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Amid Criticism on Downgrade of U.S., S.&P. Fires Back
New York Times ^ | August 6, 2011 | NELSON D. SCHWARTZ and ERIC DASH

Posted on 08/07/2011 5:17:23 AM PDT by reaganaut1

The day after Standard & Poor’s took the unprecedented step of stripping the United States government of its top credit rating, the ratings agency offered a full-throated defense of its decision, calling the bitter stand-off between President Obama and Congress over raising the debt ceiling a “debacle.” It warned that further downgrades may lie ahead.

In an unusual Saturday conference call with reporters, senior S.& P. officials insisted the ratings firm hadn’t overstepped its bounds by focusing on the political paralysis in Washington as much as fiscal policy in determining the new rating. “The debacle over the debt ceiling continued until almost the midnight hour,” said John B. Chambers, chairman of S.& P.’s sovereign ratings committee.

Another S.& P. official, David Beers, added that “fiscal policy, like other government policy, is fundamentally a political process.”

Initial reactions from Congressional leaders suggested that S.& P.’s action was unlikely to force consensus on the fundamental divide over spending and taxes. Politicians on both sides used the decision to bolster their own long-standing positions.

Officials at the White House and Treasury criticized S.& P.’s move as based on faulty budget accounting that did not factor in the just-enacted deal for increasing the debt limit.

Gene Sperling, the director of the White House national economic council, called the difference, totaling over $2 trillion, “breathtaking” and said that “the amateurism it displayed” suggested “an institution starting with a conclusion and shaping any arguments to fit it.”

Even as the ratings agency insisted on Saturday that its move shouldn’t have come as a shock, it reverberated around the world. Officials from China to Europe scrambled to assess the downgrade’s impact on the already troubled global economy, and political leaders in the United States sought to frame the issue in their favor.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bhoeconomy; dollarcollapse; downgrade; getreadyhereitcomes; nationaldebt; obamanomics; standardandpoors

1 posted on 08/07/2011 5:17:28 AM PDT by reaganaut1
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Comment #2 Removed by Moderator

To: reaganaut1

Officials at the White House and Treasury criticized S.& P.’s move as based on faulty budget accounting that did not factor in the just-enacted deal for increasing the debt limit.


How can we be broke? We still have a credit card.


3 posted on 08/07/2011 5:30:44 AM PDT by reformedliberal
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To: Daffynition

Thank you. This should be required reading.


4 posted on 08/07/2011 5:31:47 AM PDT by AD from SpringBay (We deserve the government we allow.)
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To: reaganaut1
S&P rates entities. There is no gamesmanship here. There isn't any politicking in the traditional sense. With the problems America is facing, we are an increased risk for investors. S&P is doing what it is supposed to. What else could this administration expect, considering the fiscal implementing of poor financial policies?
5 posted on 08/07/2011 5:33:00 AM PDT by He Rides A White Horse (((((unite)))))
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To: reformedliberal

Of course... more debt is always the best solution for the problem of too much debt.


6 posted on 08/07/2011 5:42:58 AM PDT by Zeddicus
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To: He Rides A White Horse

After the Crash of 2008 there was a lot of talk that the
ratings agency’s were at fault for being lax.

Today they do their job and they are called nit pickers.

Just last week the Italian government putting pressure on them.


7 posted on 08/07/2011 5:45:44 AM PDT by DUMBGRUNT (The best is the enemy of the good!)
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To: reaganaut1

Ratings agencies should have lowered the ratings of the gubermint’s debt based on the size and exponential rise the debt. It’s been obvious for years that this is unsustainable.


8 posted on 08/07/2011 5:48:08 AM PDT by MulberryDraw ( Where's the democrat budget? What's the plan?)
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To: reaganaut1

“the amateurism it displayed” suggested “an institution starting with a conclusion and shaping any arguments to fit it.”

What’s the old playground retort? “It takes one to know one?”

Sperling’s criticism is a pitch-perfect characterization of this administration’s approach to health care reform, Porkulus, Cash for Clunkers and dozens of other bone-headed ideas in which facts were never allowed to interfere with the headlong rush to adopt ideas that progressive “experts” felt certain America needed.

That every one of these ideas has produced “unintended” consequences (read: turned out the opposite of what was promised/predicted) has in no way tarnished them in the eyes of true believers. Quite the contrary, the most delusional (e.g., Paul Krugman) argue that we simply didn’t go far enough: we spend TOO LITTLE on stimulus spending; the health law would have been vastly better with a public option etc.

