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Rove: Perry Holds 'Toxic' Views on Social Security
National Journal ^ | September 7, 2011 | Olga Belogolova

Posted on 09/07/2011 8:00:28 AM PDT by AAABEST

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To: cripplecreek
Since around 1985,Federal employess--including Congress critters--are under the Federal Retirement System (FERS), which is simply Social Security, as opposed to the old Civil Service Retirement System (CSRS). HOWEVER--they ALL can participate in the Thrift Savings Plan (TSP)--which is basically an IRA--individual retirement account--that allows investment at various levels of risk into the stockmarket and other ventures.

This needs to be pointed out by anyone proposing an alternative to SS: if Federal employess can invest in a TSP account, which is really an IRA, why can't private sector employees do the same.

Would love to see someone ask Barney Frank to disclose how much he's earned from his TSP account. In fact, why not disclose the TSP earnings for EVERY Congress critter, and then ask them why they are opposed to allowing non-federal employees to have the same opportunity to invest in, as you call them, private individual chose retirement funds.

51 posted on 09/07/2011 9:04:28 AM PDT by milagro
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To: PapaBear3625; xzins
Plus people move from state to state. State-level creates too many complications.

And what provision of the Constitution gives the Federal Government the right to control your retirement???????????????????????

If a state has a retirement system then that might encourage people not to leave a State. It would set up competition between the states for workers.

If I leave a job, then that company is no longer responsible for maintaining my retirement account. If the state sets up a retirement system, then when you leave the state, you are no longer their problem.

52 posted on 09/07/2011 9:08:13 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: arderkrag
There is a reason Rove said this. There is a reason that few candidates seeking election or reelection will touch SS.

The polling numbers are such that it is a loosing issue.

53 posted on 09/07/2011 9:10:37 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: AAABEST
This isn't the good ol days 20 years ago when any pol who mentioned touching SS was finished.

How did it work for Sharon Angle against Harry Reid? People can talk sensibly about SS reform, but many people of all political leanings are put off by overblown rhetoric and demagoguery on most any issue, and especially one they've paid into for decades.

54 posted on 09/07/2011 9:12:00 AM PDT by Will88
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To: AAABEST

Sounds like he basically has to provide a realistic alternative and “fix” for it. Nothing new here, he’s just a bit more willing to “go there” - which has to be done.

It’s the “sell job” that matters. SS needs changed, everyone knows that.

Perry leaves himself open to charges of starving old ladies unless he articulates a plan to fix it properly.


55 posted on 09/07/2011 9:12:13 AM PDT by RockinRight (Carter Obama and Reagan the nation!)
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To: redgolum

Rove was senior advisor to a man who barely won election BOTH times (271 to 166 and 285 to 251, respectively), and now he’s trying to be the media darling. If I were Perry, Rove’s would be the LAST advice I’d want.


56 posted on 09/07/2011 9:14:34 AM PDT by arderkrag (Georgia is God's Country. LOOKING FOR ROLEPLAYERS. Check Profile.)
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To: redgolum

Rove was senior advisor to a man who barely won election BOTH times (271 to 266 and 285 to 251, respectively), and now he’s trying to be the media darling. If I were Perry, Rove’s would be the LAST advice I’d want.


57 posted on 09/07/2011 9:14:51 AM PDT by arderkrag (Georgia is God's Country. LOOKING FOR ROLEPLAYERS. Check Profile.)
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To: redgolum

Well he is doing well in the primary polls and even vs. Obama.

What he has to do is come up with a plan, like Bush’s, but sell it better than Dubya did.


58 posted on 09/07/2011 9:15:31 AM PDT by RockinRight (Carter Obama and Reagan the nation!)
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To: arderkrag; Admin Moderator

Remove the first post, plz. Typo plus double post.


59 posted on 09/07/2011 9:16:05 AM PDT by arderkrag (Georgia is God's Country. LOOKING FOR ROLEPLAYERS. Check Profile.)
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To: JohnG45
Sean Hannity is a useful idiot

The question is: useful to whom? Not to me. That stupid 'debate' he had yesterday after 5pm made me switch to the classical station just as fast as I could.

