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Now, somebody tell me Herman Cain can't win! (Vanity)
September 25, 2011 | no dems

Posted on 09/25/2011 6:34:42 AM PDT by no dems

I so tire of people saying: "Well, I like Herman Cain, but, he can't win." Well, I think the Florida Presidential Poll yesterday said differently. Cain received more votes than Perry-winkle and Rino Romney put together:

Cain: 37%

Perry: 15%

Romney:14%

And Perry worked his butt off and spent a lot of money. The Floridians ate the dummy's free breakfast, endured his perfunctory speech and then went and voted for someone who actually has some ideas and can put a sentence together and explain his ideas. I think it's time for Herman Cain to be taken seriously.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Politics/Elections; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: cain; cain2012; chat; vanity
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To: AmericanInTokyo

I agree with you AIT, and pray fervently you are correct...however, I do have a question....do we still have open primaries in key states where the results can be tinkered with by the crossover dems? I’m very concerned about that.


51 posted on 09/25/2011 7:43:51 AM PDT by TEXOKIE (Anarchy IS the strategy of the forces of darkness!)
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To: no dems

He’d win straight up against Obama.


52 posted on 09/25/2011 7:44:40 AM PDT by glorgau
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To: THX 1138
I'd like to know exactly what his role was at the KC Fed.

All you have to do is take a minute and look up the structure of the Federal Reserve Banks. Unfortunately, some have made the issue so blanket that anything with the word Fed is damned. The regional banks, like Cain was President of, have nothing to do with monetary policy, currency valuation, or any of that Jekyll Island stuff. That is the Board of Governors in DC. The regional Federal Reserve banks serve a legitimate and legal function. Their role is to help banks clear checks, help banks move currency between themselves, and ensure banks meet compliance standards. The regional banks are an important part of our system and have nothing to do with the things we damn the 'Fed' for.
It is almost akin to saying if he was CEO of FedEx he should account for it because "Fed" is in the name or he should account for mob ties because he was CEO of "Godfather's" Pizza.

53 posted on 09/25/2011 7:59:23 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: McGruff
“Look I like Herman Cain but he only has experience in the business/financial area. A president needs to be more diverse than that. Foreign policy, dealing with congress.. Now if he became someones VP he would be a great adviser and truly qualified to be president would be ready after her term was up.”
_____________________________________________________

That's why the president has a cabinet and advisors. Ever hear of the Sec. of State, or the NSA?

Sorry, but we've seen where this conventional wisdom that the candidate "must have this experieince...yada...yada" has gotten us.

54 posted on 09/25/2011 8:02:59 AM PDT by Artcore
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To: C. Edmund Wright

Will he win? Who knows, but I think this proves at least that it’s possible. This puts to rest the worn out thinking of the 80’s and 90’s about who can, and who cannot, possibly win.


Eisenhower didn’t have any political experience either.


55 posted on 09/25/2011 8:07:19 AM PDT by New Jersey Realist (Congress doesn't care a damn about "we the people")
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To: Artcore

A good executive like Herman Cain will hire the right people to help him. I’m so excited for this race!


56 posted on 09/25/2011 8:10:27 AM PDT by GatorGirl (Herman Cain 2012)
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To: Scanian
Herman got 900+ votes from GOP ACTIVISTS. The 2700 participants were dominated by people who are very conservative, which is wonderful in and of itself but not exactly typical of either the entire GOP or the electorate .....

Thank you for getting back to the reality of what a "Straw Poll" is: A popularity contest, among a small sampling of political junkies, many of whom share a common agenda.

A Straw Poll is a "Self-Selection Bias" poll with as little validity as an Internet poll that attracts the hard-core, agenda-driven, political junkies while ignoring the vast majority of regular voters whose opinion actually elects Presidents.

Case in point: Who won the third debate, according to the "Self-Selection Bias" FOX News Internet poll by a very wide margin?

HINT: Who is followed around by a small but very vocal army of hard-core True Believers? (No, not her. She did not debate.)

You guessed it: The BIG winner of the last debate was, supposedly, Ron Paul. (See below)

That is not to say that Cain does not have merit as a viable candidate. That is just saying that, until the first rigorously conducted polls come out after this last debate, it is silly to hang your hat on the results of a Self-Selection Bias poll.


