Skip to comments.How Bad Could A Mormon President Be?
Posted on 08/07/2011 11:35:29 AM PDT by Kaslin
How bad would it be to have a Mormon President in the White House?
"The Marxism that exists in the White House right now is waaay more disturbing to me" noted Phil, a recent caller to one of my daily talk shows. "If we could replace that with Mormonism, I think thatd be a huge improvement..."
I completely agree with Phil. But if a recent Gallup poll is any indication, lots of Americans think differently than us and this should be a wake-up call for former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney, and the entire Republican Party.
Im not assuming that Mr. Romney will necessarily end up being the Republican presidential nominee. He's the current frontrunner in fundraising, ground game support, and popularity among likely voters, but as other candidates drop out Newt Gingrich, for example will Romney pick up those supporters? Time will tell.
For now, Republican strategists have to think seriously about how to hold together the divided coalitions on the right, and how to get over the "religious hurdles" that nobody wants to talk about. And those of us rank-and-file voters are going to have to wrestle with my question "how bad would it be - really?"
Before I go further, let me be clear on where I stand. I was honored to vote for Mr. Romney during the 2008 Republican primary races, even though at the time I was a resident and registered voter in "McCain Country" (Arizona).
I also grew up in a theologically conservative, Protestant Evangelical, church-going family, and was taught that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is a "cult." As an adult, I earned a graduate degree in Philosophy at a fairly reputable Evangelical divinity school, where, among other things, I learned about the theological differences between Evangelical Protestants and Mormons.
I disclose these things simply to make this point: I understand the theological tensions between Mormonism and other faith traditions, and my choice to be friends with and supportive of Mormons is by no means an uninformed choice.
I also know that, generally speaking, Mormons love America; they regard the U.S. Constitution as something that is to be respected; and Mormons generally have a profound understanding of the importance of individual liberty. These are all essential and necessary ingredients for American statesmanship, and if it takes a Mormon to return these ideals back to the White House, well, then, so be it.
But back to the polling data. According to the Gallup organization, roughly 22% of Americans simply will not vote for a Mormon to be President. Period. It doesn't matter who the incumbent is, or the party affiliation of the respective candidates. If a presidential candidate is identified with the L.D.S. Church, these voters simply will not cast their ballot for that candidate. Among Republicans and Independents that number drops down to 20%, and among Democrats, specifically, the number skyrockets up to 27%.
So, can Mr. Romney win against these odds? We'll see how things shape-up once the Republican Primary process unfolds. But one thing is for sure: Team Romney most avoid the mistakes of the previous campaign.
Early in his last presidential bid, Mr. Romney claimed that he didn't want to talk about his church, but instead, wanted to talk about being President. But the "Mormon thing" proved to be unavoidable then, and will be that way again this time.
Thus, Mr. Romney should stop trying to prove to "them" - theologically conservative Evangelicals, and Catholics - that he is one of "them." The more he insists that we are all "on the same page," religiously speaking, the more that theologically conservative Catholics and Protestants will say "oh, no were not..."
Instead, Mr. Romney should explain why his Mormonism matters to the cause of American civic leadership; that his faith enables him to understand the dignity of the human person, the sanctity of life, the profundity of marriage, the necessity of human liberty, and so forth. He needs to honestly admit that, while the theological divide is real, our American values are universal.
On this point, Romney could borrow from the immediate past Commander-in-Chief. In a little-known speech from March of 2001, President George W. Bush spoke at the opening of the Pope John Paul II Cultural Center in Washington. Bush, of course, is a Methodist (with strong ties to non-denominational Evangelicalism), yet he managed to do a remarkable job of stating to the Catholic hierarchy, "I may not be a parishioner but I'm a sojourner with you..." and then brilliantly went on to say that we are "one" with our values.
Romney must avoid appearing as though he's denying the existence of theological tensions. At the same time, he needs to stay out of theological debates, and steer the "religious questions" in to a discussion about values.
It is a difficult task at hand for Mr. Romney, yet his Mormonism nurtures our American values. He needs to say as much.
“There was persecution of Mormons outside law that is equivalent to what was done to the American Indians and African Americans.”
Nonsense...you forget to mention that he had his own private army and called himself Lieutenant General Smith when this was considered bad form. Joseph Smith was a dangerous man. By the way...he DIDN’T die a matyr. He had been smuggled two pistols which he used to kill some in the “mob” that came to get him. Plus, he was in jail for destroying a newspaper that was publishing stuff against him. Smith was a David Koresh and L. Ron Hubbard. He was a flim flam man.
