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Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme? Rick Perry thinks so.
The Daily Caller ^ | 08/29/2011 | CJ Ciaramella

Posted on 08/29/2011 12:58:04 PM PDT by martosko

There goes Rick Perry again, saying things that make liberals’ heads explode.

Speaking to a crowd in Iowa this weekend, the Texas governor and GOP presidential hopeful doubled down on statements he made in his book, Fed Up!, that Social Security is essentially a pyramid scheme.

“It is a Ponzi scheme for these young people,” Perry said. “The idea that they’re working and paying into Social Security today, that the current program is going to be there for them, is a lie. It is a monstrous lie on this generation, and we can’t do that to them.”

The left reacted, predictably, with shock and outrage. Liberal blog Firedoglake called Perry’s rhetoric “wingnutty talk” and “crazy sh*t.”


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: berniemadoff; perry; ponzischeme; rickperry; rinofreeamerica; socialsecurity
What the heck is so crazy about calling a spade a spade?
1 posted on 08/29/2011 12:58:06 PM PDT by martosko
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To: martosko

My congressman was calling it a ponzi scheme a year ago. The liberals went ballistic and even had ads about it.

True is true.


2 posted on 08/29/2011 1:00:04 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin)
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To: martosko

You’re on a third duplicate. See this one: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2770487/posts?page=61#61


3 posted on 08/29/2011 1:00:33 PM PDT by DRey (Perry/Rubio 2012)
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To: martosko

The truth hurts.
The stuck pig squeals the loudest................


4 posted on 08/29/2011 1:00:48 PM PDT by Red Badger ("Treason doth never prosper.... What's the reason? Why if it prosper, none dare call it treason.")
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To: martosko

Beats me. It is probably the biggest ponzi scheme in the history of the world.


5 posted on 08/29/2011 1:01:38 PM PDT by freespirited (Stupid people are ruining America. --Herman Cain)
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To: martosko

When you have no solutions to offer, you name call. How many times have we heard this crap to change the subject.


6 posted on 08/29/2011 1:01:44 PM PDT by org.whodat (What does the Republican party stand for////??? absolutely nothing.)
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To: martosko
Some people support SS and think it will work out for them.
Some people do not support SS and expect to get ripped off by it.
It's OK to disagree on that; largely depends on your age, I think.

But ... Ponzi Scheme? That's definite. Why is there even a debate? The math is the math and SS is a ponzi scheme.

7 posted on 08/29/2011 1:01:45 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy (The USSR spent itself into bankruptcy and collapsed -- and aren't we on the same path now?)
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To: martosko
He'll be pilloried by leftards for insulting his High Holiness's crowning achievement
8 posted on 08/29/2011 1:02:57 PM PDT by WOBBLY BOB (My mind is like a steel trap: rusty and illegal in 37 states.)
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To: martosko

It’s not a spade ... it’s a TRUST FUND that WAS solvent until Congress in their enfant-ant wisdom [that’s baby-small-minded] started sucking money out of the Trust Fund for its own little schemes.

CUT MedicAID and Food Stamps ... there’s never been a Trust Fund for them ... and all other UNFUNDED ‘entitlement’ type payments.

AND make all government officials part of the SSA system ... Congress especially ... that’ll FIX the problem that shouldn’t exist.


9 posted on 08/29/2011 1:03:32 PM PDT by HighlyOpinionated (I am a Catholic, A US Citizen, A Patriot, A TEA Partier, An Oath Keeper, A Voter, An Auburn Fan!)
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To: martosko
Social Security has been a slush fund for crooks ever since JFK broke into the piggy bank in the 60’s.
10 posted on 08/29/2011 1:04:25 PM PDT by mountainlion (I am voting for Sarah after getting screwed again by the DC Thugs.)
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To: martosko

I think that Perry was saying that the way the government today uses money collected for SS is a scam. The money is collected for SS but used for something else and then tell the people the program is broke. Still trust these politicians?


11 posted on 08/29/2011 1:04:31 PM PDT by RC2
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To: martosko
Several similar articles have been posted on this today...but you'd have no way of knowing that...since the titles are different...with different sourcing...

I agree with Perry.

