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(LIVE THREAD!) Republican Presidential Debate #5 - Sep. 12, 2011 8pm/5pm: Tampa, FL (CNN)
2012 Election Central ^ | Sept. 12, 2011 | CNN/Tea Party Express

Posted on 09/12/2011 7:14:30 AM PDT by newzjunkey

Broadcast on: CNN

Broadcast time: 8pm EDT/5pm PDT

The Candidates:

Michele Bachmann

Bachmann is serving her 3rd full term in the U.S. House. Founder of the House Tea Party Caucus, she earned a Master of Laws degree, worked as a tax attorney, and was a foster mother for 23 teenagers. She is a member of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.

Herman Cain

Cain is the former chief executive of Godfather's Pizza and former chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City. He lost the Georgia Republican primary for a U.S. Senate seat in 2004. He was recently the host of Atlanta-based radio show.

Newt Gingrich

Gingrich served as Speaker of the United States House of Representatives from 1995 to 1999. He represented Georgia's 6th congressional district as a Republican member from 1979 to 1999. He has a PhD in modern European history.

Jon Huntsman

Huntsman was Utah Governor, former ambassador to China under Barack Obama.

Ron Paul

Paul is serving his 11th full term in the U.S. House. He’s an ob-gyn and was Libertarian nominee for president in 1988. He unsuccessfully sought the Republican nomination for president in 2008

Rick Perry

Perry is the three term governor of Texas, from 2000 to current. He is a retired Air Force captain for former farmer. He has a degree in animal science.

Mitt Romney

Romney was governor of Massachusetts (2003 to 2007) and former CEO of Bain Capital, a private equity investment firm. He unsuccessfully sought the Republican 2008 nomination for president. He has an MBA (Harvard) and JD (Harvard Law).

Rick Santorum

Santorum served two terms in the U.S. House and two terms in the U.S. Senate. He became the Senate's third-ranking Republican in 2001. He was defeated for reelection in 2006.

TOPICS: Breaking News; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2012; 2012debates; 2012gopdebates; 2012gopprimary; bachmann; cain; debate; debate2012; debates; fldebate; gingrich; gopdebate; hermancain; huntsman; jonhuntsman; jonhuntsmanjr; jonhuntsmansr; michelebachmann; mittromney; newt; newtgingrich; noot; perry; ponzischeme; presidentialdebate; rickperry; ricksantorum; romney; ronpaul; santorum; teaparty; teapartydebate; teapartyexpress
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To: Catholic Iowan
"The FDA has received no reports of brain damage as a result of HPV vaccines Gardasil and Cervarix. Among the reports that correlate seriously adverse reactions to either, the FDA lists blood clots, Guillain-Barre Syndrome, and 68 deaths during the entire run of the drugs. The FDA found no causal connection to any of these serious adverse events and found plenty of contributing factors to all — and all of the events are exceedingly rare."

In other words, none of the deaths was specifically linked to Guardasil as the cause - correlation is not causation.

2,161 posted on 09/13/2011 8:19:07 AM PDT by CA Conservative (Texan by birth, Californian by circumstance)
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To: navymom1

here here, navymom1.

The thread last night was sickening to read. Like you said, Wolf threw out the bait, and the bait is ONLY to provide the DNC a good commercial come next fall and so many were refusing to do anything except bash conservatives.

I really don’t understand it. Oh, some claim that it’s time to “rid the party of rinos, etc”......but meanwhile, other than Newt, who I give a TON of credit for firing back at the media, everyone just seemd to be oh too happy to provide wolf and the DNC exactly what they wanted.

Meanwhile......unemployment remains over 9%, but let’s not talk about that, I mean this one or that one did something 20 years ago that we just cannot let go!

2,162 posted on 09/13/2011 8:20:02 AM PDT by swpa_mom
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To: swpa_mom

I agree and what frightens me more than unemployment is the Supreme Court. If we lose control of that, our Republic as we know it is indeed, and without exaggeration, finished.

2,163 posted on 09/13/2011 8:23:33 AM PDT by navymom1
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To: rodguy911

You’re very kind where I didn’t believe too many of us would be. I hear your points but am extremely worried about losing control of The Supreme Court. If we lose that, we lose our Republic as we know it.

2,164 posted on 09/13/2011 8:26:44 AM PDT by navymom1
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To: navymom1

agree re: the SC. Wonder why Wolf didn’t ask any questions about that?

2,165 posted on 09/13/2011 8:30:43 AM PDT by swpa_mom
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To: mojitojoe

She cut her hair, she’s running.

My mother and sister just went for hair cuts too. Does that indicate they’re ready to throw their hats into the ring? LOL!

