Skip to comments.Sarkozy: It Is Silly To Talk About A Jewish State
Posted on 10/06/2011 4:54:31 AM PDT by Fennie
PARIS - French President Nicolas Sarkozy has always described himself as a true friend of Israel. However, according to unusual statements attributed to him in the French magazine Le Canard Enchaine, he unequivocally sides with the Palestinians.
The paper quotes comments made by the French leader during a cabinet meeting held upon his return from last month's UN General Assembly, Yedioth Aharonoth reported.
"It is silly to talk about a Jewish state," Sarkozy said while referring to the Israeli demand that the Palestinians recognize Israel as the Jewish state. "It would be like saying that his table is Catholic. There are two million Arabs in Israel."
(Excerpt) Read more at ynetnews.com ...
There are something like 4.7 million Muslims in France Mr. Sarkozy. Maybe it's silly to call it France.
It has nothing to do with religion. Israel is the nation of the Jewish people just like France is the nation of the French people.
That isn’t a silly notion. For a supposedly bright man, Sarkozy can be clueless about the Middle East.
Is the Vatican Catholic?
He has a point.
Language has meaning.
No Israeli would be open to recognizing Gaza or the West Bank as Islamic states. Israel has about 2 million Israeli Arabs (Christian and Muslim). To state flatly that Israel is a Jewish state would be to suggest that these 2 million are second-class citizens.
Israel should adopt the stance of Britain, Greece etc and emphasise Judaism as the official religion. There is a difference between making Judaism the official religion and calling Israel a Jewish state.
Is it silly to call Iran an Islamic state?
Sarzoky is part Jewish as well..
yes. It is a Persian state. As the ayatollah’s grip tightens, the mosques are empty as people embrace their distictiveness from Arabs
Is it silly to call Iran an Islamic state?
agreed! or Saudi Arabia,
where you are forbidden to bring a Bible or cross in,
even in your personal luggage.
...and kuffirs are forbidden, on pain of death,
to even VISIT the city of Mecca?
and recent comments from the Palestinian “Ambassador”,
that the new state will be totally “Jew free”,
and that the Palestinians in the refugee camps,
will NOT be allowed citizenship... !!!
(that’s not even 2nd class citizenship!)
...all seems to have escaped Sarkozy’s attention.
Muslims will never accept a non-muslim state,
whether it’s called a Jewish state or not.
MEMRI shows what they say in their own media.
true. many Muslims, including many in Iran, Pakistan, etc., dislike Arabs. they do draw a distinction.
but, the absolutely would call their country,
a Muslim country.
it was in “Persia” that the Quran, and Islam, took it’s final form.
Iran is both Persian, AND Muslim.
Just as many Israelis are Jewish, but come to Israel from many different races and cultures.
for your review & possible ping.
“Israeli state” will work fine. The Israelis will work out the internals.
No one has any trouble recognizing Saudi Arabia as an Islamic state.
And I, as a Jew, will state flatly that the United States is a Christian country. It doesn't bother me in the least. In fact, the extent to which the country tries to shed its Christianity bothers me. I do not, in any way, feel that I am second class citizen here.
The US was set up as a secular republic and still is a secular republic today. The words “separation of Church and State” were first used in America.
Most Americans however, are Christians and the history of America (from Negro spirituals to Mayflower Pilgrims to Irish Catholics) has been influenced by Christianity.
That is an important distinction.
I am a Christian, and I am well aware of the damage done to Christianity by Constantine who combined Church and State. (You know that Constantine’s innovation eventually led to the Spanish inquisition and several Jewish pogroms). It was the weight history that made America’s founding fathers to insist on separation of Church and State. And it has worked out well so far.
I have lived in or visited several African nations that have significant Christian and Muslim populations and I understand firsthand the tensions. Israel faces a demographic time bomb (the Non-Jewish population is out-breeding the Jewish population) and you really need to consider how to proactively deal with that problem.
The words separation of Church and State are completely misunderstood today, and obviously by you. When they were written in an otherwise forgotten letter penned by Thomas Jefferson, most of the States had official religions which were of one Christian denomination or another.
Read here, if you are interested in learning.
Let me start by saying that I am not American and I am not an American studies scholar. My question is this, does the American constitution expressly state that the United States is a Christian nation?
In the United Kingdom for example, the official State religion is Anglicanism and the Supreme Governor of the Church of England and Defender of the Faith is the Queen who is also the Head of State. So one can easily conclude that Great Britain is a State where Anglicanism is the official State religion.
I don’t know how one can make that claim in the United States of America. Nobody disputes the fact that Americans are overwhelmingly Christian and that America is a nation whose history was deeply influenced by Christianity, but does that make America a Christian state?
America shares very little in common with historical Christian states - like the Holy Roman Empire, Ferdinand and Isabella’s Spain or Calvin’s Geneva or even what St. Augustine of Hippo would have envisioned a Christian State to look like.
