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Ron Paulís liberty will give us death
The Daily Caller ^

Posted on 08/17/2011 5:29:33 PM PDT by mnehring

Since the unfortunate results of the Ames straw poll were announced, a constant mewling and bleating has gone up from several sectors of the political system. Faced with a media that represents (accurately) the top tier of the Republican Presidential Nominating Contest as Michele Bachmann, Rick Perry and Mitt Romney, with a few idle and unproductive fantasies about Rick Santorum or Jon Huntsman recovering, the partisans of one particularly impotent politician shriek their discontent:

“What about Ron Paul?! He took second! Doesn’t he warrant a mention?”

This meme has been echoed even by the likes of Jon Stewart, whose fanciful quest to ferret out every trace of hypocrisy on the side of his opponents has instead led him down the rabbit hole of self-righteousness and false punditry, always thinly veiled by a layer of badly applied clown makeup. Nevertheless, the question must be asked: What about Ron Paul?

Let me take a crack at answering that. The reason no one wants to discuss Ron Paul as a top tier contender is because most people would rather pretend he were not a contender at all. Why? Because Ron Paul is a joke at the expense of the Right, and his second place showing in the straw poll was the bad punch line. The man tracks with (and may agree with) racist, conspiracy-mongering mongoloids so vile that they would instantly discredit libertarianism if any liberal media outlet more relevant than The New Republic ever bothered to cover them. Those who disagree are invited to explain the chumminess between Ron Paul and the Mises Institute, whose patron Saint Murray Rothbard once made a habit of paling around both with Maoists and with the followers of David Duke, for the simple reason that the responsible Right failed to display a sufficient hatred of America relative to those two groups.

What Paul’s partisans fail to apprehend is that the reason that coverage is not forthcoming for their hero is because Paul has made himself the avatar of a time-tested brand of Republicanism: That is, self-hating Republicanism. The reason disingenuous sniggerers like Stewart sympathize with Paul, and why Rachel Maddow will fawningly ask him to explain his crackpot theories between heaping mouthful of carpet is because Ron Paul attacks his own party with twice the zeal he ever uses against liberals. He spouts the same nonsense talking points as members of the Pacifist Left (“Iran is only defending themselves!”) and the Socialist Left (“Corporations aren’t people! Only people are people!”) with the ingenious capacity for somehow duping legions of devoted followers into believing these time-tested left wing gobs of spit are somehow true conservatism. It’s time someone explained precisely why this designation is as fantastical as Paul’s chances at election are.

Paul calls himself a Constitutional conservative. Not since Lyndon Larouche’s love affair with the word “fascist” has a political descriptor been so repeatedly abused.  Paul is neither Constitutionalist, nor conservative, nor capitalist. His Constitutionalism is revisionist historical fanfiction based on a vision of the Founders so unrealistic it makes John Galt look three-dimensional. His economics are an unfalsifiable, unscientific tangle that would make creationists blush. His conservatism is a mask for a brand of antiwar utopianism that condemns George W. Bush, Ronald Reagan and Abraham Lincoln while excusing Josef Stalin, Adolf Hitler and Jefferson Davis. If William F. Buckley stood athwart the train of history yelling STOP, then Paul has instead ridden it into the tunnels of irrelevance, where the billowing clouds of hot air that spew from his mouth will asphyxiate him and his followers like so many disposable extras in an Ayn Rand novel. Like Rand, it’s best that we leave him to die.

Start with Paul’s utterly inaccurate vision of the Founders. For evidence, one need only look at his speech from this year’s CPAC. Without a trace of irony, Paul managed to go from extolling his followers for leading a “revolution” to condemning neoconservatives as “neo-Jacobins.” Paul would know something about Jacobinism, for he also made the laughable contention that “force has never worked,” and implied that the Founders would not have supported the War on Terror. Ironically, this theory – if not its particulars – puts him in the company of actual historical Jacobins.

