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Do medical marijuana users have right to bear arms? No, says ATF
MSNBC ^ | 09/29/2011 | Matt Volz

Posted on 09/29/2011 9:35:55 AM PDT by LonelyCon

Firearms dealers in states that allow medical marijuana can't sell guns or ammunition to registered users of the drug, a policy that marijuana and gun-rights groups say denies Second Amendment rights to individuals who are following state law.

Federal law already makes it illegal for someone to possess a gun if he or she is "an unlawful user of, or addicted to" marijuana or other controlled substances.

A Sept. 21 letter from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, issued in response to numerous inquiries from gun dealers, clarifies that medical marijuana patients are included in that definition. "There are no exceptions in federal law for marijuana purportedly used for medicinal purposes, even if such use is sanctioned by state law," said the letter by Arthur Herbert, the ATF's assistant director for enforcement programs and services.

Federal firearm licensees, or FFLs, can't sell a gun to someone who answers "yes" when a required form asks whether the buyer is a controlled substance user.

Last week's letter also says that licensed dealers can't sell a gun or ammunition if they have "reasonable cause to believe" the buyer is using a controlled substance.

That includes if the buyer presents a medical marijuana card as identification, or if the buyer talks about drug use, having a medical marijuana card or a recent drug conviction, ATF spokesman Drew Wade said Wednesday.

(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: atf; banglist; batfe; batfeisajoke; ffls; govtabuse; guns; marijuana; secondamendment; tyranny
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If medical marijuana is grown, sold, and used in one state, it has nothing to do with interstate commerce, and the Feds. don't have the Constitutional authority to regulate it. Now they're trying to deny Second-Amendment rights to those whose states allow them to posses and use marijuana. Any excuse to grab the guns of law-abiding Americans.
1 posted on 09/29/2011 9:36:00 AM PDT by LonelyCon
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To: LonelyCon
Federal firearm licensees, or FFLs, can't sell a gun to someone who answers "yes" when a required form asks whether the buyer is a controlled substance user.

But FFLs can sell guns, preferable in bulk and of an "assault" nature, to someone who answers "yes" when a required form asks whether the buyer is strawman for a Mexican drug cartel.

2 posted on 09/29/2011 9:39:44 AM PDT by DTogo (High time to bring back the Sons of Liberty !!)
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To: LonelyCon

ATF cant seem to get anything right...close em down.


3 posted on 09/29/2011 9:40:12 AM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: LonelyCon

But if you want to buy guns to smuggle them over the border..

Well that’s OK then cuz the BATF will just look the other way.


4 posted on 09/29/2011 9:40:41 AM PDT by Free Vulcan (Vote Republican! You can vote Democrat when you're dead.)
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To: LonelyCon

The issue here is, to me, anyway, is allowing ATF or any other agency so much discretionary power.


5 posted on 09/29/2011 9:41:49 AM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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What about bear feet?


6 posted on 09/29/2011 9:42:36 AM PDT by Gene Eric (Your Hope has been Redistributed. Here's your damn Change!)
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To: LonelyCon; bamahead
The government will use ANY excuse to try and deny Second Amendment rights to people, and the fact that they over step to Commerce clause doesn't mean a damn thing to them!

I think this may call for a Libertarian Ping!

7 posted on 09/29/2011 9:42:36 AM PDT by KC_Lion (If Sarah can't be elected in 2012, then Phase II will fall into place, may G-D have mercy on us all)
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To: LonelyCon

Given the vast majority of medical marijuana users are also liberals, I expect this will be changed quickly.


8 posted on 09/29/2011 9:42:57 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi (Cain for President - Because I Like The Content of His Character!)
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To: LonelyCon
re: the atf.. this is fast and furious, but too good not to share and didn't want to start a thread..
9 posted on 09/29/2011 9:43:01 AM PDT by rokkitapps ( Hearings on healthcare waivers NOW! (If you agree make this your tagline))
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

If it were up to your average ATF bureaucrat,
no one (except government agents) would have the right to bear arms.


10 posted on 09/29/2011 9:43:25 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: LonelyCon
Druggies will beg borrow and steal to try and put their drug usage in a debate. Sorry Illegal is illegal.
11 posted on 09/29/2011 9:43:44 AM PDT by org.whodat (Just another heartless American, hated by Perry and his fellow democrats.)
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To: Erik Latranyi

Where is your source for that claim?


12 posted on 09/29/2011 9:44:44 AM PDT by svcw (Those who are easily shocked... should be shocked more often. - Mae West)
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To: LonelyCon

Technically, even prescription drugs are “controlled substances”. It sounds like they could adminstratively declare it also applies to anyone taking any kind of prescription medication if they want to.