57 posted on 09/25/2011 8:14:46 AM PDT by Polybius (Defeating Obama is Priority Number One)
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To: Prov3456

amen tio that! This reminds me of the BS of the MSM dictating our candidates in 2008. Freepers in 2008 were saying, “I’d vote for Fred, but he can’t win...” which is the same thing I see Freepers doing in this very thread. They need to wake up and see it is MSM manipulation.


58 posted on 09/25/2011 8:20:36 AM PDT by Blue Highway
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To: GatorGirl

I would trust a guy like Herman Casin who was a sucessful CEO, to run the country as a business. I’m sure he’s done his share of hiring and firing to get the right people in place. I’d love to see him clean house in Washington DC to get rid of the RINOs and establishment Republicans, tear down the lobbyist buddy networks of you scratch my back I’ll scratch yours BS.


59 posted on 09/25/2011 8:25:20 AM PDT by Blue Highway
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To: GatorGirl

I would trust a guy like Herman Cain who was a sucessful CEO, to run the country as a business. I’m sure he’s done his share of hiring and firing to get the right people in place. I’d love to see him clean house in Washington DC to get rid of the RINOs and establishment Republicans, tear down the lobbyist buddy networks of you scratch my back I’ll scratch yours BS.


60 posted on 09/25/2011 8:25:28 AM PDT by Blue Highway
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To: GatorGirl

Exactly!

Look, my first pick (although she hasn’t announced yet) is Palin. That being said, I would have NO problem voting for Cain. I could give a rats arse if he doesn’t understand every last forein relations problem around the world. As you say, as an executive who has had to delegate, he’d hire a terrific staff to help him manage these issues.

This elitiest, conventional wisdom mentality is part of the reason we’re in the mess we are today. As an aside, maybe this will begin to merit him more questions in the debates. I’m beyond sick of almost all of the moderators questions going to Mittens and Perry. Good grief, Perry is a snoozer!


61 posted on 09/25/2011 8:26:27 AM PDT by Artcore
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To: no dems
I admire Mr. Cain; but, I would not wager money on his chances of winning.
62 posted on 09/25/2011 8:27:57 AM PDT by verity (The Obama Administration is a Criminal Enterprise.)
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To: McGruff

True, but don’t forget he was Chairman of the Board of Directors of the Kansas City Fed. The Fed isn’t a govt entity, but I think it’s safe to say in these times that it’s a quasi-govt due to the heavy intertwining of fiscal/monetary policy in the U.S.

I think that’s given him a far better understanding of govt than most people realize, because the Fed has to take into account current govt fiscal policy and it’s effect on the economy in making their decisions.


63 posted on 09/25/2011 8:31:11 AM PDT by Free Vulcan (Vote Republican! You can vote Democrat when you're dead.)
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To: Artcore; McGruff
Sorry, but we've seen where this conventional wisdom that the candidate "must have this experieince...yada...yada" has gotten us.

It has gotten us the fiasco of the Obama Presidency when that "conventional wisdom" was ignored.

The American voters were reckless enough to ignore that "conventional wisdom" once but the American voters, especially in these very troubling times and after the Obama's first term, are not about to be that reckless two Presidential elections in a row. At least Obama will now be able to claim four years of experience instead of ZERO experience.

If Cain is on the ticket, he would have to be in the VP slot so that, at least, it could be claimed that, if elected, he would getting OJT as the second string quaterback in the first elected office he has ever won in his life.

64 posted on 09/25/2011 8:31:32 AM PDT by Polybius (Defeating Obama is Priority Number One)
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To: no dems

The commentary I heard was that Cain’s win was more of a “none of the above” vote. I like Herman, but America has had enough of Presidents without the right experience. Though Cain has “executive” experience, he has no practical experience in politics (he has never won an election, nor had to draft, support or vote on legislation), and that alone makes him a non-starter.


65 posted on 09/25/2011 8:31:51 AM PDT by RainMan
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To: no dems

It’s going to take a lot more to convince the punt-on-second-down crowd.


66 posted on 09/25/2011 8:32:50 AM PDT by william clark (Ecclesiastes 10:2)
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To: McGruff

Make no mistake, Herman Cain’s leadership at The National Restaurant Association (the largest industry assn in the US employing millions) is the business equivalent of Congress. You do not get to “call the shots” in that setting and you work to ensure your “constituents” are satisfied.

