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Boehner rewrites his bill, Obama pleads for pact
http://www.marinij.com ^ | July 29, 2011

Posted on 07/29/2011 8:23:26 AM PDT by Kackikat

"WASHINGTON—Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid served notice Friday that he's pushing ahead with his debt-limit bill as House Speaker John Boehner's rival measure languished in limbo, further escalating a wrenching political standoff that has heightened fears of a market-rattling government default. "This is likely our last chance to save this nation from default," Reid declared glumly on the Senate floor, as a Tuesday's deadline drew closer.

Reid's move came with Boehner's bill still in wait of a vote and a bitter standoff between GOP leaders and their conservative rank and file. Demoralized House Republicans were striving for a third straight day to pass the Boehner bill, even though it had virtually no chance of surviving the Senate."

(Excerpt) Read more at marinij.com ...


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: constitution; debtcrisis; socialsecurity
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Last Night, when Boehner vote was postponed, not cancelled, Harry REID and Democrat Senate decided to INTRODUCE, AND pass their own bill, that raises debt limit, WHICH was a misuse of taxes, thereby giving Obama what he wants.

PRESIDENT OBAMA AND TREASURY SECRETARY GEITHNER HAVE BOTH SAID SENIORS/DISABLED/VETERANS AND OTHERS WOULD BE IN DANGER OF NOT GETTING PAID IF DEBT CEILING IS NOT RAISED VIA CONGRESS. THAT MAKES THE DEBT CEILING BILL A "FINANCIAL BILL THAT MUST START IN THE HOUSE", however, REID TABLED THE HOUSE BILL, WITHOUT A VOTE IN SENTATE...THEREBY THE CONSTITUTION IS CLEAR: (Wikipedia):

The Committee of Ways and Means is the chief tax-writing committee of the United States House of Representatives. Members of the Ways and Means Committee are not allowed to serve on any other House Committees unless they apply for a waiver from their party's congressional leadership. The Committee has jurisdiction over all taxation, tariffs and other revenue-raising measures, as well as a number of other programs including:

Social Security Unemployment benefits Medicare Enforcement of child support laws Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, a federal welfare program Foster care and adoption programs The U.S. Constitution requires that all bills regarding taxation must originate in the House of Representatives. Since House procedure is that all bills regarding taxation must go through this committee, the committee is very influential, as is its Senate counterpart, the U.S. Senate Committee on Finance . NOW, THE DEBT CEILING IS ALL ABOUT HOW OUR "TAXES" are being spent, and turned into debt, correct? So how does REID AND THE SENATE GET TO START A BILL REGARDING THE DEBT LIMIT, WHEN THEY DID NOT TAKE A VOTE ON THE CAP, CUT AND BALANCE BILL FROM THE HOUSE?

Speaker Boehner and the GOP are still stating they will pass a bill today, and there is still several days left, before the deadline....I think REID is violating the Constitition, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

1 posted on 07/29/2011 8:23:30 AM PDT by Kackikat
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To: Kackikat

I guess “originate in” is just some old dead white guys way of saying whatever.


2 posted on 07/29/2011 8:26:32 AM PDT by dblshot (Insanity: electing the same people over and over and expecting different results.)
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To: Kackikat

No, he does not. But he can amend the bill the House sent.


3 posted on 07/29/2011 8:26:46 AM PDT by cotton1706
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To: Kackikat
WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Um ... I think your caps lock key is broken.

I think you've had too much caffeine.

I think this is NOT breaking news (especially in ALL CAPS!)

4 posted on 07/29/2011 8:27:31 AM PDT by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free)
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To: Kackikat

Read THIS!!!
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/fights-over-debt-limit-have-long-history-2011-07-28?link=mw_home_kiosk


5 posted on 07/29/2011 8:27:32 AM PDT by SierraWasp (I'm done being disappointed by "He/She is the only one who can win" and being embarrassed later!!!)
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To: Kackikat

He has all the authority boner will give him. All boner has to do is say “Spending bills originate in the house. So, Mr Reid, I suggest you stop wasting your members’ time and get back to ratifying treaties.” But he won’t do it.


