Skip to comments.Teacher testifies in gay student murder trial
Posted on 08/04/2011 1:38:41 PM PDT by madprof98
LOS ANGELES The English teacher of a gay student who was shot by a classmate at a junior high school testified Wednesday that she told him to stop wearing eyeliner and mascara, but that he refused and the classroom disruption escalated.
She said King told her the school's assistant vice-principal, Joy Epstein, said he could. She said she went and spoke to Epstein, and was told King had constitutional rights to do so. Later, an email message was issued telling teachers that King's attire was allowed and that they should try to teach students tolerance.
Ekman said she incorporated the message of tolerance into her lessons, but that the problem continued. She said boys complained to her that King was chasing them into the bathroom.
"I explained to him that what he was doing was inappropriate and he laughed and said that he could go into the boys' bathroom and he liked to see them squirm," she said.
Ekman said she went to Epstein to complain about King's behavior again, but the administrator told her there was nothing that could be done. Four days later, King was shot in the head in the computer classroom at E.O Green School in Oxnard.
(Excerpt) Read more at ajc.com ...
It's in the constitution that fags can wear eye shadow and makeup. Who'da thunkit?
If the so called victim was “chasing” the other boys then maybe he was coming onto them
If he molested one of them what were the boys to do ???
Nobody was looking out for the other boys
The shooting is a bit drastic but we dont know how lot this had been going on before it escalated
and we done know exactly what the victim was doing to the boys or what he was saying..
No standards in schools always result in chaos. No right and wrong—no differentiation between boys and girls....all from Marxist sick ideology to destroy relationships. Moral relativism....no standard of right and wrong which used to come from the Bible. Christianity and the family unit—the two pillars of Western Civilization have to be destroyed. No Standards—means no rules to the game-—which always results in anger and unequal rights and fights.
No Rule of Law = chaos. The schools are set up with no right and wrong behaviors to create chaos and unrest and revolution from traditional behaviors which secured a certain amount of order and trust. No rules destroys trust and rules which allow unnatural acts to be normalized will cause much more anger among people who believe in Just Law and Natural Law—the foundational principles of our legal system for a reason.
That is true but I hope the killer gets the chair. There is no reason for killing no matter who. I mean what happened to just punching a guy in the face? Kids are so ridiculous today. No normal fights that we had 24 years ago. Heck we would have fights and then it was over. Today they just kill each other. It is a very tragic world today.
in other words the student who shot the victim may not have been “unstable”
He may have been afraid and helpless
The teachers were protecting the homosexual and lecturing the shooter and his classmates
While all the time it was the shooter and his classmates who needed protection..
Not kill the kid for goodness sake. Two families ruined for NOTHING. When I was in school the guys used mascara all the time and that was the straight ones. I went to Catholic high school and this was the 80’s so I guess that explains alot. lol. For the record, I did not wear mascara because I was not into that scene. But to kill a person over wearing mascara is ridiculous. I don't care who he is.
“It’s in the constitution that fags can wear eye shadow and makeup. Who’da thunkit?”
Well let’s face it, those guys all wore powdered wigs and skintight breeches, so it’s probably out there in the penumbra somewhere/s;)
Were you ever molested by another boy and had nobody to tell
Nobody who would care
and at the same time were being lectured on treating the perp “nice” ???
Its not a good spot to be in...
I didnt say killing him was right...
but these are just kids..
With nowhere to go and no end in sight..
Involuntary manslaughter is the worst case scenario if I was on the jury and maybe not even a conviction of any sort he was acting to prevent a felony sexual assault; for which the use of deadly force is available in most states.
Just out of curiosity, how often does crap like this happen in Chinese, South Korean or Indian schools?/sarcasm
Was the shooter one of Holder’s people? If not, he burns. You can’t go around shooting kids in school because they are weird. You’d run out of bullets quickly.
Not endorsing the killing, but kicking the girly boy’s ass would most assuredly have resulted in him being charged with a hate crime. Then to be vilified and persecuted by the press, the homo supporters, etc.
The boy had nowhere to turn. He felt completely powerless, was basically being told that he was at fault for not being “tolerant enough”. He tried to work within the “system” and the “system” turned on him.