13 posted on 09/29/2011 9:45:09 AM PDT by tacticalogic
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To: LonelyCon
Federal law already makes it illegal for someone to possess a gun if he or she is "an unlawful user of, or addicted to" marijuana or other controlled substances.

I'd sure like to see that statute.

How do they determine that without a conviction for the "unlawful" act?.

It takes a felony conviction to lose your right to possess a handgun here. Most states are a mere misdemeanor for usage or possession of pot, aren't they?

14 posted on 09/29/2011 9:45:09 AM PDT by digger48
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To: Kartographer

ping...kind of along the lines we were discussing


15 posted on 09/29/2011 9:46:35 AM PDT by wardaddy (,FURP....that was easy)
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To: LonelyCon

There is something I don’t quite understand? If a person is allowed to have medical marijuana then it isn’t illegal correct? It is a controlled substance no different than if one is prescribed Tylenol #3 for a toothache or a muscle relaxer for a back condition. So... will ATF deny anyone the right to bear arms if they had been/are currently on any controlled pharmaceutical drug?


16 posted on 09/29/2011 9:49:02 AM PDT by momtothree
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To: LonelyCon
It would be nice if the BATF were to follow the law first. You know, so they could set a good example for the rest of us.

5.56mm

17 posted on 09/29/2011 9:49:43 AM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: LonelyCon

Do people with codeine have a right to bear arms? What about oxi? Prescriptions are prescriptions, even if the fed doesn’t like some of them.


18 posted on 09/29/2011 9:51:00 AM PDT by discostu (How Will I Laugh Tomorrow When I Can't Even Smile Today)
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To: org.whodat

Stupid, lazy and cowardly American illegal drug users are so stupid, lazy and chicken that they won’t change their reality, so they use illegal drugs to try and hide from their reality for a few minutes and thereby fund some of the most vile and vicious criminals this world has ever know.


19 posted on 09/29/2011 9:52:13 AM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: svcw
Where is your source for that claim?

None, just my understanding of liberals.

If you were libertarian, you would support legalization.....not a backdoor legalization under the auspices of medical need.

Libertarians that support medical marijuana are not libertarians.

20 posted on 09/29/2011 9:55:29 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi (Cain for President - Because I Like The Content of His Character!)
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To: Erik Latranyi

Agreed.


21 posted on 09/29/2011 9:57:39 AM PDT by svcw (Those who are easily shocked... should be shocked more often. - Mae West)
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To: LonelyCon

I got a Question How many ATF officers smoke pot Cops ,Lawyers,Congressmen and or Congresswomen Firemen,EMS workers ?

How many of them take your life into their hands everyday with a gun or a needle ?

Think about it i bet every person ere knows someone who smokes pot and or has smoked it and don’t think one the less of them for it either because they are friends or because of their standing in the community if you don’t know anyone who smokes pot then you either live a very sheltered life or they hide it from you so you won’t think any lesser of them think about it hard because you know it’s true don’t lie to yourself anymore !


22 posted on 09/29/2011 9:58:12 AM PDT by ATOMIC_PUNK (Any man may make a mistake ; none but a fool will persist in it . { Latin proverb })
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To: tacticalogic

Maybe that’s why Obarf wants all of our medical records.


23 posted on 09/29/2011 9:58:12 AM PDT by hope
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To: org.whodat
Sorry Illegal is illegal.

Two words: States Rights

24 posted on 09/29/2011 10:02:48 AM PDT by cowboyway (Molon labe : Deo Vindice : "Rebellion is always an option!!"--Jim Robinson)
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To: hope
Maybe that’s why Obarf wants all of our medical records.

Could be.

From the article:

Federal law already makes it illegal for someone to possess a gun if he or she is "an unlawful user of, or addicted to" marijuana or other controlled substances.

Start with that, and then apply the same standard for what "addicted to" means that they use to determine what "interstate commerce" means, and see how it works out.

25 posted on 09/29/2011 10:03:41 AM PDT by tacticalogic
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To: cowboyway

One word, yawn.


26 posted on 09/29/2011 10:04:23 AM PDT by org.whodat (Just another heartless American, hated by Perry and his fellow democrats.)
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To: org.whodat

sarc
Brilliant retort!
/sarc


27 posted on 09/29/2011 10:07:51 AM PDT by cowboyway (Molon labe : Deo Vindice : "Rebellion is always an option!!"--Jim Robinson)
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To: LonelyCon

“Federal firearm licensees, or FFLs, can’t sell a gun to someone who answers “yes” when a required form asks whether the buyer is a controlled substance user.”

What is the penalty if you have Marijuana recommendation from a doctor and you answer “no” on the form. What is the chance that you would get caught?


