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London riots: 'People are fighting back. It's their neighbourhoods at stake'
The Guardian ^ | Wednesday 10 August 2011 | Peter Beaumont, Jasmine Coleman and Sandra Laville

Posted on 08/10/2011 6:44:31 AM PDT by The Bronze Titan

When the rioters came to attack the premises of Kurdish and Turkish businesses in Hackney's Stoke Newington High Street and Kingsland Road on Monday night, the owners were waiting for them. "It was between about nine and 10 at night," said Yilmaz Karagoz, sitting in his coffee shop next to a jeweller's shop that has been shuttered since Sunday when the rioting began and a pharmacy that closed a day after. "There were a lot of them. We came out of our shops but the police asked us to do nothing. But the police did not do anything so, as more came, we chased them off ourselves." ... read more

(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: londonriots
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HERE IS THE MAJOR LESSON (this country better be prepared):

Karagoz tried to explain another feature of these riots – why Turkish and Kurdish youths had generally not joined the looting.

- "We have businesses and work hard for what we have. As parents we want our children to work, earn money and be able to buy what they want, not steal it. Our young people know we would be ashamed of them if they were doing this."

1 posted on 08/10/2011 6:44:37 AM PDT by The Bronze Titan
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To: The Bronze Titan

Reminds me of the Korean shop owners with guns waiting for rioters in Los Angeles.

When it really goes down, cops run the other direction.

Amazon UK baseball bat sales are up 50,000%...


2 posted on 08/10/2011 6:46:28 AM PDT by TigerClaws
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To: The Bronze Titan

You mean, raising your kids to honor hard work and respect the rule of law ACTUALLY WORKS?!?!?

I’m SHOCKED! SHOCKED!

/sarc


3 posted on 08/10/2011 6:46:32 AM PDT by Thane_Banquo
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To: The Bronze Titan
we chased them off ourselves

Hooray!

4 posted on 08/10/2011 6:47:38 AM PDT by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: The Bronze Titan
' the police asked us to do nothing'

I think I recognize a big part of the problem.

5 posted on 08/10/2011 6:47:45 AM PDT by JPG (Yes She Can!)
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To: The Bronze Titan; All

The Second Coming
by Wm Yeats

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in the sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

1920


6 posted on 08/10/2011 6:48:42 AM PDT by silverleaf (All that is necessary for evil to succeed, is that good men do nothing)
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To: The Bronze Titan

They haven’t been fed the lies that white people or joooooooos took from them or owe them anything.


7 posted on 08/10/2011 6:49:31 AM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: The Bronze Titan
What! The concept of self-defense is still alive in Britain?

Heads will roll for this!

8 posted on 08/10/2011 6:49:43 AM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all -- Texas Eagle)
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To: TigerClaws

Yeah the cops are just good at ganging up on single perps and making a report.


9 posted on 08/10/2011 6:50:27 AM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: The Bronze Titan

Hopefully, the Second Amendment will help decent people keep this kind of commie crap under control once it begins here. Thank God and the Founding Fathers for the Second Amendment.


10 posted on 08/10/2011 6:51:16 AM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (Americans need to wean their government off of its dependence on foreign money.)
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To: The Bronze Titan

They sound like Americans!


11 posted on 08/10/2011 6:51:45 AM PDT by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - they want to die for islam and we want to kill them)
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To: The Bronze Titan

Listen up America!!!!


12 posted on 08/10/2011 6:56:05 AM PDT by SMARTY (A claim for equality of material position can be met only by a government with totalitarian powers.)
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To: The Bronze Titan
the police asked us to do nothing

Doesn't surprise me. In the UK, you're also told you should simply flee if your home is invaded.

I say... HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLL No!!!

13 posted on 08/10/2011 6:56:58 AM PDT by ScottinVA (As a party that gives Obama what he wants, what again is the GOP`s 2012 selling point?)
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To: Texas Eagle
Here you have the official view of the ruling class, right from the article:

But a 23-year-old council worker, who had just been evacuated from Hackney town hall due to fears of further rioting, said he was concerned tensions between communities could increase.

"It is just going to make matters worse. I would hate to see this turn into a generational or racial battle."

It may not be as nuanced and polished as an official ruling class document would have read, but the guy is 23 years old, so give him a break.