6 posted on 07/29/2011 8:28:13 AM PDT by Terry Mross (I will only vote for a SECOND party.)
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To: Kackikat
A Democrat in today's American can do anything they want.

Neither law, nor custom, nor procedure, nor the "watchdog" media, nor even (it seems) the courts will stop them.

And so far, not an armed populace...

7 posted on 07/29/2011 8:28:54 AM PDT by grobdriver (Proud Member, Party Of No! No Socialism - No Fascism - Nobama - No Way!)
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To: Kackikat

If they can finesse/ignore the “natural born” provision of Article II, they can easily ignore this one! I also believe it’s been done before (under Clinton).


8 posted on 07/29/2011 8:29:08 AM PDT by Tallguy (You can safely ignore anything that precedes the word "But"...)
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To: cotton1706

What bill the House sent? You mean the one that couldn’t even get voted on last night???


9 posted on 07/29/2011 8:29:22 AM PDT by SierraWasp (I'm done being disappointed by "He/She is the only one who can win" and being embarrassed later!!!)
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To: Kackikat

I was thinking just earlier this morning after I heard about Reid’s plan that the House should pull a tit-for-tat, and declare it dead on arrival... they should also send a letter to the senate signed by all republicans stating just what you said... The senate has NO AUTHORITY to originate financial legislation.

The senate should be FORCED to take up and debate Cut Cap and Balance. PERIOD!!!!!


10 posted on 07/29/2011 8:29:24 AM PDT by Safrguns
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To: Kackikat
Question is ... When did the democRATS ever consider the Constitution a valid document. The party of Thomas Jefferson did. Thomas, Thomas, where for art thou Thomas?
11 posted on 07/29/2011 8:30:41 AM PDT by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: Tallguy

Try Eisenhour!!! See link just above...


12 posted on 07/29/2011 8:30:41 AM PDT by SierraWasp (I'm done being disappointed by "He/She is the only one who can win" and being embarrassed later!!!)
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To: Kackikat

He can just take any bill the House has sent him this year on any subject and strip it out and use it as a shell. I don’t know when this started but it has been going on for a long time. Not saying I like it just that this is how it has been done.


13 posted on 07/29/2011 8:33:06 AM PDT by Conservative Actuary
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To: SierraWasp

This statement stands out: “What’s more, the Constitution entrusts the House with primary control over the federal purse strings. Some warn against shifting more power to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.”

I think when Reid refused to bring the first bill from the House to the Senate for a vote, that he ruined any chances of being able to INTRODUCE a bill raising the Debt Ceiling. It may be a technicality, but cases have been won on less.


14 posted on 07/29/2011 8:33:32 AM PDT by Kackikat
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To: Kackikat
How very convenient! The Reid plan passes the Senate the same day of the “default” and House has to immediately vote on it. So Conservatives and the Republicans in the House won't be able to find out whats in it or have a chance to oppose it, but will be pressured to pass it with a gun to their head in the form of default. This is the financial bailout, and Stimulus all over again. A manufactured crisis, with a fake deadline created by the president to force through his agenda. Nothing has changed since November, we just replaced Nancy Pelosi with “Crying Game” Boehner (and quite frankly Pelosi was less emotional and had a bigger pair than Boehner). Maybe Boehner will come out and tell us that the House has to vote for the debt increase so we can find out whats in it. Then his transformation into Nancy Pelosi will be complete. If they pull this, the tea party needs to run third party candidates against every Republican in 2012 including Boehner and consequences be d@mned.
15 posted on 07/29/2011 8:36:32 AM PDT by apillar
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To: Servant of the Cross

Well, dense, the caps are about what is important to the Constitution, as they made it about Social Security payments, etc., making it about social security taxes, which are contributions for senior checks.