Read this and tell me Herman Cain can’t handle foreign policy! I haven’t heard anyone running have this kind of insight:
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/09/20/herman-cain-if-mess-with-israel-youre-messing-with-usa/

Col. Michael Steele (USA-Ret) Endorses Herman Cain for President last week.

From his website:
Herman Cain’s stance on National Security (Foreign Policy)
The primary duty of the President of the United States is to protect our people. In fact, it is the principal duty of a limited federal government. They must ensure that our military and all of our security agencies are strong and capable.

Unfortunately, national security has become far too politicized with our elected officials using the issue as a means to polarize our country as the “war hawks” and the “peace doves.” In response, the safety and morale of our brave men and women in uniform are often at risk for political gain. The judgment of our military experts on the ground is often underutilized in exchange for political purposes. National security isn’t about politics. It’s about defending America.

While diplomacy is a critical tool in solving the complex security issues we face, it must never compromise military might. Because we are such a free and prosperous people, we are the envy of the world. Many regimes seek to destroy us because they are threatened by our ideals, and they resent our prosperity. We must acknowledge the real and present danger that terrorist nations and organizations pose to our country’s future.

Further, we must stand by our friends and we must not be fooled by our enemies. We should never be deceived by terrorists. They only have one objective, namely, to kill all of us. We must always remain vigilant in dealing with adversaries.

We must support our military with the best training, equipment, technology and infrastructure necessary to keep them in a position to win. We must also provide our men and women in uniform, our veterans and their families with the benefits they deserve for their tremendous sacrifice. These heroes have served us. We must never forget to serve them.


67 posted on 09/25/2011 8:41:14 AM PDT by justsaynomore (Herman Cain 2012 - http://www.arealleader.com)
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To: New Jersey Realist
Eisenhower didn’t have any political experience either.

Eisenhower had no combat experience during World War I and had no combat experience during World War II.

As the Supreme Allied Commander of a multi-national military alliance, Eisenhower did not do "Combat". Eisenhower did "Politics".

His entire military carreer was "Politics".

68 posted on 09/25/2011 8:47:25 AM PDT by Polybius (Defeating Obama is Priority Number One)
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To: RainMan

>>> Though Cain has “executive” experience, he has no practical experience in politics (he has never won an election, nor had to draft, support or vote on legislation), and that alone makes him a non-starter. >>>

I respectfully think you have it backwards. Political experience - every minute of it - takes you one minute further away from the reality of the entirety of the rest of America. We need as many politicians with zero political experience as we can get.

Having politicians with political experience is like having referee’s play the actual football game. Or something like that....


69 posted on 09/25/2011 8:48:24 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
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To: ez
"...but he needs to drop his national sales tax proposal. Imagine what the Dems will do with it once they regain power!"

THEN, you lay out an idea for a 15% flat tax....

Well, just imagine the fun the Dems would have with that!

70 posted on 09/25/2011 8:49:53 AM PDT by diogenes ghost
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To: Polybius

And Cain’s experience with the National Restaurant Association was also a training ground for small p politics - not to mention working inside the corporate culture of several major corporations like Coca Cola and Pillsbury Corp.


71 posted on 09/25/2011 8:50:18 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
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To: Polybius

>>> It has gotten us the fiasco of the Obama Presidency when that “conventional wisdom” was ignored. >>>

Now c’mon — it’s not Obama’s lack of political experience that is the problem, it’s his wealth of socialist views that is the problem. His lack of experience has zip, zero, nada to do with the problems we face.

In fact, his legislative successes are what is killing us. If he had more experience and had been “more successful” then America would be even worse off than we are now.

False analogy.


72 posted on 09/25/2011 8:53:03 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
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To: diogenes ghost

Touche’


73 posted on 09/25/2011 8:53:09 AM PDT by ez ("Abashed the Devil stood and felt how awful goodness is." - Milton, "Paradise Lost")
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To: Polybius
“It has gotten us the fiasco of the Obama Presidency when that “conventional wisdom” was ignored.”
_____________________________________________________

Nice try, but it's also kept establishment types like Boehner, McConnell, and Cantor in positions of power allowing Obama to pass laws without a fight! Seems you forgot the bill that the Boehner led House sent to the president (with the assistance of Mitch McConnell in the Senate) that effectively lowered our credit rating from AAA to AA+, giving the president over 1 trillion dollars, with NO reduction in spending. Its this conventional wisdom that the GOP establishment adheres to that says; "compromise at any cost..." that has us in the sorry arse state we are today as a nation and a party. Sorry, if you were correct in your assertions, the Tea Party would've never been born.