28 posted on 09/29/2011 10:08:47 AM PDT by forgotten man (forgotten man)
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To: blueunicorn6
Stupid, lazy and cowardly American illegal drug users are so stupid, lazy and chicken that they won’t change their reality, so they use illegal drugs to try and hide from their reality for a few minutes and thereby fund some of the most vile and vicious criminals this world has ever know.

Medical marijuana is grown and distributed according to local laws, and none of the money from it goes to vile or vicious criminals. Same way alcohol stopped being a source of revenue for vile and vicious criminals when Prohibition ended.
29 posted on 09/29/2011 10:09:13 AM PDT by AnotherUnixGeek
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To: cowboyway

Flame bait.


30 posted on 09/29/2011 10:09:13 AM PDT by tacticalogic
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To: discostu

“Do people with codeine have a right to bear arms? What about oxi? Prescriptions are prescriptions, even if the fed doesn’t like some of them.”

State law here is that you can’t carry concealed or openly if you are in a state of intoxication, but just having the prescription doesn’t mean you have to turn your guns in.


31 posted on 09/29/2011 10:10:58 AM PDT by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: dsc

All sensible. And of course not what the ATF is hoping for at all.


32 posted on 09/29/2011 10:14:38 AM PDT by discostu (How Will I Laugh Tomorrow When I Can't Even Smile Today)
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To: LonelyCon

My sister has threatened to kill me.

She takes time-released morphine, and to keep the nausea down, smokes marijuana. Yes, she has a medical license to do so.

At age 55 she was awarded SSI due to a “Personality Disorder”. The holes of inactivity in her brain scans were caused by heavy drug use from the age of 13 on. Decades long studies in Switzerland and Sweden have shown that early teenage use of marijuana causes a 600% chance of an individual developing schizophrenia. She is severely afflicted with bipolar disorder and is borderline schiz. Because she is in constant pain without narcotics, the doctors have prescribed the drugs, and since she has no income, the taxpayer foots all the bills.

And you think a person like my sister should be allowed to have guns?


33 posted on 09/29/2011 10:14:50 AM PDT by SatinDoll (NO FOREIGN NATIONALS AS OUR PRESIDENT!)
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To: tacticalogic

Only if you’re a statist.


34 posted on 09/29/2011 10:15:02 AM PDT by cowboyway (Molon labe : Deo Vindice : "Rebellion is always an option!!"--Jim Robinson)
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To: LonelyCon

Enforce laws on the books.

If the law is unconstitutional challenge it in court.

If you just don’t like it, work to have it removed or superseded.

A large factor in the decline of America and the American culture is the fact we have gone from priding ourselves on being a nation of laws to the point we are now largely a nation of scofflaws.

There is little respect for laws, rules, conventions or traditions. The public sees the corruption, cheating and evasion from the top down throughout our society.

Individuals and organizations from the President and the federal government down to the student copping a joint behind the school believe they should not have to observe or comply with laws they do not like or agree with.

The president, bureaucrats, state governors and others in positions of governmental responsibility regularly and routinely violate their oaths of office and the public trust when they decide which laws they want to enforce and which laws they want to evade, violate or ignore.

Most now seem to subscribe to the Charley Rangel code of ethics: Don’t do as I do, do as I say.


35 posted on 09/29/2011 10:18:55 AM PDT by Iron Munro (A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone.)
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To: digger48; LonelyCon
"Federal law already makes it illegal for someone to possess a gun if he or she is "an unlawful user of, or addicted to" marijuana or other controlled substances."

I'd sure like to see that statute.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2009-title18/html/USCODE-2009-title18-partI-chap44.htm

"(d) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person—

"(3) is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section [8]02 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));"

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2010-title21/html/USCODE-2010-title21-chap13.htm

802 Definitions

"(6) The term “controlled substance” means a drug or other substance, or immediate precursor, included in schedule I, II, III, IV, or V of part B of this subchapter."

812. Schedules of controlled substances

Schedule I

(c) Unless specifically excepted or unless listed in another schedule, any material, compound, mixture, or preparation, which contains any quantity of the following hallucinogenic substances, or which contains any of their salts, isomers, and salts of isomers whenever the existence of such salts, isomers, and salts of isomers is possible within the specific chemical designation:

(10) Marihuana.

The Federal Government does not recognize "Medical Marijuana" as a legitimate medical treatment.

36 posted on 09/29/2011 10:21:17 AM PDT by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: cowboyway

My , great grandpa on my great grand mothers side, is buried at Gettysburg, he wore a gray uniform, what was your sorry ancestors doing about states rights. Five other family members made it home after the war and one of them lived the rest of his life with a black woman.