Defending your property is only going to make matters worse and could lead to racial and generational conflict.

Things will be better if you just let the "youths" have their way. Got it? < / sarcasm >

14 posted on 08/10/2011 6:58:07 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: The Bronze Titan
Interestingly this is how feudalism replaced the Roman Empire. When the government could no longer protect the towns against the raiders, the locals started building walls and setting up militias. After a while they realized that they could not only stand off the raiders, but the tax collectors as well. Maintaining roads became a liability to the locals, as it just let the tax payers and raiders move faster. So the roads were allowed to fall to ruin.

We are coming into a new dark age. Not exactly like the last one. But as central governments can no longer provide the goodies you will see more and more local strongmen ignoring increasingly impotent central authority. It might take the form of sanctuary cities for the leftists, or rejections of Obamacare on the right. But in either case the message is clear. Locals standing at the border raising a one finger salute to the central government.
15 posted on 08/10/2011 6:58:13 AM PDT by GonzoGOP (There are millions of paranoid people in the world and they are all out to get me.)
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To: The Bronze Titan
But the police did not do anything so, as more came, we chased them off ourselves."

Like any pack of feral, knuckledragging animals -- they'll tuck tail, screech in terror and bound away when challenged.

16 posted on 08/10/2011 6:58:45 AM PDT by ScottinVA (As a party that gives Obama what he wants, what again is the GOP`s 2012 selling point?)
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To: The Bronze Titan

I’ve been watching the BBC.I’ve seen the deputy prime minster run out of a neighborhood by shop owners.The same with that A-hole mayor of London.


17 posted on 08/10/2011 6:59:50 AM PDT by Dr. Ursus
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To: TigerClaws
Amazon UK baseball bat sales are up 50,000%

Cause that's all they can use in the UK... but the perps are well armed, I bet.

18 posted on 08/10/2011 7:00:52 AM PDT by grobdriver (Proud Member, Party Of No! No Socialism - No Fascism - Nobama - No Way!)
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To: Vigilanteman
"It is just going to make matters worse. I would hate to see this turn into a generational or racial battle."

Too late. By its very nature, Socialism is a generational curse.

As Lady Thatcher once said, "The problem with Socialism is that, eventually, you run out of other people's money."

The racial component is added in simply as a diversion. Socialism cannot survive without scapegoats.

19 posted on 08/10/2011 7:03:16 AM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all -- Texas Eagle)
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To: The Bronze Titan

THANK-YOU for making morning, day!


20 posted on 08/10/2011 7:04:47 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: The Bronze Titan
The staff from a local kebab restaurant ran at the attackers, doner knives in their hands. "I don't think they will be coming back," Karagoz said.


21 posted on 08/10/2011 7:07:00 AM PDT by Leroy S. Mort (Fiat justitia ruat caelum)
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To: Texas Eagle

Lady Thatcher was more of a man than some of those ...


22 posted on 08/10/2011 7:09:25 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: TigerClaws

Not surprised about the UK police turning in the other direction. They are NOT like the American Police SWAT teams in the USA. But then, they are fomer, the SWAT teams, military folks.


23 posted on 08/10/2011 7:12:48 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: The Bronze Titan

Something I’ve wondered about and haven’t seen discussed is the London Cameras. A few years ago London installed cameras everwhere. What good are they? Are the tapes going to be reviewed and will the rioters be brought to justice? Or are they merely for observation for other purposes?


24 posted on 08/10/2011 7:16:41 AM PDT by AD from SpringBay (We deserve the government we allow.)
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To: Tennessee Nana

You got it!

Lady Thatcher had MORE CROWN JEWELS than the current UK PM.