He resorted to the only course of action that he believed would grant him relief from his pursuer.
Sad situation all the way around.
The shooting "victim" was a bully and a predator. The shooter was a victim of that predator and could find no help from the school. This is a sad situation, and I would not enjoy serving on the jury. The shooter committed a crime, but he was set up by the society that should have protected all the children in the school and not just one freak who enjoyed being a bully.
An intelligent teacher might have told the bully that, yes, he had according to the school a right to act like a freak but that he would have few friends in school and miss out on the chance to learn how to make friends if he continued abusing others for the fun of making them squirm. An intelligent administration, confronted with an unacceptable lawsuit risk on one side and an unacceptable risk to the normal children on the other side, would have "allowed" the little bully to dress as he liked but provided continuous supervision to keep him from using his freakishness as a source of power. There were so many opportunities to do this right (including standing up to the parents and explaining that even if there was a legal right to dress like a freak, it was harming their child socially), but the school and the family did nothing.
That is true, but what would the guy do if in the real world at his job there was a guy wearing mascara. I mean it is horrible about tolerance today, but you still have to deal with different types of people whether we like it or not. Sure he could quit his job but his parents could have sent him to another school too. Oh well I wonder how he will do in jail with all the guys who want to have him in their cell. I think he was really stupid for doing this because he could deal with one gay guy when now he is going to have to deal with 100’s of gays that are in jail.
No I wasn’t and I am sure that it would be horrible but getting gang raped in jail is not going to be fun either. He had about a few years to deal with this guy and now he will be gang raped for life.
I suppose that sounds good in theory, but it is neither reasonable nor possible to provide "continuous supervision" of a child who is determined to harass others, especially when that child is obviously not responding to normal motivational techniques. The simple reality is that the kid was on a collision course with what most of us rightly define as normality. The only way to stop that was to take him off the course, as his English teacher tried in vain to do. Meanwhile, the teachers who got praised were the ones BUYING him dresses, evidently beloved of administrators who thought of that (and bathroom squirming, I guess) as constitutionally protected.
You are assuming the kid who killed him was a mini-adult rather than (like his victim) a child—and a disturbed one. As the AP article notes, further testimony indicated that the killer had himself been sexually molested, no doubt by another male. There is plenty of additional evidence that he was disturbed and prone to violence. There is no earthly reason he should have been subjected in a PUBLIC SCHOOL to the kind of abusive behavior that would set off his trigger.
The “system” set this 14 year old boy up.
At 14, I don’t think for one minute he had a reasonable grasp as to all of the consequences, like the ones you laid out. Could he have transferred schools? Possibly. But then what of the others left behind to be taunted by the girly boy? In this case, the “system” gave preference to one vs. looking out for the many.
He tried to work within the “system”. A “system” designed to endorse, recognize and encourage the behavior of the girly boy. A “system” designed to re-educate the straight to accept the girly boy’s behavior and to then “tolerate” its actions that the boy felt threatened by.
There is nothing indicating what took place in the restroom, but I don’t believe it was completely harmless if the boy felt threatened by it enough to resort to shooting the other kid.
20/20 hindsight or even foresight by an adult is one thing, but I think that expecting a 14 year old to to envision things the same as an adult would be a tad ambitious.
The “system” failed both of these kids and will walk away scott free by making a promise to do more “tolerance and inclusion” education classes for the students and faculty.
The defense attorney is smart in going for what is essentially a PTSD defense.
“There is no reason for killing no matter who” is only true if you are dealing with mentally sound children. It can be broken down like this.
Temporary insanity. Say a boy is intensely claustrophobic, and despite resisting, another boy forces him into a small, dark box. In a state of terror, the claustrophobic boy grabs a pencil and stabs the other boy in the neck, killing him.
In this case, the trauma from being molested by one or two people is such that temporary insanity negates the “cooling off” period that usually distinguishes manslaughter from murder. Mentally, the boy can be described as like being a wild animal trapped in a cage.
That, and the statement by the deceased that he wanted to watch the other boys “squirm”, makes it much easier to argue in behalf of a lesser punishment, likely combined with extended psychological counseling.