It wasn’t a socio-politcal position. It was a crazy, factually inaccurate characterization of Mormons like some kind of cult.
Remember, early, devout Christians right before the apostasy in the 1st century, were also considered part of a cult. That’s often used by the popular culture of the time to fight again truth.
He won’t lose enough votes to make his religion matter.
Look at Barry.
10 reasons, easily, why he should have never been elected but he was.
People always want Hope and Change.
Most people aren’t all that informed as they live their lives, try to do what’s right and love their families.
Joseph Smith’s life was threatened dozens of times by evil men long before he was actually killed. The Newspaper issue was a mistake, but that was just a small thing.. Mormon Newspapers were also destroyed by mobs. It was a raw and lawless society at the time.
The bottom line. Evil men (who think you perhaps) were responsible for killing a Prophet of God. He was called and ordained by God. You will find that out at the judgement seat of Christ.
“testimony” and “testify” are tokens of their claim of truth.
You’re not going to get anywhere with this.
Of course it’s socio-political because it involves views which impact both his social as well as his political convictions. You can’t separate your beliefs from its social and political impact.
Christians, as described by the Bible, are followers of Jesus Christ. Mormons deny the death and resurrection of Christ. Furthermore, they deny the triune God.
There is a clear distinction between followers of Jesus Christ of the Old and New Testament, and Joseph Smiths The Book of Mormons Mormons.
Move on? It’s a good thing I wasn’t trying to “get anywhere”.
Christians, as described by the Bible, are followers of Jesus Christ. Mormons deny the death and resurrection of Christ. Furthermore, they deny the triune God.
That’s not a serious post. I should probably move on, your analysis is like DU’s analysis of conservative prinicples.
Moronic analysis. In the 2002 Massachusetts gubernatorial election, Romney won 50% to 45% (with the Greeniac and the Losertarian getting most of the rest). Obviously, Gallup is wrong.
Mormon has nothing to do with anything.
The fact that he is a nutless vajayjay repubic has everything to do with it.
You always crack me up.
He is two, three, many Mitt Romneys.
Someone’s shaking the dust off their feet. I’m surprised you’re still here with all us “haters” and “Gentiles”.
"Tolerance, Acceptance, Diversity."
Sheesh. Haters is so yesterday right along with your 8 track playuh.
Well, at least I’m cracking someone up. :^)
The only reason they say "We are Christian" is an attempt to morph into something they are not and co-opt Christianity.
"What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world"
- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 270
"...all the priests who adhere to the sectarian religions of the day with all their followers, without one exception, receive their portion with the devil and his angels."
- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr. , The Elders Journal, v. 1, no. 4, p. 60
"With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world."
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p.
"Christiansthose poor, miserable priests brother Brigham was speaking aboutsome of them are the biggest whoremasters there are on the earth, and at the same time preaching righteousness to the children of men. The poor devils, they could not get up here and preach an oral discourse, to save themselves from hell; they are preaching their fathers' sermons preaching sermons that were written a hundred years before they were born. ...You may get a Methodist priest to pour water on you, or sprinkle it on you, and baptize you face foremost, or lay you down the other way, and whatever mode you please, and you will be damned with your priest.
- Apostle Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, v. 5, p. 89
"What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast."
- Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, v. 13, p. 225
"Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent."
- Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 255
"After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon."
- Apostle George Q. Cannon, Gospel Truth, p. 324
Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls.
- Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, see pp. 45-46
"I was answered that I must join none of them (Christian Churches), for they were all wrong...that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight" (Joseph Smith History 1:19).
"...orthodox Christian views of God are Pagan rather than Christian." (Mormon Doctrine of Deity by B.H. Roberts, p.116)
"...the God whom the 'Christians' worship is a being of their own creation..." (Apostle Charles W. Penrose, JD 23:243)
"The Christian world, so called, are heathens as to their knowledge of the salvation of God." (Brigham Young, JD 8:171)
"What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute best." (John Taylor, JD 13:225)
"What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing...Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God." (John Taylor, JI) 13:225)
"Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p.177)
"...brother Joseph B. Nobles once told a Methodist priest, after hearing him describe his god, that the god they worshiped was the "Mormon's" Devil-a being without a body, whereas our God has a body, parts and passions." (Brigham Young, JD 5:331)
"...the great apostate church as the anti-christ...This great antichrist...is the church of the devil." (Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine p.40)
"Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the "whore of Babylon" whom the lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness." (Pratt, The Seer, p.255)
God is not at its head, making that church [i.e., Christianity] following the appearance in it of Satan no longer the church of God. To say that Satan sits in the place of God in Christianity after the time of the apostles is not to say that all that is in it is Satanic.