25 posted on 08/10/2011 7:16:51 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: The Bronze Titan

My neighbor’s car got stole last night right out of his driveway
We heard the dog ‘a barking, we never paid them any mind
And Mary says she’s gonna lock the door from now on when we go away
I’ve been walking around this farm wondering if it’s time

Time to get a gun, that’s what I been thinkin’
I could afford one if I did just a little less drinkin’
Time to put something between me and the sun
When the talking is over it’s time to get a gun

Last week a government man was there when I walked out of my back door
He said “I’m sorry to bother you ma’am” it don’t matter anymore
‘Cause even while we’re talking right here where we stand
They’re making plans for a four-lane highway and a big ole overpass

Time to get a gun, that’s what I been thinkin’
I could afford one if I did just a little less drinkin’
Time to put something between me and the sun
When the talking is over it’s time to get a gun

Mary says she’s worried about herself and her kids
She’s never known anybody had a gun and her daddy never did
Well I think it should be up to me ‘cause when it’s all said and done
Somebodys gotta walk into the crowd and I wanna be that one

Time to get a gun, that’s what I been thinkin’
I could afford one if I did just a little less drinkin’
Time to put something between me and the sun
When the talking is over it’s time to get a gun


26 posted on 08/10/2011 7:20:24 AM PDT by wyowolf
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To: GonzoGOP

....Or the creation of new seperate city states.


27 posted on 08/10/2011 7:21:19 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: The Bronze Titan

Hear, hear!

Kudos to the Turks/Kurds for not allowing themselves to be intimidated by a pack of feral animals, and even more so, for not heeding the stupid advice of the ruling class.

Hopefully, the British can learn a lesson from these folks; grow a damn spine, and stand up for what’s right.

Oh, and raise your kids right. A little sense of honor and propriety never killed anyone.


28 posted on 08/10/2011 7:23:29 AM PDT by AnAmericanAbroad (It's all bread and circuses for the future prey of the Morlocks.)
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To: Texas Eagle

The thugs committed all that mayhem without using guns? Gotta start banning pipes and baseball bats.


29 posted on 08/10/2011 7:23:45 AM PDT by Socon-Econ (Socon-Econ)
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To: Biggirl

Hmmm. I wonder if the anti-”jack booted thug” contingent will be a bit more temperate in their thoughts about US cops now?


30 posted on 08/10/2011 7:26:24 AM PDT by Little Ray (Best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: Dr. Ursus

I saw Boris being yelled at by an articulate (and very attractive!) young owner of a hair salon. As always, Boris’ hair looked more upset than he did. I was really on that gal’s side. She gave it to him good. Luckily, I think only her window was broken.


31 posted on 08/10/2011 7:32:12 AM PDT by miss marmelstein (Run, Sarah, Run! Please!)
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To: Little Ray

The cop hating libertarians here at FR will learn to be more temperate when the thugs come after them.


32 posted on 08/10/2011 7:32:42 AM PDT by Socon-Econ (Socon-Econ)
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To: Little Ray
Major riot control duty is an entirely appropriate role for cops decked out in military-style gear. Serving no-knock warrants on sleeping suspects, not so much.

Let's try to keep things in proper perspective, hmm?

33 posted on 08/10/2011 7:37:30 AM PDT by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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To: The Bronze Titan
"I'm scared that the police and the government will attack us if we defend our businesses. "We are being squeezed between the two."

Know your enemy.

34 posted on 08/10/2011 7:39:21 AM PDT by skeeter
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To: The Bronze Titan
"I'm scared that the police and the government will attack us if we defend our businesses.

"We are being squeezed between the two."

35 posted on 08/10/2011 7:39:47 AM PDT by skeeter
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To: The Bronze Titan
My daughter lives outside of London, but has a co-worker with a son who lives in a Turkish neighborhood in London. She confirmed that in his neighborhood, the Turkish immigrants took cricket bats and attacked the rioters who entered the neighborhood intent on looting and burning, who immediately fled. Then, the reporters maligned those who so bravely defended their neighborhood and families, as violence-loving thugs.
36 posted on 08/10/2011 7:46:13 AM PDT by Red Boots
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To: Socon-Econ
The cop hating libertarians here at FR will learn to be more temperate when the thugs come after them.

Paint with a broad brush often?

How does that work out for you?

37 posted on 08/10/2011 7:46:37 AM PDT by Zeppo ("Happy Pony is on - and I'm NOT missing Happy Pony")
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To: The Bronze Titan
This sounds like there are some of the WWII stiff upper lip “business as usual Brits left!
Good for them! These are the people that made Great Britain great!

If the police won't do anything to the looters, they better not DARE to stop the honest citizens from doing their job for them.

