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Coming soon: Rubio ‘birthers’
The Daily Caller ^ | August 24, 2011 | Matt Lewis

Posted on 08/24/2011 12:34:43 PM PDT by rightwingintelligentsia

Despite my hopes, Sen. Marco Rubio will not run for president in 2012. But that doesn’t mean he won’t soon be within a heartbeat of the presidency. As the New Yorker’s Ryan Lizza asked on Twitter: “Is it time to rename GOP primaries ‘the contest to become Marco Rubio’s running mate’?”

Indeed, despite his protestations, Rubio has to be on the short list of potential GOP running mates.

But the downside is that there is already a movement afoot (led by some on the fringe) to disqualify him from serving as president (which would presumably disqualify him from serving as vice president). That’s right — some are arguing that Rubio is not eligible because he is not a “natural born citizen.”

Here’s how the logic works (according to World Net Daily’s Joe Kovacs): “While the Constitution does not define ‘natural-born citizen,’ there is strong evidence that the Founding Fathers understood it to mean someone born of two American citizens.”

Kovacs (and he is not alone) goes on to reason that Rubio’s “eligibility is in doubt” because — though his parents were legal U.S. residents when he was born — they were not yet naturalized citizens.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailycaller.com ...


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: birthers; eligibility; naturalborncitizen; rubio
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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To: arrogantsob

Once a candidate vets Marco Rubio, he’ll not be asked to run as their VP candidate.


51 posted on 08/24/2011 1:57:32 PM PDT by shield (Rev 2:9 Woe unto those who say they are Judahites and are not, but are of the syna GOG ue of Satan.)
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To: ASA Vet

I stand corrected. I was unaware “legal resident” is a specific legal status.

I thought it just meant he was here legally, under whatever category.


52 posted on 08/24/2011 1:59:44 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: null and void
You notice the Obot after-birthers have returned to the same bs arguments they used over two years ago?
53 posted on 08/24/2011 2:03:39 PM PDT by ASA Vet (Natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. De Vattel)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

I give no credibility (and read no further) for writing as offensive as what you posted.


54 posted on 08/24/2011 2:06:27 PM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Are you better off now than you were four trillion dollars ago?)
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To: ASA Vet
You notice the Obot after-birthers have returned to the same bs arguments they used over two years ago?

When the truth is not on your side, all you can do is keep repeating the lies.

The spiritual leader of all socialists told them that if they repeat it loud enough and long enough it becomes the truth.

55 posted on 08/24/2011 2:11:15 PM PDT by null and void (Day 943 of America's holiday from reality...)
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To: Steel Wolf

Nice try.


56 posted on 08/24/2011 2:24:26 PM PDT by roaddog727 (It's the Constitution, Stupid!)
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To: rightwingintelligentsia

Not "coming soon" ... it's already been discussed. Love Marco Rubio, but his parents were not naturalized citizens at the time of his birth. Sorry Marco. But do not be offended, Mr. Rubio! You are great man and a great leader. Ascend to any office you desire within the constraints of our Founders' Constitution. Just like Jindal, we'll admire you all the more for not trying to break the rules -- unlike our liberal counterparts who have no honor or pride.


57 posted on 08/24/2011 2:24:36 PM PDT by so_real ( "The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools.")
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To: Sherman Logan
All the objections I saw before 0bama won the election had to do with dual citizenship or that he wasn't REALLY born in Hawaii.

It was only after the election that the Vattel “born in country of two citizen parents” became the standard that everybody had to accept and the definition of which was given with their mother's milk and anybody who didn't accept was a traitor.

For myself I have long held that the Constitution only covers two subdivisions of U.S. citizen - ones who are naturally born into that condition and those that must be “naturalized”.

58 posted on 08/24/2011 2:28:46 PM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: Las Vegas Ron

Cuba was a protectorate at the time Fidel took over and remained so for some time. That’s the reason we still have Guantanamo.

Marco Rubio was born here in the US, and his parents were both legal US citizens or immigrants at that time.

My point is that regardless of what certain people on this forum think, it has already been formally determined, both by Congress and by precedent, that the only thing necessary for US citizenship (as things are and have been up to this point) is birth on US soil.


59 posted on 08/24/2011 2:33:13 PM PDT by livius
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To: Steel Wolf

“...Rubio is an American citizen under the same legal definition that Barack Obama is. The Supreme Court ruled that’s good enough, and precedent has been set.”

The Supreme Court ruled this when?


60 posted on 08/24/2011 2:35:28 PM PDT by SatinDoll (NO FOREIGN NATIONALS AS OUR PRESIDENT!)
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To: Palter

Do both parents have to be US Citizens to make the child NBC?

According to the primary author of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution Rep. John Bingham, "yes" : "every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen". Furthermore, in 1862 he stated "There is not a textbook referred to in any court which does not recognise the principle that I assert." while discussing his understanding of U.S. citizenship. The common understanding is that both "jus soli" and "jus sanguinis" are required.


61 posted on 08/24/2011 2:36:16 PM PDT by so_real ( "The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools.")
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To: livius
both by Congress and by precedent, that the only thing necessary for US citizenship (as things are and have been up to this point) is birth on US soil.

That does appear to be where we are at this point, though MINOR v. HAPPERSETT says otherwise.

62 posted on 08/24/2011 2:44:06 PM PDT by Las Vegas Ron (Rush Limbaugh = the Beethoven of talk radio)
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To: allmendream
It was only after the election that the Vattel “born in country of two citizen parents”

It has been pointed out to several times on other threads (by me at least once) that is not true....yet you keep posting the same lies.

63 posted on 08/24/2011 2:48:35 PM PDT by Las Vegas Ron (Rush Limbaugh = the Beethoven of talk radio)
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To: Las Vegas Ron
Wrong - several times a circa 2008 pre election post was presented; arguing about dual citizenship (i.e. his father's British citizenship being passed to him) NOT that the mere fact of not having a citizen father at the time of his birth disqualified him.

Please present a contemporaneous post citing the Vattel definition of ‘born in country of two citizen parents’ argument here on FR. I would like to see it.

