Posted on 07/30/2011 9:55:01 PM PDT by Dominic01
What's your opinion about teaching the theory of evolution in public schools?
Thank you for participating in our poll. Here are the results so far:
Evolution should be taught in public schools. 39% Evolution should be taught along with creationism. 33% Creationism should be taught, not evolution. 24% I don't know.
ChristianAnswers.Net
A growing number of scientists believe that geological evidence indicates our world has undergone a catastrophic flood. This is causing them to question whether or not the biblical account of Noah’s ark could be true. Many people are rereading the Biblical description of the Ark to ascertain the feasibility of such a vessel to fulfill its designated purpose in light of present day knowledge of both zoology and our present day knowledge of shipbuilding.
How big was Noah’s Ark?
“And God said unto Noah… Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt though make in the ark, and thou shalt pitch it within and without with pitch. And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of… the length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits. A window shalt thou make in the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side therof; with lower, second, and third stories shalt thou make it.” (Gen. 6:14-16)
A cubit is the distance between an adult’s elbow and tip of the finger, no less than 18-inches [45.72 centimeters]. (Scene from The World that Perished.)
Most Hebrew scholars believe the cubit to have been no less than 18 inches long [45.72 centimeters]. This means that the ark would have been at least 450 feet long [137.16 meters], 75 feet wide [22.86 meters] and 45 feet high [13.716000000000001 meters]. Noah’s Ark was said to have been the largest sea-going vessel ever built until the late nineteenth century when giant metal ships were first constructed. Its length to width ratio of six to one provided excellent stability on the high seas. In fact, modern shipbuilders say it would have been almost impossible to turn over. In every way, it was admirably suited for riding out the tremendous storms in the year of the flood.
Was the ark big enough to hold the number of animals required?
The total available floor space on the ark would have been over 100,000 square feet, which would be more floor space than in 20 standard-sized basketball courts.
The total cubic volume would have been 1,518,000 cubic feet [462,686.4 cubic meters] —that would be equal to the capacity of 569 modern railroad stock cars.
Now comes the question, how many land dwelling air breathing animals would have had to be taken aboard the ark to survive the flood?
According to Ernest Mayr, America’s leading taxonomist, there are over 1 million species of animals in the world.
God only provided the Ark for the protection of humans and land-dwelling, air-breathing creatures. A huge number of animals would not need to be taken aboard the Ark because they are water dwellers. Representatives would be expected to survive the catastrophe. With God’s protection against extinction during the Deluge, survival would have been assured.
However, the vast majority of these are capable of surviving in water and would not need to be brought aboard the ark. Noah need make no provision for the 21,000 species of fish or the 1,700 tunicates (marine chordates like sea squirts) found throughout the seas of the world, or the 600 echinoderms including star fish and sea urchins, or the 107,000 mollusks such as mussels, clams and oysters, or the 10,000 coelenterates like corals and sea anemones, jelly fish and hydroids or the 5,000 species of sponges, or the 30,000 protozoans, the microscopic single-celled creatures.
In addition, some of the mammals are aquatic. For example, the whales, seals and porpoises. The amphibians need not all have been included, nor all the reptiles, such as sea turtles, and alligators. Moreover, a large number of the arthropods numbering 838,000 species, such as lobsters, shrimp, crabs and water fleas and barnacles are marine creatures. And the insect species among arthropoda are usually very small. Also, many of the 35,000 species of worms as well as many of the insects could have survived outside the Ark.
How many animals needed to be brought aboard?
Doctors Morris and Whitcomb in their classic book,The Genesis Flood state that no more than 35,000 individual animals needed to go on the ark. In his well documented book, Noah’s Ark: A Feasibility Study, John Woodmorappe suggests that far fewer animals would have been transported upon the ark. By pointing out that the word “specie” is not equivalent to the “created kinds” of the Genesis account, Woodmorappe credibly demonstrates that as few as 2,000 animals may have been required on the ark. To pad this number for error, he continues his study by showing that the ark could easily accommodate 16,000 animals.)
