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Are Jews Too Elitist To Accept Gwyneth Paltrow’s Jew-ish Kids?
Jewish Journal ^ | 7-27-11 | Ilana Angel

Posted on 07/27/2011 4:49:39 PM PDT by SJackson

Gwyneth Paltrow has, at one time or another, announced that she does not believe in religion, is simply spiritual, and is raising her kids Jewish. Perhaps she is a little confused about what she wants to do, or practice, but at the end of the day, does it even matter? I say yes it does.

The Jewish population is getting smaller. With inter-faith marriage, people opting to not have children at all, or simply stepping away from religion entirely, there are less and less Jews every year, so I figure if a woman wants to raise her kids Jewish, who am I to judge?

We need more Jews! Our faith dictates that our religion is passed on from mother to child, so by that criteria, Gwyneth Paltrow is not Jewish, so neither are her kids, so she cannot possibly raise them to be Jews. That is simply a ridiculous argument in any scenario.

Lance Armstrong’s mother was not a champion cyclist, but she raised one. Neil Armstrong’s parents never went to space, but they raised a son to walk on the moon. I have never won an Oscar, but I am raising a child who will be an award-winning actor and director one day.

I am Jewish by birth. My family has been Jewish, on both sides, for as far back as we have been able to trace, so does that qualify me to raise my son Jewish more than Gwyneth is to raise her children Jewish? Are Jews so elitist that we would tell her she can’t do it?

My son spent ten years in a private Jewish Day School and I had to Google half of the holidays they closed for because not only did I not know what the holidays were, but had never heard of them. I eat lobster and make my son cheeseburgers, so am I qualified to raise a Jew?

Paltrow is a big star, people listen to what she says, so if she can make it cool to be Jewish, I say rock on sister. Jews are cool baby. On behalf of my Jewish self, and my Jewish son, I say welcome. Do whatever you want. It’s an important thing to give your children faith.

To clarify, Apple will need to convert if she wants to marry my son, but no worries, you will have done all the legwork so it will just be a formality. In a world where Jews continue to struggle to be accepted, I welcome those who wants to take it on and say to you all, keep the faith.


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To: SJackson
It is not a question of elitism; it is a question of halacha. Pretty Gwyneth Paltrow is not really Jewish. Her mother, Blythe Danner, is a Quaker.

Maybe Gwyneth can convert and her kids can convert. That is what Dr. Laura did. And she also did it for her warrior son, Derek.

51 posted on 07/27/2011 6:12:53 PM PDT by Stepan12 (Palin & Bolton in 2012)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

A real narrow rule is the Law of Moses ~ he who is born of a Jew is a Jew.


52 posted on 07/27/2011 6:13:39 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Lysandru
Of course, Judaism is not monolithic either, is it?

If it ain't then I don't know what is....Let's see, there's G-d, Jahweh (and the various languages of that term), Lord. That's a whole bunch. I guess it is not monolithic after all.

53 posted on 07/27/2011 6:19:34 PM PDT by Rudder (The Main Stream Media is Our Enemy---get used to it.)
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To: TaraP
If your father is Jewish and your mother is a gentile, des that mean your kids are gentiles?

Yes

Gene Simmons from Kiss is a Jew, the mother of his kids is a non-jew, I believe she says (Shannon Tweed) she does not believe in religion, although I don’t think she is an Atheist, so the kids are gentiles???

Yes, as a matter of law they are gentiles. As a practical matter, the more exposure one has to Judaism the easier it would be to convert if that were ever desired. In the case of Gene Simmons, he was born in Israel and speaks Hebrew. If he had taught his kids Hebrew and raised them to know how to practice the religion and celebrate the holidays then it would not be very difficult for them to convert.

54 posted on 07/27/2011 6:20:31 PM PDT by Poison Pill
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To: muawiyah

Yep. And they were repeatedly warned not to intermarry with those who did not descend from the 12 tribes, not because of lineage but because they would be led astray from the true faith to the heathen gods of the region.


55 posted on 07/27/2011 6:22:22 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Islam is the religion of Satan and Mohammed was his minion.)
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To: TaraP
So is Gwyneth Paltrow a Quaker or a Gentile?

Unless she has converted, she is a gentile. Islam is passed down patrilineally (such as The Messiah who had a Muslim father), but Judaism is determined by the mother, matrilineally.

It was out of curiosity, I looked up Gwyneth's parents in Wikipedia. It is the matrilineal descent that determines the religion in Judaism.