12 posted on 08/29/2011 1:06:24 PM PDT by shield (Rev 2:9 Woe unto those who say they are Judahites and are not, but are of the syna GOG ue of Satan.)
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To: martosko

Did Perry mention the hundreds of billions of dollars sucked up by anchor babies, illegals, new immigrants, and their respective families? Or the money being spent to fix up Mexican trucks, to sponsor green technology overseas, to pay college tuition for students from red China, to set up the Moslem Brotherhood in Libya, etc.?


13 posted on 08/29/2011 1:09:09 PM PDT by algernonpj (He who pays the piper . . .)
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To: martosko

Social Security uses money from new ‘investors’ (current workers’ FICA tax withholdings) to pay ‘returns’ (’benefits’) to existing/previous ‘investors’ (retirees whose FICA tax withholdings were used to pay ‘benefits’ to the previous generation of etirees).

If there is a better or more succinct, description of our Social Security system than ‘ponzi scheme’ I’d like to hear it.


14 posted on 08/29/2011 1:10:09 PM PDT by WayneS (Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm. -- James Madison)
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To: HighlyOpinionated
IF we'd cut off all Government goodies to the illegals...we'd not be having a problem. No draw down...just cut them off immediately.
15 posted on 08/29/2011 1:10:39 PM PDT by shield (Rev 2:9 Woe unto those who say they are Judahites and are not, but are of the syna GOG ue of Satan.)
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To: Red Badger
The truth hurts. The stuck pig squeals the loudest................

Yep - And I wish he'd elaborate about the famous "Lock Box", lol!

Their D.C. 'how can we fool 'em today' jig is up!

Perry's team has obviously polled on the legitimate gripes us little people have and it's resonating like a sonic boom and exploding pointy liberal heads all over the country! I love it...

16 posted on 08/29/2011 1:10:40 PM PDT by demkicker (My passion for freedom is stronger than that of Democrats whose obsession is to enslave me.)
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To: martosko
I know that Perry has his drawbacks, but he has a tendency to say what the rest of us are thinking.

He lets the chips fall where they may and I like that. We need someone who the "do what we say or else" media thinks is a little crazy.

Perry might be able to rock them back on their heels, especially when they realize that his iconoclastic attitude trumps their politically correct attacks.

Palin is my candidate if she gets in because she clearly strikes terror into the heart of the political machinery of both the Dems and the GOP, but I could live with Perry.

17 posted on 08/29/2011 1:14:18 PM PDT by Dr. Thorne (Buy Gold and Guns Now!)
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To: martosko

The classic Ponzi is marked by kicking the can of debt down the road to would-be investors who can’t sustain it. This is what SS has developed into, given modern US demographics. To be fair to the conception of the program, it was not intended to become a Ponzi. Even the lefties of that age were saner than that.


18 posted on 08/29/2011 1:16:40 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (There's gonna be a Redneck Revolution! (See my freep page) [rednecks come in many colors])
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To: HighlyOpinionated
It’s not a spade ... it’s a TRUST FUND that WAS solvent until Congress in their enfant-ant wisdom [that’s baby-small-minded] started sucking money out of the Trust Fund for its own little schemes.

From the beginning until the 1986 tax reform Social Security was largely a "pay as you go" system where taxes closely matched payouts. The SS trust fund was a rounding error wandering between $20 and $40 billion in total value. After 1986 taxes were increased to "save money for future payouts" and the trust fund's accumulated value climbed to over $2.5 trillion. By law these could only be invested in government bonds, i.e. skimmed off by the rest of government. If these were used to pay off general bonds held by the public then it would be OK. Instead the cash was just spent.

Lots of tables on the trust fund and annual SS spending and receipts in Social Security: The Trust Fund

19 posted on 08/29/2011 1:18:13 PM PDT by KarlInOhio (Due to the earthquake the president has officially implemented Rule 18-1.)
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To: martosko

If it wasn’t a government program, everyone connected with it would be sharing a cell with Bernie Madoff. Perry is kind to suggest that it’s just another Ponzi scheme-it’s much worse than that because it steals from taxpayers, where Ponzi schemes just dupe people.


20 posted on 08/29/2011 1:19:59 PM PDT by Spok
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To: martosko

Bernie Madoff is in prison for doing what Social Security does everyday...taking money from new subscribers to pay current clients and hoping that there are enough new people to keep the con going. Madoff lined his own pockets with a rake off while what Social Security payments are not spent in benefits go into government coffers to be spent foolishly. I fail to see much difference except Madoff is in prison while the Social Security people still have jobs.