But, let’s be generous and add on a reasonable number to include extinct animals. Then add on some more to satisfy even the most skeptical. Let’s assume 50,000 animals, far more animals than required, were on board the ark, and these need not have been the largest or even adult specimens.
Remember there are really only a few very large animals, such as the dinosaur or the elephant, and these could be represented by young ones. Assuming the average animal to be about the size of a sheep and using a railroad car for comparison, we note that the average double-deck stock car can accommodate 240 sheep. Thus, three trains hauling 69 cars each would have ample space to carry the 50,000 animals, filling only 37% of the ark. This would leave an additional 361 cars or enough to make 5 trains of 72 cars each to carry all of the food and baggage plus Noah’s family of eight people. The Ark had plenty of space.
The bigger problem would have been the construction of the Ark. But the Bible indicates that Noah did this under Divine guidance and there is no reason to believe he did not hire additional workmen.
How were the animals gathered?
Another enormous problem some have posed is the problem of gathering specimens of each kind of air-breathing land animal and bringing them aboard the Ark. However, the Genesis account indicates that God gathered the animals and brought them to Noah inside the ark two by two. Some have suggested this may have involved the origin of animal migratory instincts or, at least, an intensification of it. We also know that most animals possess the ability to sense danger and to move to a place of safety.
How could Noah’s family take care of all those animals?
Once aboard, many have suggested that Noah’s problems really began, with only 8 people to feed and water, to provide fresh air and sanitation for the huge menagerie of animals for a total of 371 days. However, a number of scientists have suggested that the animals may have gone into a type of dormancy. It has been said that in nearly all groups of animals there is at least an indication of a latent ability to hibernate or aestivate. Perhaps these abilities were supernaturally intensified during this period. With their bodily functions reduced to a minimum, the burden of their care would have been greatly lightened.
Conclusion
It is evident, when all the facts are examined that there is no scientific evidence that the biblical account of Noah’s ark is a myth or fable. The facts support the view that Noah’s ark was large enough to carry the number of animals required to repopulate the earth after the flood and that Noah and his family were capable of caring for the animals during their time on the Ark.
The flood of Noah’s day was a universal judgment of sin.
God destroyed the world that existed at that time because of their wickedness. When we look at nature, with its testimonies to the flood, we are viewing a reminder that God does judge sin. It is also a reminder that God will save those who have faith in Him from judgment. God promised that He would never again destroy the world with water, but that a future judgment would take place. Jesus Christ came into the world to die for our sins and to restore man’s relationship with God, so that we need not fear His judgment.
Noah pleaded with the people of his day to have faith in God. They would not listen and the door to the ark was closed. Now, Christ is calling unto the world to once again have faith in God. Will you answer His calling and be saved from future judgment? The decision is yours.
[ If this information has been helpful, please prayerfully consider a donation to help pay the expenses for making this faith-building service available to you and your family! Donations are tax-deductible. ]
Authors: Stanley E. Taylor and Paul S. Taylor, adapted from from their motion picture The World That Perished, produced and distributed by Eden Communications.
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Click Here The World That Perished DVD
by Films for Christ / Eden Communications
All about Noah’s Ark and the Flood - This award-winning, highly visual documentary film answers the questions of skeptics, and reveals the source of most fossils. Discover scientific and cultural evidence in support of the Bible’s cataclysmic flood that once covered our entire planet and continues to effect our lives today!
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That same articles resorts to a couple of miracles, and oodles of assumptions along the way, and in my book even that isn’t enough.
And you wonder how did Noah go about getting the American Buffalo from America that no one knew about or Australian Kangaroo and all the insects that hadn’t been discovered yet.
Sorry Brandt... you’re free to believe what you want, but creationists are a loooooooong way from making a scientific case out of their beliefs.
http://www.mightydrake.com/Rants/CaseAgainstCreationism.htm
http://www.bidstrup.com/creation.htm
aquila48 “I’m still waiting for you to tell me what the creationist theory is. Or, are you now saying that it is indeed Genesis the literal Genesis?”
Keep waiting you should have it when you can produce the falsifiable version of evolution theory!
aq48”- That the universe, as it exists today, was created in seven earth days? And you have evidence for that?”
