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Utah massacre site dedicated as national landmark
AP via SFGate ^ | 9/11/11

Posted on 09/11/2011 10:15:02 PM PDT by SmithL

The southern Utah site of a wagon train massacre was dedicated Sunday as a national historic landmark 154 years to the day after the tragedy occurred.

About 350 people watched as Zion National Park Superintendent Jock Whitworth presented plaques to mark the Mountain Meadows Massacre Historic Site 30 miles north of St. George.

The 760-acre site is where 120 members of an Arkansas wagon train were shot and killed by a Mormon militia on Sept. 11, 1857. The Baker-Fancher wagon train stopped in the meadows on its way to California when it was attacked.

Government officials, church leaders and descendants of the pioneers spoke at the dedication ceremony, which took place under sunny skies two months after the U.S. Interior Department upgraded the site's status to a historic landmark.

Whitworth hailed the designation, saying it represents a "reconciliation" among different groups involved. Historic landmarks have "exceptional value and quality" in teaching Americans about their past, he added.

"Each national historic landmark is an indispensable chapter in our national story," he told the crowd. "They include the shining episodes, but they also include the darkest and most difficult, even the one that occurred here 154 years ago today."

The presidents of the Mountain Meadows Monument Foundation, Mountain Meadows Association and Mountain Meadows Massacre Descendants led a prayer and then read the names of each victim and survivor of the wagon train.

The descendant organizations worked for nearly a decade to elevate the meadows to historic landmark status. In 2008, the Mormon church, whose leaders in the past had downplayed the faith's role in the massacre, took the lead in pushing for the landmark designation, filing the application with the parks service.

(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


TOPICS: Government; US: Utah
KEYWORDS: inman; massacre; mormons; mountainmeadows; zionnationalpark

1 posted on 09/11/2011 10:15:05 PM PDT by SmithL
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To: SmithL

Lets get something straight. An anthropoligist examined the bones of the people killed and said that they weren’t shot but were bludgened to death with tomahawks. Clearly it was the indians and not the Mormons who killed them. And, the indians were justified because the people had left poisoned meat out for the indians, killing several.


2 posted on 09/11/2011 10:30:03 PM PDT by webboy45
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To: webboy45
Can let the physical evidence conflict with the preferred official story. It wouldn't be politically correct.
3 posted on 09/11/2011 10:33:23 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: webboy45

Mormons killed them. But your attempt at satire was pretty good.


4 posted on 09/11/2011 10:40:14 PM PDT by ExtremeUnction
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To: webboy45
The 760-acre site is where 120 members of an Arkansas wagon train were shot and killed by a Mormon militia on Sept. 11, 1857.

Wait just a minute...here!! Are YOU saying the AP is wrong here...and you have evidence that proves this?

Different story...but Quanah Parker dealt with deceit and lies all the time...from whites and Indians both.

I'd gather the real story, isn't what you think.

5 posted on 09/11/2011 10:42:35 PM PDT by Osage Orange (Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum)
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To: webboy45

Nice try at revisional history. Henry Lee and others led the group that murdered the Gentiles at the direction of the Church Leaders. This has been acknowledged by the Church.


6 posted on 09/11/2011 10:47:36 PM PDT by TaMoDee (GO PACK GO to Super Bowl XLVI)
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To: webboy45

Yeah, right. But weren’t those Indians something-ites, descended from the lost tribe of Israel? Another claim for which there is zero historical proof?


7 posted on 09/11/2011 10:51:40 PM PDT by Lou Budvis
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To: greyfoxx39; colorcountry; Colofornian; Elsie; Godzilla; MHGinTN; narses; reaganaut; SENTINEL; ...
Interesting news article accompanied by ridiculous LDS spin ping.
8 posted on 09/11/2011 10:54:54 PM PDT by Zakeet (If it ain't broke, the Wee Wee will fix it until it is)
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To: webboy45
Okay...just for fun.

Do you really think whites didn't scalp? Mutilate? Torture? Capture? Kill women and children?

Do you really think whites wouldn't try to "fake" a killing...to blame it on Indians?

And do you REALLY think it's "clear"? I mean REALLY?

