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The Ugliness of Cheering for Capital Punishment
Real Clear Religion ^ | 09/11/2011 | Rod Dreher

Posted on 09/11/2011 12:25:59 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

I said here last night that the California GOP audience cheering the announcement that Texas has executed 234 condemned murderers under Rick Perry was a vile, repulsive thing.

Even when I was for capital punishment, I believed this.

Justice may require execution, but we should never rejoice in taking the life of another human being. At best, capital punishment is a necessary evil. I quit believing in capital punishment when I became convinced that the state is not trustworthy to use this power responsibly.

It happened about 10 years ago, when it emerged that a forensic scientist in Oklahoma whose testimony had been key to many convictions, including capital convictions, was actually quite incompetent. I lost track of the story, so I don't know if any of the prisoners executed thanks in part to her testimony were later exonerated. Even if they hadn't been, the fact that men were sent to their death based on the expert testimony of an incompetent scientist is chilling.

In Texas, If you are a conservative inclined to trust Rick Perry's remarks about its soundness, I invite you to read the New Yorker's long report about the Cameron Todd Willingham case. When this became a controversy in Texas, Perry went out of his way to block an official inquiry into the facts. I don't believe this hurt him, either. People have a strong need to believe in capital punishment, and they will accept anything that allows them to support it with an untroubled conscience.

I understand why people believe in capital punishment.

Personally, I believe that if you take a life cold-bloodedly, you should have to forfeit your life. But I do not believe that the government is capable of delivering the ultimate punishment in a fair, accurate manner, 100 percent of the time.

(Excerpt) Read more at realclearreligion.org ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: capitalpunishment; deathpenalty; executions; gopdebates; msnbcdebate; roddreher; texas; willingham
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To: SeekAndFind
Do not try to tell me that I am supposed to cheer the murderer!
51 posted on 09/11/2011 1:05:14 PM PDT by mountainlion (I am voting for Sarah after getting screwed again by the DC Thugs.)
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To: buffyt

Indeed. The world is not as we would wish, and in part it is because injustice is not punished. Many criminals avoid a punishment consistent with their crime. Sometime, the innocent perish, but for the criminal not to get his due is something much more common.


52 posted on 09/11/2011 1:05:54 PM PDT by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
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To: ari-freedom

I thought of that, too. That was an execution without a trial, too. You are right.

The only execution here in Texas that bothered me was Karla Faye Tucker. She had totally changed her life behind bars, was a model prisoner for many many years, became Christian, and lead other women to Christ. But she met her fate with the confidence that she was forgiven, and going to heaven.

Hopefully she is at peace now. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karla_Faye_Tucker


53 posted on 09/11/2011 1:07:17 PM PDT by buffyt (Abortion is the ultimate CHILD ABUSE!)
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To: SeekAndFind

I believe that the audience cheer in support of the
death penalty was a response to Brian Williams’
“gotcha” attempt on Perry.

Brian Williams and the rest of those network clowns
always pretend to be neutral and GOP politicians
pretend to believe in that neutrality. Sickening.

Newt gets it in a way. But his outburst was directed
at the moderator’s attempt to divide the Repub can-
didates. The issue is so much more deeper and pervasive
than moderators trying to instigate a food fight.
Conservatives need to question the premise of MSM
interview queries and begin to pull the covers off
the lib toadies masking as objective journalists.


54 posted on 09/11/2011 1:08:46 PM PDT by Sivad (NorCal Red Turf)
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To: SeekAndFind
Another liberal ringing his hands over the thought of an Innocent being executed.....I bet he is proud to support a woman's right to choose to execute her unborn child...a true innocent!!!
55 posted on 09/11/2011 1:12:52 PM PDT by ontap
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To: SeekAndFind
cheering the announcement that Texas has executed 234 condemned murderers under Rick Perry was a vile, repulsive thing.

Justice may require execution, but we should never rejoice in taking the life of another human being. At best, capital punishment is a necessary evil.

I think that gentleman misunderstood the cheering of the crowd. I know that if I were there I would not have been cheering for the taking of the lives of 234 of my fellow humans but instead I would have been cheering for final justice for 234+ victims of terrible crimes.

People have a strong need to believe in capital punishment, and they will accept anything that allows them to support it with an untroubled conscience.

Personally, I believe that if you take a life cold-bloodedly, you should have to forfeit your life. But I do not believe that the government is capable of delivering the ultimate punishment in a fair, accurate manner, 100 percent of the time.

