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Getting ready for a wave of coal-plant shutdowns (Electric rates to increase because of the EPA)
washington post ^ | 8/19/2011 | Brad Plumer

Posted on 08/20/2011 6:24:49 AM PDT by tobyhill

Over the next 18 months, the Environmental Protection Agency will finalize a flurry of new rules to curb pollution from coal-fired power plants. Mercury, smog, ozone, greenhouse gases, water intake, coal ash—it’s all getting regulated. And, not surprisingly, some lawmakers are grumbling.

Industry groups such the Edison Electric Institute, which represents investor-owned utilities, and the American Legislative Exchange Council have dubbed the coming rules “EPA’s Regulatory Train Wreck.” The regulations, they say, will cost utilities up to $129 billion and force them to retire one-fifth of coal capacity. Given that coal provides 45 percent of the country’s power, that means higher electric bills, more blackouts and fewer jobs. The doomsday scenario has alarmed Republicans in the House, who have been scrambling to block the measures. Environmental groups retort that the rules will bring sizeable public health benefits, and that industry groups have been exaggerating the costs of environmental regulations since they were first created.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: coal; energy
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1 posted on 08/20/2011 6:24:52 AM PDT by tobyhill
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To: tobyhill

Obama won’t do anything until 2013.


2 posted on 08/20/2011 6:26:17 AM PDT by scooby321
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To: tobyhill

I really believe Obama wants to lose the election.


3 posted on 08/20/2011 6:29:12 AM PDT by ilovesarah2012
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To: tobyhill

I love the libtards response.

Less coal plants (i.e. less access to electricity) will improve your health.

El Morons.


4 posted on 08/20/2011 6:29:37 AM PDT by nhwingut (Palin '12... Accept No Other)
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To: nhwingut
The hardest hit states will be the northern blue states chock full of libtard Obama voters. He really is an idiot.
5 posted on 08/20/2011 6:34:57 AM PDT by Beagle8U (Free Republic -- One stop shopping ....... It's the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: nhwingut
Improved health #)$*@%&...

in the heat or cold, blackouts KILL PEOPLE.

More proof of liberal lunacy and DEPRAVITY.

6 posted on 08/20/2011 6:35:22 AM PDT by Mrs.Z
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To: nhwingut

The first place that should have it’s electricity shut off
is DC. We all know there is no light on in Obama, Reid, and
Pelosi’s heads already.


7 posted on 08/20/2011 6:36:14 AM PDT by Dem Guard (Obama's 57 States = The Organization of The Islamic Conference (OIC).)
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To: ilovesarah2012
Obama famously said before the 2008 election that under his plan electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket. So he probably feels he's just carrying out a campaign promise.
8 posted on 08/20/2011 6:36:34 AM PDT by Menehune56 ("Let them hate so long as they fear" Oderint Dum Metuant), Lucius Accius, (170 BC - 86 BC))
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To: tobyhill

Obama is doing everything that he can to hold back, control, hamper, regulate and steal from businesses and those who start, own and run them. Ergo he is doing everything he can to destroy the economy. One can speculate as to why. But he is.
But we all know that it is the Republicans who are deliberately stalling the recovery.


9 posted on 08/20/2011 6:38:28 AM PDT by all the best
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To: nhwingut
Less coal plants (i.e. less access to electricity) will improve your health.

Except for all the broken bones, knee scrapes, minor impalements and concussions from stumbling around in the dark.

But a few people will be healthier. If they don't suck in all of the candle soot.

10 posted on 08/20/2011 6:38:47 AM PDT by woofer
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To: tobyhill

The people in PA should vote for Obama again. They loved him last time—even when he said he would bankrupt coal based industries.


11 posted on 08/20/2011 6:39:04 AM PDT by WKUHilltopper (And yet...we continue to tolerate this crap...)
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To: tobyhill

Intentionally reducing the supply of energy... I never could understand why they call themselves “progressives”. Like everything else libtard, nothing but a lie.


12 posted on 08/20/2011 6:39:29 AM PDT by Common Sense 101 (Hey libs... If your theories fly in the face of reality, it's not reality that's wrong.)
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To: Mrs.Z

It’s to be 107 here today.
These people are crazy.


13 posted on 08/20/2011 6:43:09 AM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
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To: WKUHilltopper
I think Obama has internal poll numbers that show him with no chance of winning reelection so he is going all out on his job killing, economic destroying policies.
14 posted on 08/20/2011 6:44:08 AM PDT by tobyhill (Real Spending Cuts Don't Require Increasing The Debt)
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To: tobyhill
Sure, raise electric costs when we are on the verge of a recession and unemployment is close to 10%...that is real smart.