Even if you can find that elusive ONE post - it was most certainly NOT the definition that everyone knew before 2008 and that was on every-body’s lips during eligibility arguments before the election.

It is revisionist history to say that the Vattel argument was in wide circulation here on FR on eligibility threads before the election.

64 posted on 08/24/2011 2:53:37 PM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: cripplecreek
If he’s smart, Rubio will let the “birthers” stew for a few months and very publicly prove his eligibility.

Lets hope then he has better forgers than the Won.

65 posted on 08/24/2011 2:55:06 PM PDT by itsahoot (--I will still vote for Sarah Palin, even if she doesn't run--Face it, where I live no (R) can win.)
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To: allmendream

You’re a liar, and a waste of time.


66 posted on 08/24/2011 2:58:16 PM PDT by Las Vegas Ron (Rush Limbaugh = the Beethoven of talk radio)
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To: Steel Wolf
Neither one of them is naturalized, they were citizens due to the location of their birth. Ergo, Obama's swearing in set precedence for what was previously a contested legal issue.

Ceremony = Court Opinion. Yep guess you are right.

I agree however that that ceremony brings Robert's true beliefs on the Constitution into question.

67 posted on 08/24/2011 2:58:45 PM PDT by itsahoot (--I will still vote for Sarah Palin, even if she doesn't run--Face it, where I live no (R) can win.)
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To: Jim Scott
I believe that Marco Rubio meets the constitutional requirements that describe a 'natural born citizen'

Great we have went from ceremony = Court Opinion to what we believe = Court Opinion.

68 posted on 08/24/2011 3:01:46 PM PDT by itsahoot (--I will still vote for Sarah Palin, even if she doesn't run--Face it, where I live no (R) can win.)
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To: allmendream; All

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2739306/posts?page=410#410


69 posted on 08/24/2011 3:03:41 PM PDT by Las Vegas Ron (Rush Limbaugh = the Beethoven of talk radio)
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To: Las Vegas Ron
Yes, and not ONE of those quoted Vattel.

Where was the mighty Vattel argument during the election?

Nowhere in what you posted.

It all had to do with 0bama’s mom being too young to confer automatic U.S. citizenship... IF he wasn't born in country (Hawaii is).

It had to do with English law granting children of citizens citizenship at birth (the dual citizenship argument).

Not one single post mentioned Vattel or said the criteria was clearly “born in country of two citizen parents”.

FAIL.

Moreover looking over the eligibility threads from that time it is easy to see that the Vattel definition (that apparently you are a traitor if you do not accept and learned at your mother's breast) is as rare as the fabled unicorn.

70 posted on 08/24/2011 3:10:48 PM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: Steel Wolf; Sherman Logan

At least we KNOW where Rubio was born and probably would have access to an original certified HARDCOPY, unlike a certain marxist mocha man currently occupying the White House (illegally).


71 posted on 08/24/2011 3:12:11 PM PDT by Hotlanta Mike (TeaNami)
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To: Sherman Logan

For those who think parentage matters, however, Obama has a much better claim than Rubio.


Based on what, a manipulated pdf file released on April 27th?


72 posted on 08/24/2011 3:13:36 PM PDT by Hotlanta Mike (TeaNami)
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To: Las Vegas Ron
OK, upon rereading carefully, a single post said the criteria was “born in country of two citizen parents”.

ONE.

Vattel wasn't sourced.

What is clear from those threads is that this was NOT the commonly accepted definition among those doubting his eligibility - this “consensus” was arrived at much later.

73 posted on 08/24/2011 3:16:43 PM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: ASA Vet; null and void

You notice the Obot after-birthers have returned to the same bs arguments they used over two years ago?


Recycled tripe, just like their marxist dogma...


74 posted on 08/24/2011 3:17:22 PM PDT by Hotlanta Mike (TeaNami)
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To: Lurking Libertarian; EDINVA
"Why would the Framers have put that specific term in the Constitution? They set out eligibility requirements for Senator, Representatives and POTUS. Only the last has that phrase inserted in those qualifications.

Because they didn't want naturalized citizens to be President.

---------------------------

Wrong.

They didn't want someone with foreign intrigue or influence, (post Grandfather clause) as the Commander in Chief.

See Jay's letter.

75 posted on 08/24/2011 3:17:34 PM PDT by rxsid (HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN? - Leo Donofrio (2009))
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To: Steel Wolf
SCOTUS never ruled that someone born owing allegience to a foreign crown is Commander in Chief eligibile.

There is no such "legal" definition.

76 posted on 08/24/2011 3:19:04 PM PDT by rxsid (HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN? - Leo Donofrio (2009))
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To: so_real
According to the primary author of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution Rep. John Bingham, "yes" : "every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen". Furthermore, in 1862 he stated "There is not a textbook referred to in any court which does not recognise the principle that I assert." while discussing his understanding of U.S. citizenship. The common understanding is that both "jus soli" and "jus sanguinis" are required.

Mr. Bingham must not have read William Rawle then. In his 1829, "A View of the Constitution of the United States" Rawle states: "The citizens of each state constituted the citizens of the United States when the Constitution was adopted. The rights which appertained to them as citizens of those respective commonwealths, accompanied them in the formation of the great, compound commonwealth which ensued. They became citizens of the latter, without ceasing to be citizens of the former, and he who was subsequently born a citizen of a state, became at the moment of his birth a citizen of the United States. Therefore every person born within the United States, its territories or districts, whether the parents are citizens or aliens, is a natural born citizen in the sense of the Constitution, and entitled to all the rights and privileges appertaining to that capacity." Rawle was considered one of the foremost experts on the Constitution.

77 posted on 08/24/2011 3:20:10 PM PDT by SoJoCo
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius
a "natural born Citizen" isn't "mythical."

It's plainly listed as a requirement for the Commander in Chief.

