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London riots: 'People are fighting back. It's their neighbourhoods at stake'
The Guardian ^ | Wednesday 10 August 2011 | Peter Beaumont, Jasmine Coleman and Sandra Laville

Posted on 08/10/2011 6:44:31 AM PDT by The Bronze Titan

When the rioters came to attack the premises of Kurdish and Turkish businesses in Hackney's Stoke Newington High Street and Kingsland Road on Monday night, the owners were waiting for them. "It was between about nine and 10 at night," said Yilmaz Karagoz, sitting in his coffee shop next to a jeweller's shop that has been shuttered since Sunday when the rioting began and a pharmacy that closed a day after. "There were a lot of them. We came out of our shops but the police asked us to do nothing. But the police did not do anything so, as more came, we chased them off ourselves." ... read more

(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: londonriots
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To: The Bronze Titan
That's a great quote and one of the themes on BBC coverage I saw Mon/Tues.

It was amazing to see the academics trying to justify the "feral youth" activities as righteous disaffection.

It was even more amazing to see the handwringing over whether to use water canons on mobs. Water canons? Oh no! The horror!

51 posted on 08/10/2011 8:18:59 AM PDT by newzjunkey (the circular firing squad has got to end now)
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To: no-to-illegals
sick of Tea partiers?

And libertarians.

Did I really need a sarcasm tag? Just....just dang.

52 posted on 08/10/2011 8:19:39 AM PDT by laotzu
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To: laotzu

okay, you had me there for a moment ... more understand of the post now ... my bad ... slinking over to the corner.


53 posted on 08/10/2011 8:20:48 AM PDT by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: GonzoGOP

I just want to tell you that your post was excellent! You are well informed and especially knowledgeable in history. You have predicted the future perfectly. Thanks.


54 posted on 08/10/2011 8:23:59 AM PDT by Kratos
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To: laotzu
Feel free to use mine.
:)


55 posted on 08/10/2011 8:26:05 AM PDT by MaryFromMichigan
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To: MaryFromMichigan

Sweet! Thanks.


56 posted on 08/10/2011 8:31:35 AM PDT by laotzu
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To: ScottinVA
Doesn't surprise me. In the UK, you're also told you should simply flee if your home is invaded.

I was talking to a couple of transplanted Brits. One lives in NY, the other in SF. They are both smokers so both were lamenting the smoking ban and how it was a bad thing, then the subject turned to the gun ban and how it was a good thing, "Because guns kill people". I pointed out how knives, bats, rocks - anything could kill people. They reasoned that with guns, you could stand far away and kill.

The SF one was thinking maybe he needed one because he was putting his earthquake kit together and in the event of the "Big One" would want to protect it. The NY one was all aghast. "Let them have it if they want it!"

57 posted on 08/10/2011 8:32:00 AM PDT by reformed_dem
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To: JPG

’ the police asked us to do nothing’

‘I think I recognize a big part of the problem.’

It gives the cops less job security if the citizens take out the trash instead.


58 posted on 08/10/2011 8:33:33 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Socon-Econ
"The cop hating libertarians here at FR will learn to be more temperate when the thugs come after them."

When things broke down after Katrina hit New Orleans, the cops were the thugs...


59 posted on 08/10/2011 8:35:12 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Socon-Econ

“The cop hating libertarians here at FR will learn to be more temperate when the thugs come after them.”

Um, nope. So far the cops have been nearly useless. Our cops wouldn’t be much better. If you are thinking that you’ll just wait for a cop to protect you, well, if the thugs don’t kill you I hope you at least have good medical insurance because they’ll probably beat you to pieces.


60 posted on 08/10/2011 8:35:12 AM PDT by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: Socon-Econ
cop hating libertarians

May I suggest 'losertarian', or 'liberaltarian'? They are both original, and up your argumentum ad hominem to regal status. Claim them as you own. A gift from me to you.

If the mock might stick, you must inflict that sh!t.

61 posted on 08/10/2011 8:40:32 AM PDT by laotzu
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To: Jack Hydrazine

Here, it would be a “hate crime” to fight back.


62 posted on 08/10/2011 8:42:30 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: The Bronze Titan
HERE IS THE MAJOR LESSON (this country better be prepared):

Sound advice, but it must be as a group preferably. The authorities might dump on one individual to make a point. Most people will have forgotten the case of Tony Martin, a farmer in rural Norfolk, England. (1999) He had been burgled ten times by so-called "gypsies" or travellers. He was threatened again. He fired a shot gun at two of them and one bled to death from a leg wound. He got life imprisonment for "murder".

The good souls who care, got the sentence reduced to manslaughter and he served three years of five years given. One youth had 29 arrests for theft and the other a long record of crime. There relatives made murky threats on his release that they had a hit team out on Martin. Nothing did happen.

Any action by any citizenry anywhere should be as a group, if possible. The enemy within Western Civilization, cannot wait but to single out one or two citizens. Faced with determined opposition the vandals and looters will fade away. IMHO.