If you were to ask a Ron Paul supporter to name a President who had fought an undeclared war on the slogan that America would pay millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute, who had rigidly controlled travel and immigration, and who had imprisoned dissidents on the theory that they could be potential enemy combatants, most would probably say it was George W. Bush. This answer is as predictable as it is wrong. In fact, the descriptors above apply to John Adams, one of the actual Founders who Ron Paul so adores, and the cousin of Samuel Adams – one of Ron Paul’s favorite pages on Wikiquote.

Adams’ opponents in his undeclared war happened to be the post-Jacobin Directory of France, who had taken to authorizing piracy against the United States over a trade dispute. Adams tried negotiation, but when one of the French diplomats asked Adams’ agents for a bribe, he called the entire thing off and went to war without the approval of Congress. He got away with it partially because the public relations fallout from these negotiations was so severe that every pro-French American politician (including Thomas Jefferson) was branded a closeted Jacobin. Certainly, the actual Jacobins sounded similar notes.

So despite his constant claims to be speaking for the Founders, one imagines that Paul would side with the Jacobins over one of the actual Founders in viewing this act of war as a mistake. No doubt he would have paid the bribe and “peacefully” settled the whole thing, turning the United States into a victim of extortion in the process. After all, the one thing a Paulite will die for is the idea that everything should be for sale, even one’s dignity. Which may explain why their hero has none left.

And what of the things that are and aren’t for sale? Certainly no Congressman has been so seemingly economics-minded as Paul. Do his economics hold water?

Not at all. Consider the following: Along with maintaining one of the most openly cranky blogs on the internet, Paul’s old Chief of Staff, Lew Rockwell, fancies himself an economist of the Rothbardian school. Never mind that Rockwell is actually a former English major, for that is the least of his worries. Consider instead that Rockwell’s (and Paul’s) professed idol, Rothbard, was such a radical even for the Austrian school that he outright denied the usefulness of empirical evidence at all.  No mathematical models for Rothbard, either – for him, it was enough to purely take it on faith that one could find answers to all the great questions in economics through poorly derived, logically fallacious extrapolations from the General Equilibrium Theory of Supply and Demand.

And what did Rothbard derive from that theory? Nothing less than a moral and political mandate for absolute anarchy. Capitalist anarchy, mind you, in that Rothbard and Rockwell would rather have private defense contractors—for those of you not familiar with the jargon, that means institutions like the Italian Mafia and the Russian Mob—handle the defense of citizens. In formulating this morally, economically and politically insane fever dream, Rothbard and his heirs (Rockwell and Paul included) claimed to be carrying on the Austrian tradition started by the likes of Ludwig von Mises and Friedrich Hayek. But Mises’ own 1000 page tract of semi-autistic dogmatism, Human Action, failed to come out in favor of anarchy, and Hayek favored a minimal welfare state, so long as it conformed to the rule of law. Hardly the sort of ringing endorsement one needs for a theory that views competition among the Russian and Italian mobs as superior to the enlightened rule of law propagated by the contemporary American state.

Paul, of course, studiously claims not to be an anarchist. But he is on record praising Rothbard, and his former Chief of Staff runs a think tank devoted to propagating Rothbard’s insane legacy. And while we’re on the subject of that think tank – the aforementioned and insultingly named Mises Institute – what else do you think they produce under the auspices of Paul’s former right hand man? Nothing less than full throated defenses of absolute monarchy, as well as bribery, blackmail, whoredom and graft. This last book comes with an endorsement from (who else) Rothbard himself, and may explain at least somewhat the infatuation of teenage males with the Rothbard sympathizer Ron Paul. Legalized prostitution, whatever its economic merits, cannot fail to appeal to the pimply perpetual virgins who staff Paul’s volunteer armies. And as for defenses of absolute monarchy, most of those virgins fancy themselves the returning King Aragorns made flesh anyway.