I know of several cases in which that has been done. It can't be done in a feral school in which there are just too many discipline problems, but it can and should be done in any reasonably functional school with a limited number of predators. An assistant principal may require the bully to stay in the cafeteria during lunch and keep the brat in sight or even stay close for the little pest's entire lunch period, or they may have an instructional assistant walk him from one class to the next and then accompany him during lunch, but they can make the school safe from a limited number of kids with useless parents.
I hope you’re right and that it succeeds to at least some extent. The prosecution is trying this 14 y/o child as an adult! I missed that the first time through, but it is shockingly far out of line for the crime. Trial as an adult is reasonable for a career child criminal that age who kills someone in a robbery or commits forcible rape, but not for a disturbed bullying victim.
I blame the socialist frauds running our schools into the ground for this. The 14 year old boy wearing girl make-up was unnecessarily disturbing the class. He should have been expelled until he wised up. After he graduates he can run up and down the street in full drag singing opera and no one would much care.
Ray Charles could have seen this coming, even while blind and deceased.
Fox also asked her if she thought Epstein, who was openly lesbian, empowered King. Crowley said yes.
Teacher testifies at McInerney trial that King lacked social skills
By Zeke Barlow
Updated Monday, August 1, 2011
CHATSWORTH Larry King was a sweet, caring kid who endeared himself to certain teachers at E.O. Green School but had trouble making that same connection with students his own age, according to court testimony Monday.
“He desperately wanted to be liked but didn’t have the social skills to get along with his peers,” Susan Crowley, King’s seventh-grade special education teacher, testified at the trial of Brandon McInerney. “He often said things that were one note off the mark.”
When he came to her class wearing a pink scarf, she told him to take it off, said Crowley, who testified that she probably knew King better than anyone at the school. Then there was the jewelry and makeup that followed.
“I was concerned they were designed to draw negative attention to himself and would make him unhappy and victimized,” she said. “He couldn’t distinguish between positive and negative attention. He just wanted people to pay attention to him.”
The last time she spoke with him, she told him to take off the pink nail polish he was wearing.
King, 15, was killed a few weeks later shot twice in the back of the head at the Oxnard school. McInerney, 17, is charged with murder and a hate crime. Crowley testified Monday on the 18th day of McInerney’s trial.
King was extremely immature for his age and didn’t have a firm grasp of his sexuality, she said. A year before he was wearing women’s high-heeled boots and telling friends he was gay, he had complained that another boy was sexually harassing him at school. King told Crowley back then that he wasn’t gay, she said.
“I think Larry was probably gay, but I don’t think he knew that,” she said. “He had a lot of years before he could figure it out.”
Crowley said she did not think former assistant principal Joy Epstein was being truthful when she testified that King’s behavior was being adequately addressed by school administrators and that very few people had complained about King’s clothing.
“It is impossible for any sentient being not to know,” Crowley said. “Every conversation I had with an adult leading up to his death was about Larry’s behavior.”
Senior Deputy District Attorney Maeve Fox asked Crowley if she thought the school staff was to blame for King’s death.
“Is blame the same as responsibility?” Crowley said.
Fox also asked her if she thought Epstein, who was openly lesbian, empowered King. Crowley said yes.
Epstein’s sexuality was an issue earlier in the day. It was the first time the jury had heard about it, although testifying teachers had danced around the subject for weeks.
Debi Goldstein, an eighth-grade math teacher who had McInerney in a class in 2008, said the problems King’s attire was causing at school were well-known among teachers and administrators, including Epstein.
“She said there were problems going on at the school at the time but it didn’t bother anybody and none of the teachers had come to complain and that is not true,” Goldstein testified. “The teachers were upset because it was disruptive to the environment and upsetting the students.”
Under cross-examination, Goldstein said she never personally saw any of the problems King was allegedly causing. Goldstein said she didn’t know of specific complaints but heard other teachers talking about it in the lunchroom.
“I knew teachers were upset,” Goldstein said. “She (Epstein) was not doing her job as an administrator if she did not know things were bothering the staff.”