- Kent P. Jackson, Early Signs of Apostasy, Ensign, December 1984, p. 9
1 Nephi 14:10 "Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of god, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth."
"Orthodox Christian views of God are pagan rather than Christian" (Mormon Doctrine of Deity, B. H. Roberts [General Authority], 116).
Brigham Young: and he that confesseth not that Jesus has come in the flesh and sent Joseph Smith with the fullness of the Gospel to this generation, is not of God, but is Antichrist. (Journal of Discourses, Vol 9 pg 312).
Mormon Apostle Hyrum M. Smith,- In fact, my brethren and sisters, if the falsity of a religion can be measured in any degree by the amount of trouble and turmoil and strife and bitterness and hatred that it has engendered in the hearts of men, if it can be judged by the number of wars it has carried on and the rivers of blood it has shed, the amount of misery and sorrow, it has caused, or the extremes of impurity, found among its adherents, then Christianity, that which is known as Christianity, is the falsest of all religions in the world The trouble is, as God declared to Joseph the Prophet, mankind have gone astray. Their religions are an abomination in his sight, and their professors are corrupt because they have turned away from the truth and have turned unto fables. (Conference Report, October 1916, p.43).
The plaque above is found in Temple Square with Joseph Smith a top it.
Do the Latter Day Saints corporately and collectively believe this and support that view point? Of course they do. Otherwise, if there is no resurrected church then there is no LDS.
But everyone outside their group is "Anti-Mormon"? LOL They are Anti-Christian and seek not only to undermine Christianity and their beliefs but outright work to subordinate one man to another, in that one must accept the Prophets words as sacrosanct and inviolable.
No man pays fealty to another as their superior because thier so called god ordains it.
I’m still workin’ on smoke signals and bangin’ on cowhide with a blunt object.
Excellent post (#67). Clear and concise.
Is Romney even considered by the mother LDS church to be a particularly solid Mormon? I get the idea that there are a lot of other Mormons out there who would run rings around Romney vis a vis conservative “values.” But none of those Mormons are serious Republican candidates, so we conservatives can’t give any of them the nod as a presidential candidate.
I agree with you. His Mormonism is the least of my concern
He’s a car salesman, period.
His religion is irrelevant.
If LDS theology hypothetically were right (which I disagree strongly with, but just for sake of argument) then they would at least be self consistent in claiming to be “the only Christians.” Because who else “confesses” Joseph Smith to be a “prophet”? But they would not be self consistent in saying to evangelical and Roman Catholic churches, “we are one of you.” That would be logical balderdash because the latter churches (not to be confused with latter day saints) are not Smith confessors.
But it’s even worse, they have jettisoned stuff that they used to claim came from Smith when it proved a political embarrassment to the church — such as polygamy policies. Shouldn’t they be confessing the original Smith come hell or high water if they really believed what they say about him?
I don’t care that he’s a Mormon; I care that he’s a dishonest flake and closet statist.
He wont lose enough votes to make his religion matter.
I absolutely disagree. It will matter. My gut tells me that this is the most important election of my small children’s lives even though they can’t vote. If we are going to save our Republic we need a President who is willing to viciously fight and sway the American population to his/her vision. There is nothing in Romney’s background that shows him to be that person. He is not a firebrand conservative and Romneycare (his major legislative achievement) has been a failure just like every other governmentcentric solution fails.
Combine that opinion with the reality, right or wrong, that his brand of faith will become a major issue and cost votes. The media’s annointing of him (far too early in the process) tells me they agree with that assessment.
Respectfully, I won’t take that chance. I am not looking for a theological debate because we all enjoy God-given freewill to believe or not believe.
I did not understand the reference to Obama in your post and his election but I agree with your conclusion about folks living their lives.
I think the far left made a maximum effort for Obama who benefitted as much from political correctness, Bush fatigue, and a tepid GOP candidate as he did from his platform that was never really defined outside of hopey changey platitudes.
That won’t work for the GOP nominee. The margins are too slim and it’s foolish to ignore anything that accounts for even 5% or less of the popular vote. It will make a difference.