Leave aside the moral ridiculousness (to say nothing of the anti-American character) of these arguments, though, and look at the economics underlying them. There is not a scrap of mathematical analysis, and none of the hypotheses are falsifiable. If Paul’s supporters fancy this economic science, one presumes they also think the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is practicing theology. This brand of Austrianism is to Economics what Young Earth Creationism is to Science generally. Keynesians, at least, have the good taste to be economic Intelligent Design theorists and trust their economic fate to the blind watchmaker that is the Federal Government. And by the way, they’re half right about that description – the Federal Government is almost always blind.

Except, that is, when it comes to foreign policy. And here, at last, is the true rub where Ron Paul is concerned. Many conservatives have attacked Paul for being overly friendly to drugs, but this is hardly a new development on the Right. National Review has (correctly, in my opinion) remained in support of ending the drug war since Bill Buckley ran for mayor of New York. And as any Paulite who’s been paying attention will tell you, Ron Paul is just as much a social conservative and deficit hawk as any other Republican (in fact, he is the latter arguably more than any Republican, except when it comes to earmarks). No, the only fight that really exists between the mainstream Right and Ron Paul at the level of serious policy is over foreign policy.

I have already dispatched with the idiotic talking point that our current strategy of pre-emptive or undeclared war is somehow unprecedented or contrary to the intent of the Founders (John Adams begs to differ). Unfortunately, this is the most serious thing Paul will say when you sit him down and make him talk about foreign policy. Those who watched last week’s debate will remember the spectacle of Paul claiming (with a straight face) that Iran was not a threat and only wanted nuclear power because it was frightened of its big, scary neighbors who had nuclear power. And let’s not forget his mind-numbing chant about “blowback,” a talking point which was dismissed by Christopher Hitchens against a more honest America hater than Ron Paul as the contention that the terrorists “wouldn’t be this way if we weren’t so mean to them.”

One could go on for ages about the magical thinking and fallacies inherent in Ron Paul’s vision of foreign policy, but these would all be symptoms of a larger disease: Ron Paul is simply incapable of accepting that there are people in the world who do not conform to the rigid and simplistic mental model known as Homo Economicus. That model is predicated on the possession of perfect information (something no one has in the realm of foreign policy thanks to the everpresent fog of war), and more importantly, perfect rationality. This latter quality is not only not universal – it is unheard of, in world leaders as in anyone else, and especially in the case of Iran’s current leaders.

Moreover, the true lunacy of the Paulite vision on foreign policy cannot be comprehended simply by discussing isolated policy positions. There is probably a universe where one could argue against direct military action, or even indirect economic action against Iran using prudential concerns native to realpolitik. However unpersuasive that argument might be, it would at least be made on the grounds of what is in the United States’ interests, or in the interests of global stability. Also, in framing the issue prudentially, such a hypothetical dovish argument would at least acknowledge the possibility that circumstances might change and the hypothesis could be proven wrong.

Not so with Paul’s vision, which takes non-interventionism (read: crypto-pacifism) as an axiom. Under Paul’s vision, America would be constantly constrained to wait until shots had actually been fired against our troops, or bombs dropped on our cities, or planes flown into our buildings, before we ever did anything against anyone. Leave pre-emptive war out of it – this forecloses even basic intelligence operations. Is it not enough that the Federal Government is blind to reality domestically? Must Ron Paul also root out its rather unique capacity to assess the world stage and take action to secure its citizens?

And if so, why? For LIBERTY, the constant hue and cry goes. But as the old adage says, freedom is not free – a fact that Paulites should be quite aware of, given their hatred of unpriced goods. It is the case, as Colonel Nathan R. Jessep famously opined in A Few Good Men, that we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be defended by men with guns. It is to the advantage of this great country that our political process is not also settled by men with guns, but instead through a Constitutional process fenced in by the rule of law. Still, it is to the good of all that the self-appointed guardians of our political process – the media – have conspired to keep Ron Paul firmly outside the gates to relevance.