60 posted on 09/07/2011 9:18:19 AM PDT by BelegStrongbow (St. Joseph, patron of fathers, pray for us!)
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To: AAABEST
Turd Blossom is at it again, because he knows that if Perry wins, his visits to the Whitehouse will look something like this...

Regardless of who wins I think that the only way Rove will see the inside of the White House again is if he takes the tour.

61 posted on 09/07/2011 9:18:25 AM PDT by SoJoCo
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To: redgolum
He is right.

Look at those who scream on FR when SS comes up

Such as you are doing here? Sorry but Preemptive Surrender is not a viable political strategy.

62 posted on 09/07/2011 9:18:39 AM PDT by MNJohnnie (Giving more money to DC to fix the Debt is like giving free drugs to addicts think it will cure them)
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To: GeronL
It should not be replaced by a state-level program it should be replaced by individual retirement accounts.

Most people already have IRAs or 401Ks.

63 posted on 09/07/2011 9:19:44 AM PDT by SoJoCo
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To: Magic Fingers

It’s not the message, it’s the salesman.

Democrats have historically been better salesmen than Republicans.

Reagan was the exception. Let’s hope Perry is as well.


64 posted on 09/07/2011 9:20:40 AM PDT by RockinRight (Carter Obama and Reagan the nation!)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife; RoosterRedux; jonrick46; deepbluesea; RockinRight; TexMom7; potlatch; ...
Perry Ping....

IF you'd rather NOT be pinged FReepmail me.

IF you'd like to be added FReepmail me. Thanks.

65 posted on 09/07/2011 9:20:58 AM PDT by shield (Rev 2:9 Woe unto those who say they are Judahites and are not, but are of the syna GOG ue of Satan.)
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To: redgolum
No one really wants to address the problem, or the fact that they have to start being responsible for themselves.

Perry has pointed out the problem, so have others. But when has he proposed a solution?

66 posted on 09/07/2011 9:21:23 AM PDT by SoJoCo
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To: ridesthemiles
For every working person under the age of 35 or perhaps 40===give them back the amount of Soc Sec paid in my them & their various employers. The records of such deductions are available.

And get the money from where?

Then REQUIRE that such funds be put into a PRIVATE IRA or such for each person.

If Obamacare is unconstitutional on the grounds that the government cannot force a private individual to buy services from a private company then how can forcing a private individual to invest in a private company be legal?

Those same people over the cutoff can open an IRA, etc, and they can deposit even more amounts to it, if they wish.

Most people I know already do.

67 posted on 09/07/2011 9:25:26 AM PDT by SoJoCo
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To: AAABEST

Rove’s trying to help Romney’s tanking poll numbers.


68 posted on 09/07/2011 9:26:24 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: PapaBear3625
Plus people move from state to state. State-level creates too many complications.

And in the two cases that Perry loves to point to, it was done at the county level and only for county employees. Expanding to statewide programs would be a nightmare.

69 posted on 09/07/2011 9:27:07 AM PDT by SoJoCo
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To: RockinRight

“Democrats have historically been better salesmen than Republicans.”

Yep, I guess it’s easier to sell racism and hysterics to the masses than it is to sell rationality.


70 posted on 09/07/2011 9:29:04 AM PDT by Magic Fingers
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To: AAABEST

Quit eating doughnuts you chipmunk-faced RINO! Besides dissing Palin, Perry, and the tea party, what else have you done?


71 posted on 09/07/2011 9:39:29 AM PDT by 2nd Amendment
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To: MNJohnnie

LOL! Haven’t seen you in a while.

My point is that Perry just handed the other side a large batch of ammo. That is stupid.

We shall see what happens, but call SS a Ponzi scheme is a great way to have Grandma mad at you.


72 posted on 09/07/2011 9:44:33 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Magic Fingers

It shouldn’t be, but it’s easier to work with scare tactics than logic.


73 posted on 09/07/2011 9:54:46 AM PDT by RockinRight (Carter Obama and Reagan the nation!)
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To: Will88
What the hell is happening here? Are there actually Freepers who support the Social Security system?

