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Mark Steyn: Unsettling (Herman Cain's woes say more about us than him)
National Review ^ | 11/01/2011 | Mark Steyn

Posted on 11/01/2011 6:34:36 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

Edited on 11/01/2011 6:35:33 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

"There were also descriptions of physical gestures that were not overtly sexual but that made women who experienced or witnessed them uncomfortable."

What does that mean? Because, if you’re going to destroy a man’s life over it, it ought to mean something. A “gesture” that is not “sexual” but that makes women “uncomfortable” enough to threaten sexual harrassment?


(Excerpt) Read more at nationalreview.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: hermancain; marksteyn; sexualharrassment; steyn; unsettling
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1 posted on 11/01/2011 6:34:37 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind
Yet for the first time in decades I feel a sudden craving for nicotine, possibly while making non-sexual gestures of an uncomfortable nature.

LOL! I know how he feels. I almost wish I wanted to smoke, just to offend the idiot leftists.

2 posted on 11/01/2011 6:38:18 AM PDT by Tax-chick (I'm sure your dog likes you.)
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To: SeekAndFind

When a gal needs a five-figure severance payment, “You’re almost as tall as my wife” sounds a lot like “You must be this tall to ride.”


3 posted on 11/01/2011 6:41:25 AM PDT by Lady Lucky (Time to hit the reset button on the American experiment.)
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To: SeekAndFind
And the media keeps implying there were two instances. We don't have facts on that. It could have been a one-time thing, where two women were present at the same time, and they both jumped on the “gimme a check” bandwagon.

I witnessed that exact thing happen last summer. My boss was standing in the office of two women. The door was wide open, and there were other people in the hallway. Both of the women in that office hated my boss, but he didn’t realize the extent of their hatred until later.

One of the women was pregnant, and he made a comment to the effect of, “How’s the baby? Have you picked a name yet? Maybe you could name him Frank. Frank is a good name.” Frank was my boss’s name (fictional name for this story).

The pregnant woman took EXTREME offense to the thought of naming her baby Frank, because she hated him so much. She accused him of being inappropriate, and said his comment implied that she had had sex with him. She found that thought so repugnant that she retained a LAWYER!! And she had a“witness” because of the other woman in the office who also hated my boss.

My boss nearly got run off, even though his comment was intended to be friendly in nature. Both of those women were absolutely useless as employees, and they should have been dismissed long ago because of their horrible work performance. The women knew it, and there were massive layoffs coming, so they used this trumped up charge to keep their jobs for several more weeks (until the project ended). My poor boss had to put up with their superior attitudes during that time because they had a lawyer and they were untouchable.

Women can be extremely vicious, and Men are always on the defensive when it comes to these things. It’s always “guilty until proven innocent” in these cases.

4 posted on 11/01/2011 6:44:35 AM PDT by BagCamAddict (Order 15 Herman Cain Yard Signs for $130: https://store.hermancain.com/orderform.asp?pid=20)
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To: Tax-chick

Get one of those electronic cigarettes that emits water vapor - the anit-smoking nazis have a fetish about smoking that’s so strongly superstitious that *anything* that even vaguely reminds them of ciggies puts them over the edge.


5 posted on 11/01/2011 6:44:48 AM PDT by Stosh
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To: JLS

Ping


6 posted on 11/01/2011 6:46:20 AM PDT by knews_hound (Credo Quia Absurdium--take nothing seriously unless it is absurd. E. Clampus Vitus)
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To: BagCamAddict

bttt


7 posted on 11/01/2011 6:46:51 AM PDT by Matchett-PI (Obamageddon, Barackalypse Now! Bam is "Debt Man Walking" in 2012 - Rush Limbaugh)
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To: Stosh

>>the anit-smoking nazis have a fetish about smoking that’s so strongly superstitious that *anything* that even vaguely reminds them of ciggies puts them over the edge.

Unless it is ‘medical’ marijuana, then it is a sacred right protected by gaia or some other pagan ‘god’.


8 posted on 11/01/2011 6:50:36 AM PDT by Betis70 (Bruins!)
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To: BagCamAddict

“It could have been a one-time thing,”

There were at least TWO women, in SEPARATE instances. From Cain’s own mouth last night on Gretta.


9 posted on 11/01/2011 6:54:37 AM PDT by faucetman (Just the facts ma'am, just the facts)
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To: Stosh

> anit-smoking nazis have a fetish about smoking

Yet dope-smoking is perfectly okay with them.

The hypocrisy of the Left is boundless.


10 posted on 11/01/2011 6:58:16 AM PDT by Westbrook
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To: SeekAndFind

Hey, Politico,

Here’s a gesture that should make you uncomfortable...


11 posted on 11/01/2011 7:02:16 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: Tax-chick

It’s fairly chilly today, but I might walk the yard with a cigar in honor of both you and Mark...


12 posted on 11/01/2011 7:03:43 AM PDT by bcsco (A vote for Cain will cure the Pain!)
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To: faucetman

Ok. Didn’t see Greta. Thanks.


13 posted on 11/01/2011 7:05:03 AM PDT by BagCamAddict (Order 15 Herman Cain Yard Signs for $130: https://store.hermancain.com/orderform.asp?pid=20)
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To: BagCamAddict
Women can be extremely vicious

More so now than I've ever seen in my life.

14 posted on 11/01/2011 7:06:10 AM PDT by WhistlingPastTheGraveyard (Some men just want to watch the world burn.)
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To: SeekAndFind
What was the CONTEXT? I can think of a sexual connotation of comparing another woman's height to your wife's height, can't you? Sexual type banter is very common today with the degrading of our moral culture. It has no place in the workplace, especially between superiors and subordinates, but to deny that it occurs, on a regular basis, is naive. This will only INCREASE as the culture continues to decay.