There are 3 natural clocks employed in support of evolution portending millions and billions of years while there are over 100 other natural clocks indicating far far less years have passed in history.
aq48”- How long ago was that? Was it the 4000 or so odd years that a german monk (I think) calculated it to be? And you have evidence for that?”
I think you’re referring to Ussher. Don’t feel I need evidence since this is not in dispute.
aq48”- And Noah, did indeed put a pair of every species of animals on his Ark? Again, how big was his ark? Oh and what about the trees, and the germs? And all the species that have been discovered in the last couple of thousands of years, that noah never knew they existed?”
Answered resoundingly in my 3 prior posts.
aq48”- And which came first chronologically, your belief that the world was created according to Genesis, or your Christian faith? How are the two related? And given your Christian faith could you ever believe in anything other than Genesis?”
I was raised with a long-ages theistic evolution perspective which I did not discard until 15 years ago [49 years old now] when I began to question long-ages and macro-evolution. Thanks to other FR yec posters I followed and then joined in these cre vs evo debates in favor of a biblical perspective due to the overwhelming evidence for same.
Besides Dr. Walt Brown [creationscience.com] another
convert from agnostic to yec christian is Lee Strobel.
Perhaps you would benefit from listening to his books on tape:
“The Case for Christ”
“The Case for Creation”
“The Case for Faith”
aq48”- Do you admit that the main reason you’re a creationist is because you’re a christian that believes that the bible is the literal word of God?”
Well I began to accept the Bible as literal as I reviewed
the mountains of evidence pro and con for each theory. I
would have created a position of cognitive dissonance to try to hold onto any of the evolution paradigms except for micro evolution or change within a kind.
The public churches that we call public schools can teach the world’s religion, evolution, all they want. We home school.
Well when the evolution position is dissected it also shows oodles of assumptions and miracles. Miracles mind you that have no explanation and no author
just POOF there it is the single cell, no
wait POOF the cambrian explosion of mutiple never before seen life-forms.
On the other hand if you were to sincerely try to read and
understand the Bible you would be left affirming that the
Words therein had to be inspired by an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-seeing creator God.
You could start by exploring bible prophecy - say Psalm 22
which portrays Jesus Christ’s crucified. Psalm 22 was written approx 1,000 years before Jesus walked the Earth.
Any honest scholarly review of both ‘theories’ will show 2 things:
Neither is true hard science, and
Far more evidence favors short ages and the creation model.
You’re links show just how little you are/were willing to read the ‘opposition.’ My links refuted your links and your links doe not even quote the Bible accurately. Seems like your links are doing 2 unscientific things:
Outright lying, mis-quoting, and mis-representing creation, &
Providing no other source material for their rather thin conjectures.
You should look up the definition for brain-washing.
I’m not surprised in the least, but at least I can say I
read your links.
Again, you keep harping against evolution as though showing its shortcomings proves creationism.
Forget about evolution and make your case for creationism using evidence. But since you cannot state what the theory is, it’s hard to make a case for it. I got my problems with evolution as well, but I have even more problems with creationism - maybe there’s a better theory waiting to be discovered.
The report you sent me about Noah’s is full of presuppositions - it could be this or this could have happened this way. There’s no evidence, a few miracles, and many unsubstantiated assumptions.
The thing with creationism, is that if you accept it you have to deny not just evolution, but geology, astronomy, genetics, biology, and other branches of science.
As for Psalm 22 that you claim predicted the crucifixion of Jesus, that is your interpretation. The jews who believe in the old testament don’t seem to share that. Again, it’s belief not evidence.
I don’t think either one of us is going to convince the other.... But I wish you well.
The 1st 2 links I provided you make the case for creation quite well. I am not going to cut and paste them all to get you to read them.
aq48-”The thing with creationism, is that if you accept it you have to deny not just evolution, but geology, astronomy, genetics, biology, and other branches of science.”
Sorry but I don’t have to deny anything factual w/ those branches of science. The only thing I’m truly denying is called uniformitarianism. IOW if a lake accumulates 1 inch of sediment/year then for each and every 100 ft of sediment on the lake bottom = 120 years.