Lets also not forget, Obama is a socialist and had a known past of hanging out with domestic terrorists and radicals. Cain is a hard working American who has contributed in great ways to this country.

Sorry, but you make one lame, weak-a$$ argument.

74 posted on 09/25/2011 8:59:10 AM PDT by Artcore
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To: no dems

The voters understand the basic concept that the Presidency is not an entry-level job.


75 posted on 09/25/2011 9:27:59 AM PDT by Cyber Liberty (I like both Perry and Palin, and will vote for whichever of them wins.)
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To: Cyber Liberty

>>> The voters understand the basic concept that the Presidency is not an entry-level job. >>>

Real Americans understand that Cain’s many experiences make him anything but “entry level” -


76 posted on 09/25/2011 9:36:50 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
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To: TEXOKIE

>>> Like Herman Cain/John Bolton? I could go for a ticket like that! >>>

And you know who dreads that ticket the most?

Joe Biden ( can you imagine that gaffe machine debating Bolton on foreign policy?)


77 posted on 09/25/2011 9:40:15 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
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To: C. Edmund Wright

What public office has he held? Until you can point to one, he’s nothing more than another loud-mouthed Alan Keyes or Pat Buchanan (or even Steve Forbes). Sorry. President is not the place to get your first public office. Damn me all to heck if you must, I don’t care. One completely inexperienced tool in that office is enough for me.


78 posted on 09/25/2011 9:41:26 AM PDT by Cyber Liberty (I like both Perry and Palin, and will vote for whichever of them wins.)
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To: C. Edmund Wright; Boardwalk

What fascinates me is the number of people who jump ship each time something happens one way or another in the hopes of being known as supporting the winner.

What if Cain says something unpopular? Will there be a sudden rush to whoever is saying what the people want to hear?

And that is really what is going on, the candidate that tells the GOPers what they want to hear, not necessarily what needs to be said, will lead the way.

Bachman had some great ideas but jumped the shark and revealed severe character flaws by spreading gossip and rumors.

Romney is afraid to be controversial, seeking populist sound bytes.

Perry come across clumsy but proves wrong those who claim he lacks sincerity and only says things for momentary popularity. His persistence in unpopular ideas has cost him but seems to me that he has the ability to stand by convictions even when easier not to.

I love Newt’s intellect and understanding of history. I still have trouble visualizing his as President.


79 posted on 09/25/2011 9:45:34 AM PDT by Eagle Eye (Proud to be a RINO.)
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To: digger48

Well said.

How important are 960 votes anyway?

There is really only one poll that counts.


80 posted on 09/25/2011 9:47:24 AM PDT by Eagle Eye (Proud to be a RINO.)
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To: Cyber Liberty

The idea that holding pubic office is the only way to gain valuable experience for public office is simply narrow close minded thinking and it is also parrotting elitist talking points.

And if you think that the problem with Obama is that he is an “inexperienced fool” - then you are not paying attention to what it is about Obama that is killing the country.

Aint’ gotta damned thing to do with his inexperience. It’s got to do with his damned successful implementation of socialist policies.

And to lump the entire life experiences of Keyes and Forbes and Buchanan and Cain together is to really be a “stuck inside the box” insult to the incredible and varied experiences of all four men - and none more than Cain, who has a more amazing and well rounded life than even the other three.

Or, we can keep electing experienced politicians, because, well, how’s that workin out for ya?

Oh, and while I’m at it, we saw things happen in 2009 and 2010 that broke all the old rules. 2012 will to. So cling to the “old rules” at your peril.


81 posted on 09/25/2011 9:48:11 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
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To: Eagle Eye

>>> What fascinates me is the number of people who jump ship each time something happens one way or another in the hopes of being known as supporting the winner.
What if Cain says something unpopular? Will there be a sudden rush to whoever is saying what the people want to hear?>>

I get your frustration: I think people jump ship because they have a hard time discerning between compromise on principle - and unrealistic purity. There is also the oppression of the immediate — you know, like since Obama got Usama it’s all over for 2012 already....etc. Thus everything is magnified and a lot of it all but forgotten weeks later.