Anyone who ever sits on a death sentence case can tell you it is not an easy thing that the state asks you to do. When you are asked to judge the guilt or innocence of a person and by that judgment bring that person’s life to a premature end; the words beyond a reasonable doubt need to be well understood and taken to heart.

Justice is never easy and mistakes are made but for civilization to endure it is absolutely necessary. The current state of civilization in Europe today is a clear demonstration of the results of slow and unsure or non-existent justice. The violence and skyrocketing crime rates are a clear result of a lenient justice system.

Civilization is the only true social contract; a term that the Left so frequently uses to describe the redistribution of wealth. By this they mean that by taking money from those that have much and giving it to those who have less we will ensure a peaceful civilization with little crime. Well the results of that contract speak for themselves.

The real social contract that is civilization is that the individual surrenders the right to seek his own justice to the state. If the state fails to carry out that justice for enough of the people who have been wronged for long enough the criminal element in society will come to no longer fear justice for crimes committed and will commit crimes at will. When justice for the injured carried out by the state comes to be seen by the people as a failed contract the people will seek justice for themselves and civilization will fail.

Chaos will ensue.

56 posted on 09/11/2011 1:16:54 PM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: PhilDragoo
Texas Executes Murderer Rapist Humberto Leal Garcia Despite Obama’s Appeal

Leal, a Mexican national, raped a 16 year old girl with a broomstick, bashed in her head and left her lying naked in the street, dead.

He was convicted in 1994. Executed just this year.
The liberals would have preferred that he be housed, fed, allowed to use exercise equipment and watch movies the rest of his life in prison.

57 posted on 09/11/2011 1:20:32 PM PDT by potlatch (Two Eyes, Two Ears, One Mouth - Use Them Proportionately)
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To: SeekAndFind
Justice may require execution, but we should never rejoice in taking the life of another human being.

To the author:

Oh, grow up! They were not rejoicing - they were making a political statement.

58 posted on 09/11/2011 1:23:08 PM PDT by donna (This is what happens when America is no longer a Christian nation.)
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To: buffyt
Having dealt with the criminal element I have no faith in the so call jail house conversion. History is rife with these people being released to just kill again!!!

Tucker later related to her sister Kari Dean Garrett [hereinafter referred to as Kari] that when she and Garrett entered the apartment bedroom, she put a pickax to Dean's head and “told him not to move, m______ucker, or you're dead.” Dean began begging for his life, and Tucker started to strike him with the pickax. Tucker expressed that every time she struck Dean she received sexual gratification. There was a girl hiding under some sheets in the bedroom, and because the lights were on and Dean had said Tucker's name several times, Tucker and Garrett decided to kill her as well. Leibrant testified that, after he was called into the apartment by Garrett, he heard a gurgling noise in the bedroom, walked back to the bedroom, and witnessed Tucker pull the pickax out of a body, smile, and hit it again. Leibrant then left the scene and walked for about an hour before he called Ronnie Burrell to come pick him up. Both Garrett and Tucker were angry with him for leaving the scene, but to make amends he helped Garrett dispose of Dean's El Camino later that evening. Leibrant was not offered any deals for his accomplice testimony except that the judge hearing his cases would be made aware of his cooperation.

Examination of the bodies revealed that Dean had been struck in the head and had several stab wounds. There were a total of 28 stab wounds, 20 of which could have been fatal, along with the fatal skull fracture. Dean's female companion, Deborah Ruth Thorton, also died from multiple stab wounds to the chest and stab wounds and blunt trauma to the back. A pickax like the one recovered at the scene could have caused the wounds that killed both of the decedents.

59 posted on 09/11/2011 1:24:08 PM PDT by ontap
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To: SeekAndFind; don-o
I would like to be able to support capital punishment under fully Biblical, Old Testament and New Testament standards.

According to the Old Testament, a capital sentence is to be carried out only on the testimony of two eye-witnesses to the crime.

According to the New Testament, capital punishment is to be carried out only by those who are without sin.

Applying Biblical standards would eliminate false convictions of the innocent based on incompetent lab work, circumstantial conjecture, or the corruption of evidence -- the kind of situation cited by Dreher, and not really that infrequent.

When Jesus was confronted with the woman caught in adultery, His argument against her being stoned to death was not that she didn't deserve it, but that there was nobody there who was morally fit to execute the sentence. It was a commentary not on the woman directly, but on everybody else in that self-righteous, blood-excited crowd.

