Skip to comments.Rick Perry backer Robert Jeffress: Mitt Romney not a Christian
Posted on 10/07/2011 5:17:45 PM PDT by freespirited
Texas evangelical leader Robert Jeffress, the Baptist megachurch pastor who introduced Rick Perry at the Values Voter Summit, said Friday afternoon he does not believe Mitt Romney is a Christian.
Jeffress described Romney's Mormon faith as a cult, and said evangelicals had only one real option in the 2012 primaries. Continue Reading
That is a mainstream view, that Mormonism is a cult, Jeffress told reporters here. Every true, born again follower of Christ ought to embrace a Christian over a non-Christian.
Asked by POLITICO if he believed Romney is a Christian, Jeffress answered: No.
Jeffress's comments represent the first major attack of the 2012 cycle on Romney over his membership in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, an issue that some Romney supporters believe cost the former Massachusetts governor in his last presidential run.
The attack on Romney wasnt just faith-based. Jeffress called the Republican presidential candidate a conservative out of convenience who does not have a consistent track record on the subject of marriage, on the sanctity of life.
I just do not believe that we as conservative Christians can expect him to stand strong for the issues that are important to us, he said.
Jeffress said that he had not spoken with Perry about his views on Romney's faith and was in no way speaking for him. In an email, Perry campaign spokesman Robert Black said that the campaign didnt choose Jeffress to introduce Perry and does not share his view of Mormonism.
The Romney campaign did not respond to a request for comment, nor did the campaign of former Utah Gov. Jon Huntsman, the other Mormon candidate in the Republican presidential race.
Looking ahead to the general election, Jeffress warned that in a race between Romney and Obama, he believes many evangelicals will stay home and leave the GOP nominee without their votes.
I do not think evangelical voters are going to be motivated to go out and vote for Mitt Romney, he said. The conservative Christian leader said that he himself would vote for Romney and does not doubt that he is a good man.
I think hes a fine family person, Jeffress explained. It is only faith in Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ alone that qualifies you as a Christian.
Jeffress said he does not believe that Mormonism is a disqualifier for the presidency, pointing out that constitutionally, the government can impose no religious test.
Private citizens can impose all kinds of religious tests, he added.
I also have a problem with the fact that he trades on his religion and he's going to expect that other Mormons will vote for him strictly because of it. That is nothing against the other Mormons, it's against him for trading on it.
From the main-stream Christian apostate perspective, you could argue doctrine that way.
But your views on the nature of God are based on old sectarian notions, interpreting Biblical scriptures in a way to fit your own beliefes, not revelation from God to clarify such issues directly.
Your interpretations are in conflict with 20,000 other Christian churchs. THere is quite a variety of opinions among those 20,000.
Gotta agree. Mormons are generally very, very solid Americans and vote very conservatively.
While I wouldn't necessarily refer to Mormonism as a cult, I don't think they are Christians. Just the same, that has nothing to do with why I don't care for Romney. The problem with Mitt is he a flip flopper, with a not particularly conservative record (and that's being generous).
Still, everyone knew this was coming and many Christians are not going to be terribly excited about voting for a Mormon.
Hey, I just posted something off the mormon website. I’m a Baptist and would never, ever vote for Romney, one reason being he’s a mormon.
I guess this means "evangelicals" would prefer to have a moslem over a Mormon. Brilliant, they are.
That is one of the many reason I wouldn't vote for him.
What is it the paper said which is incorrect? lds have secret temple ceremonies and all that goes with that. Enlighten us about what was said is wrong, rather than attacking the poster personally, if you are able that is.
What particular doctrine are you referring to?
Romney is a phony and a statist. Whether that has to do with his Mormonism or not doesn’t matter.
Isaiah 43:10: Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me. Of course, that is just a verse, but it does support the monotheism I referred to.
The Mormon “jesus” returns not to Jerusalem, Israel but to adam-ondi-ahman near Gallatin, Missouri where Adam and Eve had been driven out of the Garden of Eden in Jackson County, Missouri — basically Kansas City, Missouri and nearby Independence, Missouri where a huge spire marks the RLDS Auditorium (an offshoot). There are other cities in JCM. Mormons and RLDS are decent people but Joseph Smith created all sorts of bizarre stuff for which there is no archaeological evidence. Someone can post a pic of adam-ondi-ahman.
The Mormon “jesus” returns not to Jerusalem, Israel but to adam-ondi-ahman near Gallatin, Missouri where Adam and Eve had been driven out of the Garden of Eden in Jackson County, Missouri — basically Kansas City, Missouri and nearby Independence, Missouri where a huge spire marks the RLDS Auditorium (an offshoot). There are other cities in JCM. Mormons and RLDS are decent people but Joseph Smith created all sorts of bizarre stuff for which there is no archaeological evidence.
I wouldn’t vote for anyone who believes all that.
Joey Smith was the earlier version of L. Ron Hubbard.