Sheesh...God is not pleased with those who always criticized others, that’s why the Israelites did NOT enter the promise land...MURMERING AND COMPLAINING..READ IT. Yes, for emphasis I capitalized it!


16 posted on 07/29/2011 8:36:58 AM PDT by Kackikat
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To: Kackikat
</caps lock>Does Reid have authority to start a bill, in the Senate regarding (our taxes misued) the Debt Limit?

He can do exactly the same thing he did for the ObamaCare bill: Take an existing House passed bill that includes a funding component, and amend it by striking every single word in the bill and replacing it with the desired legislation.

17 posted on 07/29/2011 8:39:28 AM PDT by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: apillar

I believe that Boehner post poned the vote, to put the cut, cap and balance, into this bill. He met with all the tea partiers yesterday, and to get their vote, it would have to have the ‘balance budget amendment’ in it.
I think the House will revamp the bill, and send it to the ?Senate tonight or tomorrow...but Reid is jumping the gun, and IMHO he is violating the Constitution. Why did he table the House bill, and NOT take a vote in Senate, cause then he could have amended it and sent it back....that gives me pause.


18 posted on 07/29/2011 8:40:21 AM PDT by Kackikat
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks Kackikat.
Reid served notice Friday that he's pushing ahead with his debt-limit bill as House Speaker John Boehner's rival measure languished in limbo
Partisan media shill alert -- Reid killed the Boehner bill.


19 posted on 07/29/2011 8:40:29 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Yes, as a matter of fact, it is that time again -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SierraWasp

That would be the Cut, Cap and Balanced Budget (CCB) bill the house sent to the Senate last week. Which Reid and Dems Tabled - not allowing a vote because it may have had a chance of passing. The House Repubs just need to stop trying to get along with the Dem Senators and tell them you have our bill on the Table - we are going home see, see ya!


20 posted on 07/29/2011 8:41:44 AM PDT by Red_Devil 232 (VietVet - USMC All Ready On The Right? All Ready On The Left? All Ready On The Firing Line!)
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To: Kackikat

Reid can take *any* House bill that’s been sent over, strip entirely of its present language, and copy-n-paste his own bill into it. That’s what he did with ObamaCare.


21 posted on 07/29/2011 8:43:29 AM PDT by kevao
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To: SierraWasp

No, last week Boehner/House sent the “Cut, Cap, and Balance the Budget bill passed in the House to the Senate, and Reid tabled it...meaning he would NOT even bring it to Senate Floor for a vote. Therefore, since it was tabled, instead of defeated, it makes REID, IMHO, unable to INTRODUCE a bill regarding THE DEBT LIMIT (debt due to a misuse of our taxes), and because Obama/Geithner said it affected Social Security payments,,,,then it would have to originate in the House of Representatives, right?


22 posted on 07/29/2011 8:43:34 AM PDT by Kackikat
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To: Safrguns

Agreed, and IF ANYONE HAS LIST OF HOUSE EMAIL OR TWITTER ADDRESSES, lets tell them to do so.


23 posted on 07/29/2011 8:44:49 AM PDT by Kackikat
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To: Yo-Yo

Yes, but it has to be a bill defeated by a Senate Vote, and REID tabled the House bill on Cut, Cap and Balance, so how does he introduce a NEW Bill?


24 posted on 07/29/2011 8:46:57 AM PDT by Kackikat
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To: SunkenCiv

Exactly, and why he did not let Senate vote on it makes him unable to introduce a NEW BILL regarding, the misuse of our taxes in order to raise the Debt Ceiling.


25 posted on 07/29/2011 8:48:43 AM PDT by Kackikat
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To: SierraWasp

The House sent Cut, Cap and Balance last week. So the House has acted first. He would have to amend that. He can’t just come up with a bill on his own. What he’ll do is amend it to gut it, “to be replaced with” and then add his own amendment.