ENVIRONAZIS NEED TO STFU!!!

15 posted on 08/20/2011 6:44:25 AM PDT by Jersey Republican Biker Chick (Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.)
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To: woofer

Life without energy is cruel and short. Do we really want to go back to the 19th century?


16 posted on 08/20/2011 6:49:26 AM PDT by CobraJet
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To: tobyhill

I think he’ll fake some national emergency and do away with the election. That’s how little I trust this goon’s and his Marxist mob’s intent.


17 posted on 08/20/2011 6:50:06 AM PDT by WKUHilltopper (And yet...we continue to tolerate this crap...)
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To: CobraJet

Technology of the early 18th century with the morality and culture of the 21st. Heaven help us.


18 posted on 08/20/2011 6:52:39 AM PDT by all the best
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To: woofer

Right...

1812 - Zero Coal Pants - Life Expectancy = 58.

200 years later...

2012 - 600+ Coal Plants - Life Expectancy = 78.

Those coal plants are killing us /s


19 posted on 08/20/2011 6:53:02 AM PDT by nhwingut (Palin '12... Accept No Other)
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To: tobyhill
CRS notes that many of the plants most affected by the new EPA rules were facing extinction anyway: “Many of these plants are inefficient and are being replaced by more efficient combined cycle natural gas plants, a development likely to be encouraged if the price of competing fuel—natural gas—continues to be low, almost regardless of EPA rules.”

Perhaps, but it's one thing to fully depreciate a plant over, say, 50 years and plan for its replacement. It's quite another to have one lose its asset value overnight. In that case, the capital simply won't exist to replace it.

But liberals figure that the Fed can just print up some capital. No prob.

20 posted on 08/20/2011 6:57:32 AM PDT by BfloGuy (Workers and consumers are, of course, identical.)
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To: WKUHilltopper

I take it you mean West Virginia.


21 posted on 08/20/2011 7:00:20 AM PDT by Post5203 (Our political class have sullied a good man's name...Washington)
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To: tobyhill

Hopefully Rick Perry gets in and nukes these EPA parasites. Puts them all on the bread lines which is where they want to put the American people

FUBO FUEPA


22 posted on 08/20/2011 7:01:45 AM PDT by dennisw (NZT -- works better if you're already smart)
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To: woofer
But a few people will be healthier. If they don't suck in all of the candle soot.

Kerosene lamps are better than candles, but they smoke if the wick isn't trimmed right.

Gas mantle lamps give better light, but they probably emit CO and CO2.

But that's all right. I'm sure the EPA will be regulating those, too. A Nanny State searches high and low.

23 posted on 08/20/2011 7:03:15 AM PDT by Ole Okie (!!)
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To: tobyhill

In 1992 the UN informed us at the “Earth Summit” that the use of fossil fuels was on their “not sustainable” list.

Now that the UN Agenda 21 is U.S. govt. policy is it any wonder that our access to our fossil fuel resources is being curtailed?

There must be a turning back with more awareness of how deeply embedded Agenda 21 policy is and how this is decimating the economy-as designed.

Start your research at agenda21today.com


24 posted on 08/20/2011 7:05:33 AM PDT by Captain7seas (FIRE JANE LUBCHENCO FROM NOAA)
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To: tobyhill

In 1992 the UN informed us at the “Earth Summit” that the use of fossil fuels was on their “not sustainable” list.

Now that the UN Agenda 21 is U.S. govt. policy is it any wonder that our access to our fossil fuel resources is being curtailed?

There must be a turning back with more awareness of how deeply embedded Agenda 21 policy is and how this is decimating the economy-as designed.

Start your research at agenda21today.com


25 posted on 08/20/2011 7:05:46 AM PDT by Captain7seas (FIRE JANE LUBCHENCO FROM NOAA)
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To: all the best
Obama is doing everything that he can to hold back, control, hamper, regulate and steal from businesses and those who start, own and run them. Ergo he is doing everything he can to destroy the economy.

One can speculate as to why

He must have read a few pages of Mr. Winston Churchill's "History of the Second World War"

To defeat the Nazis:

1. destroy oil and petroleum production and distribution

2. Destroy manufacturing industry starting with ball bearing factories

3. Destroy the Rhur valley coal production and industry by flooding the entire valley (the dam busters)

any questions.?