Thus, when any member of this administration alludes to “amateurism” and bending facts to fit preconceived conclusions, they are speaking from years of experience.


9 posted on 08/07/2011 6:23:11 AM PDT by DrC
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To: Daffynition; Man50D; Principled; EternalVigilance; phil_will1; kevkrom; Bigun; PeteB570; FBD; ...

Thnks for the ping!

Just so!

As the expression goes, the LIEberal/Socialist/Marxist/Fascist Bastards have run out of other people’s money to spend.

And, get this: “. . . political leaders in the United States sought to frame the issue in their favor.”

Where, and when, might I ask, are these sh!tferbrains politicians going to start framing issues in favor of WE THE PEOPLE?

Is it 2012 yet?

Each of us, in whatever way we can participate (time, talent or treasure):

MUST DO EVERYTHING IN OUR POWER TO ENSURE THAT THIS LIEBERAL/MARXIST/SOCIALIST/FASCIST SCUMBAG AND HIS FELLOW TRAVELERS ARE NOT RETAINED IN POWER!

[Rant over] Please do everything you can to help us defeat them.

Thanks.

FRank


10 posted on 08/07/2011 6:25:04 AM PDT by Taxman (So that the beautiful pressure does not diminish!)
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Comment #11 Removed by Moderator

To: DrC

The more I hear Obama and his minions speak, the more it seems they all must have take a Hypocritic Oath as a condition of joining this administration.


12 posted on 08/07/2011 6:27:05 AM PDT by DrC
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To: Taxman

The United States government wouldn’t be able to borrow a DIME if they were treated like an average citizen with such a debt to income ratio! I say S&P didn’t go far enough!

Raising the debt limit to correct overspending is like trying to cure alcoholism with more whiskey!


13 posted on 08/07/2011 6:49:39 AM PDT by Bigun ("The most fearsome words in the English language are I'm from the government and I'm here to help!")
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks reaganaut1.
"The debacle over the debt ceiling continued until almost the midnight hour," said John B. Chambers, chairman of S.& P.'s sovereign ratings committee. Another S.& P. official, David Beers, added that "fiscal policy, like other government policy, is fundamentally a political process."
For "full-throated defense" read "climbdown". These jokers are obviously gutless, obviously under pressure, obviously feel the threat of a federal takeover breathing down their necks, and are starting the process of backing down.


14 posted on 08/07/2011 6:59:07 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Yes, as a matter of fact, it is that time again -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: DrC

From Para-Ord.45, yesterday comes this quote, which needs to be stated often!

-S&P exec John Chambers,

“But $4 trillion would be a good down payment. We thought that..if policy makers could deliver the goods on that, then that would be a strong sign on our political scores and eventually on our projections on the fiscal side.”

S&P has already said it may slash the Triple-A rating if a debt ceiling deal is not accompanied by what it deems is a credible plan to cut the $14.3 trillion federal [debt] by $4 trillion.

S&P’s Chambers is saying the ratings agency wants to see at least a $4 trillion deal, one that would come with bipartisan support.

There was only ever one plan that did what S&P said was required — $4 trillion in cuts with bipartisan support. That’d be Cut, Cap, and Balance — a plan that cut $4 trillion and got bipartisan support in the House of Representatives.

As Democrats tonight, and some Republicans, lash out and blame the Tea Party for causing the United States to lose its credit rating, it is worth pointing out that only the Tea Party offered up a plan to avoid what happened.-


15 posted on 08/07/2011 7:07:55 AM PDT by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra
As Democrats tonight, and some Republicans, lash out and blame the Tea Party for causing the United States to lose its credit rating, it is worth pointing out that only the Tea Party offered up a plan to avoid what happened.

Worth repeating, again and again.

16 posted on 08/07/2011 7:09:50 AM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: He Rides A White Horse

I think many of us have come to believe S&P and DOW leadership has been coopted by The Usurping Marxist Onada and his band of angry commies.

Given the actual state of the US economy none of their analysis or reporting indices made one iota of sense. Always rising upon preliminary rosy gov’t economic reports; then continuing to rise once those reports were revised seriously downward.

The question, therefore, is what has changed that would cause them to suddenly and unexpectedly—on the face if it anyway—change their tune? The components that went into this budget disaster didn’t materialize over night. Even as Onada continued spending money the gov’t didn’t have, unemployment kept rising, continuing housing market deterioration, manufacturing decline etc. the S&P and DOW climbed ever upward.

So why now? The same Wall Street leadership is in place today that was in place two, three or four months ago.


