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London riots: live
The Telegraph ^ | 08/09/11 | various

Posted on 08/08/2011 6:26:54 PM PDT by dep

Rolling coverage of the third night of violent disturbances in London, with arson and looting reported at several locations across the capital.

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: anarchy; arson; blacks; capital; civilunrest; destruction; disturbances; london; looting; minorities; riot; riots; socialism; violent; yutes
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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To: FreedomPoster
This is perhaps the dumbest statement ever made by a top law enforcement official in the face of riots, arson, looting, and general lawlessness.

I saw that video, and many others. Politicians running out in safe places and say they're going to stop it, going to do this, going to do that, blah, blah, blah. It seems hopeless for the authorities. They only want to try certain things, like call the looters names, and educate them that it's against the law. It's so pathetic that the brits only hope is that the rioters decide themselves to just stop, that, or when everything they want to steal, or the buildings they want to burn down, are gone. What a pitiful country britian has become due to the socialist morons. It's so sad. The still sane brits need to form a party and a very powerful movement, and beat them back, or all hope is lost.
251 posted on 08/09/2011 9:34:55 AM PDT by ZX12R (FUBO GTFO 2012 !)
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To: EnglishCon

Again, good luck to you guys and be safe. I’d be packing long edged weapons, too, given that firearms aren’t a choice. I’m reminded of the S.M. Stirling Dies the Fire speculative fiction series. They were into edged weapons and such as well.


252 posted on 08/09/2011 9:36:06 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: SaraJohnson

Sara, get a clue. Anyone paying attention to this story knows the riots were started by Afro-Caribbean blacks, and chav/thug/anarchist whites jumped on the bandwagon. If anything, the UK Muslims have been a force for order. Which isn’t to say that don’t create their own problems, just that this story isn’t one of them.


253 posted on 08/09/2011 9:39:56 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: Niuhuru
Brits get real - deal with riot losers. Pandering makes it worse.

Are Brits afraid of being called names by the PC/MSM press? More afraid than watching their cities burn?

Sticks and stones may break my bones but words but words will never harm me... Hey Brits - man up.

254 posted on 08/09/2011 9:48:29 AM PDT by GOPJ (The end of our great nation - caused by 'give it all away' dems. May dems reap what they sown...)
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To: FreedomPoster

Gotta agree with that.
Our main local shop is run by a Muslim family, who are also good friends and hugely active in the community, including church fundraising and church groups. It’s just that sort of area. The Catholics support and raise money for the mosque to send kids to the seaside for a holiday too. We look out for each other. That is what a community does.
And they have been a focal point for the entire community defence effort.

I know talking in defense of Muslims risks me getting asked for the zot by some of the more zealous members here - but this is not a religious thing.
This is jackals and scum against people who believe in working, paying taxes (ok, fairly grudgingly) and doing the best for their community they possibly can. Being a part of and supporting the community.
Scum who believe that they don’t need to work for what they want, but can just take it need not apply here. Scum who view a community as prey.

So please. I ask respectfully - don’t paint them all with the same brush. Just this once.


255 posted on 08/09/2011 9:57:38 AM PDT by EnglishCon
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To: SaraJohnson

Oh ffs!.

The black youth rioting arent Muslim!. They are black kids from the Afro-Caribbean community whose ancestors arrived in the late 40’s/early 50’s (1948 onwards to be exact).

The knowledge here on FR of Britain is appalling.


256 posted on 08/09/2011 9:57:50 AM PDT by the scotsman (I)
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To: EnglishCon

Sad to see the old country in flames like this. Stay safe.

My great grandfather came from London.


257 posted on 08/09/2011 9:59:48 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: SaraJohnson
Get ready. What you see in London is planned for the US.

It will play out rather differently here, especially if it is allowed to spill out of the urban cores. American property owners are not defenseless, as the scum found out in L.A.'s Koreatown during the LA riots.

258 posted on 08/09/2011 10:00:33 AM PDT by jboot
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To: dep

Defiant Londoners armed with brooms and buckets rather than with bricks and baseball bats today tried to clean up streets after three nights of rioting only for some to run into opposition from health and safety officers.