I thought we were against government ponzi schemes. We're finally at a juncture in history where Social Security is no longer the third rail, and here you are trying to derail that sentiment by using Sharon Angle as an example.

Hint: Sharon Angle didn't lose because of her stance on Social Security, she lost because she was a terrible candidate who ran a terrible campaign.

74 posted on 09/07/2011 9:55:00 AM PDT by GunRunner (***Not associated with any criminal actions by the ATF***)
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To: GunRunner

“Are there actually Freepers who support the Social Security system?”

One of the truly immoral dimensions to SS is that it was sold to the gullible as being a legitimate retirement system. Unfortunately many believed in the full faith and trust of the US government.


75 posted on 09/07/2011 9:57:46 AM PDT by mo
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To: MNlurker

Source? I don’t believe that he’s “walked back” from any of the statements in the book.


76 posted on 09/07/2011 9:58:41 AM PDT by hocndoc (http://WingRight.orgI've got a mustard seed and I'm not afraid to use it.Patrol the border 2 control)
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To: GunRunner

Well, why don’t you lay out exactly what you think should be done with the SS system. Apparently you oppose reform of the system.

And Sharon Angle was a poor candidate because she made careless statements about SS and other issues. From the first, she was the candidate the Dims wanted.


77 posted on 09/07/2011 10:18:56 AM PDT by Will88
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To: GeronL
It should not be replaced by a state-level program it should be replaced by individual retirement accounts.

Easy to say for the young who doesn't have a very big investment in the current system. A state run system sounds a bit too risky for those of who have already paid into SS all their lives and are now expecting their measly SS retirement once we've retired.

If the current system remains fully funded until everyone who has paid into it fully finally dies off then I don't have a problem with another risky state run ponzi scheme to replace the current federal ponzi scheme we currently have.

78 posted on 09/07/2011 11:01:17 AM PDT by Ron H. (Loving my Deering Goodtime 2 Classic 5-stringer)
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To: AAABEST

The guard on the left looks like Wilford Brimley.

I guess we can now answer the question, “where’s Blair?”


79 posted on 09/07/2011 11:26:00 AM PDT by Soothesayer9
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To: GeronL

You are absolutely correct.


80 posted on 09/07/2011 12:23:28 PM PDT by Maryhere ("HE comes to rule the earth")
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To: hocndoc

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20095591-503544.html

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2011/08/18/perry-is-less-fed-up-over-social-security/

Mind you I agree with Perry’s original beliefs on Social Security, but I don’t need people who want to leaders slinking away from something they beleived in strongly enough that he put it in a book.


81 posted on 09/07/2011 12:46:10 PM PDT by MNlurker
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To: AAABEST

Rove has never moved on in politics and does not understand the young people of our society these days. Our newest voting generation is much more conservative than ever before, and they are tending to be more and more Republican formally and conservative as a whole than the earlier generations of our country.

AND THESE YOUNG ADULTS KNOW, THEY K-N-O-W, SOCIAL SECURITY WON’T BE THERE FOR THEM YET THEY ARE HAVING TO PAY FOR IT.

What votes Rick Perry may lose from some of the progressive older folk, he will gain from conservative younger folk.

I think Rick Perry needs to stay on track with this one and not budge one bit. If he is able to communicate well on this, the problem and the path, he’ll gain more than he would ever have lost.


82 posted on 09/07/2011 1:31:43 PM PDT by casinva ((Perry/Rubio 2012) or (Perry/Santorum 2012) or (Perry/Cain 2012))
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To: MNlurker

It’s the reporter’s opinion that the Governor “walked back,” however, I’ve read what he wrote and he didn’t set out some super plan to walk back from and never said that SS is unconstitutional. (A “ponzi scheme,” a “big mess,” but not unconstitutional)


83 posted on 09/07/2011 2:38:37 PM PDT by hocndoc (http://WingRight.orgI've got a mustard seed and I'm not afraid to use it.Patrol the border 2 control)
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To: redgolum
I have come to realize that it will take a complete collapse to change things.