17 posted on 08/07/2011 7:18:19 AM PDT by dools0007world (uestion)
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To: dools0007world
The question, therefore, is what has changed that would cause them to suddenly and unexpectedly—on the face if it anyway—change their tune? The components that went into this budget disaster didn’t materialize over night.

I will respectfully disagree. The budget debate and uncertainty would be a factor. The printed of worthless paper is another. Perhaps they expected us to correct our course, and we failed. I don't believe we have been co-opted by anything except the fiscal irresponsibility by our government. If anything, I'm surprised that it didn't happen sooner.

18 posted on 08/07/2011 7:37:35 AM PDT by He Rides A White Horse (((((unite)))))
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra

“it is worth pointing out that only the Tea Party offered up a plan to avoid what happened.-

But another part of your post merits equal emphasis. It’s not just that they offered up a plan (anyone can do that), but that their plan actually passed the House, so it didn’t just appeal to the 22% of voters who identify as Tea Partiers.

The failure of this bill to advance further can be laid at the feet of President (My Way or the Highway) Obama and Harry Reid. A true leader would have set aside his personal preferences in favor of recognizing an approach that had majority support among voters and that also was a solid first step in getting onto a more fiscally sustainable glide path. Such a leader would have invested the same sort of energy/political capital as Obama did in ramming his health plan through Congress: he would have demanded that Senate Democrats hold their nose and vote in favor of the House plan even if they did not personally agree with it or thought it might cause problems with their constituents in 2012.

That Obama did none of these things tells us all we need to know about his leadership skills and about who to blame for the credit rating downgrade.


19 posted on 08/07/2011 7:39:30 AM PDT by DrC
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To: DUMBGRUNT
Today they do their job and they are called nit pickers.

I agree. Our policies have brought this upon ourselves. Somebody finally called us on it. That's what I see.

20 posted on 08/07/2011 7:40:41 AM PDT by He Rides A White Horse (((((unite)))))
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To: reaganaut1

If they were to take it to the streets, they could demonstrate why their figures are more accurate than the figure the government is always devising...


21 posted on 08/07/2011 7:46:28 AM PDT by trebb ("If a man will not work, he should not eat" From 2 Thes 3)
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To: AD from SpringBay

Thanks. I find it interesting that much of the *good*/up-to-date writing is coming from the UK, these days. ;)


22 posted on 08/07/2011 8:23:47 AM PDT by Daffynition ("Don't just live your life, but witness it also.")
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To: reaganaut1
The following table shows the additional debt spending authorized in that disaster of a bill. This is just the initial debt spending. We all know whatever they agree to today will only grow larger tomorrow. This nation's spending is now in freefall, out of control, and no hope in sight. I was suprised the downgrade was only one step lower. It should have been many steps lower.

In $ Trillions 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 2021
Total  $1,936 $2,107 $2,319 $2,570 $2,668 $2,854 $2,899 $2,945 $2,992 $3,039
Social Security $623 $751 $924 $1,123 $1,166 $1,309 $1,309 $1,309 $1,309 $1,309
Health and Human Services $270 $299 $329 $361 $395 $414 $434 $454 $475 $496
Discretionary Spending $1,043 $1,057 $1,066 $1,086 $1,107 $1,131 $1,156 $1,182 $1,208 $1,234

23 posted on 08/07/2011 8:42:42 AM PDT by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: reaganaut1

I wonder what the other credit rating agencies are going to do when the S&P downgrades the USA again?


24 posted on 08/07/2011 8:45:28 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: reaganaut1
The "bitter stand-off between Obama and Congress" is the debacle? Nonsense. The DEBACLE is the unprecedented amount of debt the nation is carrying and the fact that it is going to waste 20% of our tax revenue paying the interest on this debt. We are getting WAY beyond the level of debt that the country can carry. I'm very disappointed that S&P didn't point this out.
25 posted on 08/07/2011 9:29:56 AM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: DrC

Right on!


26 posted on 08/07/2011 9:50:23 AM PDT by Son House (The Economic Boom Heard Around The World => TEA Party 2012)
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To: He Rides A White Horse

But all these components have been there almost from the time Onada stole the WH and Wall Street began overtly covering for Onada. No?


27 posted on 08/07/2011 10:06:06 AM PDT by dools0007world (uestion)
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To: reaganaut1

Small Businesswoman’s Epic Rant Against Obama’s Disastrous Economic Policies

http://antimullah.com/


28 posted on 08/07/2011 10:37:23 AM PDT by KeyLargo
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To: reaganaut1

...so after watching Lindsey Lohan stagger around drunkenly screaming about how no one would hire her before passing out in the gutter, would you lend her money?