It was taught not only early on but by Bruce McConkie in the 1970’s, who I believe was married to a daughter of Joseph Fielding Smith, son of Joseph Smith. Hope somebody Googles the image and posts because I cannot from this device.
The Godhead is one in purpose, not in physicality.
The meeting in Constantinople in the early centuries AD was really confused on this matter. You are similarly confused.
He's not a "Perry guy". See exerpt from the article below:
"Jeffress said that he had not spoken with Perry about his views on Romney's faith and was in no way speaking for him. In an email, Perry campaign spokesman Robert Black said that the campaign didnt choose Jeffress to introduce Perry and does not share his view of Mormonism."
This is simple fundamentalist, anti-Mormon activist talking points. It’s not a serious post, and I wish I could find an intelligent anti-Mormon activist. Most all the anti-Mormon Freepers I have seen here don’t understand their own beliefs..the basics of their own religion. You draw near to the Lord with your lips, but your hearts are far from him.
You don’t understand charity, the pure love of Christ. You must not live charity.. or you wouldn’t post such stuff.
John 14:8-11(NIV) 8 Philip said, Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us. 9 Jesus answered: Dont you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, Show us the Father? 10 Dont you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.
What’s wrong with being anti-mormon? I’m also anti-islam. So?
Jesus, when confronted with false doctrine: "Jesus replied, You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God." Matt 22:29 (NIV)
That is why I and the other try to show what JS and BY and other main men have taught. I spent some time this summer helping to prepare and serve food in an RLDS summer camp a couple months ago. We served about 100 people on the biggest day, a Saturday. I enjoyed the work (non-paid). They were all great people but I didn’t become a disciple of Joseph Smith due to what I know. Had a good time around kind, decent folk, though.
“I like you believe that Mormonism is a cult, but if Mitt is the nominee he gets my vote.”
Sure, he’ll get my vote but other than showing up in the voting booth, I will not lift a finger to help get this guy elected.
Further, I don’t think Mitt is nearly as “electable” as the MSM and GOP establishment would like us to believe. If he’s the nominee, the MSM and Obama’s billion dollar machine will be able to shine a pretty bright spotlight on Mitt’s numerous inconsistencies over the years-and there have been far more and the flip flops are much more blatant and transparent than any other candidate. They’re silent about it now, but I guarantee you this is why they want him as the nominee, cause they know he will be easy to rip to shreds in the general.
This is why I think stopping Romney in the primary is nearly as important as beating Obama in the general. Not only is Romney a liberal Republican that is unlikable and inspires zero passion from the base, he would also have a very hard time getting elected in the general.
Gen 1:1 "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."
John 1:1-3 "1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. "
Every true, born again follower of Christ ought to embrace a Christian over a non-Christian.
This guy needs to look up “unjust weights and measures” in the Bible.
That being said, I support Cain, then the most conservative person after that.
And what they leave out is...Jesus is a created being, the spirit brother of Lucifer (who also applied to be Savior btw), that Jesus paid for sins in the Garden not on the cross, but it only kicks in after they have done all they can do and we have to pay Him back with our good works.
Then, let’s not forget, that to them ‘salvation by grace’ is only salvation from physical death (resurrection) and that is free (we will all be resurrected) but exaltation (LDS version of Christian Heaven - living with God) is based upon our membership in the LDS church and good works which will also result in godhood if they are good enough.
And their Jesus killed tens of thousands of unrighteous AFTER HIS CRUCIFIXION (which one leader said was because he was a polygamist) here on the American continent then bragged about it. (3 Nephi 4 - Book of Mormon)
Finally, The LDS Jesus was created by God having sex with Mary (she is one of his plural wives btw as well as being his spirit daughter) and is just like us, except God is his literal physical father (through sex) and thus our ‘elder brother’ Jesus is an example of how we can be morally perfect and live sinless lives on our own accord.
And, yes, I can source ALL of that with writings from LDS leaders, apostles and prophets.
There are 20,000 polytheistic Christian churches?
I assume you have a valid list...
You know what is funny Count, I have had you peers on this very site argue that their Mormon faith is not polytheistic. And you wonder why your words ring hollow...
Oh, hello, Count. I am so sorry to ome against your faith. The Mormons I know are all seem to be succhsweet people. The tragedy is they are being so hideously misled. Are you a truth seeker? If so, please keep an open mind as you search into where you hang your hopes. Happy hunting.
“I wish I could find one intelligent anti-Mormon activist. All the ones I see are like you and they dont do justice to your cause.. whatever it is.”
I wish I could find one mormon that had any:
... to support the wild claims of mormonism. There aren’t any. In the end, all they have is feelings and feelings to back up their feelings.
They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.Who has made this so?Have I?Have this people?Have the world?No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.Can you pass without his inspection?No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?
--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224
I do Romney.agree with you on stopping
Mormons are crazy.
Like it or not, there will be a VERY HIGH percentage who vote for Romney because hes a Mormon, not because of his positions on policy issues.
He couldn't even beat McCain last time!!!
Yeah; I sure know what you mean!
How did he DO that?
With whose money??