And are we better than they were? We are a society which has killed 50,000,000 of its own young without any national repentance, and hence a society which does not collectively distinguish between the blood of innocents and criminals. We have Supreme Court which has been in open defiance of the Court of Heaven for over 40 years. It is not a court system nor a society which I would trust to handle power over life and death.

And Jesus' point in the John 7 incident was not that a grave sinner doesn't deserve capital punishment, but that the rest of us, with our unclean hands, are unqualified to carry it out.

60 posted on 09/11/2011 1:27:22 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death.)
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To: SeekAndFind

No Justice, No Peas...


61 posted on 09/11/2011 1:31:40 PM PDT by Kickass Conservative (Liberals, Useful Idiots Voting for Useless Idiots...)
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To: SeekAndFind

See this is where the liberals get it so so wrong.

The people aren’t clapping because people clamor at the death of another.

We are clapping because the death penalty itself is justice, and a person who says they believe in the state being able to administer that justice, in this wishy-washy relativistic, we-have-to-take-into-account-where-the-murderer-came-from liberal pap, we need to applaud such a person.

Supporting the death penalty for murdering another person, is stating that there is an ultimate price for someone to pay when they take another person’s life unjustly (ie murder). If we are to as liberals put it, value the life of every human being, the death penalty shows exactly how much society values human life - you lose your own when you murder someone else and steal their life. Society lives up to its job to protect the rest of its citizens when it executes murderers and prevents them from ever murdering again. The death penalty is a huge statement of a society as to how it values the lives of their own people.

Libs don’t get it, most never will.


62 posted on 09/11/2011 1:32:06 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: buffyt
The only execution here in Texas that bothered me was Karla Faye Tucker. She had totally changed her life behind bars, was a model prisoner for many many years, became Christian, and lead other women to Christ. But she met her fate with the confidence that she was forgiven, and going to heaven.

That this woman had justice served to her should not bother you.

It is good that she had time to repent and make peace with God but she was still deserving of justice as was her victim.

Repentance may save her from the justice of God but justice on Earth reserved for the victim.

When one commits a crime on Earth it is committed against Man and God. On Earth you must answer to the justice meted out by man. After death you answer for the crime against God.

63 posted on 09/11/2011 1:32:11 PM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: All
The debate was hosted in California.

California has 713 individuals sitting on Death Row, a few from the Carter years.

Since voters approved the death penalty in the late 1970s, we've executed 13. Thirteen.

Far more have died from suicide or natural causes in the interim.

If we add not a single condemned individual to our rolls, it would take us 59 years to clear our backlog by executing at a rate of one per month.

A single judge, Jeremy Fogel (Clinton appointee), has halted executions five, going on six years. The state built a brand new facility just to have lethal injections because he decided the dual use of the gas chamber was cruel and unusual. Then he was upset over the drugs used but was smacked down by the 9th circus (seriously!). By then, of course, our supply of sodium thiopental was expiring and the Obama FDA has warred against states trying to locate other sources of the drug.

People cheered because there's still a place where justice matters.

There's still a place where ultimate justice as decided by a jury of peers and reviewed by appeals courts still operates effectively.

In Calif. we know the true meaning of "justice delayed is justice denied." It's something Brian Williams could not appreciate.

64 posted on 09/11/2011 1:33:13 PM PDT by newzjunkey (Will racist demagogue Andre Carson be censured by the House?)
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To: SeekAndFind

I’m so sick of liberals. I don’t care what they think any more.


65 posted on 09/11/2011 1:33:17 PM PDT by jersey117
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To: Pontiac

The woman is lucky she had so long to sit in jail before being executed that she was able to find Christ and change her life. It shows God’s mercy and grace that she had this time. Also time to help others in jail before her sentence was carried out.

But she had temporal consequences to deal with that she still had to answer for. Would I have minded that such a person, changed this way, would have received a stay of execution from the governor and remained in jail the rest of their lives? Maybe not, given her change and desire to help others. But I do not think it was an outrage or a disgrace her sentence was carried out.


66 posted on 09/11/2011 1:36:59 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: jersey117
I’m so sick of liberals. I don’t care what they think any more.

After running through a few responses to the article in my head, I concluded that your's was the best.
67 posted on 09/11/2011 1:38:21 PM PDT by SpaceBar
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To: Reagan Man

Intentional Marxism-—use words to pervert the meaning—and control perception of the masses.