Office Citizenship Age Residency (or years citizen)
President & Commander in Chief (1 of 1) natural born Citizen 35 14 years resident
Senator (1 of many) Citizen 30 9 years a Citizen
Represantative (1 of many) Citizen 25 7 years a Citizen

78 posted on 08/24/2011 3:20:33 PM PDT by rxsid (HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN? - Leo Donofrio (2009))
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To: Steel Wolf
No he is not, Obummer has one parent that was a natural born citizen, rubio has none.
79 posted on 08/24/2011 3:21:48 PM PDT by org.whodat (What does the Republican party stand for////??? absolutely nothing.)
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To: allmendream; Las Vegas Ron; bushpilot1
Shrillery thinks mightily of Vattel:

Statement On the Occasion of Switzerland’s National Day
Press Statement

Hillary Rodham Clinton
Secretary of State
Washington, DC
July 29, 2011
On behalf of President Obama and the people of the United States, I am delighted to congratulate the people of Switzerland on the 720th anniversary of your republic this August 1.

In the seven centuries since the first Federal Charter was signed, the Swiss Confederation has played an important role in world affairs. Your rich history of neutrality gives you the ability to mediate and reconcile difficult conflicts. You have been a vital partner for over 30 years representing American interests in Iran and other countries throughout the world.

America’s Founders were inspired by the ideas and values of early Swiss philosophers like Jean-Jacques Burlamaqui and Emer de Vattel, and the 1848 Swiss Constitution was influenced by our own U.S. Constitution. Swiss commitment to democracy is an example for nations and people everywhere who yearn for greater freedoms and human rights.

As you celebrate this special day, know that the United States stands with you and we look forward to a future filled with friendship and cooperation.


80 posted on 08/24/2011 3:26:12 PM PDT by rxsid (HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN? - Leo Donofrio (2009))
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To: allmendream; Las Vegas Ron

allmendream, I was in the same thread Las Vegas Ron just referenced. You were spreading lies back then, shown the truth, and yet you still spread the same lies today ... Just what is your agenda here?


81 posted on 08/24/2011 3:27:21 PM PDT by so_real ( "The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools.")
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To: so_real
It isn't a lie. Vattel was not quoted - in all that there was only ONE poster who said the criteria was ‘born in country of two citizen parents’.

So out of THOUSANDS of posts in DOZENS of threads on 0bama’s eligibility before the election - there was found a single post that laid out the criteria that is supposedly cannon law that everyone knows and is a traitor unless they accept.

So why did so few people know follow and cite the Vattel definition until after the election?

Why do birthers insist this was something that everybody knew - that in fact Congress is treasonous for not at that time knowing and accepting and acting upon that knowledge?

It was, at that time, a very esoteric and rare view of the law.

One post. Wow. That proves everybody knew it!!!!/s

82 posted on 08/24/2011 3:32:53 PM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: so_real; allmendream
I deliberately saved a link a while back just for when this circumstance would arise...danged if I can find it though.

Allmendream is fos.

83 posted on 08/24/2011 3:35:00 PM PDT by Las Vegas Ron (Rush Limbaugh = the Beethoven of talk radio)
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To: Las Vegas Ron
Looking at those threads it is obvious that the Vattel definition was not AT ALL in wide circulation.

The arguments are all over the map.

You showed a single post that laid out the currently (birther) accepted criteria.

And based upon that single post I stand by my original statement.....

“It was only after the election that the Vattel “born in country of two citizen parents” became the standard that everybody had to accept and the definition of which was given with their mother's milk and anybody who didn't accept was a traitor.”

A single post amid a hundred and one contrary arguments does not establish that the Vattel definition was widely known and widely accepted as “the standard that everybody had to accept” circa 2008.

It is only NOW that Congress all knew he was ineligible based upon that definition and are traitors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

84 posted on 08/24/2011 3:39:50 PM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: originalbuckeye
What happened is that a lot of morons got hung up on the term "Native born citizen." Here is what the deal is. ALL "native born citizens" are also natural born citizens. However, not all natural born citizens are native born citizens (i.e. born in the geographic USA). An example of the latter is John McCain. He is a natural born citizen because both of his parents are U.S. citizens. However, he is not a native born citizen because he was born in Panama. Another such example was George Romney. Born in Mexico but both parents were U.S. citizens. So he was also a "natural born citizen" but NOT native born.

An oatmeal cookie to the next idiot who posts that Marco Rubio is native born but not natural born citizen. If you are native born in the USA then you MUST also be natural born.

85 posted on 08/24/2011 3:39:59 PM PDT by PJ-Comix (aka Big Daddy Goo-Goo)
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To: SoJoCo

Simple logic ... if Rawle's opinion was the "normal", the common understanding of the term in question, as stated in your excerpt ... there would have been no need for a 14th Amendment whatsoever. And, yet, there it is. If I recall correctly, Rawle even acknowledged another definition for natural born citizen existed at the time of his prominence. (Trust but verify, I'll have to try and dig that up.) Claiming that his was the generally excepted definition flies in the face of the necessity for the 14th Amendment.


86 posted on 08/24/2011 3:44:31 PM PDT by so_real ( "The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools.")
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To: allmendream

Don't be dense. I don't recall Vattel ever being mentioned in my high school civics class, but I certainly was taught what the requirements to be President were. One does not necessitate the other for teenagers. Shame my high school didn't go into the ridiculous detail you desire on the topic for that age group. Thousands of posts in dozens of threads represent the understanding of hundreds of people on the topic, myself included. I see no reason not to take any of them at their word.


87 posted on 08/24/2011 3:51:13 PM PDT by so_real ( "The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools.")
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To: PJ-Comix

The definition of “natural born citizen” was decided on by the Supreme Court in Minor vs. Happersett.

ONLY NATIONAL LAW MAKES BINDING PRECEDENT.

The Supreme Court’s definition of the natural-born citizen clause in Minor vs. Happersett is not common law, natural law, or international law. Vattel is not cited by the Supreme Court in Minor. And Vattel does not make US law. The Court’s holding in Minor is national law. It is United States law.

Those other sources may have been consulted, but when the Court held that Virginia Minor was a citizen under Article II, Section 1, clause 5, because she was born in the US of citizen parents, that definition became national law. Therefore, Minor supersedes all other sources on this point. It is a direct Constitutional interpretation and definition.