This is a logical fallacy the same as saying the movement of the continents are uniform [as with plate tectonics]. Geology 1st accepted this incorrectly and now some micro-biologists claim the same for ‘beneficial’ mutations - the only problem being [see below from my 1st link - item 3 esp. - all items 1-5 are applicable here].
1.DNA in “ancient” fossils. DNA extracted from bacteria that are supposed to be 425 million years old brings into question that age, because DNA could not last more than thousands of years.
from my links page...
Dinosaur Shocker - 68 million year old T Rex w/ red blood cells
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/10021606.html#ixzz0VZChRzSL
2.Lazarus bacteria—bacteria revived from salt inclusions supposedly 250 million years old, suggest the salt is not millions of years old. See also Salty saga. [BM - see also polystrate fossils.]
3.The decay in the human genome due to multiple slightly deleterious mutations each generation is consistent with an origin several thousand years ago. Sanford, J., Genetic entropy and the mystery of the genome, Ivan Press, 2005; see review of the book and the interview with the author in Creation 30(4):45–47,September 2008. This has been confirmed by realistic modelling of population genetics, which shows that genomes are young, in the order of thousands of years. See Sanford, J., Baumgardner, J., Brewer, W., Gibson, P. and Remine, W., Mendel’s Accountant: A biologically realistic forward-time population genetics program, SCPE 8(2):147–165, 2007.
[Aquila48, you are aware aren’t you that the vast majority of all lifeforms that ever existed on earth are now extinct? This may have been through predation and/or environment but also may speak of robustness/decay for each specific genome.]
4.The data for “mitochondrial Eve” are consistent with a common origin of all humans several thousand years ago.
5.Very limited variation in the DNA sequence on the human Y-chromosome around the world is consistent with a recent origin of mankind, thousands not millions of years.
[BM - #5 is also why racism [origins w/ Darwin and evolution] is no longer scientifcally valid as all mankind’s DNA are over 99.9% similar.]
Regarding astronomy the ‘experts’ claiming long ages again ignore Einstein’s time dilation due to weak vs strong forces of gravity. I suspect much more light will be shed on this when science knows as much about the heavens as they now know about 3 billion coded sequences in DNA.
I wish you well too and if you remain unconvinced that’s fine as I’m certain history will correct for the meddling government money has done to the integrity of true science.
One of the 1st things I learned on FreeRepublic is you have to be able to follow the money trail to see how it corrupts everything - most often proportionally.
I found humorous the complaint about the “presuppositions” involved in accepting the account of the global flood.
As if there are no presuppositions in the uniformitarian view.
Mankind would have to create a time machine in order to develop any scietific theories that are based upon past history.
If you review the scientific theory step #3 is repeatability.
Of course there is no step in the scientific method where you are allowed to throw out any/all data that contradicts your theory.
prior post #91 is intended as yet another sarcasm...
And _I_ get to define what “science” is.
I also love the canard that if you deny evolution, you deny all other “science”. This has been answered repeatedly.
1 Tim 6:20
Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to your care. Turn away from godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is falsely called science...
Have you heard/read the potato peeler analogy WRT uniformitarian assumptions?
Basically, the scenario is that you walk into a room and see a guy peeling potatos. He peels at 1 potato a minute and puts it back in the bowl with the unpeeled potatos.
You look into the bowl, count 20 peeled potatos and determine that he’s been at this for 20 minutes.
You disregard that their might have been peeled potatos when he started, that someone could have put more peeled potatos in or taken some out, and that his rate of peeling has been constant.
These are the assumptions of radiometric dating.
The best remark I recall regarding historical [hysterical] science went something like:
It is far more scholarly and trustworthy to try to re-create history starting from the recent, known, recorded, past and assimilate data going backwards than it is to start at the beginning and go forwards.
The latter will increase suppositions, assumptions, and out right fairy-tale telling exponentially when compared w/ the former.
Of course then you must also include the most trustworthy history book found in the world, the [by far] #1 best selling book worldwide, the one that corresponds 100% w/ every bit of archaeology paralleled in it’s passages.
That book of course is - The Holy Bible.
If you are related to your family, why is your aunt still alive?
She died years ago
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