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EU: Finland destabilizes bailout plan
Presseurop ^ | 8/19/2011

Posted on 08/20/2011 3:19:53 PM PDT by bruinbirdman

‘Finland puts bomb under EU bailout plans’, headlines De Volkskrant, reporting on Finland's demand that Greece put up collateral against Helsinki's participation in the Greek bailout. According to the Dutch newspaper, the two countries have now struck a deal, and four others – Austria, the Netherlands, Slovakia and Slovenia – are now demanding similar guarantees, leading to fears for the stability of the July 21 agreement to save Greece.

In the Netherlands several MPs have already asked the finance minister to take action. De Volkskrant says it is unclear what Greece could offer as collateral to Finland. Probably not islands or railroads: more likely a cash payment of €0.5bn-1bn. Because Greece has no money of its own, the paper fears that the deposit will have to come from the European fund.



TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: finland

1 posted on 08/20/2011 3:19:55 PM PDT by bruinbirdman
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To: bruinbirdman

Collateral is in order. I would suggest the Elgin Marbles. They are ancient perfection and of immense, imeasurable valuec


2 posted on 08/20/2011 3:26:04 PM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 ....Rats carry plague)
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To: bruinbirdman

Proving once again that the whole bailout is impossible. If everyone’s broke, they can’t bail each other out except in a big check-kiting scheme.


3 posted on 08/20/2011 3:31:26 PM PDT by Rocky (REPEAL IT!)
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To: bert
A bunch of islands in the Mediterranean are of far more worth to Finland than any statuary. Can you just imagine at Midsummer (the major vacation time for All Scandinavians) the Finns can travel to a Greek Island where ONLY THEY are present!

I'd bet they'd give the Greeks an island of comparable size somewhere in the Gulf of Bothnia ~ any time!

4 posted on 08/20/2011 3:33:50 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: bruinbirdman

Demanding collateral is smart, but the problem is that other than Ouzo, Greece doesn’t produce anything, and has nothing in the entire Country that is worth what these loans cost.


5 posted on 08/20/2011 3:37:12 PM PDT by Bean Counter ("For every man there exists a bait he cannot resist swallowing.".....Nietzsche)
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To: bruinbirdman

And what will our creditors require of us?


6 posted on 08/20/2011 3:38:12 PM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: bert
Collateral is in order. I would suggest the Elgin Marbles. They are ancient perfection and of immense, imeasurable valuec

Unfortunately the Elgin Marbles are in the British Museum.

Perhaps the Parthenon instead. Of the Greeks default the Finns pack it up and move it to Helsinki.

7 posted on 08/20/2011 3:42:32 PM PDT by Cheburashka (Blade Runner was set in 2019. Except for the flying cars and replicants we're right on schedule.)
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To: muawiyah
I'd bet they'd give the Greeks an island of comparable size somewhere in the Gulf of Bothnia ~ any time!

The best collateral: if the Greeks default they trade countries. The Finns move to Greece, all the Greeks move to Finland.
8 posted on 08/20/2011 3:46:11 PM PDT by Cheburashka (Blade Runner was set in 2019. Except for the flying cars and replicants we're right on schedule.)
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To: Cheburashka

-——Unfortunately the Elgin Marbles are in the British Museum.——

Which is why they make great Greek Collateral. On default the creditors will have to make the Brits cough them up


9 posted on 08/20/2011 3:46:36 PM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 ....Rats carry plague)
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To: bruinbirdman

The Finns are blockheads but my Dad told me that they were the ONLY country to pay back their loans to our country following the 2nd World War and had his respect.


10 posted on 08/20/2011 3:47:03 PM PDT by ynotjjr (It's called the Constitution. Learn it, live it, love it!)
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To: Cheburashka

Other than sunburns and skin cancer, the Finns would jump at the deal. The Greeks would freeze to death the first winter and would no longer be a problem.

I saw they’ve got a new guaranteed cure sort of treatment for skin melanoma ~ just in time for some serious negotiations with the Finns.


11 posted on 08/20/2011 3:51:25 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Rocky
a big check-kiting scheme.

It's only called that when the little people do it. When corporations or governments do it, it's called "finance."

12 posted on 08/20/2011 3:51:34 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand
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To: Bean Counter
Demanding collateral is smart, but the problem is that other than Ouzo, Greece doesn’t produce anything, and has nothing in the entire Country that is worth what these loans cost.

Greece has lots of land that could be valuable, if inhabited exclusively by people who wanted to work. Take some islands, move the Greeks off, and make the islands forever-more Finn territory. Move a bunch of Finns with rifles there.

13 posted on 08/20/2011 3:52:30 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (When you've only heard lies your entire life, the truth sounds insane.)
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To: muawiyah
>> the Finns can travel to a Greek Island where ONLY THEY are present <<

What about those notorious Finnish gals who go to Greece for the Greek Experience?

14 posted on 08/20/2011 3:54:42 PM PDT by Hawthorn
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To: ynotjjr

>> The Finns are blockheads <<

So that’s why they were so successful in fighting the Russians to a standstill during the Winter War?


15 posted on 08/20/2011 3:57:18 PM PDT by Hawthorn
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To: Hawthorn

They can just as easily check out nearby Turkey for the “Turkish Experience”.


16 posted on 08/20/2011 3:58:18 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: bruinbirdman

Where’s the European fund getting the money? American taxpayers?


17 posted on 08/20/2011 4:00:19 PM PDT by mewzilla (Forget a third party. We need a second one.)
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To: bert
When last I checked, the magnificent Elgin* Marbles were still on public display at British Museum in London where they have been since 1801 when the British ambassador to Turkey, Lord Elgin, brought them from Athens (then part of the muslim Ottoman Empire). Given the Greeks’ impecunious ways, I can't imagine they'll be back on the Acropolis any time soon.

For that matter, much of the ancient marble architecture and statuary that remains in Greece is reportedly deteriorated horribly from the effects of local air pollution, poor maintenance, and indifferent stewardship.

*Apparently, Greeks don't like to hear these national treasures referred to as “Elgin” marbles and prefer the term “Parthenon Marbles”.

18 posted on 08/20/2011 4:01:31 PM PDT by Mobties (Reduce the government footprint! Let the markets work!)
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To: Hawthorn
So that’s why they were so successful in fighting the Russians to a standstill during the Winter War?

Yes. If they had any sense, they would have given in on the front end rather than fight a loosing war and having the same result as the Reds originally sought.

19 posted on 08/20/2011 4:19:24 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: PAR35

>> rather than fight a loosing war <<

Uh, sorry pal, but you need to brush up on your history. The Finns didn’t lose the Winter War. They inflicted huge losses on the Russkis and basically achieved a stalemate.

The result was that Finland thwarted the Soviet plan to take over their entire country. I’d say that was quite an admirable accomplishment for a country of about 4 million, going up against the USSR’s 100+ million.


20 posted on 08/20/2011 4:27:53 PM PDT by Hawthorn
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To: bruinbirdman

...pony trekking and camping...


21 posted on 08/20/2011 4:45:42 PM PDT by AndrewB (FUBO)
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To: ynotjjr
The Finns are blockheads but my Dad told me that they were the ONLY country to pay back their loans to our country following the 2nd World War and had his respect.

Finland did not receive any post-WWII (Marshall Plan) loans at all. Indeed, they 'opted out' and instead paid large sums to the USSR as 'reparations'. I did some searching and found that Finland received a US loan after WWI, though, and that that was repaid. I take it that your father referred to that loan.

FWIW, Germany did pay back the Marshall Plan loans. The last payment was made in 1971. (The largest recipients by far, btw, were the UK and France. I'll assume that those were repaid in time as well(?))

The Wikipedia article provides these and further details on the Marshall Plan.

22 posted on 08/20/2011 4:50:36 PM PDT by Moltke (Always retaliate first.)
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To: Hawthorn
>> The Finns are blockheads <<

So that’s why they were so successful in fighting the Russians to a standstill during the Winter War?

The “White Death” and his friends.

http://mosinnagant.net/finland/simohayha.asp

23 posted on 08/20/2011 5:12:20 PM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: Hawthorn

Simo Häyhä = “The White Death”


24 posted on 08/20/2011 5:15:31 PM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: PAR35

Par, seriously..
Do you believe that if the Finns had not brought the voracious russians to the point of defeat that Stalin would have been satisfied with just Karelia?????
They had no idea when russia attacked them that Germany would soon make russia run away from its ambitions against its former territory.
The Finns under the Great Mannerheim were and remain a lesson in courage against evil at impossible odds.


25 posted on 08/20/2011 5:50:04 PM PDT by nkycincinnatikid
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To: Hawthorn

Try reading some history. The pre-war demands by the Soviet were met in the treaty. Italy tried to help the Finns, but the Germans blocked the shipments. The Finns,without any real assistance, had no choice but to settle for the terms that the Russians dictated.

You could start by reading Homer Simpson’s threads in chronological order starting with October 10.


26 posted on 08/20/2011 5:54:01 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: nkycincinnatikid
The Finns under the Great Mannerheim were and remain a lesson in courage against evil at impossible odds.

That doesn't change the fact that they ended the war by acceding to all of the demands of the Soviet - the Baltic island bases demanded, the industrial centers. They fought a wonderful fight, but it was one that they couldn't win - they were cut off on all sides by the end.

27 posted on 08/20/2011 5:58:37 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: ynotjjr

I believe that your dad was refering to WWI debts owed to the USA. Finland and Hungary were the only nations not to simply walk away from them in the 30’s.
france, britain russia, our allies all reputiated them .
In WWII Finland and Hungary were of course fighting against the russians and got no loans


28 posted on 08/20/2011 6:04:19 PM PDT by nkycincinnatikid
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To: PAR35

You don’t seem to get it.
Those valiant men saved their nation.
They had to give up something or face extermination.
They could not know Germany would soon attack the communists.


29 posted on 08/20/2011 6:10:17 PM PDT by nkycincinnatikid
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To: bruinbirdman
"it is unclear what Greece could offer as collateral to Finland. Probably not islands or railroads: more likely a cash payment of €0.5bn-1bn. Because Greece has no money of its own"

Are you kidding???

Greece can offer Findland ALL of the artwork in the National Museum in Athens.

If that's not enough, there are plenty of other antiquities in Greece. Including the Parthenon! The Erectheon! The Praxililes now at Olympia!

If the Greeks can't live within their means, they can pay for their foolishness with their national treasures.

MESSAGE TO FINNS: DEMAND COLLATERAL! THE GREEKS CAN PAY IT!

It's good to know that there are some people out there with common sense.

The Greeks are still complaining about the loss of the Elgin Marbles, the Venus de Milo, the Victory of Samothrace! Maybe the loss of the bronze Poseidon (now in the National Museum) will knock some sense into their heads.

I do not feel sorry for them one bit. They knew the consequences of their folly. They can jolly well watch them come to fruition.

If ANYBODY ought to know the connection between hubris and denial (on the one hand) and tragedy (on the other) it's the Greeks!

Let 'em re-learn history!

30 posted on 08/20/2011 6:31:52 PM PDT by Savage Beast ("This is the great eternal question: Are 'Liberals' evil or stupid?" --Ann Coulter)
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To: nkycincinnatikid
You don’t seem to get it. If they had made the concessions when first demanded, they wouldn't have had to risk extermination.

They could not know Germany would soon attack the communists

It wasn't 'soon' It was a year and a half from the fall of 1939 (demands began in early fall, fighting started in November) until June 1941 when Hitler moved against the Reds.

31 posted on 08/20/2011 7:12:45 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: Texas Fossil

Thanks for the link. Really interesting. I never knew about the Winter War. That rifle, the Mosin Nagant, was on Top Shot last season, I think.


32 posted on 08/20/2011 8:51:56 PM PDT by athelass (Proud Mom of a Sailor & 2 Marines! Flash mobsters are a metaphor for Obama's hate-the-rich speeches)
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To: ynotjjr

Youtube

Modern Finland has little need for the kind of national branding campaign seen in the 1930s. Then Finland was known only as the country that paid its debts to the United States

33 posted on 08/21/2011 3:06:06 AM PDT by Viiksitimali
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To: Moltke
"Finland did not receive any post-WWII (Marshall Plan) loans at all. "

Hidden help from across the Atlantic
US Army Surplus purchases were a kind of back-door Marshall Aid


34 posted on 08/21/2011 3:13:55 AM PDT by Viiksitimali
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To: PAR35

>> Try reading some history. <<

I have. And I’ve done a fair amount of traveling in Finland.

>> The pre-war demands by the Soviet were met in the treaty. <<

Yes, but after those initial pre-war demands were turned down, the Soviets upped the ante by trying openly to take over the whole of Finland.

They established a puppet government, infiltrated Finnish communist agents, dropped millions of propaganda leaflets, engaged in saturation radio broadcasting, and worked diligently to stir an uprising among the Finnish working classes. Their efforts failed, thanks not only to patriotic resistance by the Finnish populace and the cold-weather skills of the Finnish infantry, but also thanks to the shrewd tactics of Mannerheim and the correspondinly bad leadership of the Red Army.

In your view, the Finns should simply have acquiesed right off the bat — like the Estonians and Latvians did — and should thereby have allowed the Soviets to establish bases far inside Finnish territory.

We know what happened to Estonia and Latvia. Their giving in to the Soviets led to the total loss of their independence. If the Finns had followed your advice and had given in rather than fight, the Russkis would soon have occupied the whole of Finland also, right up to the Swedish border. That clearly was what they wanted, because one of their aims was to restore Finland as a part of the Soviet realm, just as it was formally a part of the Russian Empire from 1809 until 1917.

Now if you want to say that saving Finland from total Soviet control was a form of “losing” the Winter War, then go ahead. But I don’t think you’ll find much agreement from those who have more than just a superficial knowledge of the affair.


35 posted on 08/21/2011 9:04:10 AM PDT by Hawthorn
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To: muawiyah

>> They can just as easily check out nearby Turkey for the “Turkish Experience”. <<

Maybe that’s for Finnish gay men, but probably not for hot Finnish women.


36 posted on 08/21/2011 9:05:58 AM PDT by Hawthorn
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To: Hawthorn

Hmm ~ maybe they’d prefer the Washington DC Metro Area.


37 posted on 08/21/2011 9:19:56 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Viiksitimali

Thank you for that interesting reference. Good to see that the US also gave assistance to Finland - under the Soviet radar.

But, as initially stated, Finland did not receive monetary loans that had to be repaid.


38 posted on 08/21/2011 11:00:31 AM PDT by Moltke (Always retaliate first.)
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To: Hawthorn
And I’ve done a fair amount of traveling in Finland.

Ah. That explains it. You've done a good job of absorbing Finnish propaganda.

39 posted on 08/21/2011 2:07:24 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: PAR35

>> You’ve done a good job of absorbing Finnish propaganda <<

Thanks for your logical and persuasive contribution to the discussion!


40 posted on 08/21/2011 2:29:30 PM PDT by Hawthorn
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