56 posted on 07/27/2011 6:22:58 PM PDT by Stepan12 (Palin & Bolton in 2012)
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To: Rudder
If it ain't then I don't know what is....Let's see, there's G-d, Jahweh (and the various languages of that term), Lord. That's a whole bunch. I guess it is not monolithic after all.

You missed my point. I didn't say "not monotheistic." I said, "not monolithic"-- as in the idea that you have diffrent forms of Judaism. Christians are not monolithic either-- you have different flavors. Amongst Jews, you have Reform Jews, Conservatives, and Orthodox to name three main branches. I about fell out of my chair a few months ago when I watched a video with a female rabbi-- clearly she was not of the Orthodox branch.

57 posted on 07/27/2011 6:24:42 PM PDT by Lysandru
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To: Jack Black
Granted that wouldn't really cover the Sammy Davis Jr. case, but those are vanishingly rare.

Sammy converted.



58 posted on 07/27/2011 6:27:03 PM PDT by Stepan12 (Palin & Bolton in 2012)
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To: TaraP
What would you consider a child born to a Jewish mother and father, but when the child was born the parents had converted to the Christian faith?

Both parents and the child are Jewish as a matter of law and would remain so until death. As a practical matter, if they stopped practicing, the transmission of Judaism would die with them.

59 posted on 07/27/2011 6:30:05 PM PDT by Poison Pill
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To: SJackson

An agnostic trying to raise her kids Jewish is like a donkey trying to give birth to chickens. Like so many super rich Hollywood script memorizers, she had her last real thought in high school.


60 posted on 07/27/2011 6:34:54 PM PDT by pabianice (")
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To: Stepan12

I had always wondered if Islam was a faith of law being born into like Judaism, or if Muslims were born Arabs and converted to being Muslim....


61 posted on 07/27/2011 6:37:09 PM PDT by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: SJackson

Her children should not be shunned or punished because their mother is a ditzy leftist who’s using them as a publicity stunt.


62 posted on 07/27/2011 6:37:45 PM PDT by NativeNewYorker (Freepin' Jew Boy)
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To: Poison Pill

So you are saying the first human beings *Adam* were born as gentiles and everyone was a gentile by blood and genetics until Abraham?


63 posted on 07/27/2011 6:41:01 PM PDT by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: SJackson

Who cares what Jews think? No insult intended to Jews, But what % of the Jews currently alive give even a rats rear end to what Conservatives think?
From what I hear of them (on the radio, or TV) they have no use for us.
So again I ask, Who cares? And if you do , Why


64 posted on 07/27/2011 6:47:08 PM PDT by reefdiver ("Let His day's be few And another takes His office")
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To: Deb

I have a sneaking suspicion that Kabbala is involved.


65 posted on 07/27/2011 7:00:04 PM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: Stepan12
Maybe Gwyneth can convert and her kids can convert. That is what Dr. Laura did.

Exactly. And though more stressful, I suspect, the kids can without mom.

66 posted on 07/27/2011 7:04:11 PM PDT by SJackson (Normal people don't sit cross-legged on the floor and bang on drums, WI State Sen Glenn Grothman (R))
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To: Lysandru
OMG, I did read monolithic as montheistic! My apologies.

Re: the Rabinette, have you heard the story of Pope Joan?

67 posted on 07/27/2011 7:04:36 PM PDT by Rudder (The Main Stream Media is Our Enemy---get used to it.)
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To: NativeNewYorker
Her children should not be shunned or punished because their mother is a ditzy leftist who’s using them as a publicity stunt.

Yes, but good luck with that.

68 posted on 07/27/2011 7:08:16 PM PDT by SJackson (Normal people don't sit cross-legged on the floor and bang on drums, WI State Sen Glenn Grothman (R))
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To: AppyPappy
I have a sneaking suspicion that Kabbala is involved.

Haven't posted to you in a while, but as I recall your suspicions are often correct.

69 posted on 07/27/2011 7:09:39 PM PDT by SJackson (Normal people don't sit cross-legged on the floor and bang on drums, WI State Sen Glenn Grothman (R))
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To: SJackson

I can’t imagine the draw. Father was a complete d!ckh3ad. Dietary laws. Weird holidays that center on religion. It’s hard to be a converted partial Jew.

