wing outlet,with sob stories galore all caused by RICH republicans all at Disneyworld while poor people starve


32 posted on 07/27/2011 9:48:26 AM PDT by ballplayer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: woofie

Rush is talking about an entirely different approach. He received the idea in an email.

FREEZE THE BUDGET right were it is. Do not allow spending even one dime more than was spent last year. If I heard him correctly, he suggests that this would amount to a $9 trillion dollar cut/savings.

I don’t as yet understand how one gets to that figure, but if it’s doable, it sure sounds worth considering.


33 posted on 07/27/2011 9:49:37 AM PDT by Gator113 (Palin 2012, period.....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Siena Dreaming

Every number I’ve seen has been over 10 years. If this amount is all up front then I’ll happily support it. The article itself says over 10 years for Boner’s plan. $1.1T over 10 years is worthless if we’re running $1.6T deficits.


34 posted on 07/27/2011 9:51:00 AM PDT by Free Vulcan (Vote Republican! You can vote Democrat when you're dead.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: woofie

Great observation.


35 posted on 07/27/2011 9:53:55 AM PDT by Deo et Patria
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: woofie
Oh, you agree with the writer that these conservatives will be "handing Obama an opportunity?"

What kind of win will Obama have - no budget, no increase, no new taxes, force the Administration to pay it's bills and promises and forced to cut "non-essential programs and workers" like they did during last years record snowfall??????

With the empty streets in DC, we soon found out who are "essential" to DC - and thus to US!

36 posted on 07/27/2011 9:56:49 AM PDT by zerosix (native sunflower)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Gator113

Addition to post #33. It seems I should have listened to more of his program before posting.

I look forward to the transcript of today’s program.


37 posted on 07/27/2011 9:56:55 AM PDT by Gator113 (Palin 2012, period.....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: woofie

I don’t understand how Freepers can expect to completely fix our deficit problems without the Senate and the Presidency? Ryan’s plan is an excellent step in the right direction, but we don’t have the votes to pass it, period.

The WSJ piece did really nail one observation:

“The idea seems to be that if the House GOP refuses to raise the debt ceiling, a default crisis or gradual government shutdown will ensue, and the public will turn en masse against....Barack Obama. The Republican House that failed to raise the debt ceiling would somehow escape all blame. Then Democrats would have no choice but to pass a balanced-budget amendment and reform entitlements, and the tea-party Hobbits could return to Middle Earth having defeated Mordor....This is the kind of crack political thinking that turned Sharron Angle and Christine O’Donnell into GOP Senate nominees.”

I wish I could get Cut, Cap, and Balance enacted in its entirety. Unfortunately, WE DO NOT HAVE CONTROL OF THE SENATE OR THE PRESIDENCY.


38 posted on 07/27/2011 9:58:07 AM PDT by Deo et Patria
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: woofie

I think it is more important for a plan to pass the house. Right now Boehner knows what he has won’t pass. From what we’ve learned it shouldn’t pass as it’s another watered down bunch of BS.

Better to re group and pass a bill that has broad support among republicans. The democrats were not going to vote for his plan anyway...


39 posted on 07/27/2011 9:58:49 AM PDT by nikos1121 (Stand up is hard if you're not funny.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Turtlepower

You DO realize that the legislation died in the Democrat-controlled Senate, right? Maybe if we hold our breaths and stamp on the floor really loud, we can just get it passed by the Senate anyway.

Seriously, we need to start thinking like adults and figure out how to get control of the Senate and Presidency instead of pretending we already have control.


40 posted on 07/27/2011 10:01:19 AM PDT by Deo et Patria
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: BrewingFrog
Paul Ryan coming out and defending this really diminishes him in my eyes.

You can add Lt. Col. West to that comment.

41 posted on 07/27/2011 10:03:38 AM PDT by houeto
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: ZULU
RE :"I don’t know what the answers are. I just hope and pray whatever they do enhances our chances for getting that Marxist Muslim Liar Imposter out of Washington. Right now, everything else is secondary."

I gave up 'serious' hopes like that in 2008. Too many things out of my control. Even worse now in some ways.

42 posted on 07/27/2011 10:05:06 AM PDT by sickoflibs (If you pay zero Federal income taxes, don't say you are paying your 'fair share')
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Turtlepower

Conservatives like CC&B. So do most Republicans. Problem is, the House GOP CC&B bill they passed is dead. Period. Wake up, newbie!


43 posted on 07/27/2011 10:05:52 AM PDT by Reagan Man ("In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Reagan Man

Finally, some reason on this site. Thank you, sir.

Signed, a fellow Reagan Republican.


44 posted on 07/27/2011 10:07:10 AM PDT by Deo et Patria
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: Reagan Man

ok great - let’s surrender everything then! That’s all the GOP is ever does is fold like a cheap tent....I understand they may not get everything from CC&B at this point, but why did they have to significantly differ from it? At this point, Reid’s proposal will cut more than Boehner’s...how much more compromise are we supposed to accept?


45 posted on 07/27/2011 10:14:14 AM PDT by Turtlepower
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: woofie

Screw Boner.

His “plan” is Obamunism Lite: overtax, overregulate, overspend, overpromise... and it will kill America just as surely as Obama will. The only difference is that Obama will drive the bus over the cliff within the next four years, whereas Boner’s will draw out the recession-to-depression-to-collapse cycle by a few more years.


46 posted on 07/27/2011 10:33:38 AM PDT by snowrip (Liberal? You are a socialist idiot with no rational argument.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: vbmoneyspender

I think I read somewhere it was $6B first year, $27B second year.


47 posted on 07/27/2011 10:37:36 AM PDT by snowrip (Liberal? You are a socialist idiot with no rational argument.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: snowrip

CBO is scoring it as $1 billion in the first year. On a percentage basis that is less than one tenth of 1 percent of the 1.2 trillion in ‘cuts’ Boehner is alleging his bill will cut.


48 posted on 07/27/2011 10:46:10 AM PDT by vbmoneyspender
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: vbmoneyspender

I think Boehner blew it. We should stand firm with cut and cap or let Obama default. If we default it will be because Obama did not prioritize interest and debt payments.


49 posted on 07/27/2011 10:50:52 AM PDT by RED SOUTH (Follow me on twitter @redsouth72)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: ZULU
We are playing a dangerous game of chess with an opponent with no scruples.

There is no danger. It is Y2K all over again.

50 posted on 07/27/2011 10:54:02 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-62 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson