Skip to comments.EU: Finland destabilizes bailout plan
Posted on 08/20/2011 3:19:53 PM PDT by bruinbirdman
Finland puts bomb under EU bailout plans, headlines De Volkskrant, reporting on Finland's demand that Greece put up collateral against Helsinki's participation in the Greek bailout. According to the Dutch newspaper, the two countries have now struck a deal, and four others Austria, the Netherlands, Slovakia and Slovenia are now demanding similar guarantees, leading to fears for the stability of the July 21 agreement to save Greece.
In the Netherlands several MPs have already asked the finance minister to take action. De Volkskrant says it is unclear what Greece could offer as collateral to Finland. Probably not islands or railroads: more likely a cash payment of 0.5bn-1bn. Because Greece has no money of its own, the paper fears that the deposit will have to come from the European fund.
Collateral is in order. I would suggest the Elgin Marbles. They are ancient perfection and of immense, imeasurable valuec
Proving once again that the whole bailout is impossible. If everyone’s broke, they can’t bail each other out except in a big check-kiting scheme.
I'd bet they'd give the Greeks an island of comparable size somewhere in the Gulf of Bothnia ~ any time!
Demanding collateral is smart, but the problem is that other than Ouzo, Greece doesn’t produce anything, and has nothing in the entire Country that is worth what these loans cost.
And what will our creditors require of us?
Perhaps the Parthenon instead. Of the Greeks default the Finns pack it up and move it to Helsinki.
-——Unfortunately the Elgin Marbles are in the British Museum.——
Which is why they make great Greek Collateral. On default the creditors will have to make the Brits cough them up
The Finns are blockheads but my Dad told me that they were the ONLY country to pay back their loans to our country following the 2nd World War and had his respect.
Other than sunburns and skin cancer, the Finns would jump at the deal. The Greeks would freeze to death the first winter and would no longer be a problem.
I saw they’ve got a new guaranteed cure sort of treatment for skin melanoma ~ just in time for some serious negotiations with the Finns.
It's only called that when the little people do it. When corporations or governments do it, it's called "finance."
Greece has lots of land that could be valuable, if inhabited exclusively by people who wanted to work. Take some islands, move the Greeks off, and make the islands forever-more Finn territory. Move a bunch of Finns with rifles there.
What about those notorious Finnish gals who go to Greece for the Greek Experience?
>> The Finns are blockheads <<
So that’s why they were so successful in fighting the Russians to a standstill during the Winter War?
They can just as easily check out nearby Turkey for the “Turkish Experience”.
Where’s the European fund getting the money? American taxpayers?
For that matter, much of the ancient marble architecture and statuary that remains in Greece is reportedly deteriorated horribly from the effects of local air pollution, poor maintenance, and indifferent stewardship.
*Apparently, Greeks don't like to hear these national treasures referred to as “Elgin” marbles and prefer the term “Parthenon Marbles”.
Yes. If they had any sense, they would have given in on the front end rather than fight a loosing war and having the same result as the Reds originally sought.
>> rather than fight a loosing war <<
Uh, sorry pal, but you need to brush up on your history. The Finns didn’t lose the Winter War. They inflicted huge losses on the Russkis and basically achieved a stalemate.
The result was that Finland thwarted the Soviet plan to take over their entire country. I’d say that was quite an admirable accomplishment for a country of about 4 million, going up against the USSR’s 100+ million.
...pony trekking and camping...
Finland did not receive any post-WWII (Marshall Plan) loans at all. Indeed, they 'opted out' and instead paid large sums to the USSR as 'reparations'. I did some searching and found that Finland received a US loan after WWI, though, and that that was repaid. I take it that your father referred to that loan.
FWIW, Germany did pay back the Marshall Plan loans. The last payment was made in 1971. (The largest recipients by far, btw, were the UK and France. I'll assume that those were repaid in time as well(?))
The Wikipedia article provides these and further details on the Marshall Plan.
So thats why they were so successful in fighting the Russians to a standstill during the Winter War?
The “White Death” and his friends.
Simo Häyhä = “The White Death”
Do you believe that if the Finns had not brought the voracious russians to the point of defeat that Stalin would have been satisfied with just Karelia?????
They had no idea when russia attacked them that Germany would soon make russia run away from its ambitions against its former territory.
The Finns under the Great Mannerheim were and remain a lesson in courage against evil at impossible odds.
Try reading some history. The pre-war demands by the Soviet were met in the treaty. Italy tried to help the Finns, but the Germans blocked the shipments. The Finns,without any real assistance, had no choice but to settle for the terms that the Russians dictated.
You could start by reading Homer Simpson’s threads in chronological order starting with October 10.
That doesn't change the fact that they ended the war by acceding to all of the demands of the Soviet - the Baltic island bases demanded, the industrial centers. They fought a wonderful fight, but it was one that they couldn't win - they were cut off on all sides by the end.
I believe that your dad was refering to WWI debts owed to the USA. Finland and Hungary were the only nations not to simply walk away from them in the 30’s.
france, britain russia, our allies all reputiated them .
In WWII Finland and Hungary were of course fighting against the russians and got no loans
You don’t seem to get it.
Those valiant men saved their nation.
They had to give up something or face extermination.
They could not know Germany would soon attack the communists.
Are you kidding???
Greece can offer Findland ALL of the artwork in the National Museum in Athens.
If that's not enough, there are plenty of other antiquities in Greece. Including the Parthenon! The Erectheon! The Praxililes now at Olympia!
If the Greeks can't live within their means, they can pay for their foolishness with their national treasures.
MESSAGE TO FINNS: DEMAND COLLATERAL! THE GREEKS CAN PAY IT!
It's good to know that there are some people out there with common sense.
The Greeks are still complaining about the loss of the Elgin Marbles, the Venus de Milo, the Victory of Samothrace! Maybe the loss of the bronze Poseidon (now in the National Museum) will knock some sense into their heads.
I do not feel sorry for them one bit. They knew the consequences of their folly. They can jolly well watch them come to fruition.
If ANYBODY ought to know the connection between hubris and denial (on the one hand) and tragedy (on the other) it's the Greeks!
Let 'em re-learn history!
They could not know Germany would soon attack the communists
It wasn't 'soon' It was a year and a half from the fall of 1939 (demands began in early fall, fighting started in November) until June 1941 when Hitler moved against the Reds.
Thanks for the link. Really interesting. I never knew about the Winter War. That rifle, the Mosin Nagant, was on Top Shot last season, I think.
>> Try reading some history. <<
I have. And I’ve done a fair amount of traveling in Finland.
>> The pre-war demands by the Soviet were met in the treaty. <<
Yes, but after those initial pre-war demands were turned down, the Soviets upped the ante by trying openly to take over the whole of Finland.
They established a puppet government, infiltrated Finnish communist agents, dropped millions of propaganda leaflets, engaged in saturation radio broadcasting, and worked diligently to stir an uprising among the Finnish working classes. Their efforts failed, thanks not only to patriotic resistance by the Finnish populace and the cold-weather skills of the Finnish infantry, but also thanks to the shrewd tactics of Mannerheim and the correspondinly bad leadership of the Red Army.
In your view, the Finns should simply have acquiesed right off the bat — like the Estonians and Latvians did — and should thereby have allowed the Soviets to establish bases far inside Finnish territory.
We know what happened to Estonia and Latvia. Their giving in to the Soviets led to the total loss of their independence. If the Finns had followed your advice and had given in rather than fight, the Russkis would soon have occupied the whole of Finland also, right up to the Swedish border. That clearly was what they wanted, because one of their aims was to restore Finland as a part of the Soviet realm, just as it was formally a part of the Russian Empire from 1809 until 1917.
Now if you want to say that saving Finland from total Soviet control was a form of “losing” the Winter War, then go ahead. But I don’t think you’ll find much agreement from those who have more than just a superficial knowledge of the affair.
>> They can just as easily check out nearby Turkey for the Turkish Experience. <<
Maybe that’s for Finnish gay men, but probably not for hot Finnish women.
Hmm ~ maybe they’d prefer the Washington DC Metro Area.
Thank you for that interesting reference. Good to see that the US also gave assistance to Finland - under the Soviet radar.
But, as initially stated, Finland did not receive monetary loans that had to be repaid.
Ah. That explains it. You've done a good job of absorbing Finnish propaganda.
>> You’ve done a good job of absorbing Finnish propaganda <<
Thanks for your logical and persuasive contribution to the discussion!