Unlike Islam (where there is no separation of Church and State) and Judaism (where there is an office for the King and the Chief priest and David and Josiah are held as examples of a righteous king), Christianity requires us to “render unto Caesar what is Caeser’s and unto God what is God’s” and to “pray for Kings and all those in authority” as well as being the salt of the earth and standing up for the truth.
America’s founding fathers were not stupid and they understood how a thousand years of mixing politics and Christianity had corrupted Christianity - and they wanted none of that in their new Republic. This is what led Jefferson to famously say that “but it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”
Jefferson was elected president in 1801 and was the principal author of the American declaration of Independence.
Please also note that the American Revolution avoided all the pitfalls of the French Revolution which was fundamentally anti-religious. The American founding fathers set up a system in which all men, regardless of their religious orientation were free to worship whatsoever they wanted. A true Christian nation would not allow freedom of worship.
That is why St. Augustine did not believe it was possible to set up a true Christian nation on Earth and I share his view. We Christians believe that when Christ sets up His Kingdom on Earth, the World will have its first true Christian nation. In the meantime, our job is too lead men to Christ and that job is much easier to do in a Secular State, than in a Religious State.
i think you are missing the point...
jewish state has nothing to do with religion... a place where jews can call home. religious and non religious jews.
not strictly religious, they do not prohibit anyone from practicing any religion...
I don’t get it. You can call for U.N. recognition of a Palestinian State but you think it’s preposterous to discuss a Jewish State.
Pakistan, no -- the Pakis now think they are Arabs.
If youd like to be on or off, please FR mail me.
Amongst them many states overrun by the Reich. France has the honor of not needing the SS to round up their Jews, they were happy to do it themselves. So it's understandable that to Sarkozy there would be no reason for a secular Jewish state, which like no religion France or Christian America allows all forms of worship.
I'm sure I missed it, could someone post Sarkozy's condemnation of the Islamic nation to be created by the UN, one which will not tolerate the presence of Jews in their border? In the absense of that condemnation, and opposition to the creation of a state founded on religious intolerance, shame on him. Shame on the US for accepting that formula too.
They won't be thrown out like Jews in Arab lands, but should an Islamic palestinian state be created, wonder how many of those Muslim Arabs living in Israel, about 20% of the population, will move.
By the normal usage of the term, yes. Did you know that when Jefferson drafted the Declaration, under the Continental Congress and later under the Articles of Confederation, Protestants voted and could hold office in 13 colonies, Catholics in 11, and Jews (any Muslims, Hidus or anyone else too) in 9? Don't spend a lot of time looking for Jefferson's criticism of that policy, it was a states rights issue, before we had states. With the adoption of the Constitution Catholics picked up those two states (state Constitution changes), Jews picked up two also, but didn't get the last two till the 1820s. The idea that religion, specifically Christianity, was detatched from the American culture of the time simply isn't true.
More accurately, flee to. Even no Jews persecuted for Jewish heritage.
From our old friends at Saturday Night Live:
“France: rolling countrysides, sprawling vineyards, quaint cafes.
“France: home to the world’s greatest painters, chefs, and anti-Semites.
“The French: cowardly, yet opinionated; arrogant, yet foul-smelling; anti-Israel, anti-American, and, of course, as always, Jew-hating.
“Paris: the city of whores, dog feces on every corner, and effete men yelling anti-Semitic remarks at children. The real crème de la crème of world culture.
“With all that’s going on in the world, isn’t it about time we got back to hating the French?”
I must admit that I was unaware of that info.
They’d say it was Vichy, as though that’s detached from France. Like the thousand or so American casualties when we invaded North Africa. Not inflicted by Germans, but by Vichy. In no way to demean the Free French, but “France”, like “Norway” and many European nations was a mixed bag. Given their history, Sarkozy of all people should recognize why a Jewish state is necessary. And the French can’t help but notice that after granting Algeria independence, Jews and Christians were stripped of their citizenship. Though as French citizens, they could flee to France. Willful blindness.
BTW, an interesting, irrelevant aside, Patton’s first taste of incoming during WWII was approaching Morrocco on the USS Augusta. Not German incoming, French. Don’t remember that being in the movie.
That I did know..as well as his distaste for the French.
Once again, thank you.
The problem is that your reasoning is based on a mistaken assumption. The assumption is that Judaism is solely a religion.
It is not.
Judaism is both a nationality and the religion for it. During the millenia that the Jewish people where displaced from thier homeland, it because harder to see that Judaism was a nationality, but it is.
So to say that Israel is not home to the Jewish people is exactly the same as saying Russia is not the homeland for Russians, or China for the Chinese.
What do you expect from the traitor behind the Union for the Mediterranean? This is a man who opposes the existence of a Gallic France. At least this will put to rest the delusion of the left and anti-Semitic right that Sarkozy is a Zionist. Then again, I said delusion.
PS. You are also wrong about the demographics of Israel. Jews are having more kids and Arabs fewer.