Cain will certainly say some unpopular things (again) and we’ll see how he does as a top tier for the first time — which may or may not work out well. Right now he’s benefitted from the fact that every other candidate likes him and none of them thought he was a threat so no one challenged him.

He is a threat now, and we’ll see how this all unfolds. I have no idea how it will either....


82 posted on 09/25/2011 9:54:34 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
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To: Polybius

I appreciate your commitment to objectivity.

To me, all these polls and straw polls seem like a way for the cable channels to fill time during a notoriously slow news time. They are less than useless to realists.


83 posted on 09/25/2011 10:00:25 AM PDT by Scanian
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To: CSI007

Maybe such a person WOULD say that but I belong to NO party (although I’ve worked for candidates from both over the past 51 years and have become completely disillusioned by the “establishment” types of both sides.)


84 posted on 09/25/2011 10:03:21 AM PDT by Scanian
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To: AmericanInTokyo

Oh, he COULD whup up on Obozo who acts lke his pants just fell down when he has to speak without a teleprompter.

But Biden is gaffe-prone and I think that it is far more realistic to view Herman as a potential VP candidate.

Maybe time and polls will prove me wrong. And I wouldn’t feel bad if they did.


85 posted on 09/25/2011 10:06:50 AM PDT by Scanian
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To: C. Edmund Wright

Whatever. Throw your vote away on Pat Paulson, why should I care. I merely stated my opinion on the subject, and you are quite free to reject it without insulting me.

If I need an experienced semiconductor scientist, I won’t be looking to an MBA school for candidates. Government is not a business, nor should it be.

Bye.


86 posted on 09/25/2011 10:07:35 AM PDT by Cyber Liberty (I like both Perry and Palin, and will vote for whichever of them wins.)
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To: Scanian

I agree with half, maybe two/thirds of what you say about the straw polls. They are news filler and they can be criticized fairly as extremely small samples.

Now for the slight nuanced disagreement:
I submit a couple of things make them more significant that useless: For instance, the Florida Straw poll was a correct predictor of every single GOP nominee starting with Reagan’s first successful run. And then there’s the idea that simply because the news channels do hype them, they grow into something more significant than perhaps they should be.

One week, or six weeks from now, the Florida poll might be doing Cain no more good than the Iowa straw poll did Bachmann. OR, it might a game changer.


87 posted on 09/25/2011 10:08:20 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
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To: C. Edmund Wright

My team’s quarterback just threw and interception after getting sacked.

I guess I need to find another team to be loyal to.

/s


88 posted on 09/25/2011 10:08:33 AM PDT by Eagle Eye (Proud to be a RINO.)
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To: Cyber Liberty

You have a slavish devotion to conventional wisdom and with due respect, your analogy is so incomplete as to be flawed.

I have extreme radar for conventional wisdom and analogy flaws.....


89 posted on 09/25/2011 10:11:26 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
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To: Eagle Eye

It’s funny you picked the quarterback analogy. It’s sort of understood in football that if a team is struggling, the most popular player on the team is always the second string quarterback.

In hockey, the same for second string goalies.

I think we are seeing a lot of that playing out in this nomination process. Romney was the first stringer, but no one really thought he could lead the team - so we’ve seen Bachmann surge and then she fell off a cliff. Perry really surged and now it remains to be seen how far he falls, but he is falling.

So now Cain will surge it appears. The intense light of being considered top tier is revealing and full of pressure.


90 posted on 09/25/2011 10:16:05 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
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To: C. Edmund Wright
I guess I was wrong after all. You can't disagree with me without insulting me.
91 posted on 09/25/2011 10:19:58 AM PDT by Cyber Liberty (I like both Perry and Palin, and will vote for whichever of them wins.)
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To: Cyber Liberty

With all due respect, I humbly submit that you are perhaps the least bit enamored with the widely held conventional wisdom - and as such - you perhaps have not noticed the wide spread beat down that conventional wisdom has taken in our political landscape since 2008.