Mobilised into a volunteer “clean-up” movement by calls on Twitter via @Riotcleanup, and by word of mouth among neighbours, hundreds of residents swept up broken glass from shattered shop windows and cleared away debris.

In Camden, Leanne Westbury, 25, said: “I was watching all through last night as my boyfriend was a police officer on duty. It was terrifying. He’s in bed now, deservedly, and I’m here because we want to take back our city. A friend saw people being beaten with poles in Great Portland Street last night. So heartbreaking.”

Paul Ratner, 27, stood in a smart suit with dustpan in hand. “Last night we saw the worst of London,” he saisd. “Today we’ll see the best.”

The man behind the response told The Times how he was motivated to mobilise an army of broom-wielding volunteers, creating the @RiotCleanup Twitter feed to organise willing helpers and amassing 70,000 followers in under 12 hours.

Amid the swelling crowds outside Clapham Junction station, Sam Duckworth, the musician behind the one-man-band Get Cape Wear Cape Fly, said: “Ideally we’d like to not be here cleaning up a riot. I think it’s mad. [The Twitter page] has just been aggregating everyone else’s feeds. It’s nice to have a central location as ... it has been confusing trying to find out where to go.

“People have come from all over London - there’s been lots of teams just worried about what might happen. It’s communities standing together and standing tall and taking a stand, saying that we’re not going to let this lie like this. “Hopefully we won’t be here tomorrow and the day after and the day after doing the same.”

Crowds also gathered on Chalk Farm Road in Camden, scene of mass confrontations last night between police and rioters, who smashed shopfronts and pub windows, brandishing metal poles in a standoff lasting until 2am.

With brooms, dustpans and bin-bags, the volunteers congregated outside Camden Town station after updates from Duckworth’s Twitter page.

Police warned the volunteers that forensic scientists would be busy for some time at the sight of a smashed O2 mobile phone shop, so they headed en masse to Clapham Junction, where help was being sought.

There, however, more than 200 volunteers waited behind barriers as firemen hosed down the burned-out shell of the Party Superstore shop. Litter and debris were strewn around as police asked the crowds not to invite any more friends to join the massing numbers of volunteers.

The operation had been expected to begin at 1pm after police dealt with the crime scene. But officers told the volunteers it had been decided that the council should do the work. Asked why, an officer replied: “Health and safety mainly. There’s lots of broken glass around.”

Other reports said however that some helpers were simply asked to wait while a building was secured because the Mayor of London, Boris Johnson, was on his way to visit the area.

Staff from the local Sainsbury’s handed out Danish pastries to the crowd, who erupted into applause for the firefighters as they finally switched off their hoses.

Twitter and Facebook, both used by the rioters to organise their mayhem, were becoming tools for residents to congregate in a show of solidarity and repair damage from London to Bristol.

Twitter led to a meeting outside the Clarence Road convenience store in Hackney, where three men covered in ash, broom in hand and bag of debris in the other, chatted outside the shop run for 11 years by a Sri Lankan immigrant, Sivaharan Kandriah. The shop was gutted and looted.

The three, one local, one from Bethnal Green, and the third from Walthamstow, learnt of the clean-up on Twitter and had not met before. Paul Wallis, from Bethnal Green, said: “It’s encouraging. It brings us together. To see strength of feeling come from different areas, it’s amazing.”
Rob Davidson from Walthamstow laughed: “Yeah, well it was this, or clean up my living room.”

From Walworth Road in southeast London Sammy Wu tweeted that he was equipped with gloves and a broom:. “Evry other window is smashed but streets r clean. Bustling w community workers volunteers.”

The Londonist website issued an appeal for city residents to revive the spirit of the Wombles, furry pointy-nosed stars of a 1970s BBC children’s television show who lived on Wimbledon Common and were famed for loving – and cleaning up – the environment. It said: “Wombles Needed: How to help with the Riot Cleanup.” A new Twitter account, @riotwombles, was set up to mobilise volunteers.

