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CEO of Gibson Guitar a Republican donor; Democrat competitor uses same wood
Landmark Report ^ | 08/27/11 | John Nolte

Posted on 08/27/2011 11:58:48 AM PDT by DFG

On Thursday, the iconic Gibson Guitar Corporation issued a press release stating that government officials raided their Tennessee manufacturing facility over warrants concerning the legality of the importation of wood purchased from India that they use in their world famous guitars. The wood–which is certified and regulated by the Forest Stewardship Council–is not illegal, but rather subject to a domestic law in India frowns upon the processing of this wood by non-Indians. (Gibson uses American labor for the processing.)

(Excerpt) Read more at landmarkreport.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; US: Tennessee
KEYWORDS: bho44; gibson; gibsonguitars; guitar; juszkiewicz; liberalfascism; martin
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1 posted on 08/27/2011 11:58:54 AM PDT by DFG
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To: DFG

Maybe they could hire some American Indians.


2 posted on 08/27/2011 12:01:26 PM PDT by Venturer
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To: DFG

I’m a U.S. lumberjack in India and I’m not OK? Call me timberswoggled.


3 posted on 08/27/2011 12:01:45 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (There's gonna be a Redneck Revolution! (See my freep page) [rednecks come in many colors])
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To: Venturer

India has no reason to give a hoot about the consumer of their product, except as an artificial trade barrier.


4 posted on 08/27/2011 12:03:25 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (There's gonna be a Redneck Revolution! (See my freep page) [rednecks come in many colors])
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To: DFG

I wouldnt advertise that Henry J is a Republican. He’s one of the most disliked CEOs in America.


5 posted on 08/27/2011 12:04:22 PM PDT by Terabitten ("Don't retreat. RELOAD!!" -Sarah Palin)
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To: Venturer

I think they should arrest those that decided on this illegal raid...now!


6 posted on 08/27/2011 12:06:26 PM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter")
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To: Nachum
Ping...

...The Gibson facility wasn’t raided over allegations of tax evasion, charges of embezzlement, or even something as drab as child labor. Not even close. It was raided over what the DOJ deems an inability to follow a vague domestic trade law in India (one that apparently the Indian government didn’t seem too concerned about enforcing) regarding a specific type of wood. Not illegal wood, just wood with obscenely specific procedural guidelines.

7 posted on 08/27/2011 12:07:00 PM PDT by Jane Long (2 Chron 7:14)
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To: DFG

Lemme guess: somebody from Takamine was the subject matter expert.

This cannot stand - it appears to be pure harassment.


8 posted on 08/27/2011 12:07:21 PM PDT by jagusafr ("We hold these truths to be self-evident...")
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To: DFG

Figures.
I hope people still remember all of the car lots run by republican donors forced into closing after Obama bought GM.


9 posted on 08/27/2011 12:12:35 PM PDT by RandallFlagg ("I can see 2012 from my house!" Jim Thompson, 7-16-2011)
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To: DFG

bump


10 posted on 08/27/2011 12:13:14 PM PDT by lowbridge (Rep. Dingell: "Its taken a long time.....to control the people.")
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To: DFG

Corrupt Federal prosecutors use the Lacey Act to put innocent Americans in prison for a few headlines.


11 posted on 08/27/2011 12:13:54 PM PDT by stinkerpot65 (Global warming is a Marxist lie.)
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To: Jane Long

It seems the Lacey act, in its strenuous effort to care more about an exporting country’s laws than that country may care itself, invites every curious jot and tittle to be freshly interpreted by US courts. It is a trap at the beck and call of any administration for any reason. This isn’t the only time this has happened. I’d be pretty sure that China is overlooking a lot of bureaucratic minutia in the process of expediting the export of megatons of junk to the US, and nobody seems to be caring about applying Lacey to China.


12 posted on 08/27/2011 12:13:57 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (There's gonna be a Redneck Revolution! (See my freep page) [rednecks come in many colors])
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To: max americana; avacado; the invisib1e hand; little jeremiah; Dr. Ursus; steveo; ...
A ping to all who replied on my earlier thread, "Federal agents search Gibson Guitar factory in Memphis."

It seems that Gibson was guilty of two things:

I'm sure they will consider rectifying the first issue by relocating their manufacturing operations to India.

Click through to this article. The "East Indian Rosewood" is also used by C.F. Martin & Company to make instruments. However, Mr. Martin is a big Democrat contributor. Strangely, his business was not raided/searched this week for using this wood.