I would say that I come to bury Rep. Paul, not to praise him, but it is unnecessary. Despite the constant Kruschev-esque protests of Paul’s crazed followers that whether conservatives like it or not, history is on the side of the Paulites and they will bury us, the facts tell a different and far more uncharitable story. In the battle for conservatism, history is not only against the Paulites, but when it comes to the flaws of their champion, they have buried themselves – headfirst – in the sand.

And in conclusion, liberty liberty constitution straw poll money bomb money bomb liberty tee-hee-hee-hee, the call is coming from inside the house. I win the debate.


TOPICS: Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2012; libertarian; rino; ronpaul
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1 posted on 08/17/2011 5:29:37 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: mnehring
"This brand of Austrianism is to Economics what Young Earth Creationism is to Science generally. Keynesians, at least, have the good taste to be economic Intelligent Design theorists and trust their economic fate to the blind watchmaker that is the Federal Government."

_____________________________________________________

I'm sorry but that is just stupid. Obama is the one we need to focusing on. Not some guy who will never win the nomination.

Go cheerlead for big spending and Keynesians theory somewhere else.
2 posted on 08/17/2011 5:45:46 PM PDT by Minus_The_Bear
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To: mnehring

This author makes me want to puke.

Ron Paul may not be an ideal candidate, but many of his principles could save our party and our nation.

Those Freepers who express contempt for him because of the aspects they disagree with disgust me.

Never forget:

“If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. I think conservatism is really a misnomer just as liberalism is a misnomer for the liberals–if we were back in the days of the Revolution, so-called conservatives today would be the Liberals and the liberals would be the Tories. The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is.

“Now, I can’t say that I will agree with all the things that the present group who call themselves Libertarians in the sense of a party say, because I think that like in any political movement there are shades, and there are libertarians who are almost over at the point of wanting no government at all or anarchy. I believe there are legitimate government functions. There is a legitimate need in an orderly society for some government to maintain freedom or we will have tyranny by individuals. The strongest man on the block will run the neighborhood. We have government to insure that we don’t each one of us have to carry a club to defend ourselves. But again, I stand on my statement that I think that libertarianism and conservatism are travelling the same path.”

-Ronald Reagan, 1975


3 posted on 08/17/2011 5:49:36 PM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Government borrowing is Taxation without Representation)
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To: Minus_The_Bear
Go cheerlead for big spending and Keynesians theory somewhere else.

Reading comprehension a little light tonight. The author isn't cheer-leading for them at all. That was also a jab. THe problem is to the Paultard camp, there are only two economic paths, Keynesians or the Austrian school. Most Conservatives follow more of the Friedman school.

4 posted on 08/17/2011 5:50:38 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: Beelzebubba

At least you included the second paragraph, the part most people ignore and the part that seems most apt with the Paul camp.


5 posted on 08/17/2011 5:51:50 PM PDT by mnehring
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Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: Beelzebubba
Those Freepers who express contempt for him because of the aspects they disagree with disgust me.

Do you mean like the FReepers who express contempt for Cain, or Palin, or Bachamann, or any other candidates because of aspects they disagree with?

How about the fact the Paul camp has been pushing a lot of these divide and conquer articles tearing down all the other candidates and even cheering and bragging about how they are trolling and posting them here and elsewhere? http://www.ronpaulforums.com/forumdisplay.php?313-Opposing-Candidates

7 posted on 08/17/2011 5:55:15 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: mnehring; Jaded; Ryan Spock; TheMom; TChris; Xenalyte; Semper Vigilantis; georgiadevildog; ...

“What Paul’s partisans fail to apprehend is that the reason that coverage is not forthcoming for their hero is because Paul has made himself...”

Apprehend?

Typso ping.


8 posted on 08/17/2011 5:57:47 PM PDT by upchuck (Rerun: Think you know hardship? Wait till the dollar is no longer the world's reserve currency.)
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To: mnehring
"Most Conservatives follow more of the Friedman school."

_________________________________________

Monetarism got us into this mess dumbass.

Alan Greenspan kept interest rates artificially low so everybody thought they could buy things they couldn't afford.