Neither would anyone else.

We have the Lindsey Lohan government - and flashing our private parts at everyone around us isn’t going to make them want to give us more.

Elections have consequences. A majority voted the wrong way and now we’re all going to pay. :(:(:(:(:(:(


29 posted on 08/07/2011 10:39:12 AM PDT by Tzimisce (Never forget that the American Revolution began when the British tried to disarm the colonists.)
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To: CodeToad

Thanks for the numbers. May I ask what is the source? How is SS spending supposed to level off after 2017?


30 posted on 08/07/2011 11:22:32 AM PDT by reaganaut1
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To: Taxman

A quick blurb about the rise of Hitler and his international clones, past and present: I am convinced that there were and still are powerful forces and ideas at work behind the scenes. Call them the conspiracy, the oligarchs, the super-wealthy elites, human nature, whatever that pass the baton from generation to generation. Motivated by impulses most of us “simple folk” cannot fully understand, while they occasionally fail, they often successfully engineer circumstances that can be predicted to preserve and/or extend their wealth and power (mainly power, as from power flow the riches).

I said that to say this: At Versailles after WWI, some of the cooler heads there warned that the highly punitive provisions of that treaty would cause the German people to become susceptible to the rise of a tyrant promising to restore their national pride and raise their devastated nation to power once again. They got him in the early 30s and the rest is history.

If you don’t yet see a parallel between driving Germany to her knees at Versailles and the intentionally destructive things being done to America — largely sans any meaningful protests or outcry — by the would-be despot in the White House, go back to that NYT crossword or the sports page and order another Starbucks ‘cause it’s gonna be alright — NOT!!!

My fear is that this time it won’t take the 14 years it took Hitler — Versailles ‘(1919) to his appointment as Chancellor (1933) — as the guy selected for the position is ALREADY IN PLACE!

Be afraid. Be VERY AFRAID ESPECIALLY IF WE DON’T OUST HIM AND HIS GANG OF ENABLERS IN 2012.


31 posted on 08/07/2011 2:16:39 PM PDT by Dick Bachert
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To: reaganaut1

This White House accuses some other entity of “amateurism?” Wow, that’s rich, coming from the biggest bunch of Executive branch amateurs that this country has ever seen.


32 posted on 08/07/2011 3:01:54 PM PDT by RedWhiteBlue (Mama tried)
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To: reaganaut1

David Axelshaft is the Ultimate CON-ARTIST! He knows Obama is an Absolute Fraud, and Axelshaft perpetrated the Fraud of getting this Muslim Terrorist elected to America’s Most Important Office! Look at who Axelshaft got elected before OBOZO! He saved John Street’s Butt in the reelection bid for Mayor of the Most Corrupt Demorat City of Filthydelphia!
and I believe the EX-Mayor of Detroit who is now in Prison!!
among other Scumbags!! AXELROD doesn’t have a good bone or cell in his disgusting body!!! The Chinese Ministers were saying in the 90’s that they would Conquer America Economically and Financially because of Our Corruption and Decay!!! How RIGHT they were and are!!!!! We are observing and Living through a Textbook overthrow of the Greates Nation to ever exist on Planet Earth!! Thomas Jefferson stated: “The Enemy within America’s Gates are 10 Times More Dangerous than those Outside her gates!! Beware of Them!! Dinghy Harry Reid sold his Soul to SATAN long ago and Loves His CONDO in the RITZ CARLTON in Washington, D.C., just have the RNC run an AD on how much Dinghy Harry spends just for his RITZ-Carton DIGS for a Year!!! MILLIONS!! and MILLIONS!! Does THE DINGHY care about the Working American? absolutely NOT!! Harry depends on the Stupidity and Control over his Voters! SEIU Union Bozos and Illegals and Sponges who get Government Handouts like thos same dirtballs who were entertained in the Roman Coliseum and lived on Handouts! There are NO HANDOUTS in CHINA nor RUSSIA!!


33 posted on 08/07/2011 3:18:58 PM PDT by True Republican Patriot (May GOD SAVE OUR AMERICA from ALLAH and his Prophet, HUSSEIN OBAMA!!)
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To: reaganaut1

34 posted on 08/07/2011 3:24:03 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: reaganaut1
The Bill itself gives the numbers.

Budget Control Act of 2011

35 posted on 08/07/2011 5:45:45 PM PDT by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: Taxman; reaganaut1; All

Thanks for the ping/post; post; thread. BUMP!


36 posted on 08/07/2011 7:05:36 PM PDT by PGalt
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