21 posted on 08/29/2011 1:20:47 PM PDT by The Great RJ ("The problem with socialism is that pretty soon you run out of other people's money" M. Thatcher)
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To: martosko
It has really mostly become a way to hide people who are permanently on welfare. This is supposedly a picture of the Social Security Office In Austin, TX. Do you see any gray hair in the picture? It is not just the government who is sucking up all of the money that was originally intended for old folks. It is now the refuge for people who have somehow managed to get themselves declared permanently disabled and unable to do any type of work to support themselves. It is a farce at this point.

Any Grey Hair

22 posted on 08/29/2011 1:21:02 PM PDT by fireman15 (Check your facts before making ignorant statements.)
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To: KarlInOhio
"By law these could only be invested in government bonds, i.e. skimmed off by the rest of government."

Only special Government Bonds are allowed to be spent on other govervment programs.

23 posted on 08/29/2011 1:39:37 PM PDT by Carbonsteel
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To: Carbonsteel
After 11 years of reforms by Perry, Texas still ranks at the bottom of many educational indicators. Texas has the fewest percentage of adults with high school diplomas, compared to the other U.S. states.

Texas is also ranked low in high school graduation rate.

Texas is 49th in verbal SAT scores in the nation and 46th in average math SAT scores. Can we trust him to reform Washington?

24 posted on 08/29/2011 1:59:05 PM PDT by RED SOUTH (Follow me on twitter @redsouth72)
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To: algernonpj

Relevance to Social Security being a Ponzi Scheme?


25 posted on 08/29/2011 1:59:09 PM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: fireman15
. It is now the refuge for people who have somehow managed to get themselves declared permanently disabled and unable to do any type of work to support themselves.

That's a separate program with separate funding, SSI.

26 posted on 08/29/2011 2:03:18 PM PDT by Will88
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To: ctdonath2
Relevance to Social Security being a Ponzi Scheme?

Lol, the Perry cheerleading squads sure do try to control what can and can't be said on their pep rally threads.

27 posted on 08/29/2011 2:05:21 PM PDT by Will88
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To: Carbonsteel
"By law these could only be invested in government bonds, i.e. skimmed off by the rest of government."

Let me clarify (posting on my phone makes me likely to leave out details).

Social Security income is supposed to have been invested in marketable Treasury Bonds, but instead the idiots in Washington invests most of it in non-marketable IOU's (Special Government Securities) so they can spend it on other programs. There is no "lock box", just a bunch of worthless IOU's.

I'm not sure this would qualify as a ponzi scheme, but it definitely qualifies as theft in my book.

28 posted on 08/29/2011 2:09:38 PM PDT by Carbonsteel
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To: Will88

How is that question “cheerleading”?


29 posted on 08/29/2011 2:27:10 PM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: martosko
Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

Yes.

30 posted on 08/29/2011 2:27:48 PM PDT by DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis (Want to make $$$? It's easy! Use FR as a platform to pimp your blog for hits!!!)
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To: martosko

It meets almost every classic definition of a Ponzi scheme. If you take money from current investors to pay off earlier investors and there are no real investments ever made, it is a Ponzi scheme. That is what the federal government is doing. The only difference between the federal government and a Ponzi scheme perp is the federal government can actually point a gun at the new investors and make them pay up anyway. The Ponzi perp has to rely on inducing new investors with the returns he is paying old investors. But they both are lying about where the money is.


31 posted on 08/29/2011 2:32:35 PM PDT by Truth is a Weapon (Truth, it hurts so good.)
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To: ctdonath2

Most of the Perry threads are cheerleading and there is always one or more participants trying to prevent discussion of any Perry negatives, often trying to enforce some restrictive standard of what Perry issues can and can’t be discussed.


32 posted on 08/29/2011 2:53:49 PM PDT by Will88
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To: martosko

It is a Ponzi scheme. What else would you call a scheme where yesterday’s receipts have been spent and tomorrow’s payments are made with the money collected today?


33 posted on 08/29/2011 3:24:40 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Islam is the religion of Satan and Mohammed was his minion.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

when started 33 persons contributed for ever one recipient, now 3 contribute per recipient- just do the math- it aint gonna work


34 posted on 08/29/2011 4:07:40 PM PDT by mriguy67
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To: mriguy67

And the life expectancy was less than 70 years. The politicians just couldn’t stand to see a pile of money put in their care and just had to piss it away.