It said: “Basically, if your high street’s been hit, just head out and see what you can do.”
One volunteer, Gina Byrne, was eager to join and tweeted: “Large gathering of #riotwombles outside Clapham Junction Stn. Nothing to clean as of yet. Have never seen so many brooms in 1 place before!”

Celebrities also joined in, with the Kaiser Chiefs singer Ricky Wilson volunteering in Camden. The frontman tweeted that he would be on the street with a broom.

Emmy The Great was helping in the Westbourne Park area, tweeting : “If you live on Westbourne Park Rd… Could do with two people with dustpan and brush to clean up glass outside CP Hart bathrooms.”

A website was set up at www.riotcleanup.co.uk calling for residents to turn up with bin bags, gloves and duct tape as well as dustpans and brooms. It appeared to crash early in the morning but later resumed with a notice that read: “This is not about the riots. This is about the clean up – Londoners who care, coming together to engender a sense of community.”

The site provided a map and a list of locations where help was needed and gave times for volunteers to gather to help.


259 posted on 08/09/2011 10:01:25 AM PDT by the scotsman (I)
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To: the scotsman; FreedomPoster

Alright you politically correct “smart” guys who claim Muslims have nothing to do with the London riots. Google “Muslims London riots” and see what you get.

Here’s one:
http://muccings.blogspot.com/2011/08/rioters-in-londonwho-are-they.html

Denial is not a river in Egypt.


260 posted on 08/09/2011 10:27:48 AM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: the scotsman

Actually, I think it’s mostly a simple “wish” for it to be Moslem, because a) reports of how much trouble Moslems have caused in Britain, including the 7/7 attacks; b) it seems so much rioting in “Europe” lately has been Moslem (France); and c) general expectation of violence from Moslems. Yes, there is ignorance, but that’s the 1st thing people jump to here for general wanton violence. 2nd assumption is blacks (real blacks, not Indians) in our own cities when it comes to criminal-type (as opposed to war?) violence in the city.

The problem is when dealing with infidels, Moslems are usually going to surreptitiously attack on the sly to kill as many as possible at once for maximum efficiency, France’s riots aside. Their MO is different.

I wish you all the best - and hope you get rid of the scum in your midst.


261 posted on 08/09/2011 10:27:50 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: EnglishCon
My prayers for you and yours, EnglishCon!

May God place a shield of protection around you, and give you the peace that passes understanding!

262 posted on 08/09/2011 10:28:09 AM PDT by ohioWfan (Proud Mom of a Bronze Star winner!)
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To: SaraJohnson

Well done, you have just linked us to an AMERICAN blog. The blogger is from your country.

I am British, and I am TELLING you that the black youth are NOT Muslim. In fact, black and white gangs tried to attack a mosque last night, as posted here earlier today.

You havent a clue dear. Not a clue.


263 posted on 08/09/2011 10:30:39 AM PDT by the scotsman (I)
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To: the scotsman

Misplaced priorities. Rather than focus on the cleanup, stop the looters first. Neighborhoods need to defend themselves and hang a few looters at the entrances to deter the rest. Then they can clean up.


264 posted on 08/09/2011 10:32:53 AM PDT by Truth29
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To: Biggirl

“Any rioting would NOT last long because of Admendment # 2.”

I wouldn’t be so confident.

We may have the 2A, but you know the reality of it being circumvented.

Never mind the ENDLESS ninny laws about shooting people, or assaulting them. Must be attacking YOU directly, not *mere* property, must not be running away, all that Total @%$!#@$!@$ BS. Many people won’t use their guns just because of what they think might happen to them AFTER the riot is finally over.

Do you remember the ‘68 riots? They destroyed our cities, forever. Laws were generally LOOSER then, and still a giant outrage (”disrespect”?) amongst blacks instigated their rampage over whole cities in a short time, regardless of allowing guns (yes, my dad brought his hunting guns over to my grandparents’ house so they could protect themselves at the outskirts of Baltimore).

Think of all the out-of-control “collegiate” scum who riot after every basketball game these days, when they WIN. The police don’t shoot them and no-one else does, either, though they loot and pillage. The police might use tasers, or nightsticks, but mostly, they do NEXT TO NOTHING about this.