13 posted on 08/27/2011 12:14:17 PM PDT by cc2k ( If having an "R" makes you conservative, does walking into a barn make you a horse's (_*_)?)
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To: cc2k

14 posted on 08/27/2011 12:15:39 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: stinkerpot65

If India has the offending law, then Gibson should stop importing from India. Can’t rosewood be grown elsewhere, like in Hawaii or on U.S. possessions in the Caribbean?


15 posted on 08/27/2011 12:16:33 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (There's gonna be a Redneck Revolution! (See my freep page) [rednecks come in many colors])
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To: DFG

To paraphrase BB King (one of Gibson’s most famous fans), “Nobody loves me but Obama. And he could be jivin’ me too.”


16 posted on 08/27/2011 12:18:17 PM PDT by newheart (When does policy become treason?)
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To: cc2k

What counts as finished, anyhow. Maybe Martin only has the pieces cut in India, then sends them elsewhere for expert assembly. Or Martin could be doing the exact same thing Gibson has been doing.


17 posted on 08/27/2011 12:19:02 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (There's gonna be a Redneck Revolution! (See my freep page) [rednecks come in many colors])
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To: Venturer

maybe an Onion joke, but I read that some of the guitars ended up in Mexico


18 posted on 08/27/2011 12:19:31 PM PDT by q_an_a (uues)
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To: Terabitten
Being a Republican is nothing to be ashamed of.

What is the government or anyone else in the media going to do? They are already trying to criminalize his business for political reasons.

Hiding your beliefs isn't the answer.
19 posted on 08/27/2011 12:20:47 PM PDT by Minus_The_Bear
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To: DFG

Here’s another thread on the topic:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2769621/posts

The DOJ is giving an interpretation of law in India that even India does not give. This is simply MORE evidence of a Department of Justice that serves anything BUT justice.

Holder should not simply be fired. He needs to be tried in court.....for several things. Add in all his radical hires and any appointees as well.


20 posted on 08/27/2011 12:26:35 PM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo...Sum Pro Vita. (Modified Decartes))
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To: DFG

All of the issues cited are handled before shipment in India. There is no there there.

This is a political hit, just like the GM dealers.


21 posted on 08/27/2011 12:27:07 PM PDT by texmexis best
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To: DFG

Not a surprise from this commie admin


22 posted on 08/27/2011 12:28:10 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Happiness)
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To: cc2k

I had read that Gibson hadn’t been happy with the quality of the ‘finished’ parts from India, so they ordered them to be thicker than spec so that they could sand them down and fix them in the States. Gibson should have learned the lesson of Microsoft and Bill Gates during the Clinton years about political donations.


23 posted on 08/27/2011 12:28:19 PM PDT by CASchack
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To: DFG

Funny how this was my first thought when I initially heard of the incident.


24 posted on 08/27/2011 12:28:40 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (When you've only heard lies your entire life, the truth sounds insane.)
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To: DFG

I’m was the proud owner of a Gibson SG and Gibson ES 335. I’m now even prouder!


25 posted on 08/27/2011 12:39:08 PM PDT by Huskrrrr
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To: DFG

Chicago thuggery at its best/worst.


26 posted on 08/27/2011 12:40:24 PM PDT by FourPeas ("Maladjusted and wigging out is no way to go through life, son." -hg)
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To: DFG

Martin contributes to Libs? Shall I sell my D-28 and D-35? Not a friggin’ chance...could have been made by Beelzebub. CF Martin didn’t actually make the guitars, hired labor did. Wonder if they’re union. Thanks for the heads up.

We are now a nation of assemblers anyway. The guitars are probably built in Mexico and assembled in Nazarith, PA.


27 posted on 08/27/2011 12:42:17 PM PDT by tweakDU
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To: GeronL

“Not a surprise from this commie admin”

So, I wonder how many people snuck over the border while this was going on...well, in this time of belt-tightening, nipping a critical issue like this in the bud is is a priority, I suppose...

projectile-barf spewing /s


28 posted on 08/27/2011 12:42:58 PM PDT by The Antiyuppie ("When small men cast long shadows, then it is very late in the day.")
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To: cc2k
However, Mr. Martin is a big Democrat contributor. Strangely, his business was not raided/searched this week for using this wood.

That's because simply using the wood isn't illegal. And likely because C. F. Martin had the correct paperwork and followed the rules to use the wood. Martin has a heck of a lot more experience using East Indian Rosewood on its guitars and dealing with the regulations and paperwork; Gibson makes the J-45, J-185 Rosewood and J-165 Rosewood in East Indian Rosewood (Martin makes 51 East Indian Rosewood models), the premier Gibson models (J-200, L-200, Dove, Hummingbird, Southern Jumbo) are made of mahogany or maple.