2,166 posted on 09/13/2011 8:31:01 AM PDT by Personal Responsibility (Government rushes to help the irresponsible and does little for the responsible)
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To: bvw

No worries. My own posts frequently suffer the same problem - and I should deservedly be hit upside the head hard for that “shitty parent” comment. Thank you for the relatively gentle smack instead of what I actually deserved!

You are right, of course, in that warts don’t mean automatic cancer. But, since most cases of cevical, and a large number of cases of vaginal cancer ARE caused by HPV, where is the problem in reducing the risk by using a vaccine? That is my thinking. We go to the beach, the kids get sunscreen applied. Just in case. They all get the MMR vaccine (as seperate doses - I still don’t trust the combined dose) as I am not risking their health down the line.
We, as one of the very very few things the UN actually was forced to do right by, I believe, the USA, even wiped out smallpox by vaccinating every last person on the planet. I actually remember the day it was announced as an extinct disease. Why not HPV?

Oh, the vaccine isn’t perfect, but it protects against (I think - it used to be 4 but has been uprated since I last looked) 10 of the strains of HPV that are definitely known to cause cancer.

My kids were, and grandkids are, taught abstinence. On some it worked - on my elder daughter, having given us 6 grandchildren and counting already, I don’t think that lesson took particularly well!
They were/are also taught - by me - what safe sex is and where the condoms, spermicide and barriers are kept since we don’t have the option of home schooling here and I well remember what it is like to be a randy teen and a father before 20!
I will do everything in my power to keep them safe from harm without raising them to be coddled wimps. Like you, I strongly dislike being told how to raise my kids, but if something comes up that helps them they get it, if I have to eat lettuce sandwiches for a month to pay for it.

Without the vaccine, the chances of my grandaughters developing cervical cancer is low but measurable. With the vaccine it is much, much lower. Worth it, in my book.

I think on this topic we’ll have to agree to disagree, since you won’t persuade me and I won’t persuade you. But thank you for the spirited discussion!

2,167 posted on 09/13/2011 8:36:42 AM PDT by EnglishCon
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To: Personal Responsibility

Time will tell

2,168 posted on 09/13/2011 8:52:32 AM PDT by mojitojoe (WH says potus didn’t feel the earthquake. No worries. Another is scheduled for November 2012)
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To: navymom1; All

“Go ahead and flame me with high-minded principals, but I say this board needs to curtail the infighting, focus instead on the enemy, and then cast our votes for who we think can best keep Obama from winning another term. He’s the enemy.”

While I agree with you in have to realize that “some” (like Romney & Paul) that are running for the GOP nomination are the enemy as well; wolves in sheep clothing. A Romney or Paul presidency would be as damaging to true conservatism (what will actually fix this country) as 4 more years of Obama.

Now that being said, it does bother me that Perry and Palin supporters are in a blood feud that could damage the general election. So, I see your point.

2,169 posted on 09/13/2011 8:58:02 AM PDT by Sola Veritas (Trying to speak truth - not always with the best grammar or spelling)
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To: mojitojoe

Yes it will but the only thing you can factually say right now is she is not currently a declared canddiate for President.

2,170 posted on 09/13/2011 8:58:35 AM PDT by Personal Responsibility (Government rushes to help the irresponsible and does little for the responsible)
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To: navymom1
thanks no reason to be anything else.

Your point about the circular firing squad is right on. We should always shoot the dems with all we have and tread lightly on our own.

Primaries are tough. the trick is to dissect our own candidates without mortally wounding them. It's not always pretty.

We all share your concerns as well.

2,171 posted on 09/13/2011 9:04:12 AM PDT by rodguy911 (FreeRepublic:Land of the Free because of the Brave--Sarah Palin 2012)
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To: rodguy911
the trick is to dissect our own candidates without mortally wounding them.

Bachman went in for the kill last night and she will regret it. This morning's feedback is not at all positive for her. She got realy ugly during the debate (must be the lawyer in her).

2,172 posted on 09/13/2011 9:09:11 AM PDT by jersey117
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To: EnglishCon

I’m glad we all avoid distempers, dyspepsia and anginas, whether chav, mod, rocker or oxbridgite.

To me, I would have been happier to know as a a parent that the the vaccine stops some common forms of warts. I don’t like warts. I hates warts. I have a wart-remover first-aid pack which freezes them off ready in the bathroom cabinet.

I bought that when I happened one morning to see a wart growing on my fingertip. Awful, awful, horrid. Ran to the druggist right away and spent $25 for it. It was my first wart in at least four decades.