Shirley Brown, a seventh-grade teacher at E.O. Green, also testified that she didn’t think Epstein was adequately addressing the issue of King’s behavior and its impact on students.
Brown said when King came to school with thick pancake and eye makeup, she told him to take it off.
“He looked like a clown, and if a girl came into my class like that, I would tell her to go to the bathroom and wash it off,” Brown testified. “I would talk to any student who was doing anything that was making themselves a target.”
She said she complained to the head principal about King’s safety.
“My comment was that if something wasn’t done soon, Larry would be taken behind the back shed of the P.E. area and be beaten to death,” Brown said.
Fox asked Brown what she said to the administration when she complained about King’s attire.
“I said something to the effect of, ‘Gay rights? What about the rights of the sixth-, seventh- and eighth-graders who come here and are not ready for this information?’ “ Brown testified.
Fox also brought up a union grievance Epstein brought against Brown for making what Epstein thought were offensive homophobic and anti-Semitic remarks. Brown said the comments were grossly misunderstood and the grievance was dismissed the next day.
Brown said she once saw a group of boys chasing King, which she described as a potentially unpleasant situation. Fox asked her if she stepped in to stop the chasing.
“No,” Brown said.
The trial continues Tuesday. It is being held in Chatsworth because of pretrial publicity in Ventura County.
Those “socialist frauds” of which you speak are the “system” that I’m referring to.
That and PC.
But fly a Confederate flag tee shirt, wear a Heterosexual Pride tee shirt or get mad when the school flies the Mexican flag and you have NO rights.
It almost goes without saying: the kid will commit suicide because he had no help and now has no hope.
Iatrogenic - a supposed cure whose treatment only aggravates the alleged disease.
Some political movements need dead kids to use as political props. They just got another one.
Is it too late to go back to the 50s?
That is not what happened in this case. The shooter was a 14-year-old who was tormented incessantly by sexual bullying. Instead of helping the victim of bullying, the school (especially lesbian principal Joy Epstein) actively encouraged the bully's behavior.
The shooter should just have beaten the bully severely, since that probably would be sufficient. However, the bully was older and possibly bigger than the shooter, so that might not have been an option in the mind of the shooter. So what option does that leave in the mind of a tormented 14-year-old?
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This is a very disturbing article. One mentally ill teenage boy was allowed, with the administration's stamp of approval, not only to dress as a girl but to harass and torment the other boys. The insane perverts and their enablers are running the asylum. If anyone still harbors the thought that public schools aren't that bad, please read this article. Of course not every school is the same, but those pushing the homosexual agenda have their sights on public schools and they will not stop until they are stopped. Young kids are prey, and homosexuals and their enablers on the left are predators.
Since the principle is a homosexual herself, there is no remedy. The only remedy is what you are doing - more and more parents need to pull their kids from school and do homeschooling.
I think so too. I save money because we don’t have to keep up with the current fashions or have coach bags at 11 yrs old. No fights over make up. No $25 a week for lunches or having to donate money for teacher gift cards. We spend quality time together & I am learning new things also. After school we go play with the horses. My daughter was born to me at 41 yrs of age so she is truly a blessing & spending time with her is extra special to me. I am less stressed then I was with her older siblings. We have lots of fun & while I do use an online school we do have books & workbooks too. NJ is a great state to home school in so far.
I am sure your daughter will remember her “school days” with great pleasure.
I hope so. She does grumble about feeding the chickens now that we bought a small farm to keep the horses with us.
IF they continue promoting disorder and depravity as normal THEN there will be unintended consequences. Disorder breeds disorder. There is a reason society has historically placed no value in or promoted homosexual sex, THIS is one of the reasons.
What happened to just going by a regular dress code. Most people don’t care about if some guy’s homosexual so long as he dresses like a man, and doesn’t get all in your face with innuendos. That being said I probably would have at least been a little disciplinary about the kid who tried looking feminine.
As for the kids who killed him, that’s also wretched, and hopefully it is punished. But the schoolboard is a simple mess too, and there’s no denying it. It used to be that you got in trouble for acting all like a woman and causing trouble for the other boys, especially when others can see it. That’s totally rediculous, school is for learning. If some person wants to get all transvestite, do it at home.