When my brother moved to LA, he tried to break into show business. He looked Jewish. I told him to convert but he said “They’ll know”. It’s not the hook. It’s the Jewish mother.


70 posted on 07/27/2011 7:15:43 PM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: Poison Pill

How dare she nominate herself as chosen.... I guess muzzies are not the only ones with a dhimmi class, like hindus with untouchables and so forth. The whole pecking order or religion, groups, races, two guys at a bar, does make the whole evolution thing sound plausible at times.


71 posted on 07/27/2011 7:16:10 PM PDT by King Moonracer (Bad lighting and cheap fabric, that's how you sell clothing.....)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

Think of the Jewish people as a family. A convert is adopted into the family with all of the rights and responsibilities.

A convert is a true Jew.

Just ask Ruth...


72 posted on 07/27/2011 7:40:45 PM PDT by Marie (I agree with everything that Rick Perry is saying. I just wish that *he* did. (NO to Bush II))
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To: King Moonracer
I guess muzzies are not the only ones with a dhimmi class, like hindus with untouchables...

You lost me

73 posted on 07/27/2011 7:46:25 PM PDT by Poison Pill
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To: Marie

To be fair, Ruth married into the family. Twice. And to be entirely truthful, Jews have always looked down their noses at converts.


74 posted on 07/27/2011 7:52:54 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Islam is the religion of Satan and Mohammed was his minion.)
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To: Poison Pill

Every group has their core segment that is in an adversarial relationship with other group segments and with everyone else outside the group, AKA the unworthy non-entities. Elitist, racist, bigoted, nationalist.....it is all the same pack animal hatred/fear of those outside the group, and of those not deemed worthy to join. Not allowed to practice Judaism because of lacking a genetic connection is a humbug.


75 posted on 07/27/2011 7:58:46 PM PDT by King Moonracer (Bad lighting and cheap fabric, that's how you sell clothing.....)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

I was taken aside at my synagogue and told to tell no one that I was a convert. If someone asked if I was a convert, I was to turn my back on them and to ignore them.

It is considered rude to ask. Rude to discuss it. Converts are Jews. Period.

Yes, there is a bias, but most Jews don’t have the prejudice. Converts are protected from the ignorant few.

Ruth was considered a Jew before she married a Jew. (Or she would’ve not been allowed to marry a Jew in the first place.) Her children and grandchildren were considered full-Jews.

If they weren’t, we wouldn’t have had King David. He never have been allowed to become king if people considered his bloodline tainted.


76 posted on 07/27/2011 8:15:09 PM PDT by Marie (I agree with everything that Rick Perry is saying. I just wish that *he* did. (NO to Bush II))
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To: King Moonracer
Every group has their core segment that is in an adversarial relationship with other group segments

Gwyneth Paltrow and her children aren't Jewish, segment or otherwise. They are no more a segment of Judaism than they are a segment of Mormonism.

If she wants to convert she can do so anytime she wants. But she doesn't want to convert, she wants to pose.

77 posted on 07/27/2011 8:22:40 PM PDT by Poison Pill
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To: Marie
Ruth was considered a Jew before she married a Jew.

I am not sure I agree with this statement. Naomi's family left Bethlehem and moved to Moab to escape the famine. Her son took Ruth, a Moabite, as his wife. Then her husband died. And according to the Law of Moses, some male relative is supposed to take her as his wife and support her.

It is also debatable that Naomi tried to talk her into staying in Moab so that she would not be "burdened" with a foreigner daughter-in-law. Boaz also goes so far to call her "Ruth the Moabitess".

Regardless, her children were considered Israelites or specifically, descendants of Judah. It is an interesting conversation, none the less.

78 posted on 07/27/2011 8:43:39 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Islam is the religion of Satan and Mohammed was his minion.)
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To: Lysandru
Just curious...but if one has no clearly defined faith oneself--why choose Judaism? What is it about Judaism that is appealing to one with no faith of their own?

The Khazars did, at the direction of their khan, who listened carefully of expositions of Christianity, Islam, and Judaism, and chose the latter for his people -- and they all proselytized en masse.

79 posted on 07/27/2011 9:10:50 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus (Concealed carry is a pro-life position.)
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To: Ann Archy
So, why would Jews NOT accept her children as Jews??

A Jew is someone born of a Jewish mother, or who converted. Paltrow's mother wasn't Jewish, and Paltrow never converted. Ergo, Paltrow's not a Jew. Paltrow has, to my knowledge, not indicated that she will convert, or that she will convert her children. So her children aren't Jews either.