"The Marxism that exists in the White House right now is waaay more disturbing to me". "If we could replace that with Mormonism, I think thatd be a huge improvement..." No one can deny that
Yeah. And I wrote The Lord of the Rings trilogy.
Fantasy is fantasy.
Brigham Young had 57 children via his 56 wives.
Mormonism is based on the domination of women, much like Islam.
Men of consequence and worth want new pretty women as their prior(s) age. Instead of divorcing them, they basically keep them on as maids.
A sad twist on “cheaper to keep her”
“Fantasy is fantasy.”
Not that there’s anything wrong with that. ;)
But I do agree with you—keep the fantasy in fantasy-land. Jesus didn’t even write the New Testament—divinely inspired men of God did. The idea that Jesus wrote the Book of Mormon is indeed fantasy, and of the dangerous kind. To anyone who believes Joseph Smith was a divine prophet, I recommend Mormonism, Momma and Me. It’s an eye-popper.
About 105 % better than the current Muslim president!
And if you believe that, I have a fine bridge to sell you.
Its a non issue with me as well but it will come up only after he is nominated. He will be slamed about it.
Well said. Anyone who can be drawn into religious deception, cannot be expected to keep a clear head about world leaders, war, and the important things a President has to deal with.
If they are not the restored church and “The One True Religion” then there is no foundation for their existence.
Hence they say “We are Christian”. Never “We are Christians too”.
When they say “We are Christian” it is exclusionary, elitist and objectified.
They railed against Christianity for 150 years and now they want to be Christian?
“Worthy and well Qualified”.
Gee, sounds familiar.
Thank you, Senator! ;-)
You’re the twisted one, becuase I was raised in the same Mormon cult as tarotsailor.
Mormons teach “lyin’ fer the lard,” and we see it here on FR all the time....
Contrast Romney with Palin. For example, she declares her support openly, and early, for other candidates, whereas the Mitt sits around waiting for the wind to blow. She declares her positions quickly, cleverly, and decisively with great one-liners that cut to the heart of our opponents' misguided issues.
Romney is nowhere as smart, or as quick as Sarah. Let's face it, he's a plodding, stunned slug of the old school thinking. Aren't we trying to rid the world of these geezer-elites?
I hear you (and thank you for the overview).
Insofar as Romney is concerned, if he was a Reaganesque conservative, I’d support him to the “n”-th degree; Mormon or not.
The fact that he’s a liberal is why I don’t like him.
They need to give it a rest. I don’t care!
A gay buddhist vegetarian with a crooked smile and a bad haircut(*) would get my vote over Obama, so long as he’s not a marxist big spender.
(*) but my money’s on Gov Goodhair aka Perry
This sums it up for me after doing my own research on Romney. I do think he is a smart businessman with some good ideas but he DOES NOT seem to be absolutely committed to conservatism based on his record.”
You are correct.
He’s smart, a great executive, and would make a damned sight better President than Obama. All the harping on Romney, both fair and unfair, simply boils down to him not being a conservative at his core.
Still, his positions and agenda are mainstream Republican and he’s running against a marxist disaster. America cannot afford another 4 years of Obama, and it would be a grave mistake to throw the election should he be the nominee. IMHO, he wont be; he’s a dead frontrunner walking, cant crack 20% support even without any big name in field. Perry will win the nomination should he run. Let’s nominate a real conservative this time - whoever we nominate can win if they run on jobs, economy, and fiscal sanity.
+1 (and about 300,000 other Freepers)
“Joseph Smiths life was threatened dozens of times by evil men long before he was actually killed.”
Joseph Smith was an evil man of the highest magnitude - he was a horrible liar that has deceived so many. If his life was threatened it goes with the territory; evil begets evil. He is currently burning in Hell, something he has deceived so many to follow him there. Forsake Mormonism and seek out real Christianity while you can. Please don’t be a fool and put you trust in falsehoods.
If Cain, DeMint, Palin, or Bachmann were Mormon, I’d be praying for a Mormon president. With Romney and Reid, two liberals, as the most prominent Mormons, an LDS president would be pretty bad. No, thank you. I’ll take patriotic instead.
“How Bad Could A Mormon President Be?”
We will never find out....if that Mormon is Romney.
He is a man without convictions, without courage and without conscience.
He is a baby killer-—like Obama. Any other questions?
Would everyone have to wear magic underwear?
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