Don’t be naive about how our country has hamstrung itself with all kinds of asinine laws, and the attitude that goes with it.


265 posted on 08/09/2011 10:37:33 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: dep

QUESTION: Are the rioters in Britain more Islamic types, or more black types, or are they native white British? I assume they are NOT from colonies such as India or Hong Kong.


266 posted on 08/09/2011 10:43:47 AM PDT by 2harddrive
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To: dep

QUESTION: Are the rioters in Britain more Islamic types, or more black types, or are they native white British? I assume they are NOT from colonies such as India or Hong Kong.


267 posted on 08/09/2011 10:44:10 AM PDT by 2harddrive
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To: SaraJohnson; EnglishCon

I’m as far from PC as it gets.

Go look at the whole of the reporting, including the videos, and get back to us. Also see EnglishCon’s post #255. He’s on the damn scene, in the front line trenches.

You’re barking up the wrong tree. Also arguing a straw man, as no one has said no Muslims were involved, as you claim, just that they aren’t the prime source of the problem. And a single idiot blog post isn’t much to hang your hat on. Very few blacks in the UK are from Muslim countries.


268 posted on 08/09/2011 10:50:01 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: 2harddrive

See the posts in this thread starting with my #253. EnglishCon is on the scene in a place where he’s in a neighborhood watch that has chased off some scum.

Sorry for the FReepmail, meant for that reply to be public, hit the wrong link and didn’t notice until I posted.


269 posted on 08/09/2011 10:54:33 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: 2harddrive

They are scum sucking, entitled POS who thing that them wanting things is enough reason to steal it and destroy people’s lives.
Many are black. We have a lot, and yeah, they do get the sh*tty end of the stick a lot. A lot are white drop outs. Maybe 1% are muslim. (OK, this is from watching TV and the actual rioters, not a formal survey.)


270 posted on 08/09/2011 10:56:12 AM PDT by EnglishCon
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To: EnglishCon
Who basically said, as long as they are breathing unaided when we hand them over - no questions will be asked. Was just confirmed on the news by a Scotland Yard representative.

I always knew when it came down to it, the Brits would pull through. Godspeed.

271 posted on 08/09/2011 10:58:03 AM PDT by nina0113
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To: the OlLine Rebel

I am not speaking about the cities though, but those Americans who STILL DO HONOR that 2nd Amendment and there are MANY out there who still take it very serious.

The cities are another matter though. What is going on in London is a direct warning about gun bans in regards to the American cities.


272 posted on 08/09/2011 10:59:23 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: the scotsman

I am telling you that African and Arab (”Asian”) youth in London are Muslims. You can say that there are also Black youth from the Carrabian rioting and that would also be true. But one does not preclude the other.

Why are your panties in such a wad? Are you denying that Muslims have anything to do with the London riots? Let’s see your sources that claim Muslims have nothing to do with these riots. Hint, hint - who is coordinating the riots on the black berries?

Your emotions are understandable given this is so serious and destructive. I am truly sorry London is going through this. But attacking Americans as if this somehow makes you feel better this morning is not really going to help with the problems you face. Americans read a lot about Britian and we are able to surmise the population make up of London. We are familiar with European multiculturalism and we know how it is used to abuse native Brits. You are on an American web site so if you don’t want to hear Americans comment on the riots, go to a British web site where you don’t have to hear Americans.


273 posted on 08/09/2011 11:03:14 AM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: the scotsman
A website was set up at www.riotcleanup.co.uk calling for residents to turn up with bin bags, gloves and duct tape as well as dustpans and brooms. It appeared to crash early in the morning but later resumed with a notice that read: “This is not about the riots. This is about the clean up – Londoners who care, coming together to engender a sense of community.”

I trust there'll be no nonsense about wrongful binning. I can't remember the exact phrase "_______ tipping"?