It's people like you who are destroying capitalism and conservatism by hollowing it out to mean nothing.
9 posted on 08/17/2011 6:02:05 PM PDT by Minus_The_Bear
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To: WhistlingPastTheGraveyard

Cult of Paultard Ping

This may be an interesting cycle, especially since the Paultards have let it known their strategy is to tear everyone else down here I think we have several decades of info on the old fraud to keep them busy. (browse the link in 7)


10 posted on 08/17/2011 6:02:27 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: mnehring
I could take you serious if you actually understood the first thing about economics and didn't just call everyone a retard.

You seem about as smart as Obama.
11 posted on 08/17/2011 6:05:26 PM PDT by Minus_The_Bear
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To: Minus_The_Bear

Yea, I guess the degree in economics along with a dad who worked for Reagan really just doesn’t cut it in the Paul world because I didn’t learn it from Lewellan Rockwell. Of course, Paul himself said ‘Reagan makes Carter look Conservative’ and calls the most famous anti-Keynesian, Milton Friedman a Keynesian.


12 posted on 08/17/2011 6:08:46 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: Minus_The_Bear

HEY!!! Haven’t we seen you on other candidates threads smearing and trashing with BS and distortions? Can dish it out but not take it? Just as I thought.

At least anything weird someone can dream up about ronpaul is probbaly true.


13 posted on 08/17/2011 6:14:45 PM PDT by dusttoyou ("Progressives" are wee-weeing all over themselves, Foc nobama)
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To: BlackElk; Allegra; wideawake; lormand

ping


14 posted on 08/17/2011 6:21:14 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: mnehring
1. Milton Friedman was a brilliant economist but he was not the most famous opponent of Kenyes. He was not even a full contemporary. Hayek was a professor in the UK along with Kenyes when the General Theory was written and opposed it. If you visit the Reagan Library you can see his notated copies of Hayek's work.

2. Monertarism and Greenspan's artificially low interest rates caused people to make rash purchases. This distorted market forces.

3. I am not a supporter of Ron Paul. I am a capitalist. Socialists are using this as a way to attack the free market and our very way of life. They blame the panic of 2008 on capitalism. It was no such thing.

Your father has my thanks for serving. A member of my family served in Reagan's cabinet.
15 posted on 08/17/2011 6:22:17 PM PDT by Minus_The_Bear
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To: Beelzebubba
Those Freepers who express contempt for him because of the aspects they disagree with disgust me.

Well, sorry I disgust you. Paul has delusional foreign polices ideas. He is on occasion anti-Semitic. Even though he may be a fine fellow in general, to many of his ideas are lunacy.

16 posted on 08/17/2011 6:23:30 PM PDT by svcw
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To: mnehring
I don't know who Rothbard is, but according to the writer here, he must be one evil guy. It must be presumed that it is a mortal sin to like Rothbard. Okay, I don't know any different. But, I can go to the link that explained Paul's supposed affinity for Rothbard. It was this:

Rothbard taught me to always keep the distinction between peaceful market activity and State coercion in my mind. It served as a constant guide once I was in office. - Ron Paul

I don't care who taught Paul that lesson, if it's valid.

The rest of the accusations that I perused were more of the same, or, even more vague. I'm not going to waste my time looking at source links when the first ones I see are obvious distortions.

The more people say "tard", the more I think Paul is worth looking at.
17 posted on 08/17/2011 6:32:59 PM PDT by andyk (Income != Wealth)
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To: mnehring

I’m no fan of Ron Paul — but this article goes WAY too far.


18 posted on 08/17/2011 6:36:42 PM PDT by patriot preacher
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To: mnehring

I’m no fan of Ron Paul — but this article goes WAY too far.


19 posted on 08/17/2011 6:36:50 PM PDT by patriot preacher
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To: mnehring
...why Rachel Maddow will fawningly ask him to explain his crackpot theories between heaping mouthful of carpet...

I probably don't want to know.

20 posted on 08/17/2011 6:37:47 PM PDT by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: mnehring

I have never before, I am not now, nor will I ever read an article about Paul that is that darn long.