What is wrong with our system is that justice is not swift...That is the crime (and unconstitutional). When there is adequate, irrefutable evidence—then death penalty should be swift in those crimes of gross inhumanity—to prevent taxpayers from supporting such vile scum and to prevent future crime. It is Justice, although the victims need to be compensated as much as possible from the estate of the perpetrator.

Marxist twisting—presents people as cheering for “murder” when actually they cheer for Justice and Rule of Law. MSM constantly repeats these lies to condition and shape perceptions of the useful idiots.


68 posted on 09/11/2011 1:43:42 PM PDT by savagesusie
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To: TASMANIANRED

Agreed. The cognitive dissonance by the left(in favor of abortion while opposed to the death penalty) is pretty bad. Although I can certainly understand why a conservative would be reluctant to trust the government to be able to handle competently the execution of the correct murderer.


69 posted on 09/11/2011 1:44:27 PM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: Mrs. Don-o

The point of the woman in adultery issue with Jesus was not to say capital punishment can only be done by someone sinless. They were trying to trap Jesus. If He said stone her, where was His mercy, this healing man of God? Also they would appear to be right if Jesus agreed with them, upping their power. If He said Don’t stone her, He’d be going against clear law of Leviticus. So instead He gave an answer that didn’t entrap Him they were not expecting and had no response for.

The Pharisees were hell-bent in trying to catch Jesus in logical pretzels. Remember the whole taxes question? If Jesus said ‘pay taxes’ then he was putting the state before God, if He said honor God, they’d say he was telling people to break Roman law. He said whose coin is it, they said Caesars, and He said “Then give unto Caesar what it Caesar’s and give unto God what is God’s.”

Begin under grace does not magically get rid of severe temporal consequences.


70 posted on 09/11/2011 1:45:21 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

“Being” not “begin”


71 posted on 09/11/2011 1:45:52 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: All
Personally, I believe that if you take a life cold-bloodedly, you should have to forfeit your life. But I do not believe that the government is capable of delivering the ultimate punishment in a fair, accurate manner, 100 percent of the time.

Then you would have no problem with vigilantly justice? Oh, I get it - you would prefer that 1000 murderers go free lest 1 be unfairly executed.

Good enough for you perhaps, but not good enough for me.

72 posted on 09/11/2011 1:54:07 PM PDT by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
The context of John 8:3-11 is that they were trying to trap Jesus into going against Roman authority which held sway over decisions of capital punishment. If He supported her stoning under the Law of Moses, it would be used against him with the Romans. If He opposed the Law of Moses, He would be condemned as a heretic. It was a trap. He knew they were hypocrites since they let the adulterous man go, not the woman. His way out of the trap was to guilt those hypocritical men, saying they lacked moral authority to stone her to death.

Further, since very early versions of John don't include the story at all, there's some question about its authenticity: Is 'Let Him Who Is Without Sin Cast the First Stone' Biblical?

It's a few things to think about.

73 posted on 09/11/2011 1:56:58 PM PDT by newzjunkey (Will racist demagogue Andre Carson be censured by the House?)
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To: SeekAndFind

I believe murderers should be killed. That said, I too have a problem with the State, or anyone for that matter, having such a power. Killing someone in self defense is 100% correct. But thats about it, I have severe reservations about it. That said, I am not vehemently against it, and I don’t feel sorry for the scumbags who get it. But in the back of my mind, I am always left wonder.. but what if.. and then it would be too late. I’m not the only conservative who feels that way either. We still like to see bad guys die, we just feel uneasy about capital punishment.


74 posted on 09/11/2011 1:59:59 PM PDT by Paradox (Democrats on Obama, They can't deny him, He is them.)
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To: SeekAndFind

but we should never rejoice in taking the life of another human being

Murderers are not human beings, I believe in an eye for an eye. You murder you die,period.


75 posted on 09/11/2011 2:00:20 PM PDT by bikerman
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To: SeekAndFind

The Heavenly Father HIMSELF set in motion the act of capital punishment for specific crimes.... bleeding heart liberals sure do like to poke their fingers in the EYE of the Creator 24/7.


76 posted on 09/11/2011 2:03:24 PM PDT by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: SeekAndFind

“People have a strong need to believe in capital punishment”

Wrong. We have a built-in need to believe the word of God.

“Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.” - Genesis 9:6


77 posted on 09/11/2011 2:03:37 PM PDT by RoadTest (Organized religion is no substitute for the relationship the living God wants with you.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Maybe libs would feel better about capitol punishment if we encased the condemned in an artificial womb prior to execution.


78 posted on 09/11/2011 2:04:12 PM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: RavenATB

Exactly. Thank you for stating it clearly.


79 posted on 09/11/2011 2:13:16 PM PDT by Bigg Red (Another Maryland girl for Palin in 2012)
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To: SeekAndFind

Cheering for justice is not cheering for Capital Punishment. I do not cheer when a murderer is put to death. The idiots who do apparently do not grasp the gravity of the situation — the value of the the life (or lives) of the victims lost; the waste of the life of the murderer — who COULD have been more than the criminal they CHOSE to be; the WASTE of social resources invested in this person, especially AFTER he/she enters the justice system. So much thrown away because of the stupid, selfish, evil choices of ONE person — the criminal.

No, it’s not capital punishment they cheer for, its justice. And its applause for someone, for a state that actually has the audacity and fortitude to carry OUT the sentences imposed upon them....


80 posted on 09/11/2011 2:15:37 PM PDT by patriot preacher
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To: Pontiac

Well said


81 posted on 09/11/2011 2:15:59 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (We kneel to no prince but the Prince of Peace)
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To: bmwcyle

I think a broad smile and light applause should suffice.


82 posted on 09/11/2011 2:18:39 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Secret Agent Man
But it is not for you or I to say that this woman’s conversion merits a commutation of her sentence. The debt of justice is not to us.

A small part of her debt is to the state and the law gives the state the power to lessen her sentence but the real debt of justice was to the victims and the victims’ families.

Really this woman had only one path to justice and that was through her death.

I think it was a Clint Eastwood movie in which the character says something to the effect that murder is the worst crime, you take every thing a man has and everything he is ever going to have. There is only one way to pay off a debt like that.

83 posted on 09/11/2011 2:18:55 PM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Secret Agent Man
But they were right according to the standards of Leviticus. They were wrong according to the standards to Jesus.

But your interpretation of this incident, is that Jesus really wasn't teaching standards at all? He just gave a weasel-worded comment to get himself out of a politically dicey situation, rather than give a clear teaching showing the more perfect expression of the will of God?

Can't say I'd buy that.

84 posted on 09/11/2011 2:20:29 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death.)
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To: TASMANIANRED

Thanks

It has taken years to learn to think this clearly.

And I owe much of it to Jim Rob and the people on this forum.


85 posted on 09/11/2011 2:22:18 PM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Macoozie

Unfortunately, when government refuses to execute a murderer, they usually instead place the murderer in protective custody (”prison”) where the victim’s family members cannot get to that murderer and administer justice themselves. For them, there is no closure.


86 posted on 09/11/2011 2:24:28 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Mrs. Don-o

“Applying Biblical standards would eliminate false convictions of the innocent based on incompetent lab work, circumstantial conjecture, or the corruption of evidence — the kind of situation cited by Dreher, and not really that infrequent.”
*************************************************************
You’ve stated what you think we CAN’T do to murderers. What is your solution offered instead? What about a guy who chops his family up in a shredder with no two witnesses? I’m not attacking your values BTW I honestly want to know.


87 posted on 09/11/2011 2:26:00 PM PDT by WePledge (Ich werde fur immer ein Hollenhund werden. Semper Fidelis)
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To: Lancey Howard

The pom poms in the house belong to my stepdaughter. She is the only one trained to use them.


88 posted on 09/11/2011 2:28:36 PM PDT by bmwcyle (Obama is a Communist, a Muslim, and an illegal alien)
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To: savagesusie
>>>>>What is wrong with our system is that justice is not swift...That is the crime (and unconstitutional).

Agreed. After the last 50 years of '60`s liberalism and the lefts promotion of political correctness, Americans are left with a judicial system that works at a snails pace, if it works at all. And a system that finds the criminal a victim in many cases and the real victims left unprotected to the wrath of civil libertarians who undermine the Constitution with impunity.

Texas treats criminals with real consequences of justice. The rule of law is always worth cheering for.

89 posted on 09/11/2011 2:33:32 PM PDT by Reagan Man ("In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.")
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To: newzjunkey
I don't accept that Jesus was twisting and turning just to get Himself off the hook. I maintain the believers' assumption that, as with "every word that comes forth from the mouth of God," there was a godly principle involved. See #84.