Used to get them all the time as a kid. I grew up in swampy area and had many water-loving reptiles as in interesting things to capture, examine and keep awhile. Then I didn’t mind warts, or getting all mucky, climbing some moss-slime covered tree.

But it is wrong for the reasons the stalwart and four-square Rick Santorum pointed out, to compel a vaccine in what is not a emergency or extremely urgent public health situation, even if that compulsion allows a possible (albeit a not-so-easy procedural hurdle) opt-out. And it is MOST wrong, from the stand point of liberty and of rule of law in a representative democratic republic, for any magistrate, executive, minister or president to give such a ORDER, as if he is a regent.

Such an demand upon the public is properly had via the legislature in ordinary circumstances, or via a full regulation creation process that includes public hearings, testimony and counter-testimony, and then ruling by some expert committee or citizen jury.

For such a decision to be reached by one man and so ordered is NOT democracy. It is dictatorship. It is proper for the President of the US to make such an order to the general public only in the most chaotic and extreme of emergencies. In his role as Commander in Chief the President can order the military to get vaccinated, but it stops within that group.

2,173 posted on 09/13/2011 9:31:08 AM PDT by bvw
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To: Sola Veritas

I understand the concerns about Romney. He is not my candidate; Sara Palin is until the nominee is chosen. However, if Romney survives and somehow becomes the nominee, then he has my full and complete support. The reason I state this is based on the Supreme Court. No matter what Romney might do elsewhere regarding domestic/foreign policy, I do not believe he will destroy our Republic by appointing another marxist/socialist to the court.

So my argument regarding these early debates comes down to the Supreme Court. My urging of less attacks on each other and more focused attacks on the economy, foreign policy, and the socialist inept leader we are saddled with in Obama, should be the aim due to what we will lose with another 4 years of marxist governing. I believe with all my heart that the Supreme Court is the most precious, most critical possession our Republic has for survival. Look at the ages and health of its justices. Should make us all shudder. I fear that another 4 years of Obama will see the court lost and along with it our Republic as we know it.

2,174 posted on 09/13/2011 9:31:50 AM PDT by navymom1
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To: jwalsh07

The point is to do a risk/reward assessment. Putting kids in a lifevest to swim has a low risk/cost/reward assessment. Reward: They probably won’t drown. Risks: They might get complacent. Costs: it’s not fun to swim with a vest, you can’t swim underwater, kids will make fun of you, you have to buy a vest, you have to remember to bring it all the time.

So no, given the small risk of drowning, I wouldn’t do a vest. I WOULD however watch my kids while they are swimming, because that will ALSO prevent almost all drownings, and I’m there anyway, and even with a vest I would be there. Cost is really nothing, risk is I might fall asleep, reward is I keep them from drowning. I also go to pools with lifeguards, for the same reason.

A vaccine is a one-time thing that then protects you for your life, or maybe a two or three-time thing with boosters. Each time there is a very small risk. But if we vaccinated EVERY girl, the number that would be saved from death alone each year would far outweigh the number who would die from the vaccination.

HOWEVER, the risk of HPV isn’t the same for every girl. Those who are certain to remain sexually inactive aren’t at risk, so nuns and the celebate can skip. If you are pretty sure you trust your spouse, your risk is probably low as well. Of course, my risks of getting polio were pretty low.

What you seem to be arguing is that there is some inordinate COST associated with giving girls a Gardisil vaccination that outweighs the benefits of saving a few lives. I think you are wrong, but I’m not a medical doctor so I’m depending on medical advice from “experts” that I can’t easily verify.

You are also ignoring the other problems associated with HPV that would be prevented with the vaccine, including the people who get cervical cancer but don’t die from it — even if I knew I wasn’t going to die, if I had a choice between going through cancer treatment, or getting a vaccine, I would choose the vaccine.

South Park did an excellent show which made fun of how stupid people are when it comes to risk assessment and understanding. The parents ended up sending their kids out of town into the wilderness, because they learned that kids were most likely to be abused at home by someone in their family.

Your suggestion to lock kids in the basement to avoid the minor risk of skin cancer reminded me of that show. Especially since you can also protect your kids by putting sunblock on them when they go out, if you are really paranoid.

If there was a vaccine for skin cancer, we’d take it.

Lest I forget, what I said about life vests was that I make my kids where life vests when we go on a boat. The Boy Scouts require it — my son just did a 10-day wildnerness Alaska raft adventure, and everybody including the guides wore life vests. It was a mandate without an opt-out.

2,175 posted on 09/13/2011 9:40:49 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: jerseyrocks

>> “As a result of that pharmaceutical witchcraft tens of thousands of lives have been saved through treatments” <<

That is the second ugliest lie ever told (the first being that lie told to Eve by satan).