The equivalent would be someone born in Mexico, to Mexican parents, whose parents raise him with American culture and give him civics lessons in American history. Such a person might know a lot about America. But, without naturalizing, he wouldn't be an American.

80 posted on 07/27/2011 9:24:32 PM PDT by ChicagoHebrew (.)
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To: Marie
Ruth was considered a Jew before she married a Jew. (Or she would’ve not been allowed to marry a Jew in the first place.)

That sounds like the story of Phineas, as in, "Phineas priest" (q.v.); they take their name from him.

81 posted on 07/27/2011 9:29:12 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus (Concealed carry is a pro-life position.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
But to be a Jew, you must be from the line of Judah. Others are followers of the Jewish faith.

You are wrong. The term "Jew" has been universally applied to all Israel since the days of Ezra. Ask any Cohen or Levi today (both are from the Tribe of Levi, not Judah). They'll identify as Jews, and every Jew on the planet would recognize them as such. Heck, consult your Christian Bible. Paul was from the Tribe of Benjamin. But he clearly identifies as a Jew.

82 posted on 07/27/2011 9:29:19 PM PDT by ChicagoHebrew (.)
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To: TaraP
What would you consider a child born to a Jewish mother and father, but when the child was born the parents had converted to the Christian faith?

Under Jewish law, a Jew can never forsake his or her obligations to keep the Law of Moses. So a Jew who becomes an apostate is just a bad Jew, not a non-Jew. The child of a bad female Jew is a Jew.

83 posted on 07/27/2011 9:34:40 PM PDT by ChicagoHebrew (.)
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To: ChicagoHebrew
Paul was from the Tribe of Benjamin.

I once asked a Jewish acquaintance if there were any identifiable remnants left today of the Tribe of Dan -- there is some reason to believe that they were Danuna (Egyptian name for them, the Phoenicians called them dynnm), identifiable with the Greek Danawoi, or "Danaans", who were the actual people who brought the Greek language from the steppes of Russia to the land of Hellas. Moreover, out on the steppe, they may have been the enemy people identified by the Vedic hymns as the Danawo.

If so, then these Danaans are mentioned in the Vedas, are the authors of Greek civilization and are prime actors in the Iliad and Odyssey, had their images and their names carved in the Ramessid monuments of Egypt, and came at last to the Bible as the Tribe of Dan -- certainly the most spectacularly rich patrimony of any identifiable people on earth.

84 posted on 07/27/2011 9:39:24 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus (Concealed carry is a pro-life position.)
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To: lentulusgracchus
I once asked a Jewish acquaintance if there were any identifiable remnants left today of the Tribe of Dan.

The answer is "yes," but very few. It is a myth that 10 tribes disappeared completely. The Bible is pretty clear that four tribes survived largely intact (Judah, Benjamin, Levi and Shimon), and that refugees from the other tribes flooded the Kingdom of Judah after Israel got overrun. And Assyrian records make clear that they deported only about 27,000 people -- mostly the nobility and young strong men.

Over time, however, tribal identifications almost entirely got lost, and nearly everyone started identifying themselves as Jewish, thanks to Judah's size and wealth. You see a similar phenomenon today in various Jewish communities. In Brooklyn, for example, the big Sephardic Jewish community largely self-identifies as "Syrian," even though many of the people who call themselves "Syrians" actually have their roots in Egypt, Lebanon, and Iraq.

A small handful of families, however, diligently preserved oral traditions of tribal affiliations. I once knew an Iraqi Jew, for instance, who's mother's maiden name was "Dani." Her family had a tradition of being from the Tribe of Dan.

85 posted on 07/27/2011 9:55:32 PM PDT by ChicagoHebrew (.)
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To: lentulusgracchus

I should also add that the Ethiopian community identifies itself as the Tribe of Dan, and that some prominent Rabbis, such as Ovadia Yosef, fervently back that claim. I’m more skeptical. I think the Ethiopians have their origin almost entirely from converts, as the genetic evidence supports, albeit converts from a very, very long time ago.


86 posted on 07/27/2011 9:58:24 PM PDT by ChicagoHebrew (.)
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To: ChicagoHebrew
I once knew an Iraqi Jew, for instance, who's mother's maiden name was "Dani." Her family had a tradition of being from the Tribe of Dan.