9 posted on 09/11/2011 10:55:10 PM PDT by Osage Orange (Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum)
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To: webboy45

Baloney. The evidence is pretty clear what happened there. The Mormons used Indians to hide their identity and when that failed, they took matters into their own hands. A Mormon was executed for planning this disgrace. Take your revisionist history elsewhere.


10 posted on 09/11/2011 10:59:04 PM PDT by Lazlo in PA (Now living in a newly minted Red State.)
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To: webboy45

No, you get something straight Brigham Young ordered the massacre.


11 posted on 09/11/2011 11:00:41 PM PDT by svcw (iphone 5 release date late October - rats)
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To: TaMoDee; webboy45
In 2008, the Mormon church, whose leaders in the past had downplayed the faith's role in the massacre, took the lead in pushing for the landmark designation, filing the application with the parks service.

Geesh....even LDS, Inc. admits their members were involved.

I think on this point they knew when to "cut their losses".

Of course they've ceded many points...of the "old church"...but can't run from their prophets words and deeds...without hurting the very core of their religion. LDS, Inc...is smart enough to figure that out..at least to this point.

That said....The Hive...is always trying to spin the story.

HA!!

12 posted on 09/11/2011 11:05:18 PM PDT by Osage Orange (Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum)
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To: webboy45

13 posted on 09/11/2011 11:09:42 PM PDT by Lazlo in PA (Now living in a newly minted Red State.)
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To: webboy45

That’s pretty funny. Next you’ll say J Smith got the Book of Mormon off of some gold plates.


14 posted on 09/11/2011 11:36:07 PM PDT by LouAvul
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To: SmithL
I had done considerable reading about the event when we went to visit the site around 15 years ago. As I try to go to such places very early, (same when we went to the little Bighorn site) we got there just about daybreak and no people were there. It was a foggy morning and the wife would not get out of the motor home to go with me. I was walking up from the parking area when a couple coyotes started yapping and howling, found it was truly very spooky.

While looking from the monument across the brushy terrain , it was not hard to visualize the horror that had transpired there.

15 posted on 09/11/2011 11:37:12 PM PDT by Sea Parrot (Democrats creation of the entitlement class will prove out to be their very own Frankenstein monster)
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To: webboy45

I went to high school with Jock.


16 posted on 09/11/2011 11:57:40 PM PDT by tiki
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To: webboy45

If you are relating your post as fact, it is evident you have done no actual research into the massacre’s history. Or, you are attempting to justify what occurred by rewriting said history of September 11-16, 1857.

It is true that some of the Mormons dressed as Indians committed the massacre with the help of local Paiute Indians. But when they attacked, they found that the Arkansas party was well armed, knew how to use those arms and for five days fought back very hard. After killing and wounding some of the Paiutes, (AKA Diggers) who were foolish and had no idea how to fight. The Mormons then came up with the scheme for some Whites to parley and John D. Lee went in with a white flag of truce to offer the party safety from the Indians (both real and fake Mormon ones) if they would surrender their firearms. After much distrust, the party finally agreed, once done, women and children separated from the males, the Mormons and Indians then slaughtered all of the defenseless party except for 17 of the very young. These youngest were then adopted by Mormon families, but some were very aware and remembered had happened.

John D. Lee was the only one ever held accountable for the massacre, after his trial and conviction, in 1877 he was taken back to site of the Massacre at Mountain Meadows. There he was made to sit upon his own coffin and executed by a firing squad.

One of the saddest things I have read was related by one of the survivors. She said her family had just sat down for a breakfast of fried rabbit, when her sister’s head exploded.


17 posted on 09/12/2011 12:25:35 AM PDT by Sea Parrot (Democrats creation of the entitlement class will prove out to be their very own Frankenstein monster)
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To: Osage Orange; webboy45

The French brought the fine art of scalping to the American Indian.


18 posted on 09/12/2011 12:29:37 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: Osage Orange
"Do you really think whites didn't scalp? Mutilate? Torture? Capture? Kill women and children? Do you really think whites wouldn't try to "fake" a killing...to blame it on Indians? And do you REALLY think it's "clear"? I mean REALLY? " ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ CSI Utah
19 posted on 09/12/2011 12:58:16 AM PDT by Morgana (I don't speak much...............but when I do....)
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To: webboy45
It's beyond any shadow of a doubt that local mormons and mormon leaders participated (on the ground and behind the scenes) in this atrocity. There were confessions, convictions and even an execution of the local mormon militia members by ALL MORMON juries. Bringham Young himself condemned and even excommunicated many of them.