63 posted on 08/10/2011 8:43:46 AM PDT by Peter Libra
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To: CodeToad
Everyone should have their own insurance policy ... for during an epidemic catastrophe the police will be protecting their families, not yours. I still wonder why some in LE do not want the law-abiding public armed. Has puzzled me for countless years.
64 posted on 08/10/2011 8:45:03 AM PDT by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: Texas Eagle
What! The concept of self-defense is still alive in Britain?

only in the immigrants, it would appear. The gentry is likely shocked and will do something about it.

65 posted on 08/10/2011 8:48:39 AM PDT by NonValueAdded (Murray / Baucus / Kerry? I've had better picks come out of my nose.)
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To: TigerClaws

Britain needs to re-arm their officers!!!


66 posted on 08/10/2011 8:48:53 AM PDT by ridesthemiles
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To: no-to-illegals

“I still wonder why some in LE do not want the law-abiding public armed.”

Some because their liberal political masters say to.
Some because they get off on power and control and less you have the more they appear to have.
Some because not even they should own a firearm; too stupid.


67 posted on 08/10/2011 8:50:13 AM PDT by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: CodeToad
Always thought that those in LE who didn't want the law-abiding public armed were those who want to enslave rather than serve and protect. That was point #2, made by you, in the multiple choice or all of the above listing. On some days, I admit to agreeing with all of the listing especially point #1.
68 posted on 08/10/2011 8:58:16 AM PDT by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: TigerClaws

Wouldn’t that be Cricket bats?


69 posted on 08/10/2011 9:16:17 AM PDT by AFreeBird
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To: Socon-Econ
No. We won't.

We are ARMED to the teeth and "Conservatarians" like me take personal responsibility for my families security.

We don't need a sheep-dog to protects us like the rest of you sheep.

70 posted on 08/10/2011 9:37:44 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the sheltered will never know.)
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To: miss marmelstein

Yes,I saw her interviewed by the BBC earlier in the day and
she articulated the situation quite well.


71 posted on 08/10/2011 10:01:02 AM PDT by Dr. Ursus
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To: Vigilanteman

A 23-year-old council worker (job unspecified) would, I suspect, be more than somewhat startled to find himself described as a member of the ‘official ruling class’.


72 posted on 08/10/2011 10:24:08 AM PDT by Winniesboy
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To: FlingWingFlyer
Hopefully, the Second Amendment will help decent people keep this kind of commie crap under control once it begins here. Thank God and the Founding Fathers for the Second Amendment.

There have been a numerous comments to the same effect by Freepers over the last few days. I may be wrong about this, and the various outbreaks may have been imperfectly reported here in Britain: but in the sporadic riots in the U.S. which have occurred in my (fairly long) lifetime, I don't recall the Second Amendment being widely applied in practice. Shooting of rioters by police or the National Guard? Certainly. But shooting of rioters by ordinary citizens? If that's happened on a widespread scale, that news certainly hasn't crossed the Atlantic.

73 posted on 08/10/2011 10:31:59 AM PDT by Winniesboy
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To: FlingWingFlyer
Hopefully, the Second Amendment....

The second amendment does not protect you from evildoers.

Your god given rights to self preservation do that, using such force as you need to effect that protection.

The second amendment merely places into print that the US Gov't cannot infringe upon that pre exiting right.

74 posted on 08/10/2011 10:37:25 AM PDT by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: Winniesboy

Maybe not a member just yet, but definitely an apprentice or a wanna be.


75 posted on 08/10/2011 10:47:48 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: Little Ray

Cracking heads while putting down a riot is a hell of a lot different than cracking heads to intimidate folks at a traffic stop or shoplifting arrest.


76 posted on 08/10/2011 11:05:36 AM PDT by Nebr FAL owner (.308 reach out & thump someone .50 cal.Browning Machine gun reach out & crush someone)
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To: The Bronze Titan; All

‘We are the Enfield Army’: Video of locals chasing rioters in London

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6p4itkdLi8&feature=player_embedded


77 posted on 08/10/2011 11:09:48 AM PDT by Lorianne
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To: Socon-Econ

I don’t hate cops ,I just don’t have any use for the brown shirt wannabe’s as opposed to peace officers who will arrest a thief ,rapist ,arsonist,etc. As opposed to swaggering down the street trying to prove that he is the biggest bad ass in town.


78 posted on 08/10/2011 11:12:35 AM PDT by Nebr FAL owner (.308 reach out & thump someone .50 cal.Browning Machine gun reach out & crush someone)
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To: Vigilanteman

I’ve known a good few British council workers in my time - indeed I confess to having (briefly) been one myself. I’m hard pressed to think of any of them who has ever ruled anything, save perhaps his own in-tray.


79 posted on 08/10/2011 11:15:05 AM PDT by Winniesboy
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To: Winniesboy

Yes, that’s an interesting question. I think that if we were to research it, we would find that some areas are less prone to rioting and violence than others, and figure out what factors make it that way. I think the answer is that it just doesn’t happen in some areas where there would be citizen resistance.