274 posted on 08/09/2011 11:03:32 AM PDT by nina0113
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To: FreedomPoster
You are right that most of the blacks in England are not from Arabia. They are from Africa and from the Caribbean. Most of the Africans from Africa are Muslims. And color me shocked that the BBC is not covering the fact that Muslims are involved in these riots. That must mean Muslims having nothing to do with these riots or surely the London press would tell us so! Do some google searches and read about riots in London - both the history and the current one.
275 posted on 08/09/2011 11:09:11 AM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: SaraJohnson

Sara, you are being an insufferable jerk, and living up to the definition of “Ugly American.”


276 posted on 08/09/2011 11:13:40 AM PDT by buccaneer81 (ECOMCON)
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To: SkyPilot

Jeez, they even torched the bicycle.


277 posted on 08/09/2011 11:16:43 AM PDT by Yardstick
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To: SatinDoll

I didn’t find the specific source you mentioned, but I found all kinds of OTHER related material.

And after reading it, none of this is surprising. Can’t wait until we have OUR turn....

That last bit was sarcasm, by the way. I mean, I’m sure we’ll have our round, but I hope against hope we don’t.


278 posted on 08/09/2011 11:20:04 AM PDT by HushTX (I make libs rage quit.)
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To: dep

279 posted on 08/09/2011 11:25:51 AM PDT by Minus_The_Bear
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To: EnglishCon

Good for you!!!

While we don’t trust our government to do the right thing and support you guys, know what we the people do. We’re seeing the beginnings of this in some of our bigger cities and know that what we see happen to you is often our future.

Prayers up to protect you and defeat this evil and confound their plans.


280 posted on 08/09/2011 11:28:24 AM PDT by metmom (Be the kind of woman that when you wake in the morning, the devil says, "Oh crap, she's UP !!")
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To: 2harddrive

It is more than one ethnicity. It would be wrong to blame any one group but it would probably be accurate to say the majority are black youths of african origin.....parents that moved to the UK decades ago.

Mixed in with that you have what we in the UK call Chavz, basically scummy (often lower class) idiots that don’t work and are often involved in trouble.

I suspect that as it goes on some larger gangs will exploit the situation......

Basically what you have now is every low life scum bag piece of crap banding together to flame the capital with chaos and then steal and attack from innocent people. I mean people were literally ordered to strip in order for their clothes to be stolen......thats bloody madness.

This isn’t a racially motivated incident (although if places like the Midlands, Luton for example kick off it could descend into something far far more severe), the racial significance to this is minor as it stands, it is a simple class issue and it just happens that many of them lower classes in London are black. (a story in itself I suppose)

...reports of trouble in the Midlands and even the north....Manchester at the moment. It is spreading it would seem, and the most worrying part of this is that it could become a new ‘fad’....the phrase ‘recreational rioting’ is being used and it’s a fad with the economy in crisis we could do without.......


281 posted on 08/09/2011 11:52:18 AM PDT by UKrepublican
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To: UKrepublican

It’s pretty clear at this point, that the common elements among the rioters, is opportunism, criminality, and thuggery. Not race, politics or poverty.


282 posted on 08/09/2011 11:57:41 AM PDT by ZX12R (FUBO GTFO 2012 !)
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To: UKrepublican
Sales of aluminum bats on Amazon.UK are up over 5000% as the riots continue.

Golf clubs and fire pokers also make good weapons in a pinch.
283 posted on 08/09/2011 12:09:44 PM PDT by Girlene
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To: dep

Large groups of young men have gathered outside two pubs in Eltham (South London), to ‘protect’ their pub and their area. Rumours are that it’s Millwall and Charlton fans (Charlton’s game was cancelled tonight because of the riots), who have teamed up to make sure that Eltham remains intact. Picture here;

http://yfrog.com/h8xjzmzj


284 posted on 08/09/2011 12:22:12 PM PDT by the scotsman (I)
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To: ZX12R

The issue is a matter “culture” (like MRSA) not race...


285 posted on 08/09/2011 12:37:24 PM PDT by Little Ray (Best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: SaraJohnson

Muslims - Turkish Kurds, I think - are doing a pretty good job suppressing the riots in “their” areas.


286 posted on 08/09/2011 12:39:24 PM PDT by Little Ray (Best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: FreedomPoster

How the mighty have fallen in once-great Britain.