Welcome to reality. You're acting like Mitt Romney when he's confronted by inconvenient facts - deny the truth and lash out at the truth-tellers.

20 posted on 09/12/2011 1:04:06 AM PDT by AAABEST (Et lux in tenebris lucet: et tenebrae eam non comprehenderunt)
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To: SmithL

Tragedy my butt. The Mountain Meadows Massacre was the largest act of mass murder of American civilians until 9/11 came along.


21 posted on 09/12/2011 2:05:32 AM PDT by SpaceBar
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To: Vendome

“The French brought the fine art of scalping to the American Indian.”

Where, precisely, did you come up with that gem? Totally preposterous. The natives were scalping each other back and forth LONG before Columbian contact. There’s quite a lot of archaeological evidence for scalping in the Americas long before Europeans ever made it here, so it’d be quite the coup if the French had managed to teach the Indians the whole business.

As an example, the Crow Creek Massacre of 1325. “Two individuals had survived previous scalping incidents, and were in the process of healing which was indicated by the bony re-growth of their skulls...”

Further: “...scalping was indiscriminately performed, bodies were burned, and there is evidence of the removal of limbs through various means.”

Both quotes taken from:
Willey, P. 1982 Osteology of the Crow Creek Massacre. Unpublished Ph.D. dissertation, Department of Anthropology, University of Tennessee, Knoxville.


22 posted on 09/12/2011 3:36:36 AM PDT by jameslalor
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To: webboy45
Lets get something straight. An anthropoligist examined the bones of the people killed and said that they weren’t shot but were bludgened to death with tomahawks. Clearly it was the indians and not the Mormons who killed them. And, the indians were justified because the people had left poisoned meat out for the indians, killing several.

Remark quoted in its entirety, to stress the type thing that some will stoop to post to revise history. Did you really believe you could slip that bilge past alert members?

23 posted on 09/12/2011 3:50:01 AM PDT by Graybeard58
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To: webboy45
You really think you could slip that by us skippy? I have ancestors in Arkansas buried in the same cemetery as some of the returned victims. The event tself is well woven in Arkansas history, though it took place in Utah.

The Mormons had their blood all over their hands with this massacre, and I am surprised one their flock would stoop to try to revise the story over 150 years later. Nice try.

24 posted on 09/12/2011 4:07:04 AM PDT by catfish1957 (Hey algore...You'll have to pry the steering wheel of my 317 HP V8 truck from my cold dead hands)
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To: webboy45
Um, the Mormons confessed...

I mean I now revising and creating facts is a Mormon habit, but when the higher ups even come clean...

25 posted on 09/12/2011 4:07:56 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: webboy45

mormon turds. I had family that were regulars on wagon trains. Those days were hard and somewhat innocent but evil still existed. The bravery and courage of those early Americans is inspiring.


26 posted on 09/12/2011 4:24:52 AM PDT by st.eqed
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To: ExtremeUnction
But your attempt at satire disinformation was pretty good. ...other than it had NO facts at all.
27 posted on 09/12/2011 4:56:47 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Osage Orange
In 2008, the Mormon church, whose leaders in the past had downplayed the faith's role in the massacre, took the lead in pushing for the landmark designation, filing the application with the parks service.

Makes ME wonder what ELSE was in the works!

28 posted on 09/12/2011 4:58:50 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: SpaceBar
The Mountain Meadows Massacre was the largest act of mass murder of American civilians until 9/11 came along.

But it WAS 9-11!!!

Sept. 11, 1857

29 posted on 09/12/2011 5:01:42 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: webboy45
Lets get something straight.

Obama says:

"Let me be perfectly clear..."


"I am a true believer in the gospel of Jesus Christ, I do not believe everything that is now being taught and practiced by Brigham Young.

 

I do not care who hears it. It is my last word - it is so.

 

I believe he is lead­ing the people astray, downward to destruction.

 

But I believe in the gospel that was taught in its purity by Joseph Smith, in former days.

 

I have my reasons for it.