I think the guy is funny, likable in some ways and I might enjoy having lunch with him, if he bought, but that’s about all I could take of his craziness.

As for the straw poll... he’s right to be a bit upset, in that it was a virtual tie with only 152 votes separating him and Bachmann.

I can see how his supporters might be a bit upset in seeing Bachmann getting all of the media attention, while ignoring him. I think it would upset me if I supported him.

I do hope his supporters pass this clot and that Paul feels whole real soon, as we have much more important things going on.


21 posted on 08/17/2011 6:43:23 PM PDT by Gator113 (Palin 2012, period.....)
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To: upchuck
No, I think "apprehend" is OK in this context:
ap·pre·hend
   [ap-ri-hend]
verb (used with object)
1.
to take into custody; arrest by legal warrant or authority: The police apprehended the burglars.
2.
to grasp the meaning of; understand, especially intuitively; perceive.
3.
to expect with anxiety, suspicion, or fear; anticipate: apprehending violence.
verb (used without object)
4.
to understand.
5.
to be apprehensive,  suspicious, or fearful; fear. 

22 posted on 08/17/2011 6:55:58 PM PDT by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: mnehring

Do you mean like the FReepers who express contempt for Cain, or Palin, or Bachamann, or any other candidates because of aspects they disagree with?


I’m talking about those who pretend their opponents are mentally ill or senile (Alinsky would be proud) as opposed to the usual gutter politics. It has been true well before any electoral campaign.

Those Freepers drive me closer to Paul, and away from the GOP and its “Dem Lite” candidates.


23 posted on 08/17/2011 7:12:26 PM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Government borrowing is Taxation without Representation)
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To: mnehring

WHY? is the federal reserve NOT audited..?...
What are they doing with the TRILLIONS sent to them?..
Why is it such a mystery?.. Corruption?.. Theft?.. Ponzi-scheme?..

Ron Paul has has finger on Americas problem!!...
He is over target getting way too much Flak!!..
-OR- just enough FLAK.. because is over target..


24 posted on 08/17/2011 7:21:59 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole...)
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To: svcw

Even though he may be a fine fellow in general, to many of his ideas are lunacy.


When you sober up, you might want to write that comprehensibly.

And perhaps acknowledge the multitude of his principles that conservatives agree with.


25 posted on 08/17/2011 7:28:14 PM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Government borrowing is Taxation without Representation)
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To: Beelzebubba

WOW, what conservative principles are those, oh swami.


26 posted on 08/17/2011 7:34:13 PM PDT by svcw
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To: Beelzebubba; mnehring
If you are driven closer to Paul because people criticize him and away from the GOP - just say it. Be a proud libertarian. Paul has lunatic foreign policies ideas and he is an anti-Semitic but other than that his ideas are fine (roll eyes).
27 posted on 08/17/2011 7:38:27 PM PDT by svcw
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To: mnehring

Vote Paul; Elect Obama.


28 posted on 08/17/2011 7:59:13 PM PDT by JOPO
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To: hosepipe
Ron Paul has has finger on Americas problem!!..

You mean the Fed problem, you know, the one that he is in the catbird seat now to do something about with his committee chairmanship and hasn't done jack other than sabotage his own 'audit' movement. He is in the best position now to go after the Fed and he is blowing it.

29 posted on 08/17/2011 8:06:04 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: svcw

WOW, what conservative principles are those, oh swami.


The same ones that led Reagan to state the libertarianism is the heart and soul of conservatism. If you’re unaware, maybe you should stop mouthing off, and learn about liberty.

Start with our nation’s founding.


30 posted on 08/17/2011 8:07:11 PM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Government borrowing is Taxation without Representation)
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To: Beelzebubba

Huh? I do not remember Reagan being anti-Semitic or having lunatic foreign policies ideas or saying that he was opposed to ear marks then voting for shrimp ear marks, or the legalization of drugs or a bunch of other things. Name what policies Paul has that are conservative and not libertarian.
Paul himself says he is not a Republican, he says he is a libertarian.