And with reference to your hiring analogy, while somewhat valid, it is my humble opinion that it is perhaps the tiniest bit incomplete and that as such, it might fall just a smidgeon short of being applicable to the given situation.


92 posted on 09/25/2011 10:24:02 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
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To: C. Edmund Wright

That is the most un-insulting thing I’ve heard all day...I think.

:)

If I need an experienced pipefitter, I find someone experienced at fitting pipe, that’s all I’m saying. If you want to rubbish that by labeling it “conventional wisdom,” then go ahead. That’s your right. I just don’t see how you are going to convince tens of millions of voters to hire a grocery store check-out clerk (I am not calling Herman Cain that, I am just presenting a hypothetical) for the position of pipefitter on a hotel construction site. Even if the previous pipefitter I’m replacing is the biggest screw-up this side of the Mississippi.

The rap on “conventional wisdom” is not that it’s always wrong, it’s that it’s not always (or even often) correct. If you know a person who is a congenital liar, you can’t simply disbelieve everything he says because sometimes he’ll tell you the truth just to mess you up. You have to do your own research. (And I’m NOT calling anybody here a liar. I’m just drawing another ridiculous analogy.)

My personal opinion about Herman Cain, and it’s just that, MHO (everybody has one, along with one of something else), I don’t think he can win because he’s never held a public office. Should he? Maybe, I’m open to that. But he has never been a peer of the pack of kittens he intends to herd. As a person who has worked all his life at a career, I think that’s a fatal flaw for a candidate.


93 posted on 09/25/2011 10:54:37 AM PDT by Cyber Liberty (I like both Perry and Palin, and will vote for whichever of them wins.)
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To: Eagle Eye

I was giving Perry the benefit of the doubt yet once he came out and called me heartless that was the last straw. I loathe Mittens, and the rest of the pack can’t win, with the exception of Cain who has impressed me. I am going with a true conservative this time and the media will not pick my candidate this time!


94 posted on 09/25/2011 11:01:51 AM PDT by Boardwalk
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To: Cyber Liberty

Well The Won held a public office and what did that get us, lots of corruption and the Chicago way. No thanks.


95 posted on 09/25/2011 11:03:23 AM PDT by Boardwalk
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To: mnehring; Servant of the Cross
Fair enough. And I'm well aware of all the points that you make.

I guess my main point, the one I've been making for a while, is this: I want someone besides RuPaul (who I don't take seriously at all) to make a statement concerning the Fed.

Can you imagine the firestorm of support that Cain would engender if he put it to Perry and Romney, something like, "What do you guys say about this? Do you even understand it? I do..."

Look, I want to like Cain. At this point I'm revolted by Perry and Romney, horrified at the thought of Christie, mystified by Palin, disappointed in Bachman. Cain could leave Perry and Romney speechless, and really solidify his position with a bold move.

But it always makes me wonder, is this something you just don't talk about or, somehow, someway, you're finished in this kind of game?

If that's the case, then maybe we're all fools and none of it matters...

OT, somebody at The American Thinker said it best: RuPaul is so right about so many things, but when it comes to defense and foreign policy, its like somebody slipped him a dose of acid. Weird...

96 posted on 09/25/2011 11:04:45 AM PDT by THX 1138 ("Harry, I have a gift.")
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To: Boardwalk

Boo hoo...he called you heartless...and I mock you, so you gonna quit FR now, too?

Put your Big Boy or Big Girl pants on.


97 posted on 09/25/2011 11:06:31 AM PDT by Eagle Eye (Proud to be a RINO.)
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To: Eagle Eye

I have on my girlie panties and they say NO RINOS!


98 posted on 09/25/2011 11:08:54 AM PDT by Boardwalk
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To: no dems

Not sure why folks are dismissing the staw poll.
By itself it may not be that big of a deal.
however, if it gives Mr Cain some attention and more people tune in to see what this guy Cain is all about.. then its all good.
Cain is making the rounds and that is good,too. You have to take advantage of any opportunity.


99 posted on 09/25/2011 11:17:32 AM PDT by Leep
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To: Eagle Eye

Boo hoo...he called you heartless...and I mock you, so you gonna quit FR now, too?

Put your Big Boy or Big Girl pants on.


OK, that was kind of weird.


100 posted on 09/25/2011 11:20:37 AM PDT by Leep
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