Martin also produces many more acoustic guitars each day than Gibson does (Gibson has a strong line of electric guitars, mandolins, banjos, and capital "D" Dobros - a trade name, and some acoustic guitars). Gibson makes 60 acoustic models, total; Martin makes twenty different body shapes and over 50 different models within the D14 body shape alone.

Gibson's CEO is known - and was known before he got into the guitar business - for being a pretty aggressive businessman.

Plus, it may be that Gibson's cutting compliance corners due to its financial situation after the flood in Nashville. Gibson lost everything at Opryland Mills. Not only production, but forms and molds. Mandolin and banjo production was shut down. There were talks of Huber talking over Gibson banjos - then talks of sale of the Gibson banjo line to a Chinese buyer.

No, there's a lot I think this administration is capable of, but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

In this case, my guess is that Gibson simply cut corners.

29 posted on 08/27/2011 12:44:23 PM PDT by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred.)
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To: DFG

The next administration’s DOJ is going to be very busy investigating the abuses of power exhibited by THIS administration’s DOJ. Holder and his bunch make, even, Janet Reno look intelligent.


30 posted on 08/27/2011 12:44:58 PM PDT by 13Sisters76 ("It is amazing how many people mistake a certain hip snideness for sophistication. " Thos. Sowell)
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To: RandallFlagg
RandallFlagg wrote:
I hope people still remember all of the car lots run by republican donors forced into closing after Obama bought GM.
I remember that, and I worked in management at a car dealer until our dealership closed in 2008.

Although people tried to make a big deal about that, there is one fact that gets in the way. Automobile dealers did not donate to Obama's campaign. The email about that said that only 1% or 2% of the GM dealerships closed were "Obama supporters." If that's true, then Obama supporters were overrepresented in the closing.

If you check opensecrets.org, you'll find that auto dealers donated far less than 1% of their total political contributions to Obama in the 2008 presidential campaign. And the number of Obama donors was also far less than 1% of the total donors from that industry.

Auto dealers knew what Obama was and that he would end their industry. Almost no auto dealers supported The Won.

31 posted on 08/27/2011 12:51:54 PM PDT by cc2k ( If having an "R" makes you conservative, does walking into a barn make you a horse's (_*_)?)
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To: DFG

Republican leaders in Congress should hold a press conference and call on Obama to call off his dogs. Ride this issue for a week. Call this Obama’s jobs program.


32 posted on 08/27/2011 12:53:11 PM PDT by Avid Coug
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To: Scoutmaster

Interesting that, in Gibson’s hour of dire need, the 0bama administration chose to raid them over a nit-picking and questionable point of bureaucratic regulatory procedure and compliance rather than help them out and save some jobs. Ho hum, another day in the “Oval Office” [ note - known during the Klinton administration as the “Oval Orifice” ]

It is true of all politicians. Ignore what they say, just watch what they do.


33 posted on 08/27/2011 12:55:15 PM PDT by Senator John Blutarski
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To: Scoutmaster
Of course, you can use East Indian Rosewood for fretboards. I'll take ebony first. I'll take maple on a Telecaster or a Stratocaster before the rosewood option. But you can use it on fretboards.

Funny how Fender wasn't raided, when it uses all of that rosewood on fretboards. And how Guild wasn't raided, or the smaller luthiers like Collings, and Goodall, and Olson, and Froggy Bottom, and . . .

But they probably had the paperwork straight and obeyed the rules, no matter how arcane, unlike Gibson.

Seems to make a lot more sense than immediately assuming this was a targeted hit because of Republican donations.

34 posted on 08/27/2011 12:56:42 PM PDT by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
If India has the offending law, then Gibson should stop importing from India. Can’t rosewood be grown elsewhere, like in Hawaii or on U.S. possessions in the Caribbean?

Gibson used to use Brazilian rosewood until importation of that wood was banned. They were also recently in hot water for using rosewood harvested (allegedly illegally) from Madagascar. I don't know how how that story played out but Gibson sure seems to have a target on their back from this current administration.

Lately they've been utilizing something called "Torrified maple" for their fretboards. It's dark brown like rosewood but hard like regular maple. Of course, many Gibson customers are "purists" who believe a Les Paul is a perfect combination of mahogany, maple, rosewood, neck angles, nitrocellulose finishes and even the glue that is used (when Gibson switched from hide glue to Franklin Titebond, hell broke loose!) and any deviation from this formula will produce a different instrument, lacking its signature tone.