Pharmaceutical drugs have cost millions of lives. They may well be the leading cause of death in the western world.

Bodies heal naturally, when fed naturally. Bodies die when fed poisons.

Cancer treatment leads inexorably to death, well before any cancer could do the job.

And yes, you do need lots of education. Try your keyboard skills: (the gathered wisdom and research of hundreds of courageous healers) (natural health articles directory - Dr. Mercola) (Bob Davis)

2,176 posted on 09/13/2011 9:44:58 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Sarah Palin - 2012 !)
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To: jersey117

I really love and respect Michelle but I sense she may be over her head.Funny you should mention this. It just came up on Rush’s show right now where he said its impossible not to try and vet candidates.

2,177 posted on 09/13/2011 9:49:53 AM PDT by rodguy911 (FreeRepublic:Land of the Free because of the Brave--Sarah Palin 2012)
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To: jwalsh07
Here is what you said:

Jwalsh07: There was no "opt out", there was a form to submit requesting status as a conscientious objector with the government being the judge of that.

HERE, in contrast, is what the executive order says:

Parents’ Rights.The Department of State Health Services will, in order to protect the right of parents to be the final authority on their children’s health care, modify the current process in order to allow parents to submit a request for a conscientious objection affidavit form via the Internet while maintaining privacy safeguards under current law.

There is nothing in that EO saying that the government would be the "judge of that." It says that the Parents are the FINAL AUTHORITY, not the government. That is what was false in what you said.

Perry had requested as part of his program that they implement an online opt-out form, as you can see above. I don't think they ever implemented it, as you know the Texas legislature passed a law in objection to the EO, and Perry rescinded the EO, so it could be they never adopted an online form.

Here is the rules for opt-out in Texas. You will note that there is NO MENTION of a state review being necessary. You only need to SUBMIT THE REQUEST, and you are opted out. So again, your claim that the government gets to judge your submission is false:

(d) No immunization may be required for admission to a facility regulated under this chapter if a person applying for a child's admission submits one of the following affidavits:
(1) an affidavit signed by a licensed physician stating that the immunization poses a significant risk to the health and well-being of the child or a member of the child's family or household; or
(2) an affidavit signed by the child's parent or guardian stating that the applicant declines immunization for reasons of conscience, including a religious belief.
(d-1) An affidavit submitted under Section (d)(2) must be on a form described by Section 161.0041, Health and Safety Code, and must be submitted not later than the 90th day after the date the affidavit is notarized.

Here is the online form you can use to request the official opt-out form. You fill this out, they send a form to your house, you fill it out, sign it in front of a notary, mail it in, and you are DONE. Opted out. Obviously, and online opt-out form would have been easier, but this isn't a hard process:

Affidavit Request for Exemption from Immunizations for Reasons of Conscience.

Here is the Texas state web page for immunization exemptions. As you will see if you read it, the process does NOT include any government review of the submissions.

School & Child-Care Facility Requirements

I hope that i have provided you with sufficient information to prove to you that your claim that the state would "judge" the submission was false. There is no evidence in the EO, the state law, or the official exemption web site to support your claim, and in fact they all state the opposite of what you claimed.

2,178 posted on 09/13/2011 10:02:28 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT

>> “That certainly isn’t a generally accepted opinion.” <<

It is the generally accepted opinion of the vast majority of those that have prodigeously studied the subject.

>> “You can get skin cancer by being in the sun too long, no matter what you eat” <<

Try to find any research that supports that conclusion objectively.

The opposite is true; those that work in the sun rarely get melanomas, while those that work indoors have a high incidence of it. The key is real vitamin D. Those that work indoors can significantly reduce their risk by taking serum vitamin D3.

>> “Smoking will give you throat and lung cancer...” <<

Drinking hard liquor will give you throat cancer much more quickly, and taking antacids frequently, which alkalizes beneficial stomach acid, can increase your risk of lung cancer far more than smoking will. (the undigested rotting food in your intestines increases anaerobic bacteria, which are carried to your lungs by your blood, for disposal - yep, bad breath)

Yes, honest, objective science is definitely in agreement that natural diet is the only way to prevent or reduce the risk of cancers.

See the links in

2,179 posted on 09/13/2011 10:06:53 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Sarah Palin - 2012 !)
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To: rbmillerjr

>> “When did she do that.... she endorsed Gov Perry.” <<

Only in the 2010 state election and that was reluctantly.

2,180 posted on 09/13/2011 10:09:01 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Sarah Palin - 2012 !)
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