 

 

 

 

"I studied to make this man's [Brigham Young] will my pleasure for thirty years.

 

See, now, what I have come to this day!

 

 

 

"I have been sacrificed in a cowardly, dastardly manner."    (Lee enun­ciated this sentence with marked emphasis.)

 

 

 

Excerpted from --> http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mountainmeadows/leeexecution.html

30 posted on 09/12/2011 5:10:37 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: ejonesie22

Plus when Brigham Young ordered the first burial cairn monument and cross torn down he said of the Bibical verse quoted there..”Vengence is mine saith the Lord”

“No, vengence is mine and Ive taken some” thus admitting to reaponsibility for the massacre...

he also hid those being sought for proscecution for the crimes and covered up the Mormon connection by blaming the Indians...


31 posted on 09/12/2011 5:17:36 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: webboy45; All
See: September 11 Significant to Utah Native Americans [Real 19th-century Mormonism]
32 posted on 09/12/2011 5:37:09 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Zakeet; greyfoxx39; colorcountry; Colofornian; Elsie; Godzilla; MHGinTN; narses; reaganaut; ...
Zion National Park Superintendent Jock Whitworth presented plaques to mark the Mountain Meadows Massacre Historic Site 30 miles north of St. George.

And Jock Whitworth and Zion National Park are useful pawns.

33 posted on 09/12/2011 5:38:25 AM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where INVITED Freepers will meet again next summer. Jim Robinson Too)
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To: Vendome

“The French brought the fine art of scalping to the American Indian.”

That is BS, or liberal hokum....The Indians were already scalping when the first Frenchman, Cartier, came down the Saint Lawrence in 1535.


34 posted on 09/12/2011 5:57:18 AM PDT by BilLies (330,000 northern whites died between 1861-65 so that Obama could use Affirmative Action.)
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To: BilLies; jameslalor

I blame the French for a lot of things...


35 posted on 09/12/2011 6:49:22 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: Vendome

:-)


36 posted on 09/12/2011 7:04:29 AM PDT by BilLies (330,000 northern whites died between 1861-65 so that Obama could use Affirmative Action.)
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To: webboy45

Herculeze!

You are correct that an anthropoligist examined the bones, but contrary to your fantasy, the anthropoligist declared that they were NOT bludgened to death. Rather, it was clearly evident that they WERE shot in the head.

You appear to be an ignorant zealot attempting to distort the facts and spread lies. Get a life, Buckwheat.


37 posted on 09/12/2011 7:48:57 AM PDT by Ernie Kaputnik ((It's a mad, mad, mad world.))
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To: Vendome

I’d wager...the French asked the Indians do “just” scalp them, but not kill them.


38 posted on 09/12/2011 3:14:14 PM PDT by Osage Orange (Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum)
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To: Osage Orange

Placemark


39 posted on 09/12/2011 3:45:41 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Obama has made it official now..a white is only 3/5s a person in the US. Diversity wins.)
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To: Vendome; Osage Orange; webboy45

****The French brought the fine art of scalping to the American Indian.****

It’s older than that. Both Capt John Smith and Hernando de Soto found indians scalping indians in the Americas.

Here is some interesting info about pre-Colombian scalping.

http://www.dickshovel.com/scalp.html

More info. The Miltmore wagon train and the Shepherd wagon trains were attacked by mormons dressed as Indians. Survivors of these trains reported that the “Indians” spoke good english, had blond hair, blue eyes and beards.

They killed several people from these trains.


40 posted on 09/12/2011 4:01:52 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Click my name. See my home page, if you dare! NEW PHOTOS & PAINTINGS)
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To: Vendome
I blame the French for a lot of things.

For one thing, mimes.

41 posted on 09/12/2011 9:06:51 PM PDT by Lizavetta (You get what you tolerate)
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To: Lizavetta

What?

I couldn’t hear you....

Could you get with Shields and Yarnell and maybe tap your message in morse code, on some air glass?


42 posted on 09/13/2011 12:53:26 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: Vendome

What passed for entertainment in the 70s still blows my mind.


43 posted on 09/13/2011 5:27:41 PM PDT by Lizavetta (You get what you tolerate)
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To: Lizavetta

I know!

I use to watch their show! LOL


44 posted on 09/13/2011 11:13:48 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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