35 posted on 08/29/2011 4:26:50 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Islam is the religion of Satan and Mohammed was his minion.)
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To: Will88

There is a difference between preventing discussion vs asking WTF you’re talking about and why it has any relevance to the thread’s topic or any normal tangents thereto when it doesn’t. The topic here is SS; enumerating unrelated issues in a degrading tone is trolling, not discussing.

I mean really, why DID Burger King dump their mascot?


36 posted on 08/29/2011 6:07:14 PM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: ctdonath2
Your personal opinion and nothing more. You objected to the points raised in post #13 with this:

Relevance to Social Security being a Ponzi Scheme?

as if it were somehow improper, or not allowed, for a poster to make comments about Perry on any subject other than SS. I've seen others try the same form of censorship on other Perry threads. I've never seen any group try to censor and control what can and cannot be said on threads the way Perry supporters do. Of course, it's all really an attempt to prevent people from posting legitimate and factual points about Perry that many consider to be significant negatives.

And I'm not the only one noticing this. Don't care what you think. There are many negatives concerning Perry and people should be free to discuss them on any Perry thread.

Too many Perry supporters want the Perry threads to be pep rallies with no negative facts allowed. If the site owners want this to be a Perry pep rally site, they should tell us. If not, people who start these numerous threads shouldn't start them if all they want is agreement and cheerleading for Perry.

And, as I've said on other threads, I'm not totally against Perry, but I do think his record on important issues should be discussed. I might eventually support Perry, but I'll have no illusions about what his stances on issues are. If he should become president, we need a conservative Congress to keep him in check on some issues.

37 posted on 08/29/2011 6:40:57 PM PDT by Will88
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To: ClearCase_guy
But ... Ponzi Scheme? That's definite. Why is there even a debate?

Suppose you are planning on retiring as a Military Veteran. There is no money saved up for you either.

So there is no debate, Military Veterans signed up to a retirement program without any money saved for the future. Screwed like the Social Security beneficiaries.

38 posted on 08/29/2011 6:51:51 PM PDT by Doe Eyes
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To: Will88

“I do think his record on important issues should be discussed.”

Fine. So start a thread about his record on important issues which should be discussed.

You just dumped an unrelated query into a focused discussion using an accusatory tone and then started whining when asked WTH it had to do with the subject at hand, and you responded with “help! help! I’m being repressed!” BS.


39 posted on 08/30/2011 3:23:24 AM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: Will88; ctdonath2
Re: "Relevance to Social Security being a Ponzi Scheme?"

The fact so many politicians ignore 'the elephants in the room' when it comes to dealing with our government's spending problem.
40 posted on 08/30/2011 5:27:38 AM PDT by algernonpj (He who pays the piper . . .)
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To: algernonpj

Uh, the point of this thread is that Perry IS addressing “an elephant in the room” by pointing out that Social Security is a ponzi scheme (a major manifestation of runaway spending).


41 posted on 08/30/2011 5:47:20 AM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: ctdonath2

SS is worse than a ponzi scheme, it has the force of law requiring payment in to it.

Peter Schiff got the trustee of SS to admit as much on his radio show.


42 posted on 08/30/2011 5:49:48 AM PDT by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: The flash mob who wonÂ’t leave.)
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To: ctdonath2
Fine. So start a thread about his record on important issues which should be discussed.

Those of you trying to control and censor what can and can't be said on these numerous Perry threads are going to drive yourselves batty trying, I guess.

Have never seen a group behave around here the way the Perry cheerleading squad behaves. And others are making the same observation.

43 posted on 08/30/2011 6:06:01 AM PDT by Will88
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To: ctdonath2

LOL. Since you seem fond of circular reasoning and censorship, I refer you to:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2770508/posts?page=13#13
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2770508/posts?page=27#27
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2770508/posts?page=32#32
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2770508/posts?page=37#37


44 posted on 08/30/2011 6:09:05 AM PDT by algernonpj (He who pays the piper . . .)
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To: ctdonath2

Perhaps then you will get what I implied and will8 specified.


45 posted on 08/30/2011 7:05:00 AM PDT by algernonpj (He who pays the piper . . .)
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To: algernonpj

I asked about the relevance of a non-sequitur and get attacked for “censorship”. Whatever. Begone, trolls.


46 posted on 08/30/2011 7:47:26 AM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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