THE EXPRESS LANE TO NATURAL BORN CLARITY, Leo Donofrio, esq.
http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2011/06/30/the-express-lane-to-natural-born-clarity/


88 posted on 08/24/2011 3:59:38 PM PDT by SatinDoll (NO FOREIGN NATIONALS AS OUR PRESIDENT!)
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To: so_real
It isn't about who was right or wrong back then or what they learned in civics class, or if they knew the name Vattel.

What it is about is that birther arguments back then were all over the map and “born in country of two citizen parents” was NOT the words on most people's lips - that supposedly we all should know from civics class.

Why not?

Why out of thousands of posts on dozens of threads discussing 0bama’s eligibility is it so RARE (one example) to find a clear cut “born in country of two citizen parents” criteria?

Because it was, at that time, a rather rare and esoteric view of the law. It was not axiomatic. It was not clear cut. It was not widely known. It was not something that Congress was obviously aware of and traitorous for not following.

That is my point.

People did bring up eligibility before the election - and most arguments had to do with dual citizenship or the notion that 0bama wasn't really born in Hawaii.

Only later did the Vattel argument gain wide acceptance and become something we all knew or should have known and any Congress-member or Elector who didn't raise it as an objection was knowingly a traitor.

89 posted on 08/24/2011 4:01:35 PM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: so_real

You apparently were here,as I was, during the 2008 election.

When was the first time YOU raised the “born in country of two citizen parents” standard?

Where are your posts on the subject from back then - mentioning what you supposedly learned in civics class?


90 posted on 08/24/2011 4:14:57 PM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: rxsid
They didn't want someone with foreign intrigue or influence, (post Grandfather clause) as the Commander in Chief.

They had no problem with foreign influence. The President has to be 35 years old, but only has to be a resident of the U.S. for 14 years. So the someone who was born a U.S. citizen but raised in a foreign country from ages 1-21 could return to the U.S. and be elected President 14 years later.

91 posted on 08/24/2011 4:19:47 PM PDT by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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To: allmendream
When was the first time YOU raised the “born in country of two citizen parents” standard?

I'm guessing NEVER. In school civics courses it was VERY clear that there were only TWO types of citizens...Natural born and naturalized. ALL native born citizens (born in the geographic USA) are also natural born citizens. They are NOT naturalized. However, suddenly the NUtcases have "discovered" a third class of citizen (from 2008 on) which are native born citizens who are somehow not natural born citizens. NOBODY ever heard these DOPEY citizenship arguments prior to 2008.

92 posted on 08/24/2011 4:20:41 PM PDT by PJ-Comix (aka Big Daddy Goo-Goo)
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To: allmendream