The argument here is circular. It follows a line of reasoning that presumes that Mormonism is the only true Church, therefore anything that disagrees with a Mormon view must be false. Thus any evidence from the first few centuries of the Church that disagrees with mormonism must be apostate. Your logic is tantamount to saying I am right because I am right. It ignores the possibility that Mormonism could be false and provides no justification for the claim. In order to make your case, you must demonstrate that most of the followers of Jesus embraced what Mormonism teaches and then betrayed those teachings.
What evidence of apostasy do you have? When did your proposed apostasy occur?
There are many historical resources from the Apostolic Age that indicate that traditional Christian doctrines (that I presume that you are calling apostate) were taught well before the Councils of Nicaea or Constantinople. For instance, you have St. Ignatius of Antioch ordained bishop of Antioch by Peter and a personal pupil of the John the Apostle wrote that the bread and wine of the sacrament were really and truly the flesh and blood of Christ. He wrote in the 1st and 2nd Century A.D. and was martyred in 107 A.D. He obviously was no coward and would rather die than apostatize which give some degree of weight to his teachings. There is also the Didache of the Late 1st Century A.D. which disagrees with many Mormon positions concerning doctrines of baptism and the Lord's Supper, etc. Tertullian discusses the Trinity in the third century and is the first to use that word, but the concept is discussed earlier. Other sources concerning the Church from the time of the Apostles are Clement of Rome, Polycarp of Smyrna, etc. The list of sources from before Nicea and Constantinople goes on all of the way back to the time of the Apostles and they are very supportive of Traditional Christianity.
How does an intelligent person differentiate between the two?
ALL of those?
I guess that leaves about 180,000 that are in agreement; right?
You are SO right!!!
I just HATE when that happens!!
"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.
The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings.
This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the 'servant of servants', and they will be, until that curse is removed."
Brigham Young-President and second 'Prophet' of the Mormon Church, 1844-1877- Extract from Journal of Discourses.
Here are two examples from their 'other testament', the Book of Mormon.
2 Nephi 5: 21 'And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.'
Alma 3: 6 'And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.'
August 27, 1954 in an address at Brigham Young University (BYU), Mormon Elder, Mark E Peterson, in speaking to a convention of teachers of religion at the college level, said:
(Rosa Parks would have probably told Petersen under which wheel of the bus he should go sit.)
1967, (then) Mormon President Ezra Taft Benson said,
"The Communist program for revolution in America has been in progress for many years and is far advanced. First of all, we must not place the blame upon Negroes. They are merely the unfortunate group that has been selected by professional Communist agitators to be used as the primary source of cannon fodder."
We are told that on June 8, 1978, it was 'revealed' to the then president, Spencer Kimball, that people of color could now gain entry into the priesthood.
According to the church, Kimball spent many long hours petitioning God, begging him to give worthy black people the priesthood. God finally relented.
Sometime before the 'revelation' came to chief 'Prophet' Spencer Kimball in June 1978, General Authority, Bruce R McConkie had said:
"The Blacks are denied the Priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty.
The Negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow there from, but this inequality is not of man's origin, it is the Lord's doings."
(Mormon Doctrine, pp. 526-527).
When Mormon 'Apostle' Mark E Petersen spoke on 'Race Problems- As they affect the Church' at the BYU campus in 1954, the following was also said:
"...if the negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory."
When Mormon 'Prophet' and second President of the Church, Brigham Young, spoke in 1863 the following was also said:
"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God is death on the spot. This will always be so."
(Journal of Discourses, Vo. 10, p. 110)
Yeah; Native Americans are althroughout the Book of MORMON; too.
I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today ... they are fast becoming a white and delightsome people.... For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised.... The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation.
At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl-sixteen-sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parentson the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather.... These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness.
One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated.
(Improvement Era, December 1960, pp.922-23). (p. 209)
Are you PERSONALLY bigoted against MUSLIMS?
The Christianity issue aside, Mittens is very likely a nominal Mormon.
You have a point...
"Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them.
Matthew 231. Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:
2. "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
3. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
4. They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
5. "Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long;
6. they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues;
7. they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them `Rabbi.'
8. "But you are not to be called `Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers.
9. And do not call anyone on earth `father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
10. Nor are you to be called `teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ.
11. The greatest among you will be your servant.
12. For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
13. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
14. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
15. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.
16. "Woe to you, blind guides! You say, `If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.'
17. You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?
18. You also say, `If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.'
19. You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?
20. Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.
21. And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it.
22. And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.
23. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
24. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
25. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
26. Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
27. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean.
28. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
29. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous.
30. And you say, `If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.'
31. So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets.
32. Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!
33. "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
34. Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
35. And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
36. I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.
37. "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.
38. Look, your house is left to you desolate.
39. For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, `Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.' "
26. The woman was a Greek, born in Syrian Phoenicia. She begged Jesus to drive the demon out of her daughter.
27. "First let the children eat all they want," he told her, "for it is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."
And St. Paul chimes in...
As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!
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