80 posted on 08/10/2011 11:29:01 AM PDT by SuzyQue
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To: Winniesboy
Just out of curiosity, are British council workers full-time unionized government employees or citizens which may be charged with a specific task and serve as volunteers or near volunteers who may get a pittance as a salary or a per meeting payment?

I will be among the first to admit that there are dedicated people who work in government and on town councils. Many of them work out of a genuine civic desire to serve and deserve our thanks.

Others work out of a lust for power and do not. While it is impossible to say for sure which type this 23 year old kid might be, the stupidity of the remarks indicate either the later or an incomprehensible naivety. Possibly both.

FWIW, I have a kid in the neighborhood who happens to be black mow my lawn. Not because I'm making a fashion statement or trying to promote diversity. But because he's a nice young man who does a good job.

81 posted on 08/10/2011 11:34:28 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: Winniesboy
Check out the Korean community in L.A.’s response to the riots after the Rodney King beating trial.

The 2nd Amendment was widely applied and it protected both life and property.

Great pictures of armed Koreans defending their lives, their property, their liberty and their sacred honor.

82 posted on 08/10/2011 12:08:20 PM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: Vigilanteman

Well, yes, all the categories and types which you mention do exist here just as they clearly do in the U.S. (except that, to be strictly accurate, council workers are employees of local, not national government. A fine distinction, perhaps, but the chain of accountability in local government tends to be much shorter, and redress through the balllot box much quicker.)
You mention the ‘genuine civic desire to serve’. One of the unfortunate changes here in my lifetime is the devaluation in general esteem of public service of this kind. Local government is particularly unfortunate in this respect, since it’s despised both by the centralists (of both parties) in national government, and by much of the citizenry and local press. At one time it was seen as one of the finest callings to which one could aspire, and local public servants were among the most prominent and most respected in their communities. No longer. And while admirable public servants of this kind do still exist (I know a number of them), the incentives to go into this field are not what they were, and the calibre of the profession (with many admirable individual exceptions) is not what it was.
As for a lust for power - well there are little Hitlers in all walks of life. But local authorities in Britain have very little real power any more (so many of their former responsibilities having been centralised); so the ability to satify that lust, where it exists, is largely confined to what goes on inside the office.


83 posted on 08/10/2011 12:09:21 PM PDT by Winniesboy
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To: Vigilanteman

Is that the British version of “Lay back and enjoy it”?


84 posted on 08/10/2011 12:09:50 PM PDT by Ellendra (God feeds the birds of the air, but he doesn't throw it in their nests.)
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To: The Bronze Titan
Unfortunately, those poor buggers can't own what I can...

These do a pretty good job at keeping those pesky rioters away...

This S&W 500 mag

And this Glock 19...

and this Mossberg 930...


85 posted on 08/10/2011 12:42:46 PM PDT by ThomasMore (Islam is the Whore of Babylon!)
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To: 2banana
-"They sound like Americans!"

I would gladly trade them for some of our 'home-grown' American marxists running around in this country creating chaos and ruining our country.

86 posted on 08/10/2011 1:14:28 PM PDT by The Bronze Titan
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To: Ellendra; Winniesboy
I'd suspect so, though as a matter of fair disclosure, I'm an American and only familiar with Brits and Canadians by working with them most of my professional life.

By and large, the people I've worked with are polite and pleasant to a fault. Much less confrontational than we Americans until you back them into a corner. Then they can show as much or more Moxie than any of us Yanks.

The description which Winniesboy gave certainly sounds accurate by my frame of reference. My father once served as the counterpart of these local governments when we lived in a small town in Kansas. His official title was Justice of the Peace and I think the town paid him $20 per month or some such token. He got the job because he was trusted to mediate the occassional dispute which generally involved some hog getting into the neighboring cornfield or some teenage kid driving over somebody's lawn.

Some of these titles have been carried into modern America, but most of their authority has been diminished by centralization and nobody wants to do them anymore. As little as 10 years ago when we first moved to Pennsylvania, most of the local school board was respected business people and other members of the community.

Now, it has been stocked with mainly union hacks who cross-file in both party primaries and turn out their machine. In our district, we had four of nine slots up for this year. Three of the four incumbents were even former union puppets who begin to show an independent streak.

Most people here can't even be bothered with school board primaries, so the union hack slate won all four of the Democrat slots easily and two of the four Republican slots. So come November, the best we can hope for is a 50-50 split between union hacks and normal citizens.

87 posted on 08/10/2011 1:37:57 PM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: Winniesboy
I don't recall the Second Amendment being widely applied in practice.

The Second Amendment has been widely applied in rural parts of the deep South in the aftermaths of hurricanes. It has also been applied in other parts of the US following other sorts of natural disasters. Generally, few shots are fired. The sight of rednecks and hillbillies with guns is usually enough to persuade potential looters to go elsewhere. The most famous case of 2A application, I believe, was the response of the LA Korean community to the "Rodney King Riots". Shots were fired, and a neighborhood was protected.

Beyond that, riots tend to occur in places where folks don't have much use for the Second Amendment in the first place.

88 posted on 08/10/2011 2:02:02 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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