I'm afraid that you're right. I see European-style riots coming. When, I don't know.

84 posted on 09/07/2011 2:59:30 PM PDT by GenXFreedomFighter
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To: AAABEST

If Perry sticks by his guns, and slices and dices the presumed “gotcha” questions from the Dem propaganda machine he may end up convincing the public to do what it takes to save SS (or some sort of retirement program) for the elderly.


85 posted on 09/07/2011 3:27:17 PM PDT by Tribune7 (If you demand perfection you will wind up with leftist Democrats)
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To: Ron H.

lol. because you’ll be long gone by the time it breaks down


86 posted on 09/07/2011 7:08:39 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Happiness)
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To: GeronL
lol. because you’ll be long gone by the time it breaks down

At least you admit it will take another 30-40 years before it would collapse. I just happen to belong to the largest block of voters in the nation and this block still wields some mighty power, at least until we die off in great enough numbers.

That's the Grey Party, the baby boomer generation and politicians still haven't forgotten who butters their bread, thank goodness because they know we vote in very large numbers as compared with just about any other group of voters. We cross all political, gender and ethnic lines.

87 posted on 09/07/2011 8:43:43 PM PDT by Ron H. (Loving my Deering Goodtime 2 Classic 5-stringer)
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To: redgolum

Glad you have resigned yourself to being a slave of the federal government and don’t want to handle the truth.

Good luck with that.

I’d rather beg in the streets at 70 than rely on Social “Security” like so many morons that can’t think or do for themselves.


88 posted on 09/07/2011 8:58:35 PM PDT by Fledermaus (I'm done with political parties. The GOP is useless. Anarchy is perferable to this CRAP!)
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To: ridesthemiles

Problem? The word “require”. It’s like “mandate”.

If people can’t plan for the future when they are young and making money (and spening most of it on fancy cars and bar hopping and trying to get laid) then to hell with them.

Why punish responsible people, like me, by taxing my savings and investment and then taking away the thousands upon thousands I, and my employers, have paid into the lie of a “trust” or “insurace” program?

I don’t want to be required or mandated or forced to do anything? Is that concept so foreign now it’s not understood?


89 posted on 09/07/2011 9:04:02 PM PDT by Fledermaus (I'm done with political parties. The GOP is useless. Anarchy is perferable to this CRAP!)
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To: redgolum

A typical “this issue can’t win so don’t even try and stick my head in the sand while this ponzi scheme bankrupts the country” oriented view. Like Rove.

Screw elections. Let’s get this country off socialism.

“They” said the same thing about Reagan talking about crushing the Soviet Union. Do you know how many times his Berlin speech was moved around the departments and came back with the “tear down this wall” part scratched out by those that think like Rove? Every single time.

Gee, who won that argument?


90 posted on 09/07/2011 9:08:45 PM PDT by Fledermaus (I'm done with political parties. The GOP is useless. Anarchy is perferable to this CRAP!)
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To: Fledermaus

Do you really think bringing this up in the primary’s will help Perry win the election?

SS and Fed pensions need scrapped. That will cause a lot of pain, and will be the end of any politicians career who does it.

We need to be honest about things, and not scare the horses before they get hitched up.


91 posted on 09/08/2011 4:26:38 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: redgolum
Primaries are when you definitely bring up things like this. Primaries are for ideology. General elections are for winning with you side, regardless of how much our candidate stinks.

If we can NEVER bring it up then we might as well burn the Constitution and surrender.

The GOP needs to grow a spine. The idea that it “scares seniors” is an old canard. What seniors? Heck, I'll be on Soc Sec and Medicare (technically) in 17 years. I won't be scared to hear it then or now.

My father is 76 and my mother 70 and they both know it's a ponzi scheme. Most “seniors” I know do also.

I think the day you “scare” enough seniors is dying. Along with most of the DNC’s demographics.

92 posted on 09/08/2011 9:44:59 PM PDT by Fledermaus (I'm done with political parties. The GOP is useless. Anarchy is preferable to this CRAP!)
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