287 posted on 08/09/2011 12:44:15 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: EnglishCon

Regardless of religion or ethnicity, if you obey the law you are to be respected. If you engage in mob behavior you are a scum sucker who deserves to be shot. The End.


288 posted on 08/09/2011 12:55:15 PM PDT by JPG (Yes She Can!)
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To: SaraJohnson

You dumb cluck. Shut up and get your ass out of this thread.


289 posted on 08/09/2011 1:38:33 PM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: All
2130 .. will the zombies torch London again tonight ?

For anyone who missed it, here's a live feed from LBC radio in London,
doing live call-ins throughout the night from folks in the effected areas.

*kudos to FReeper ArmstedFragg for the link

290 posted on 08/09/2011 1:45:19 PM PDT by tomkat (Sarah '12)
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To: dep
Football fans are out on the streets tonight defending their areas. Notice the lack of hoods and masks.
291 posted on 08/09/2011 1:54:41 PM PDT by Stolly
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To: dep
Londoners have been out in force today cleaning up the mess caused by the scum. This is the real London, not the looters.
292 posted on 08/09/2011 1:57:59 PM PDT by Stolly
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To: Biggirl

But gun bans don’t have such a huge effect on our cities, when you can get them outside.

The point is, we have ample historical evidence that having the 2A isn’t enough to control rioting, even back a few years. People need to act on it - and some won’t, exactly because of nInny-state “innocent-till-guilty” “dont-shoot-till-they-kill-your-kid” rules and attitudes.


293 posted on 08/09/2011 2:01:16 PM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: Moltke; dep
(Sorry about the empty post #242 - guess IMDB does not like links to their images. 2nd attempt, then. A few Harry Browns is what Britain might need right now.)


294 posted on 08/09/2011 2:04:42 PM PDT by Moltke (Always retaliate first.)
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To: Moltke

If anyone would like a view of what’s going on in Birmingham, this is a stream of one of the local asian TV channels. Compelling viewing!
http://www.justin.tv/sangattelevision#/w/1595016032/2


295 posted on 08/09/2011 2:11:08 PM PDT by Mitch86
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To: Mitch86

The Sikhs are kicking arse! God bless ‘em


296 posted on 08/09/2011 2:14:21 PM PDT by Mitch86
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To: SaraJohnson

You’re acting like a conspirator.

Saying most of the Africans (black) in the riots are Moslem is like all the liberals desperately saying Timmy McVeigh was Christian - it is a non-sequitur. It’s a coincidence and really has nothing to do with the crime.

Let it go. If it really is true there was primarily Moslem influence, it’ll come out. Right now, it just looks like low-life lazy leftist scum thinking they’re owed something, as many of our riots have been.


297 posted on 08/09/2011 2:15:15 PM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: Stolly

Great pics, Stolly .. thanks !


298 posted on 08/09/2011 2:27:43 PM PDT by tomkat (Sarah '12)
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To: Mitch86

More photos here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2024203/UK-riots-flare-Manchester-Birmingham-London-s-FOURTH-night-violence.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

# Fresh violence flares tonight in Birmingham, Wolverhampton, West Bromwich, Manchester and Salford
# 16,000 officers on London’s streets to control violence
# Tense situation with yobs and riot police in Canning Town, east London
# Capital is on lockdown as shopkeepers boarded up businesses early to protect them
# Pubs, businesses and schools sent workers home early
# Prime Minister David Cameron will recall Parliament on Thursday


299 posted on 08/09/2011 2:34:20 PM PDT by Deo volente (God willing, America will survive this Obamination.)
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To: KTM rider

“I’m not for anarchy but our 2nd amendment was designed to allow us to resist government tyranny [/philosophical rant] “

Agreed. I hope that it never comes to that - it will be messy. I think our American Revolution was a rarity. And while what is going on in London seems more like “youts” having “fun” - how will an actual revolution look different? And what will we stand for (or against)?


300 posted on 08/09/2011 2:39:22 PM PDT by 21twelve (Obama Recreating the New Deal: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2185147/posts)
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