Arctic ozone loss at record level

BBC ^ | 2 October 2011 | Richard Black

[NoGrayZone]

"The cause was an unusually long spell of cold weather at altitude. In cold conditions, the chlorine chemicals that destroy ozone are at their most active."

I thought it was warming that caused it, now it's cold? Is this 2011 or 1970??

[greatplains]

"This is sooooo 80s..."

Exactly what I was thinking - hmmm, wasn't this the disaster du jour back then? Is it the same hole that was getting bigger and threatening the planet? It's just been hanging around quietly for the past 25 year or so? And who would have thought the atmosphere would be cold 13 miles up where it is less dense in the first place. Sheesh.

[frithguild]

But ! But!! But!!! We stoped putting chloroflourocarbons in aerisol cans! We stopped using freon as a refrigerant!!

[LachlanMinnesota]

This can’t be because we are not allowed to use CFC’s in propellants and refrigeration devices, which of course caused all of this problem in the first place. This has to be false, or else the extra money we pay for the alternatives to CFCs was a sham.

Or, maybe there is a natural cause for the variations, in our mother, Gaia, Peace be upon her.

[Terry Mross]

So freon didn’t cause this? I’m shocked!

[aruanan]

The cause was an unusually long spell of cold weather at altitude. In cold conditions, the chlorine chemicals that destroy ozone are at their most active.

It happens in the Antarctic spring once the sun starts reappearing.

You've also got to wonder what's been happening at Mount Erebus as well.

Mount Erebus in Antarctica is the southernmost historically active volcano on Earth, the second highest volcano in Antarctica (after Mount Sidley), and the 6th highest ultra mountain on an island.[1] With a summit elevation of 3,794 metres (12,448 ft), it is located on Ross Island, which is also home to three inactive volcanoes, notably Mount Terror. Mount Erebus is part of the Pacific Ring of Fire, which includes over 160 active volcanoes.

The volcano has been observed to be continuously active since 1972 and is the site of the Mount Erebus Volcano Observatory run by the New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology.[4]

"The main halogen component of volcanic emissions is hydrogen chloride (HCl), with 1-10%/vol (Symonds et al. 1988). The volcanic contribution of 0.4-11 Tg HCl per year (Symonds el al. 1988, Cadle 1980) to the total chlorine budget is approximately equal to the anthropogenic emissions, but the emissions from oceans are magnitudes higher. "
-- from Chapter 7 of Emissions of Chemical Compounds and Aerosols in the Atmosphere, Claire Grano, Claire Reeves, and Paulo Artaxo, Eds., (Kluwer, Dordrecht), 2003.

[frithguild]

Is it the same hole that was getting bigger and threatening the planet?

Human skin cancer rates will skyrocket, the penguins will go blind, plankton will disappear and whales will starve to extinction.

[BereanBrain]

Here are some questions for those with ENOUGH brains to think for themselves (rather than the brainless chicken littles like Al Gore).

1) In the Winter, the wind blows from the north, to the south, bringing colder air to the more temperate areas.

2) Note that the wind is blowing (at the surface of the earth) from the north to the south AROUND the whole globe. Think about this. How can air “blow” from the north to all southern regions? ( in other words it’s blowing from the north down into the US at the same time it’s blowing from the north down into the USSR). Do you see the issue?

3) What happens is that there IS SUPPOSED TO BE A HOLE IN THE OZONE in winter at the top and bottom of the earth. This “hole” allows very cold air from high in the atmosphere to plunge down at the poles, and spread out near the surface, which is the SOURCE of the winds that seemingly blow from nowhere in the winter.

4) If we did not have this effect, the earth would turn into one big hothouse.

In other words, if we “fix” the ozone hole, we WILL have a greenhouse effect.

A disaster which the liberal “green” folks would love, so they would not waste the crisis to seize control of the methods of production.

Facts you SHOULD have learned in 5th grade science ARE important.

[Venturer]

This time the sky is really falling.

[greatplains]

I hate it when that happens.

[Western Phil]

As I recall according to an article I read in the National Geographic in the late 40s, the ozone layer was discovered by atmospheric measurements made by instrumentation of captured V-2 rockets at the White Sands Missile Range. Accurate mapping worldwide must certainly have come much later.

[TheOldLady]

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[eyeamok]

How could this be? we banned CFC’s 15 years ago because they were so dangerous to the Ozone Layer, on a side note, when I was required to take my test for refrigerant license, the very first sentence stated “ we Know there is NO EVIDENCE that CFC’s are destroying the Ozone Layer, but the need is so great, we are phasing out CFC’s anyway” or something to that effect.

[palmer]

Cold stratosphere. The global warming theorists say that a cold stratosphere is part of global warming. In this case though, the ozone hole was due to the lack of ultraviolet from the sun. The latest solar minimum has greatly reduced UV and therefore the production of ozone. It is going to take a year or more to recover.

[palmer]

Cold stratosphere. The global warmists are ok with that, they think it is caused by global warming (troposphere gets thicker causing stratosphere to cool)

[palmer]

Absolutely. The hole is pretty much natural although CFCs did have a role.

[dila813]

“The global warming theorists say that a cold stratosphere is part of global warming.”

Really? what I have read says it should be warming in the Stratosphere than at the surface compared their their historical means.

[palmer]

They started that prediction in 1967 http://scienceofdoom.com/2010/04/18/stratospheric-cooling/ But now it has taken on a life of its own. The stratosphere cools a tiny bit from increased CO2 decade by decade. But the stratosphere can warm or cool in hours with weather or days with solar variation. The polar stratosphere where the ozone scare is has even more wild fluctuations than the rest of the earth

But the fluctuations are primarily natural. The Arctic stratosphere where the current ozone hole scare is, is cooling twice as slowly than the Antarctic stratosphere where the old scary ozone hole was. But if global warming caused stratospheric cooling, then the opposite would be true.

[dila813]

Global Warming or Green House Gas Driven Global Warming?

From what I read, Green House Gas Driven Global Warming has an increase in stratospheric temperature signal, while the absence of it just means that Green House Gas Driven Global Warming isn’t the primary driver.

You can still have global warming, but the signal of the green house gases is missing.

[palmer]

It is true that natural global warming creates no stratospheric "signal" but CO2 global warming does create the "signal". When they say "signal" they mean stratospheric cooling.

I believe their claim is essentially correct, but that they exaggerate the amount of stratospheric cooling due to CO2. Currently we see a lot of stratospheric cooling (about 0.5 degrees per decade), but a lot of that is natural and due to the sun putting out less ultraviolet. IOW the "signal" that they are pointing out is not the "signal" from CO2 global warming, but a natural effect of the deep solar minimum.