31 posted on 08/17/2011 8:17:03 PM PDT by svcw
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To: Beelzebubba
Those Freepers who express contempt for him because of the aspects they disagree with disgust me.

{GASP!} How DARE any FReepers express an opinion of Ron Paul that is less than glowing? That conveys anything less than perfection upon the sainted Ron Paul? Sacrilege!

Seriously, are there any candidates who are not held in contempt by some FReepers for some of the aspects of their ideologies?

C'mon...

32 posted on 08/17/2011 8:28:20 PM PDT by Allegra (Hey! Stop looking at my tagline like that.)
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To: martin_fierro

I was thinking the author meant comprehend.


33 posted on 08/17/2011 8:30:22 PM PDT by upchuck (Rerun: Think you know hardship? Wait till the dollar is no longer the world's reserve currency.)
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To: upchuck

ping for later


34 posted on 08/17/2011 8:32:40 PM PDT by Shimmer1 (No matter how cynical I get, I just can't keep up.)
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To: svcw

You must agree with Obama, attacking Libya is really a good idea. So we give money 7 to 1 to Israel’s Enemy’s, Ron Paul says that’s a waste of our money and distorts reality and he’s the anti-Semite. How many American soldiers must walk into battle to defend Israel when at every point in Israel’s short history, she has defender herself with great skill and valour.

Why do neo-cons and communists insist on their interventionist wars of democratic world conquest for the American Empire, wouldn’t being a good example to the world of a peaceful and prosperous nation be best.

When did our fore-father advocate a policy of interventionism and Nation Building, it’s bad foreign policy and is bankrupting the nation. Suffice it to say whether Obama, Perry, Palin, Romney, or Paul are elected, the America as an Empire is near and end, we simply cannot afford it anymore!


35 posted on 08/17/2011 8:36:55 PM PDT by qman
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To: mnehring

Who wrote this? Ben Bernanke’s lawyer? :)


36 posted on 08/17/2011 8:37:31 PM PDT by Mr. Jeeves ( "The right to offend is far more important than any right not to be offended." - Rowan Atkinson)
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To: Allegra

How DARE any FReepers express an opinion of Ron Paul that is less than glowing?


Your straw-man rhetoric is pathetic. I referred to “contempt” and gave examples.

Come back when you read the posts.


37 posted on 08/17/2011 8:39:15 PM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Government borrowing is Taxation without Representation)
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To: svcw

Why do you anti-Paul loonies have to pretend that the person you are addressing said something he didn’t?

You’re worse than Democrats.


38 posted on 08/17/2011 8:40:42 PM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Government borrowing is Taxation without Representation)
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To: Beelzebubba
That's what I love about Paul threads. The Paultards are such friendly, polite people and have such great senses of humor.

;-)

39 posted on 08/17/2011 8:43:46 PM PDT by Allegra (Hey! Stop looking at my tagline like that.)
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To: mnehring
[ You mean the Fed problem, you know, the one that he is in the catbird seat now to do something about with his committee chairmanship and hasn't done jack other than sabotage his own 'audit' movement. He is in the best position now to go after the Fed and he is blowing it. ]

Yeah.. how bout that... if he is a shill to hamper the investigation.. it should come out.. AND OTHERS pick up the slack..

UNLESS there is (guard my mouth) there is a conspiracy in Washington D.C. to NOT AUDIT THE FED...

Then Ron Paul would/could be "outted" as a federal reserve shill...
with Libertarians falling on their swords and committing "Hari Kari" all over the place..
The entertainment value would precious... BUT the deed would still remain UNDONE...

40 posted on 08/17/2011 8:45:59 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole...)
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To: qman

Jefferson - Tripoli
I am not a communist nor a neo con.
Oh, never mind support Paul, it is your right but do not pretend he is something he is not.