Please delete if I did something wrong since I saved the entire post.
Free Republic
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Why the 14th Amendment does not confer citizenship on the children of illegal aliens
House Subcommittee on Immigration and Claims ^ | June 25, 1997 | Prof. Edward J. Erler
Posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 6:37:36 PM by La Lydia
It is my considered opinion that Congress has authority under Section 5 of the Fourteenth Amendment to define the jurisdiction of the United States. Indeed, it is my contention that Congress has exercised that power on many occasions, most recently in the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986. Senator Jacob Howard, the author of the citizenship clause in the Fourteenth Amendment, defined who would fall within the “jurisdiction of the United States”:
[E]very person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States. This has long been a great desideratum in the jurisprudence and legislation of this country.
Clearly, the author of the citizenship clause intended to count “foreigners,” “aliens,” and those born to “ambassadors or foreign ministers” as outside the “jurisdiction of the United States.” Senator Howard knew, as his reference to natural law indicates, that the republican basis for citizenship is consent. This is the natural law principle of the Declaration of Independence that proclaims that legitimate governments derive “their just powers from the consent of the governed.”
Senator Lyman Trumbull, Chairman of the Judiciary Committee and a powerful supporter of the Fourteenth Amendment, remarked on May 30th, 1866, that the jurisdiction clause includes those “Not owing allegiance to anybody else. . . It is only those persons who come completely within our jurisdiction, who are subject to our laws, that we think of making citizens; and there can be no objection to the proposition that such persons should be citizens.” This was familiar language. The Civil Rights Act of 1866 had defined citizens of the United States as “all persons born in the United States, and not subject to any foreign power, excluding Indians not taxed.” It is universally agreed that the immediate impulse for the passage of the fourteenth amendment was to constitutionalize the Civil Rights Act of 1866. This was an attempt to put the question of citizenship and matters of Federal civil rights beyond the reach of simple congressional majorities. Thus it is clear that the idea of allegiance (”not subject to any foreign power”) was somehow central to understanding the jurisdiction clause of the fourteenth amendment.
Much of the debate about the jurisdiction clause in the Congress centered on the status of Indians. The immediate question was whether the fourteenth amendment would confer citizenship upon the Indians as well as upon the newly freed slaves. The former slaves, of course, had been born in the United States and had always been subject to its jurisdiction. Was the same true of Indians? Indians were surely born in the United States, but were they subject to its jurisdiction in the sense of “[n]ot owing allegiance to anybody else?” Senator Trumbull noted that “[t]he provision . . . that all persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens’. . . means subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof.” Trumbull proceeded to deny that Indians were “in any sense subject to the complete jurisdiction of the United Sates . . . We make treaties with them, and therefore they are not subject to our jurisdiction. . . . It cannot be said of any Indian who owes allegiance, partial allegiance if you please, to some other Government that he is subject to the jurisdiction of the United States’.”
The author of the citizenship clause, Senator Howard, emphatically agreed with Trumbull’s assessment that Indians would not become citizens of the United States as a result of the passage of the fourteenth amendment:
the word jurisdiction,’ as here employed, ought to be construed so as to imply a full and complete jurisdiction on the part of the United States, coextensive in all respects with the constitutional power of the United States, whether exercised by Congress, by the executive, or by the judicial department; that is to say, the same jurisdiction in extent and quality as applies to every citizen of the United States now. Certain, gentlemen cannot contend that an Indian belonging to a tribe, although born within the limits of a State, is subject to this full and complete jurisdiction.
Clearly, insofar as Indians owed tribal allegiance they were not within the jurisdiction of the United States, even though there were born within its territorial limits and in many instances subject to its laws. It is important to note here that jurisdiction does not mean simply subject to the laws of the United States. Rather, it refers specifically to political jurisdiction in the sense of allegiance. Aliens in the United States are properly subject to the laws of the United States and the jurisdiction of its courts; but this is not the same as owing allegiance to the United States. Aliens subject to the laws of the United States still owe allegiance to another country and are thus not within the political jurisdiction of the United States the only jurisdiction contemplated by the fourteenth amendment.
In 1870, the Senate directed the Judiciary Committee to “report to the Senate the effect of the fourteenth amendment to the Constitution upon the Indian tribes of the country; and whether by the provisions thereof the Indians are not citizens of the United States.” The Committee report noted that “[t]he inference is irresistible that the amendment was intended to recognize the change in the status of the former slave which had been effected during the war, while it recognizes no change in the status of the Indians. The report’s conclusion was unequivocal:
those who framed the fourteenth amendment, and the Congress which proposed it, as well as the legislatures which adopted it, understood that the Indian tribes were not made citizens, but were excluded by the restricting phrase, “and subject to the jurisdiction,” and that such has been the universal understanding of all our public men since the amendment became a part of the Constitution.
Thus it seems to be beyond cavil that the jurisdiction clause of the fourteenth amendment was intended by its framers to have independent force; not all persons born in the geographical limits of the United States are within the jurisdiction of the United States. To be within the jurisdiction of the United States means to be within its political jurisdiction. Those who today advocate birth-right citizenship for children of illegal aliens born within the geographical boundaries of the United States believe that the fourteenth amendment extends to these children what the framers of the fourteenth amendment said did not extend to Native Americans.
As the Supreme Court said in Elk v. Wilkins (1884), “[t]he evident meaning of [the jurisdiction clause] is, not merely subject in some respect or degree to the to the jurisdiction of the United States, but completely subject to their political jurisdiction and owing them direct and immediate allegiance . . . Indians, born within the territorial limits of the United States, members of and owing immediate allegiance to one of the Indian Tribes, an alien though dependent power, although in a geographical sense born in the United States, are no more born in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,’ . . . than the children of subjects of any foreign government born within the domain of that government; or the children, born within the United States, of ambassadors or other public ministers of foreign Nations.” In this case, Elk had renounced his tribal allegiance and had lived for some years apart from the tribe. But the Court was adamant that the ascription of citizenship could not be a unilateral or self-selected act. “The alien and dependent condition of the members of the Indian Tribes could not be put off at their own will, without the action or assent of the United States” signified either by treaty or legislation. Neither “the Indian Tribes” nor “individual members of those Tribes,” no more than “other foreigners” can “become citizens of their own will.” It must be emphasized that no individual can be made a citizen against his will or consent. Yet, self-selected citizenship is not enough; it must be ratified by those are already members of the political community. As the Court concluded, the jurisdiction requirement of the fourteenth amendment embodied “the principle that no one can become a citizen of a nation without its consent.”
The Supreme Court in Elk noted that several congressional acts had been passed subsequent to the fourteenth amendment to bring various Indian tribes within the jurisdiction of the United States, acts “which would have been superfluous if they were or might become, without an action of the government, citizens of the United States.” In this regard, the Court mentions the “Act of July 15, 1870,” extending the jurisdiction of the United States to any member of the Winnebago tribe who desired to become a citizen. A similar act was passed on March 3, 1873, extending jurisdiction to members of the Miami tribe of Kansas. Indeed, this was the method used by Congress exercising its section 5 powers to enforce the provisions of the fourteenth amendment to bring various members of Indian tribes within the jurisdiction of the United States. General legislation was passed in the Indian Citizenship Act of 1924 which provided that “all non-citizen Indians born within the territorial limits of the United States be, and they are hereby, declared to be citizens of the United States.” Most recently, the amnesty provision of the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 extended the jurisdiction of the United States to include illegal aliens residing in the United States for a specified period. Thus, Congress has a long history of exercising its section 5 powers to define who falls within the jurisdiction of the United States.