26 posted on 08/20/2011 7:07:20 AM PDT by spokeshave (Obamas approval ratings are so low, Kenyans are accusing him of being born in the USA.)
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To: BfloGuy

I wonder how much tax revenue the instant depreciation of all those coal-fird plants will cost.


27 posted on 08/20/2011 7:09:32 AM PDT by patton (I am sure that I have done dumber things in my life, but at the moment, I am unable to recall them.)
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To: spokeshave
....sorry Winnie....need more coffee....

Make that a Sir Winston

28 posted on 08/20/2011 7:09:48 AM PDT by spokeshave (Obamas approval ratings are so low, Kenyans are accusing him of being born in the USA.)
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To: tobyhill
"Under my plan of a cap-and-trade system*, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket," Obama told the Chronicle . "Coal-powered plants, you know, natural gas, you name it, whatever the plants were, whatever the industry was, they would have to retrofit their operations. That will cost money. They will pass that money on to consumers."

His plan was to do 'cap & trade' by regulation if the legislation failed. Gd dictatorial bastard.

29 posted on 08/20/2011 7:12:07 AM PDT by tbpiper (Sarah Palin is the antivenin for the Obama poison)
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To: tobyhill

Bfl.


30 posted on 08/20/2011 7:13:37 AM PDT by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: The flash mob who wonÂ’t leave.)
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To: spokeshave

Interesting you should say that. Obama and Hillary studied Hitler and put him on a pedestal.


31 posted on 08/20/2011 7:18:18 AM PDT by RC2
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To: WKUHilltopper
I think he’ll fake some national emergency and do away with the election. That’s how little I trust this goon’s and his Marxist mob’s intent.

Getting to be a Captain Obvious statement.
32 posted on 08/20/2011 7:20:37 AM PDT by crosshairs (If Sharia Law becomes the law of the land, heads are gonna roll.)
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To: all the best

Obama said he would bankrupt the coal companies when he was running for election. While the Democrats shout down coal companies, the environmentalists are making sure there are no nuke plants built. The towns that found out how wind power really works in cold winters may know first hand how it feels to be cold. The property owners living next to wind farms found out how fast property values dump. The noise the wind turbines make is awful. Enjoy this new progressive scheme to cripple America.


33 posted on 08/20/2011 7:25:55 AM PDT by oldironsides
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To: Post5203

PA is a huge coal state.


34 posted on 08/20/2011 7:26:45 AM PDT by WKUHilltopper (And yet...we continue to tolerate this crap...)
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To: BfloGuy
Perhaps, but it's one thing to fully depreciate a plant over, say, 50 years and plan for its replacement. It's quite another to have one lose its asset value overnight. In that case, the capital simply won't exist to replace it.

Not only that, but we will have rolling blackouts across the nation. When the weather has been this hot, the grid gets pushed to it's limits and all power plants have to put out their best.

Nuclear has been stymied again, and the Obama Administration will only change the rules again soon. So get ready for the blackouts.

It's probably already in Obama's Create a Crisis so we can't let it go to Waste Plan.

35 posted on 08/20/2011 7:27:02 AM PDT by sr4402
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To: tobyhill

“Let the bastards freeze in the dark”

That particular catchphrase was originally coined when petroleum prices went so high back during the Carter Administration. It related to the boycott of fuel oil in the Northeast, of Texas petroleum production, and the acceleration of petroleum imports from elsewhere. The entrepreneurs that did the oil exploration were hemmed in further and further by “environmental” regulations that were designed primarily to RESTRICT the extraction of fossil energy.

Now the restrictions extend to the very USE of fossil energy.

Fossil energy is not really “fossil”, as the earth is in the process of creating new hydrocarbons from the building blocks of carbon dioxide and water all the time. Down at the “Moho” discontinuity, the conditions of temperature and pressure are such that water is broken down into free hydrogen, which reacts with the extensive quantity of carbon dioxide that also exists at that level. A naturally occurring Fischer-Tropsch reaction on a massive scale creates the various hydrocarbon fractions, which permeate upward out of the zone.

“Peak oil” is another myth to discourage use of the “fossil energy” resources.

Just another in a series of fabrications and dramatizations to create artificial scarcity.