Then she is the heiress of a tradition of which I stand in special awe, even though she may not be aware of it herself. Her people are very, very special. And living in Iraq, it turns out they weren't all that terribly far from the countryside of their origins, out on the steppes north and northeast of the Caspian Sea.

Before that, of course, they were part of the Proto-Indo-European-speaking Yamnaya or Kurgan Culture, 4300 years ago, and before that, of the Sredny Stog culture which appeared on the shores of the Black Sea, somewhere around the outfall of the River Bug, 7400 years ago, or just after the Black Sea basin filled up. (They might have been living down in the basin before that, who knows?)

87 posted on 07/27/2011 10:23:29 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus (Concealed carry is a pro-life position.)
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To: liege

Yep, he converted. Went though the whole deal and didn’t back out.


88 posted on 07/28/2011 1:11:19 AM PDT by gogogodzilla (Live free or die!)
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To: TaraP

Yep. Until Abraham, G-d had made no everlasting convenant to anyone specific inhabiting the earth.


89 posted on 07/28/2011 1:18:41 AM PDT by gogogodzilla (Live free or die!)
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To: JerseyHighlander

I thought Divine had died.


90 posted on 07/28/2011 7:56:53 AM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (~"This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Amber Lamps !"~~)
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To: Jack Black

“if either parent is Jewish you are considered 1/2 Jewish.”

Ah, the “Jewish according to Hitler” test.


91 posted on 07/28/2011 7:57:37 AM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

“But to be a Jew, you must be from the line of Judah. Others are followers of the Jewish faith.”

So me, a lowly Cohen of the Tribe of Levi, is not Jewish?

Sorry, you may have a point in the original technical sense of the word, but for 2500 years or so, that’s a distinction without a difference.


92 posted on 07/28/2011 8:01:38 AM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

“And to be entirely truthful, Jews have always looked down their noses at converts.”

Abraham and Sarah were converts, so no.

It is a specific mitzvah to accept and treat Jews-by-choice (real ones, with the mikvah and everything) the same as every born Jews.

A convert’s soul was present at Mt. Sinai and accepted the covenent, just like mine.


93 posted on 07/28/2011 8:04:27 AM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: ChicagoHebrew

SO then actually what you are saying is that people are born as Jews and Gentiles even if your Mother is a Muslim and Father is a Jew you are still born a *Gentile*?

Judaism I suppose is the only religion you can be born into and become that automatically upon your birth from your birth mother...

To be a Christian you have to make a decision all on your own to convert to the gospel of Jesus Christ..

Islam I am un-sure if they convert or are forced automatically by there Muslim parents..

On thing that is interesting in the Book of Revelation is it says” The temple in Israel will be over-run by the gentiles which could be Arabs, Atheists or Pagans....


94 posted on 07/28/2011 8:50:43 AM PDT by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: Jewbacca

Sorry, I am not buying the Abraham was a “convert” story.


95 posted on 07/28/2011 9:59:39 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Islam is the religion of Satan and Mohammed was his minion.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

“Sorry, I am not buying the Abraham was a “convert” story.”

So you are not buying the Bible/Torah?

OK. Suit yourself.


96 posted on 07/28/2011 11:58:35 AM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: SJackson
...but I believe Gwyneth is into Hollywood Kaballah. Red strings, magic water, not Judaism, but I suspect that's a factor.

What's with the red stings?

97 posted on 07/28/2011 12:21:55 PM PDT by GOPJ (Honk if I'm paying for your car, your mortgage, and your big, fat Greek bailout - mewzilla)
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To: GOPJ

Roite bindele. It’s B.S. and no legitimate source.

That said, it’s a an OLD tradition. My great-great grandmother used to wear one on her left hand. Some B.S. regarding the evil eye.

Peasant stuff. Witchcraft posing as Judaism.


98 posted on 07/28/2011 12:36:05 PM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: GOPJ
Wards off the evil eye. You can buy one for only $19.50, marked down from $26.00 at the Kabbalah Centre Store if you're interested.
99 posted on 07/28/2011 1:06:28 PM PDT by SJackson (Normal people don't sit cross-legged on the floor and bang on drums, WI State Sen Glenn Grothman (R))
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To: SJackson

Evil eye? I’ll google that one... Thanks for sharing.


100 posted on 07/28/2011 2:47:34 PM PDT by GOPJ (Honk if I'm paying for your car, your mortgage, and your big, fat Greek bailout - mewzilla)
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