26 posted on 07/29/2011 8:49:03 AM PDT by cotton1706
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To: dblshot

lol


27 posted on 07/29/2011 8:50:06 AM PDT by Kackikat
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To: Kackikat
He met with all the tea partiers yesterday, and to get their vote, it would have to have the ‘balance budget amendment’ in it.

Hmmm, where was that meeting? I don't know any tea partiers that were there. Certainly not all.

If he truly met with the massive number of Tea Party Movement people the outcome would have been signifintely different.

28 posted on 07/29/2011 8:50:38 AM PDT by Syncro (Sarah Palin, the unofficial Tea Party candidate for president--Virtual Jerusalem)
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To: Kackikat

Better watch out for the “perfection police!” (grin)


29 posted on 07/29/2011 8:50:38 AM PDT by SierraWasp (I'm done being disappointed by "He/She is the only one who can win" and being embarrassed later!!!)
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To: Safrguns

I can’t disagree with you.

It won’t happen. The Senate has gone rogue. If this happens...our government is/has fully gone rogue and it is time to do more than throw the bums out.

1. Vicious and solitary.
2. Large, destructive, and anomalous or unpredictable: a rogue wave; a rogue tornado.
3. Operating outside normal or desirable controls:


30 posted on 07/29/2011 8:51:52 AM PDT by EBH ( God Humbles Nations, Leaders, and Peoples before He uses them for His Purpose)
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To: Kackikat
In the case of the Health Care Ripoff Bill, Reid took a minor money bill that the house had passed earlier and as I said amended it by striking everything but the H.R. bill number. The senate is allowed to offer amendments to a House passed bill, then return it to the House for a second vote on the amendments. There is no law saying how much or how little can be amended.

I'm sorry I can't provide the specifics, but I wondered the same thing back then, how could the Senate originate a money bill, and that was the answer given to me by several FReepers at the time. Even had the original and amended bills linked at one time.

31 posted on 07/29/2011 8:59:03 AM PDT by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: Kackikat

Be forewarned, the title police will nail you for making up your own title!


32 posted on 07/29/2011 9:00:39 AM PDT by NCDragon (If you can't stand behind the troops, try standing in front of them!)
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To: kevao
Reid can take *any* House bill that’s been sent over, strip entirely of its present language, and copy-n-paste his own bill into it. That’s what he did with ObamaCare.

But then it has to come back to the house for approval or to a joint committee for reconciliation. Right?

33 posted on 07/29/2011 9:01:45 AM PDT by oldbrowser (They're socialists don't call them liberals)
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To: apillar
This has been the plan all along and the media will drool whatever it can just like Pavlov's dog.

Boehner had better choose sides soon or we are toast.

34 posted on 07/29/2011 9:02:27 AM PDT by John 3_19-21
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To: dblshot
I'm pretty sure Dole got away with it once, during the Reagan years.

Always bothered me, along with the FAA raising a tax in anticipation of
the law allowing it, around the same time.

35 posted on 07/29/2011 9:05:18 AM PDT by Calvin Locke
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To: Kackikat

Unless a bill specifically raises taxes or appropriates spending, it does not have to originate in the House. Even the bill being used for the Boehner plan originated in the Senate - it is Senate Bill 627, amended to include the language of the Boehner Plan using a technoque often called “gut and amend”.

Even if he wanted to include taxes and new spending, Reid could use the “gut and amend” process to insert his bill into a bill that “originated” in the House.


36 posted on 07/29/2011 9:05:18 AM PDT by CA Conservative
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To: CA Conservative

Reid: “Laws...we don’t need to stinkin’ laws.”


37 posted on 07/29/2011 9:07:43 AM PDT by Moby Grape (Formerly Impeach the Boy...name change necessary after the Marxist won)
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To: Kackikat
Yes, but it has to be a bill defeated by a Senate Vote, and REID tabled the House bill on Cut, Cap and Balance, so how does he introduce a NEW Bill?

I did a bit more research, and found it. H.R.3590 was originally titled "Service Members Home Ownership Tax Act of 2009" and was "amended" by the Senate to become "Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act."