In short, putting a Torrified maple fretboard on a Les Paul will undoubtedly result in mountains of angry letters from Gibson players!

35 posted on 08/27/2011 12:57:40 PM PDT by Gena Bukin (Perry/Rubio 2012)
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To: STARWISE; onyx; maggief; Liz; Nachum; SE Mom; Miss Didi

Chicago Way ping!

This should be investigated by Congress!


36 posted on 08/27/2011 1:03:53 PM PDT by penelopesire (Let The Congressional Hearings Begin!)
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To: DFG

American gestapo in action.


37 posted on 08/27/2011 1:08:13 PM PDT by Logical me
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To: Scoutmaster
Scoutmaster wrote:
That's because simply using the wood isn't illegal. And likely because C. F. Martin had the correct paperwork and followed the rules to use the wood.
I think that Gibson had the proper paperwork as well. Their website has more information on this. They have a Press Release about it, and a public response page that includes a 35-ish minute video.

There, it says that they had propper documentation, and that even authorities in India were OK with what was being done. The problem seems to be that US authorities have a different interpretation of Indian trade law.

If I'm reading other comments and other sources correctly, Gibson wasn't happy with the finish when they ordered the parts from India, so they ordered them slightly thicker than needed, but still finished by Indian workers. Then, when the parts arrived in Memphis, Gibson workers refinished the pieces to a higher quality specification. I might be missing something there.

The government is also holding a significant amount of ebony fingerboards from the 2009 raid of the Gibson facility in Nashville, and has not filed any charges or prosecuted anyone. But they refuse to release the wood back to Gibson.

There's something wrong with this whole arrangement. We shouldn't have to have documentation filed with the Kings agents to make a guitar, and the King shouldn't be able to seize our assets if our paperwork isn't absolutely perfect. I don't see anywhere in the Constitution where it says Congress can tell a manufacturer what materials it can use to make it's products, or what special paperwork must be on file to make guitars out of (*Gasp*) wood.

38 posted on 08/27/2011 1:09:08 PM PDT by cc2k ( If having an "R" makes you conservative, does walking into a barn make you a horse's (_*_)?)
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To: Scoutmaster
Scoutmaster wrote:
Funny how Fender wasn't raided, when it uses all of that rosewood on fretboards. And how Guild wasn't raided, or the smaller luthiers like Collings, and Goodall, and Olson, and Froggy Bottom, and . . .
Just curious. How many of those other companies are located in "right to work" states? How many of those operations are union shops?
39 posted on 08/27/2011 1:13:01 PM PDT by cc2k ( If having an "R" makes you conservative, does walking into a barn make you a horse's (_*_)?)
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To: Gena Bukin
Gibson used to use Brazilian rosewood until importation of that wood was banned.

Importation of Brazilian Rosewood was banned in 1992 until CITES (some exceptions to be discussed). It was and is considered the king of tonewoods for acoustic guitars, both because of its tonal qualities and the wonderful chocolate brown color with great swirling grain. All of those $200,000 -$500,000+ pre-war Martin D-28s that are considered the Stradivarius of acoustic guitars are Brazilian Rosewood with Adirondack Spruce tops (with forward-shifted bracing).

Again, although Gibson used some Brazilian Rosewood, Gibson's always been more into maple and mahogany acoustic guitars.

It's still possible to get Brazilian (lower-quality Brazilian) at a high price, but the luthier has to have a lot of paperwork showing that the wood came from a tree cut down before 1992. That era of getting Brazilian from old stumps is an era that's pretty well passed, however.

Madagascar Rosewood was illegal to import (under Madagascar rules, I believe) for years, but a coup made it possible to get some into the country over the last decade or so. It's the closest thing, tonally and in looks, to Brazilian that we've seen.

East Indian is nice, but nothing like Madagascar or Brazilian Rosewood.

All of that is said with respect to using the wood as a tonewood, and not just as a fretboard or the veneer on a headstock.

And using Franklin Titebond instead of hide glue makes a difference, I believe. Think of pulling away old white glue. It still has a rubbery feel to it. Hide glue is brittle. When you want to transfer vibration from one wood component to another, rubbery white glue, no matter how well cured and now matter how thin the coat, dampens the vibration. That's what I hear from luthiers and based on guitars I have that are made with hide glue, I believe I can hear the difference.