If you want to delete this incident altogether --- put together an exacto-knife-edited version of the Gospels --- (sigh...) Welcome to The Jesus Seminar.

90 posted on 09/11/2011 2:33:53 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death.)
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To: SeekAndFind

“But I do not believe that the government is capable of delivering the ultimate punishment in a fair, accurate manner, 100 percent of the time.”

Then apply the same “logic” to ABORTION!


91 posted on 09/11/2011 2:38:03 PM PDT by RavenATB ("Destroy the family and you destroy the country!" ~Vladimir Lenin)
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To: RavenATB

WINNER!!


92 posted on 09/11/2011 2:39:30 PM PDT by 353FMG (Liberalism is Satan's handiwork.)
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To: SeekAndFind

“But I do not believe that the government is capable of delivering the ultimate punishment in a fair, accurate manner, 100 percent of the time.”

It’s interesting that liberals tell us we should outlaw execution of cold-blooded killers because they fear that out of the hundreds and/or thousands of convicted killers, that one may be innocent. All this advocacy to protect that one “potential” innocent, and at the same time they won’t lift a finger to stop abortion...including late-term abortion...wherein every single life that’s ended is innocent.


93 posted on 09/11/2011 2:42:22 PM PDT by RavenATB ("Destroy the family and you destroy the country!" ~Vladimir Lenin)
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To: SeekAndFind
I quit believing in capital punishment when I became convinced that the state is not trustworthy to use this power responsibly.

This is a very compelling point Dreher makes, and I have a hard time arguing with it.

I realize justice is imperfect and does need to be rendered as best we can, but there's also a side of me that wonders if our society has the moral authority to carry it out in its strongest terms. Objectively speaking, a justice system that can produce an OJ jury, a Clinton presidency or the legal idiocy surrounding the prosecution of U.S. military personnel in Iraq has no business even putting people in jail, let alone executing them.

94 posted on 09/11/2011 2:48:13 PM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: WePledge
I think we can sentence to life imprisonment without possibility of parole. I don't know why the "hard labor" requirement got dropped, either. The idea should be not just detainment and sequestration from society, but a hard and penal life.

A problem of a different sort comes up when a man already doing life imprisonment reoffends: say he kills another inmate or a guard, or even a lesser-than-homicide but still grave offense such a forcible sodomy or other aggravated assaults. What more can you do? At that point, execution becomes more unavoidable as the criminal has demonstrated that even imprisonment has not proved sufficient to "protect society": since a guard or a fellow prisoner also constitutes part of "society".

I wish there were still penal colonies. Maybe some crevice in the planet Mars, or 5 miles under the Pacific in the Marianas Trench. Unfortunately, there's noplace so remote on Earth, anymore, that a criminal couldn't escape. I can easily envision well-organized criminals (terrorists or narcotraficantes) freeing their own with helicopters and heavy weaponry.

But hopefully, for those types we'd at least have the two eye-witnesses.

95 posted on 09/11/2011 2:52:10 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death.)
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To: Pontiac

I owe a debt as well.


96 posted on 09/11/2011 2:52:31 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (We kneel to no prince but the Prince of Peace)
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To: RavenATB

They also demand the execution of other innocents..eg Terri Shiavo, including pretending that starvation and dehydration is blissful.

Wouldn’t the obvious solution to the problem be to starve those on death row. They can bliss out.


97 posted on 09/11/2011 2:55:55 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (We kneel to no prince but the Prince of Peace)
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To: Alberta's Child

They wouldn’t have gotten a conviction to be in question.


98 posted on 09/11/2011 2:56:57 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (We kneel to no prince but the Prince of Peace)
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To: SeekAndFind
I say if someone kills another person then the killer should die in the same fashion. There a lot of people in the US that would have NO problem pulling the switch or the trigger to end the life of a killer. I also do not believe in the age of a killer should automatically prevent them from also paying the punishment.

I am getting really tired of the PC crap that the criminal has more rights than the victim.

If you kill someone you should die and NOT after 20-30 years but within 20-30 days.

99 posted on 09/11/2011 2:57:51 PM PDT by SledgeCS (I will vote for Obama when he says "The F'ing MUSLIMS attacked the USA and are the enemy")
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To: SeekAndFind

Texas says, “If you kill somebody, we’re going to kill you back. It’s our policy.”


100 posted on 09/11/2011 3:05:25 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (I like both Perry and Palin, and will vote for whichever of them wins.)
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