41 posted on 08/17/2011 8:54:15 PM PDT by svcw
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To: Beelzebubba

42 posted on 08/17/2011 8:55:58 PM PDT by svcw
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To: hosepipe

Not a conspiracy, just another old career politician who talks a lot but can’t accomplish anything and would probably rather have the issue remain on the table so he can keep raising money off it and getting attention.


43 posted on 08/17/2011 8:59:40 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: mnehring
Not a conspiracy, just another old career politician who talks a lot but can’t accomplish anything and would probably rather have the issue remain on the table so he can keep raising money off it and getting attention.

He was on the local news the other night and said the reason he was in the presidential race was to make people listen to him.

The story was about how the media's not covering him.

Hey, they're not covering Huntsman and some of the other non-essentials either. ;-)

44 posted on 08/17/2011 9:17:20 PM PDT by Allegra (Hey! Stop looking at my tagline like that.)
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To: mnehring

This article is nothing but hateful neo-con garbage. Judging from what I have been reading around here no one is good enough to assume the presidency from the Obamanation. Therefore, I think I will just count my ammunition, check the water and food supply, and occasionally check in to see how badly the supposed good guys are beating up on each other. We should be focused on kicking that pospotus out of the White House instead of trying to destroy his potential opponents. I would vote for Ron Paul in less than a heartbeat if he could rid us of that joker that now holds the presidency.


45 posted on 08/17/2011 9:22:13 PM PDT by Jay Redhawk
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To: svcw

What Jefferson did was not intervention as we define it today, we did not invade and Nation Build Libya. The Barbery Pirate’s posed a clear and present danger to our trade routes, just as the Somalia pirates are today. I have no problem with our navy patrolling the seas around Somalia defending our flagged merchant shipping, but I would prefer that our merchants were well armed and could defend themselves from piracy, just as I would want to be armed to defend myself from thieves and murders as necessary.

Any pirates caught today should be subject to the laws against piracy at sea, tried aboard ship and if found guilt hanged and baried at sea.

I agree Ron Paul is a Libertarian as am I, but there are only two competitive parties in America, if Paul does not get the Nomination, I will vote for the nominee of the Republican party just as I did when I voted for McCain.

If the lesser of two evils is the choice I am given, then so be it, the result must be the same the communist needs to get his pink slip.


46 posted on 08/17/2011 9:33:26 PM PDT by qman
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To: Allegra

“Not a conspiracy, just another old career politician who talks a lot but can’t accomplish anything and would probably rather have the issue remain on the table so he can keep raising money off it and getting attention.”

This seem irrelevant as Paul has stated that this is it for him, he’s not returning to the house of reps.

Retirement, awaits. Buy the way, he refused the house retirement benefit out of principle.


47 posted on 08/17/2011 9:39:36 PM PDT by qman
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To: mnehring
[ Not a conspiracy, just another old career politician who talks a lot ]

NAH!.. it couldn't be a conspiracy could it?..
Damn and I was wanting to think the figgen federal reserve WAS a conspiracy...
Why would anyone want to control the economy in an entire country.. or even world-wide?..

Maybe I am too cynical... looking for easy answers....
BUT it sure does look like a conspiracy... with all taxes going to the federal depository..
loaned back to the federal government.. minus interest..

You know with the federal reserve not being federal at all but its a misnomer..
But true I am not too smart... I'm a republican..

48 posted on 08/17/2011 9:47:14 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole...)
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To: upchuck

Not at all. When the cops apprehend a perp, what do they do? You might instead say that they “grabbed” him. You could (but probably wouldn’t) say they “grasped” him. In any case, it means to take hold of and subsequently maintain possession of something. So similarly it’s proper to say that one apprehends an idea or concept, because he grasps a hold of it and maintains his hold.


49 posted on 08/17/2011 9:49:01 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: upchuck

For example, people describe misunderstanding an idea or a set of facts as a “misapprehension”. Couldn’t very well misapprehend if it weren’t also possible to apprehend.


50 posted on 08/17/2011 9:52:13 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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