40 posted on 08/27/2011 1:13:29 PM PDT by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred.)
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To: DFG
Not to get technical but C.F. Martin Guitars are not a competitor of Gibson guitars.

C.F. Martin makes acoustic guitars exclusively. Gibson does not, they mainly make Electric Guitars. From the famous Les Paul model to the popular 'SG' model, the 'Flying Vee', and the semi-hollow body ES-335 'Dot', and like BB King's ES-345 'Lucille'.

The competitor for Gibson is Fender Guitars and their Stratocaster and Telecaster models. Many famous players like Eric Clapton start out with the Gibson Les Paul then switch to the Fender 'Strat' for the different sound a Strat makes. (Clapton's Fender Strat 'Blackie' sold at an auction at Christie's in London for a whopping $959,000!)

Now Gibson sure may have a beef against the 'G' for overlooking C.F. Martin's wood, but it ain't over whose buying whose guitars as a competitor.

41 posted on 08/27/2011 1:23:17 PM PDT by Condor51 (The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits [A.Einstein])
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To: Huskrrrr

“I’m was the proud owner of a Gibson SG and Gibson ES 335. I’m now even prouder!”

Slash personally signed my Gibson LP, and even signed my Appetite for Destruction cassette tape. He was sober this time LOL


42 posted on 08/27/2011 1:29:02 PM PDT by max americana (FUBO NATION 2012 FK BARAK)
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To: cc2k

ping


43 posted on 08/27/2011 1:29:21 PM PDT by GOPJ (126 people were indicted for being terrorists in the last two years. Every one of them was Muslim.)
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To: DFG

You have to wonder how many people who own and enjoy Gibson guitars voted for this corrupt Ubama regime.


44 posted on 08/27/2011 1:31:11 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Terabitten
I wouldnt advertise that Henry J is a Republican. He’s one of the most disliked CEOs in America

Why would you say that? Most people haven't even heard of him.

45 posted on 08/27/2011 1:35:15 PM PDT by plain talk
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To: max americana

Cool!


46 posted on 08/27/2011 1:37:03 PM PDT by Huskrrrr
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To: cc2k
Just curious. How many of those other companies are located in "right to work" states? How many of those operations are union shops?

Jim Olson makes all of his own guitars in Minnesota and I don't think he unionized himself. Bill Collings is in Austin, Texas with 50 employees; given his size, I doubt he's unionized (but the two Madi/Adi guitars I have from him are the closest things to pre-war Martins I've been able to find). Michael Millard's been building Froggy Bottoms in Vermont for about 40 years. Guild moved from Washington to Connecticut in 2008.

I think it's grasping to try and find some conspiracy. I could list another twenty luthiers who weren't raided pretty easily - a lot in the Tennessee/Virginia area. Don't believe Gallagher was raided - Doc Watson's guitar of choice for many, many years.

Gibson's had an abundance of legal problems. It was charged with price-rigging by the FTC in 2009. Don't know the status of that one. Last year, Gibson had a tax lien of $450,000+. It breached the terms of a loan in 2008 by failing to submit audited financials.

And if we have any independent music dealers on here, let them tell you about the changes in how Gibson started to do business with independents about seven or eight years ago, and forced so many of its small dealers to drop the brand, leaving it to Guitar Center and other big box operators.

47 posted on 08/27/2011 1:37:20 PM PDT by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred.)
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To: plain talk
Why would you say that? Most people haven't even heard of him.

I'd never heard of him until he took over Gibson. I simply remember the articles on him that then appeared in magazines like Fortune and in newspapers like the Wall Street Journal. If any of the articles found someone with something favorable to say about him, I don't remember it.

I give him credit for rescuing Gibson's quality . . . and for running a bunch of small music stores out of business by his unreasonable demands about how much they were required to spend with Gibson to remain a Gibson dealer. Once he had Sam Ash, Musician's Friend, and Guitar Center, he didn't care about anyone else.

48 posted on 08/27/2011 1:41:35 PM PDT by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred.)
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To: DFG

It’s a matter of time before one of these contrived and bogus federal raids is met with armed resistance.


49 posted on 08/27/2011 1:44:12 PM PDT by x1stcav (Obama: The Mistake of '08.)
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To: cc2k
The "East Indian Rosewood" is also used by C.F. Martin & Company to make instruments. However, Mr. Martin is a big Democrat contributor. Strangely, his business was not raided/searched this week for using this wood.

The message from the administration is clear - 'donate to us or face the consequences'.

50 posted on 08/27/2011 1:56:31 PM PDT by meyer (We will not sit down and shut up.)
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