37 posted on 09/29/2011 10:23:47 AM PDT by org.whodat (Just another heartless American, hated by Perry and his fellow democrats.)
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To: org.whodat
The 13th Amendment, properly ratified by the States, abolished slavery.

No enumerated power was ever granted by the States that authorizes Congress to create and empower the DEA to prosecute the domestic drug war. Until they do, that authority still rests with the States.

38 posted on 09/29/2011 10:33:33 AM PDT by tacticalogic
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To: onedoug

ping


39 posted on 09/29/2011 10:36:12 AM PDT by windcliff
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To: SatinDoll

And you think a person like my sister should be allowed to have guns?


Sounds like she could be denied guns if a court adjudicated her unqualified, with the medical marijuana having nothing to do with it.

If I had a brother who was a violent ex-con, and also took medical marijuana, it would be the same.


40 posted on 09/29/2011 10:36:12 AM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Author of BullionBible.com - Makes You a Precious Metal Expert, Guaranteed.)
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To: LonelyCon
-- If medical marijuana is grown, sold, and used in one state, it has nothing to do with interstate commerce, and the Feds. don't have the Constitutional authority to regulate it. --

Justice Scalia said otherwise, in the Raich decision.

And a fellow by the name of Stewart was jailed for possession of an unregistered machine gun that he made himself (I think from scratch), that never left his house. Funny case, that one, as the 9th Circuit said the weapon was not involved in interstate commerce, so he (Stewart) was not afoul of federal law. The US Supreme Court told the 9th Circuit to apply Raich in order to find him guilty.

41 posted on 09/29/2011 10:37:40 AM PDT by Cboldt
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To: tacticalogic

BS, try that argument with the jailer, not me, but he does not care either.


42 posted on 09/29/2011 10:38:42 AM PDT by org.whodat (Just another heartless American, hated by Perry and his fellow democrats.)
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To: Beelzebubba
Sounds like she could be denied guns if a court adjudicated her unqualified,

And in the heirarchy of government powers within the republic, which court is authorized to make that determination?

43 posted on 09/29/2011 10:40:23 AM PDT by tacticalogic
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To: LonelyCon
If medical marijuana is grown, sold, and used in one state, it has nothing to do with interstate commerce

The SCOTUS, including Scalia, disagree. And since their opinion is law, that's that.

Raich v Gonzalez

44 posted on 09/29/2011 10:44:00 AM PDT by Huck (Oy.)
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To: org.whodat

Your “screw original intent” arguments are going to win lots of converts, I’m sure.


45 posted on 09/29/2011 10:44:42 AM PDT by tacticalogic
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To: LonelyCon
A friend of mine went into a gun store several years ago. He was given a list of questions. He asked...

“Can you sell me a gun if I answer “Yes” to any of these questions?”

The guy answered. “No.”

Without reading any more of the questions he marked them all “No”.

I recommend the same course of action.

46 posted on 09/29/2011 10:45:37 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: digger48; Yo-Yo
See too 18 USC 922(g)
(g) It shall be unlawful for any person - ...

(3) who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802)); ...

to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.

The cite Y-Yo provided was a prohibition on transfer, this one is a prohibition on possession.

-- It takes a felony conviction to lose your right to possess a handgun here. --

That or a misdemeanor Domestic Violence convction (18 USC 922(g)(9)), or under a restraining order pertaining to a family member (18 USC 922(g)(8)).

47 posted on 09/29/2011 10:48:22 AM PDT by Cboldt
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To: momtothree
If a person is allowed to have medical marijuana then it isn’t illegal correct?

It's still illegal. State law is trumped by Federal law:

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the constitution or laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding.

The SCOTUS upheld Federal control of drugs, even if it is not interstate commerce, just a few years ago:

Raich v Gonzalez

That is why some goverors, such as Brewer and Christie, have been hesitant to implement their states' med. marijuana laws. All participants, including doctors, state officials, and end-users, and violating federal law and subject to prosecution.

48 posted on 09/29/2011 10:48:22 AM PDT by Huck (Oy.)
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To: digger48

Isn’t this up to the individual states? I believe that here in California, if you have been drinking and are carrying a weapon, you can lose your permit. Not sure of this, but if you are on drugs, wouldn’t the same rule apply?


49 posted on 09/29/2011 10:50:32 AM PDT by RC2
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To: tacticalogic
LOL, has nothing to do with original intent, has nothing to do with the Constitution. Has something to do with the will of the people. Honest hard working people do not want to pay for some druggie to lay home with some fat slut.
50 posted on 09/29/2011 10:51:06 AM PDT by org.whodat (Just another heartless American, hated by Perry and his fellow democrats.)
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