In the case of the children born to aliens illegally in the United States, their citizenship would follow the citizenship of their parents or be determined by the laws of the country in which the parents hold citizenship. The fact that illegal aliens have violated laws of the United States precludes any possibility that they can be properly said to be within the jurisdiction of the United States as the aliens surely have demonstrated that they do not believe themselves to be subject to the laws of the United States, or are only partially subject. Contrary to a currently fashionable argument, the denial of birth-right citizenship to children of illegal aliens does not punish the children for the sins of the parents because the children don’t have a right to citizenship in the first place they are being denied nothing that is rightfully theirs. It would, of course, be a different matter for the children born of legal aliens who have been admitted by the laws of the United States. Whether their children would be citizens at birth or upon the attainment of citizenship by the parents would be a matter for Congress to determine.
Congress, of course, has plenary power, under terms of Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution, “to establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization.” By necessary inference, Congress has the power to regulate immigration and set the terms by which those who are legally admitted can remain in the country. It certainly can establish the standards for which the contract of citizenship can be offered and the qualifications of those to whom it will be proffered. I believe that Congress is fully competent, under the fourteenth amendment, to pass legislation defining those who are “subject to the jurisdiction” of the United States. It does not require a constitutional amendment to withhold citizenship from children born in the United States of illegal alien parents. Their parents are not “subject to the jurisdiction” of the United States and they seek citizenship for their children without the consent of the nation. It defies logic to insist that an illegal act on the part of parents can confer the boon of citizenship upon their children. The nation has specified the terms of its consent in the uniform rules for naturalization and laws governing immigration.
The argument for birth-right citizenship is, of course, more suitable to feudalism than it is to republicanism. Under the feudal concept of citizenship, anyone born under the protection of the sovereign owed perpetual allegiance or fealty to the sovereign. It is hardly credible that the framers of the American Constitution would have contemplated a basis for citizenship that had its origins in the feudal regime. Indeed, in basing citizenship on the consent of the governed, the obligations of citizenship were placed on an entirely new and republican basis. The Reconstruction Congress recognized this point when it passed the Expatriation Act of 1868. This act a companion piece to the fourteenth amendment was an explicit rejection of birth-right citizenship as the ground for American citizenship. It simply declared that “the right of expatriation is a natural and inherent right of all people, indispensable to the enjoyment of the rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.” Thus the English common law doctrine of birth-right citizenship was decisively rejected as incompatible with the principles of consent embodied in the Declaration of Independence. After all, the Declaration of Independence announced to the world that Americans no longer considered themselves to be British citizens. If Americans held to the notion of birth-right citizenship, they would have been incapable of declaring their independence from Britain!
Senator Howard, the author of the fourteenth amendment’s citizenship clause, stated in his support of the Expatriation Act that the principles of the Declaration of Independence necessarily mean that “the right of expatriation. . .is inherent and natural in man as man. . .” The notion of birth-right citizenship was frequently described as an “indefensible feudal doctrine of indefeasible allegiance.” One member of the House of Representative gave expression to the general sense of the Congress when he concluded that “[i]t is high time that feudalism were driven from our shores and eliminated from our law, and now is the time to declare it.”
Blackstone had described the allegiance required by the English doctrine of birth-right citizenship in these terms:
Natural allegiance is such as is due from all men born within the king’s dominions immediately upon their birth. For, immediately upon their birth, they are under the king’s protection . . . . Natural allegiance is therefore a debt of gratitude; which cannot be forfeited, canceled, or altered, by any change of time, place, or circumstance . . . For it is a principle of universal law, that the natural-born subject of one prince cannot by any act of his own, no, not by swearing allegiance to another, put off or discharge his natural allegiance to the former: for this natural allegiance was intrinsic, and primitive, and antecedent to the other; and cannot be divested without the concurrence act of that prince to whom it was first due.
The English common law became a part of the American system only insofar as it was consistent with the principles of republican government. James Madison wrote that one “fundamental principle of the revolution” was the assertion of the competence of American legislatures to pass legislation independently of the common law. In some cases, aspects of the common law were accepted as a matter of convenience, in others it was rejected outright as incompatible with the principles of a free and self-governing nation. Surely the notion of birth-right citizenship, with its requirement of indefeasible allegiance to a king, was one of those aspects of the common that was rejected by the principles of the Declaration of Independence.
Among a host of other considerations, birth-right citizenship denies that the people always retain the natural right to revolution, a right that is the fundamental right of rights described in the Declaration of Independence. As Representative Norman B. Judd remarked on the floor of the House in the debate over the Expatriation Act, “the English common law was not adopted. . . except so far as applicable to our situation and our form of government. . . . The very origin and nature of our institutions utterly forbid the idea that the doctrine of perpetual allegiance’ is consistent with our institutions.” Representative Judd further specified the precise sense in which the common law doctrine of birth-right citizenship was inconsistent with the principles of “our institutions:” “The right of expatriation is clearly implied as inalienable in the enumeration of rights in the Declaration of Independence, and its obstruction was one of the wrongs charged by the colonies against the English crown.” There can be no doubt whatsoever that the fortieth Congress that passed the Expatriation Act believed that it contained a thoroughgoing repudiation of the English common law notion of birth-right citizenship and its attendant requirement of perpetual allegiance. Since this Act was contemporaneous with the adoption of the fourteenth amendment, there can be little doubt that it also embraced the principle of citizenship that was embodied in the amendment. Reciprocal consent is the principle of citizenship embraced in the fourteenth amendment and the Expatriation Act is a confirmation of that principle.
Chief Justice Fuller remarked in his dissenting opinion in United States v. Wong Kim Ark (1898), that in the American Revolution “when the sovereignty of the Crown was thrown off and an independent government established, every rule of the common law and every statute of England obtaining in the colonies, in derogation of the principles on which the new government was founded, was abrogated.” It was emphatically the case, Fuller rightly argued, “that the rule making locality of birth the criterion of citizenship because creating a permanent tie of allegiance, no more survived the American Revolution than the same rule survived the French Revolution.” Indeed, the consensual basis of citizenship, so far from creating a permanent and indissoluble allegiance to the sovereign, maintains “the general right of expatriation, to be exercised in subordination to the public interests and subject to regulation.”
The majority decision in Wong Kim Ark failed to make an adequate case for American adoption of the English common law basis of citizenship. Wong Kim Ark’s parents were legal residents of the United States but were rendered ineligible for citizenship by both statutes and treaty; and they still maintained their allegiance to China. The Court nevertheless held wrongly in my view that Wong Kim Ark, having been born within the territorial limits of the United States, had birth-right citizenship. The majority opinion failed to see that the English common law of birth-right citizenship was not only contrary to the principles of the founding, but had been explicitly rejected by the fourteenth amendment and the Expatriation Act. In any case, there has never been a Supreme Court opinion holding that the children of illegal aliens are entitled to American citizenship by virtue of their birth within the geographical limits of the United States. Jurisdiction is not a geographical concept; it is a matter of political allegiance. Birth-right citizenship has no place in republican government; it is the relic of monarchy and should be recognized as such once again by Congress.

TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Click to Add Topic
KEYWORDS: aliens; anchorbabies; illegalimmigration; immigration; openborders; ruleoflaw; Click to Add Keyword

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I attended this hearing. The Dems on the subcommittee were left speechless.
Edward J. Erler Professor of Political Science, California State University, San Bernardino and Senior Fellow, The Claremont Institute for the Study of Statesmanship and Political Philosophy
1 posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 6:37:38 PM by La Lydia
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To: La Lydia
...I’m glad this issue is picking up speed in time for November...it puts the Dems in the position of having to defend “anchor babies”

2 posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 6:42:04 PM by STONEWALLS
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To: STONEWALLS
...I’m glad this issue is picking up speed in time for November...it puts the Dems in the position of having to defend “anchor babies”

Also Islam.
3 posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 6:45:28 PM by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it! www.FairTaxNation.com)
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To: La Lydia
According to Ann Coulter, we have this abomination MISinterpretation of the 14th Amendment, thanks to a FOOTNOTE from Justice Brennan. So, history and the words from those who wrote the dang language of the 14th Amendment got tossed out, all because ONE liberal activist in a black robe decided to say otherwise. Ridiculous!
4 posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 6:45:57 PM by Sister_T (”Calling ILLEGAL aliens “immigrants” is like calling shoplifters ‘customers’!”-UCFRoadWarrior ><>)
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To: La Lydia
SAVE
5 posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 6:46:10 PM by Rumplemeyer
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To: La Lydia
The Washington elites don’t like any of this talk about what constitutes Citizenry, to many folks might start questioning the usuper in chiefs status.
6 posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 6:47:43 PM by Las Vegas Ron (People I know have papers for their mongrels.)
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To: La Lydia
The ones that count are those that sit on the Judiciary Committee like Lamar Smith. If the GOP retakes the House then I expect legislation to pass there.
In the Senate it may or may not die but if it does it’ll be an issue in 2012. So the open border clowns including Huckabee and Romney can forget about it.
7 posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 6:49:14 PM by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Las Vegas Ron
to = too
Just doing the grammar policing so other FReepers won’t have to.
8 posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 6:49:35 PM by Las Vegas Ron (People I know have papers for their mongrels.)
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
Lamar Smith was the subcommittee chair when this testimony was delivered.
9 posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 6:51:06 PM by La Lydia
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To: La Lydia
US CONSTITUTION - Article I - Section 8
The Congress shall have power to:
establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States.
-
Amendment 14 - Section 5
The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

As I understand this and other commentary I have read,
congress can simply define citizenship as they may seem fit.
No constitutional amendment is needed; just a congressional bill.
10 posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 6:51:40 PM by Repeal The 17th (If November does not turn out well, then beware of December.)
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To: Sister_T
No one called him on it. He opened the back door and the house was half full of intruders before we became aware of the fact. Pretty much like Hugo Black’s redefinition of thereligious “clauses” of the First Amendment.
11 posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 6:53:20 PM by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
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To: La Lydia
Bump
12 posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 6:53:47 PM by Jim Robinson (JUST VOTE THEM OUT! teapartyexpress.org)
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To: Repeal The 17th
I agree.
13 posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 6:54:13 PM by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
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To: La Lydia; STARWISE; SE Mom; onyx; maggief; hoosiermama; Liz
Thanks for posting this! Mark Levin talking about it now.
PING!!
14 posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 6:55:17 PM by penelopesire (FOX NEWS TRIBAL PRINCESS)
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To: AuntB; Liz; Tennessee Nana
open borders ping
15 posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 6:57:11 PM by La Lydia
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To: STONEWALLS
According to some here, this is the worst time for this to come up. This is an election year, ya know. Can’t have anything that the RATs would use to paint the GOP as racist. If not now, when? The DemocRATs and their allies in the media will continue to paint the GOP, all day, every day at any given time of the year, so that argument doesn’t make an ounce of sense.
Most Americans are opposed to granting birthright citizenship to illegal aliens. Because of the situation in Arizona, this is the perfect time to bring this up and maybe with enough of an outcry, this misinterpretation will end.
Notice, I said, “Maybe”. At least, not with this current Congress.
16 posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 6:57:34 PM by Sister_T (”Calling ILLEGAL aliens “immigrants” is like calling shoplifters ‘customers’!”-UCFRoadWarrior ><>)
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To: La Lydia
Imagine the bite we could take out of the ‘RATS favorite issue, POVERTY, if we got rid of the Copulating for Citizenship Amendment.
17 posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 7:02:36 PM by FlingWingFlyer (DemocRATS! America’s Taliban!)
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To: penelopesire
Thanks, Pen, just tuned into to Mark.
I think I’ll have to catch is his frst hour replay later tonight!
18 posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 7:06:44 PM by onyx (Sarah/Michele 2012)
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To: La Lydia
It does not require a constitutional amendment to withhold citizenship from children born in the United States of illegal alien parents. Their parents are not “subject to the jurisdiction” of the United States and they seek citizenship for their children without the consent of the nation. It defies logic to insist that an illegal act on the part of parents can confer the boon of citizenship upon their children. The nation has specified the terms of its consent in the uniform rules for naturalization and laws governing immigration.
Amen.
19 posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 7:06:44 PM by GVnana (I’m a Mama Grizzly)
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To: La Lydia
The Dems on the subcommittee were left speechless
Too much second-class public education.
20 posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 7:07:44 PM by GVnana (I’m a Mama Grizzly)
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To: La Lydia
When it comes to tribalism, all religions are tribes calling for members to follow party lines.
In that sense, using a “tribal” exemption argument is ridiculous.
21 posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 7:10:42 PM by OldNavyVet (One trillion days, at 365 days per year, is 2,739,726,027 years ... almost 3 billion years)
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
I kid you not... fed barnes was just on the Fox AllStars and said proudly... “I am for comprehensive immigration reform... AMNESTY”.
LLS
22 posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 7:19:54 PM by LibLieSlayer (WOLVERINES!)
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To: RobbyS; Sister_T
I think I’m aware of the time frame when this was decided. They forced Texas to educate Mexicans here illegally. Before the 1970s, children of illegals were not allowed to register in the TX schools. This surprised me because they did attend school in CA, where I am from. In fact, I’m aware of an Australian couple who got crosswise with immigration (long story) who were advised to put their sons in private school while they fought their battle with immigration so that the immigration judges could not say that they were taking taxpayer funded education services illegally. They enrolled the kids in boarding school in PA — cost a fortune.
23 posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 7:22:28 PM by afraidfortherepublic (Southeast Wisconsin)
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To: La Lydia
Weather or not the 14th amendment rewards citizenship to the children if illegal aliens. The 14th amendment HAS been used to legalizes the abortion of 40 million babes. Just as the 14th amendment HAS been used to rob us of our right to the definition of Marriage.
Indeed the 14th amendment has already been used to to rob us of countless other rights ranging from “Affirmative action” to incorporation.
The 14th Amendment needs to be repealed, and if it can’t be repealed politically we should look into dissolving the union. No free people should tolerate this abusive(as it has been used) amendment.
This is why I propose the simple Constitutional amendment:
{
Section 1:
The Fourteenth article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States is hereby repealed.
Section 2:
No Government in the United States shall in anyway discriminate on the account of race.
}