36 posted on 08/20/2011 7:27:21 AM PDT by alloysteel (Are Democrats truly "better angels"? They are lousy stewards for America.)
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To: tobyhill
Frankly, I can't get too worked up about this. One commenter has already speculated about losing power because of the regulations. That will pale in comparison if the worst-case scenario occurs with a coronal mass ejection, and the resulting geomagnetic storm takes its toll. In 1859, a CME-induced geomagnetic storm took out the telegraph networks. In our modern age, engineers predict that a similar event would cause massive power outages and inflict serious damage on the electrical grid. We are talking losing parts in the grid that would take months to replace. (This assumes some bright PhD candidates don't come up with a scheme to protect transmission components, soon enough to allow the protection to be added to the grid.)

Research into low-cost local power generation can't come quick enough.

37 posted on 08/20/2011 7:28:50 AM PDT by asinclair (Talk is cheap, actions are priceless)
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To: tobyhill

The author of the article must not have written the title? Gotcha title?


38 posted on 08/20/2011 7:32:16 AM PDT by listenhillary (Look your representatives in the eye and ask if they intend to pay off the debt. They will look away)
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To: tobyhill

There are some plans underway to build some coal loading terminals on the Columbia river in Washington or Oregon, to facilitate the export of coal. I wonder if these things are related. Maybe the coal companies are getting into export because they don’t think there will be as much of a demand for coal in the US with plants closing.


39 posted on 08/20/2011 7:33:21 AM PDT by wideminded
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To: WKUHilltopper
"PA is a huge coal state."

Not for long....

40 posted on 08/20/2011 7:34:13 AM PDT by KitJ (Shall not be infringed)
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To: all the best

Actually he is doing this to get reelected. Keep the environmental lobby money coming in, his core constituency is too stupid, and the people who have their rates go up will be grateful Obama took on the billionaires.

Freezing is irrelevant. Everyone has to sacrifice for the greater good.


41 posted on 08/20/2011 7:36:50 AM PDT by EQAndyBuzz (Sarah Palin 2012 - Nothing but Net)
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To: tobyhill

Just in time for all those Chevy Volts to plug into the grid.

Charles MacKay must be chuckling in Heaven.


42 posted on 08/20/2011 7:40:22 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (Somewhere in Kenya a village is missing its idiot)
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To: listenhillary
The author is an EPA apologist and he does admit electric rates will increase but I want everyone who votes for this fool Obama to know that they forfeit their rights to complain when they see massive energy cost increases because they can't say they weren't warned by even someone on their own side.
43 posted on 08/20/2011 7:43:25 AM PDT by tobyhill (Real Spending Cuts Don't Require Increasing The Debt)
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To: tobyhill

The washington post. Yeah, they are the most even handed, balanced, and nonpartisan rag in the country.


44 posted on 08/20/2011 7:47:46 AM PDT by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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To: tobyhill

One would think Obama should never be able to win in 2012.

Don’t think that. We are not dealing with decent people. They are corrupt communists and they will pull out every stop to win. I mean every stop no matter how bad.

If we can prevail, it will be absolutely necessary to drain DC of the democrat vermin working in every capacity. Put them out of work. Shut down agencies and get rid of them. Fire commie teachers and redo all textbooks too.

We have to cut out the cancer in all walks of government.


45 posted on 08/20/2011 7:48:59 AM PDT by dforest
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To: ilovesarah2012

Does he really care? Or is what he does is based upon accomplishing his agenda, that is socialism?


46 posted on 08/20/2011 7:49:35 AM PDT by Rock N Jones
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To: CobraJet
Do we really want to go back to the 19th century?

Try the 10th or 11th century. The current occupants of the White House will be quite content to rule over a world lit only by fire as long they believe that they'll be the ones in the high castle. Millions of us dead. The rest of us in chains. That's the goal. Some of them have even said as much.

47 posted on 08/20/2011 7:49:38 AM PDT by Noumenon (The only 'NO' a liberal understands is the one that arrives at muzzle velocity.)
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To: Ole Okie

***Gas mantle lamps give better light, but they probably emit CO and CO2.****

A few years ago the Greenies were having hysterics that the mantles were (gasp) Raidoactive!


48 posted on 08/20/2011 7:49:48 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Click my name. See my home page, if you dare! NEW PHOTOS & PAINTINGS)
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To: tobyhill

He made the point that the utilities added 200 300 gigawatts in a very short time.

Seemed a weird headline when the article goes on to point out that he thinks it is much ado about nothing.


49 posted on 08/20/2011 7:49:48 AM PDT by listenhillary (Look your representatives in the eye and ask if they intend to pay off the debt. They will look away)
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To: alloysteel
Deep hot biosphere ping.
50 posted on 08/20/2011 7:54:08 AM PDT by Noumenon (The only 'NO' a liberal understands is the one that arrives at muzzle velocity.)
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