Clicking on the H.R.3590 link will take you to the Thomas.gov history of the bill.

Reid can do the same thing to "originate" a budget bill in the Senate.

38 posted on 07/29/2011 9:13:44 AM PDT by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: Kackikat

Section. 7.

Clause 1: All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.

As I understand it, the Reid bill does not raise taxes/revenue. Its just phantom spending cuts/gimmicks and an increase in the debt ceiling, so I don’t see why they can’t originate such a bill in the Senate.


39 posted on 07/29/2011 9:31:01 AM PDT by Tatze (I reject your reality and substitute my own!)
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To: dblshot

Yes, he can initiate this bill in the senate. The constitutional prohibition is against bills that initiate new revenue.

Passing a bill that DOESN’T change existing law doesn’t count, even if that existing law allows tax cuts to expire.

BTW, the Boehner “bill” is actually an amended Senate bill. The reason for this is because, as a Senate bill, it didn’t “originate in the house”. Therefore, the Senate can’t amend it to add new taxes.

It’s a clever little trick that nobody seems to be talking about.


40 posted on 07/29/2011 9:42:09 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Syncro
My CongressMAN, Tom McClintock, opposed Boehner's latest bill offering.

I have to agree with Rush that I don't ever want to hear another lecture from liberals about "civility" with POLITICO.com and others calling Tea Partiers "terrorists" coupled with all of Schumer's nasty, ugly commentaries!!!

Laura Ingram, however, is still supporting Congressman West and Speaker Boehner!!!

41 posted on 07/29/2011 10:41:14 AM PDT by SierraWasp (I'm done being disappointed by "He/She is the only one who can win" and being embarrassed later!!!)
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To: SierraWasp

Yup, the real nasty hate filled rethoric comes from the left, but they continue to project it on to the American Citizens and any and all Conservatives.

They especially dislike the Tea Party Movement as it is undermining their monetary kingdoms and power.

I saw Laura Ingrahmam tell people to vote for the lame cop out bill and was very dissapointed to say the least

Does she have to do that to keep her job with that jerk bill o”reilly???


42 posted on 07/29/2011 11:17:33 AM PDT by Syncro (Sarah Palin, the unofficial Tea Party candidate for president--Virtual Jerusalem)
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To: Calvin Locke

Well I reckon Dole is as close to a dead white guy as anyone still standing could be.


43 posted on 07/29/2011 11:27:46 AM PDT by dblshot (Insanity: electing the same people over and over and expecting different results.)
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To: CharlesWayneCT

It’s a shell game and we’re even letting the hustlers pick the shell for us.


44 posted on 07/29/2011 11:29:50 AM PDT by dblshot (Insanity: electing the same people over and over and expecting different results.)
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45 posted on 07/29/2011 12:06:45 PM PDT by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list.)
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To: SierraWasp

Yes, I hear from them occasionally, lol.


46 posted on 07/29/2011 12:44:30 PM PDT by Kackikat
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To: Tatze

“but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.”

Yes, but Reid’s bill does NOT have an Amendment...Boehner’s had Cut, Cap and Balance, however it was not brought to the floor, so REID can’t use his bill to present anything. In fact, it would amount to a brand new piece of legislation, if they use anything that passed, which is NOT part of the Debt Limit being raised legislation.

Of course, when has this group of criminals followed the rules?


47 posted on 07/29/2011 12:51:55 PM PDT by Kackikat
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To: kevao

Where is that in Constitution? or Amendments?


48 posted on 07/29/2011 12:53:08 PM PDT by Kackikat
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To: Tatze

They are spending tax payers dollars, when they raise the debt limit, so it is a bill regarding taxes, no matter what is in it!


49 posted on 07/29/2011 1:05:38 PM PDT by Kackikat
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To: Kackikat
Where is that in Constitution?

The Origination Clause (Article I, section 7)

50 posted on 07/29/2011 1:11:35 PM PDT by kevao
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