38 posted on 08/10/2011 7:49:54 AM PDT by PATRIOT1876 (The only crimes that are 100% preventable are crimes committed by illegal aliens)
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To: The Bronze Titan

Some young female BBC twit last night interviewed a Sikh who was standing with a large group of men defending their temple with clubs. She wanted to know why they didn’t rely on the police for protection and instead were behaving like VIGILANTES. Maybe the men had noticed the police weren’t on the streets with H&K MP5 sub-machine guns as they had been for Will and Kate’s wedding in London???

In the 1945 election after WWII, Winston Churchill lost the election to Clement Attlee. Attlee’s Labor Party promised full employment, a tax funded universal National Health Service and a cradle-to-grave welfare state. It has taken awhile to get to the “reaping” part of the Bible Proverb.


39 posted on 08/10/2011 7:52:40 AM PDT by KyGeezer
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To: Socon-Econ

Not in my case.

In passed times I designed M16 sights. They had to be tested (yes, with full automatic fire) and were, at my home (we’ve 25 acres or so, and since I practice here, we also maintain a berm).

I stopped and notified the local police of the planned event, which wasn’t a problem. But what happened was that the boss was late by a day.

We fired roughly 2000 rounds, all in full auto, and had no police response at all.

I’d rather have an M16, but I’ll live with our AR’s long before I count on the cops. After all, their job is to write up the reports, while mine is to protect my wife and home. And there really isn’t any backup supporting me.


40 posted on 08/10/2011 7:55:47 AM PDT by benewton
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To: Zeppo

Frank Rizzo, former Philadelphia police chief and mayor: “A conservative is a liberal who has been mugged.”


41 posted on 08/10/2011 7:57:22 AM PDT by Socon-Econ (Socon-Econ)
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To: The Bronze Titan
I am heartened by accounts of people standing up for themselves.
I am angry at libs who whine things are getting out of control.
It's been out of control for days and NOW they are worried?
It's disturbing that we can not rely on the cops to see the difference
between thugs running down the street and people guarding their property.

42 posted on 08/10/2011 8:00:10 AM PDT by BitWielder1 (Corporate Profits are better than Government Waste)
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To: Leroy S. Mort

in normal times the UK police would have these shopowners and cooks arrested in a second. maybe they still will, self-defense is a serious crime.


43 posted on 08/10/2011 8:01:48 AM PDT by WoofDog123
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To: The Bronze Titan
Believe it or not, self-defense has happened before, in this country. Back in the ‘60s when there were race riots in Trenton, the co-owners camped out in their store overnight with shotguns. When the looters broke in, they were greeted with shotgun discharges. Killed two of the animals.
44 posted on 08/10/2011 8:06:43 AM PDT by chimera
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To: Red Boots

if any looters are actually hurt, it is very possible the govt will go out of its way to arrest and charge the defenders.


45 posted on 08/10/2011 8:07:20 AM PDT by WoofDog123
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To: Socon-Econ
The cop hating libertarians here at FR will learn to be more temperate when the thugs come after them.

Ignorance on parade!

And I'm not even a "cop hating libertarian".

You apparently know nothing of Freepers.

They own guns precisely for the reason you posit.
46 posted on 08/10/2011 8:08:09 AM PDT by SoConPubbie
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To: Charles Martel

Right now, what the UK needs a whole passel of “jack-booted thugs.” I wish we could send ‘em the cops from some of our, ummm, more “excessive” police departments. Say the entire LA police Rampart department and the entire LA anti-gang division...
I bet they’d kick some sense into these rioters in no time flat.


47 posted on 08/10/2011 8:08:10 AM PDT by Little Ray (Best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: BitWielder1

I am angry about cops who told them to “do nothing” and that they couldn’t use their utensils outside their shops.


48 posted on 08/10/2011 8:11:02 AM PDT by Little Ray (Best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: Socon-Econ
The cop hating libertarians here at FR will learn..

Damn right!! We don't need, or want their kind around here.
The Republican party has been doing just fine without them.

The Party is too big to fail, and we are sick of being
bailed out by libertartians & Tea partiers.

The best way to win them over is by insult. Damn cop haters!!

49 posted on 08/10/2011 8:12:10 AM PDT by laotzu
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To: laotzu
sick of Tea partiers?

Just dang.

50 posted on 08/10/2011 8:16:36 AM PDT by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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