Indeed the 14th Amendment should never have been accepted as having been radiated in the first place given 11 of the ratifying states did so only under the gun with the explicit understanding that they would not be free unless they did sign away their rights with this amendment to the tyrannical federal government.
24 posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 7:27:35 PM by Monorprise
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To: Sister_T
Tight on Sister T!
Ann Coulter: JUSTICE BRENNAN’S FOOTNOTE GAVE US ANCHOR BABIES (Not The Constitution)
Wednesday, August 04, 2010 3:23:17 PM · by Syncro · 55 replies
AnnCoulter.Com ^ | August 4, 2010 | Ann Coulter
JUSTICE BRENNAN’S FOOTNOTE GAVE US ANCHOR BABIESAugust 4, 2010
Democrats act as if the right to run across the border when you’re 8 1/2 months pregnant, give birth in a U.S. hospital and then immediately start collecting welfare was exactly what our forebears had in mind, a sacred constitutional right, as old as the 14th Amendment itself. The louder liberals talk about some ancient constitutional right, the surer you should be that it was invented in the last few decades.
The money quote-—unconstitutional and directly from the Supreme Court (in bold below):

The very author of the citizenship clause, Sen. Jacob Howard of Michigan, expressly said: “This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers.”

In the 1884 case Elk v. Wilkins, the Supreme Court ruled that the 14th Amendment did not even confer citizenship on Indians — because they were subject to tribal jurisdiction, not U.S. jurisdiction.

For a hundred years, that was how it stood, with only one case adding the caveat that children born to legal permanent residents of the U.S., gainfully employed, and who were not employed by a foreign government would also be deemed citizens under the 14th Amendment. (United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 1898.)

And then, out of the blue in 1982, Justice Brennan slipped a footnote into his 5-4 opinion in Plyler v. Doe, asserting that “no plausible distinction with respect to Fourteenth Amendment ‘jurisdiction’ can be drawn between resident aliens whose entry into the United States was lawful, and resident aliens whose entry was unlawful.”
25 posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 7:28:31 PM by Syncro (November is hunting season. No bag limit-Ted Nugent)
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To: La Lydia
There are a handful of RINOs hiding behind the 14th to dodge the immigration issue. I heard McCain utter this nonsense today.
26 posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 7:31:55 PM by pallis
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To: Sister_T
According to Ann Coulter, we have this abomination MISinterpretation of the 14th Amendment, thanks to a FOOTNOTE from Justice Brennan. So, history and the words from those who wrote the dang language of the 14th Amendment got tossed out, all because ONE liberal activist in a black robe decided to say otherwise. Ridiculous!
Same thing happened on the Separation of Church and State issue.
27 posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 7:37:07 PM by Don Corleone (”Oil the gun..eat the cannolis. Take it to the Mattress.”)
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To: pallis
McQueeg’s lapdog Pandsey Graham as well. Graham’s making noises about wanting to amend the Fourteenth to explicitly prevent birthright citizenship. The guy’s a lawyer, he knows damn good and well that Congress and the President could do it anytime they wanted by simply passing legislation to enforce it, as per Section 5. It’s nothing more than a sound bite he can throw at the restless Republicans in South Carolina to try and sound tough on immigration as he tries to help McQueeg and the Rats sneak through “comprehensive immigration reform”—otherwise known as amnesty.
Build the fence. Secure the border. Deport. NOW.
}:-)4
28 posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 7:40:42 PM by Moose4 (November 2, 2010—the day that “YES WE CAN” becomes “OH NO YOU DIN’T”)
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To: LibLieSlayer
Freddy’s been saying that right along. He was a big supporter for Bush’s amnesty too.
29 posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 7:44:37 PM by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: La Lydia
bump
30 posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 7:52:10 PM by RightGeek (FUBO and the donkey you rode in on)
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93 posted on 08/24/2011 4:21:00 PM PDT by Dianer0839 (King Aragorn says, Hobbits bow to NO-ONE)
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To: PJ-Comix

The Constitution only mentions two subdivisions of citizen as well.

Of American citizens; one is either born a natural born citizen - or one must be “naturalized” into that state of natural allegiance that otherwise only circumstances of birth could impart.


94 posted on 08/24/2011 4:25:30 PM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: PJ-Comix
I don't recall the exact date on this, but it is from late 1700's Britannica, definition of Native. Note the two parent requirement:


95 posted on 08/24/2011 4:28:32 PM PDT by Las Vegas Ron (Rush Limbaugh = the Beethoven of talk radio)
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To: Dianer0839

From 2010. Not seeing the relevance to showing what was under discussion in 2008.


96 posted on 08/24/2011 4:30:02 PM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: Steel Wolf

And you must have seen the movie ‘Patton’. I believe that Rubio no matter how sterling a person and qualified for POTUSA, he is out of the same boatload of children as my brother and I as to not having validated citizen parents. To make exceptions from either side prostitutes the distinction between ‘ natural born citizen’ and just ‘citizen’ as explicitly distinguished in the Founders Constitution for our Nation and can give us people like Obama. Some of us just have to accept what is reality, like my brother who also served the USA and died for it on Okinawa and I who was in the line for the invasion of Japan. Plain citizenship should be sufficient to do good for this exceptional Nation.


97 posted on 08/24/2011 4:31:02 PM PDT by noinfringers2
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To: allmendream

The US Supreme Court referencing and quoting Vattel..”Vattel...natural born citizens are born to citizen parents”..heck they gave chapter and page number.


98 posted on 08/24/2011 4:32:46 PM PDT by bushpilot1
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To: allmendream

It had a lot of information about birth right citizenship.


99 posted on 08/24/2011 4:33:10 PM PDT by Dianer0839 (King Aragorn says, Hobbits bow to NO-ONE)
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To: allmendream

The implication of the term “natural born” in the constitution is that regardless of where on Earth you might be born, you would automatically be an American citizen.

The only way that could be so is if both of your parents were citizens of the US.

Any other combination would leave your citizenship status in question.


100 posted on 08/24/2011 4:33:24 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Sarah Palin - 2012!)
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