Another side to this is that it will hurt women's chances of breaking that glass ceiling. If a man is going to be under constant threat of harassment charges, maybe it is just easier (and cheaper) not to have women around. It can get to the point where a man can't be alone in a room with a woman. I think we are already there. Why risk it? Not that a woman would EVER use her wiles to try to get advancement. Not that a man could EVER be susceptible to such wiles. HUMAN NATURE!!!!!

I don't know where all this is heading, but somehow I think it isn't good.

Maybe bringing back “the slap in the face” without having to face assault charges, might work. Maybe enforcing an appropriate dress code for the workplace would help.
Maybe some practical education phrases to live by.

When speaking to your spouse, as in the vane of the Suzy Bogguss song lyric... “You wouldn't say that to a stranger”.

When speaking to a coworker of the opposite sex, always imagine your spouse (singles could use their mom or significant other) is standing right next to you. Hanging on your every word and scrutinizing your every glance. Would this affect your behavior? I think it would affect EVERYONE'S behavior. Just a thought.

15 posted on 11/01/2011 7:22:34 AM PDT by faucetman (Just the facts ma'am, just the facts)
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To: WhistlingPastTheGraveyard

And Cain polls worse with Women than he does with Men. Men are attracted to his business demeanor, leadership, telling-it-like-it-is style, direct, blunt, decisive, etc. The majority of women don’t walk in the circle of the CEO, the Board Room, etc. So watching Cain be Cain is not what they are used to in a Politician. Women are used to Politicians who walk the middle ground, who never have a harsh word to say, who beat around the bush (more how women communicate), etc.

However, probably every single woman knows how vicious and vindictive women can be, and they probably even know a woman who has done something similar to that. So maybe Women will have sympathy for Cain on this issue. Either way, it will be very interesting to see how this issue affects Cain’s polling among Women.


16 posted on 11/01/2011 7:30:09 AM PDT by BagCamAddict (Order 15 Herman Cain Yard Signs for $130: https://store.hermancain.com/orderform.asp?pid=20)
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To: faucetman

A man usually compares a woman to his wife when he is trying to buy something for his wife.


17 posted on 11/01/2011 7:32:11 AM PDT by greatvikingone
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To: BagCamAddict; WhistlingPastTheGraveyard

Rudyard Kipling - The Female of the Species:

WHEN the Himalayan peasant meets the he-bear in his pride,
He shouts to scare the monster, who will often turn aside.
But the she-bear thus accosted rends the peasant tooth and nail.
For the female of the species is more deadly than the male.

When Nag the basking cobra hears the careless foot of man,
He will sometimes wriggle sideways and avoid it if he can.
But his mate makes no such motion where she camps beside the trail.
For the female of the species is more deadly than the male.

When the early Jesuit fathers preached to Hurons and Choctaws,
They prayed to be delivered from the vengeance of the squaws.
‘Twas the women, not the warriors, turned those stark enthusiasts pale.
For the female of the species is more deadly than the male.

Man’s timid heart is bursting with the things he must not say,
For the Woman that God gave him isn’t his to give away;
But when hunter meets with husbands, each confirms the other’s tale—
The female of the species is more deadly than the male.

Man, a bear in most relations—worm and savage otherwise,—
Man propounds negotiations, Man accepts the compromise.
Very rarely will he squarely push the logic of a fact
To its ultimate conclusion in unmitigated act.

Fear, or foolishness, impels him, ere he lay the wicked low,
To concede some form of trial even to his fiercest foe.
Mirth obscene diverts his anger—Doubt and Pity oft perplex
Him in dealing with an issue—to the scandal of The Sex!

But the Woman that God gave him, every fibre of her frame
Proves her launched for one sole issue, armed and engined for the same;
And to serve that single issue, lest the generations fail,
The female of the species must be deadlier than the male.

She who faces Death by torture for each life beneath her breast
May not deal in doubt or pity—must not swerve for fact or jest.
These be purely male diversions—not in these her honour dwells—
She the Other Law we live by, is that Law and nothing else.

She can bring no more to living than the powers that make her great
As the Mother of the Infant and the Mistress of the Mate.
And when Babe and Man are lacking and she strides unclaimed to claim
Her right as femme (and baron), her equipment is the same.

She is wedded to convictions—in default of grosser ties;
Her contentions are her children, Heaven help him who denies!—
He will meet no suave discussion, but the instant, white-hot, wild,
Wakened female of the species warring as for spouse and child.

Unprovoked and awful charges—even so the she-bear fights,
Speech that drips, corrodes, and poisons—even so the cobra bites,
Scientific vivisection of one nerve till it is raw
And the victim writhes in anguish—like the Jesuit with the squaw!

So it comes that Man, the coward, when he gathers to confer
With his fellow-braves in council, dare not leave a place for her
Where, at war with Life and Conscience, he uplifts his erring hands
To some God of Abstract Justice—which no woman understands.

And Man knows it! Knows, moreover, that the Woman that God gave him
Must command but may not govern—shall enthral but not enslave him.
And She knows, because She warns him, and Her instincts never fail,
That the Female of Her Species is more deadly than the Male.


18 posted on 11/01/2011 7:37:57 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: SeekAndFind
And here I thought Clinton gave us:

* the 3-second free grope
* dropping pants any time you want
* having sex with someone you hold power over in the workplace as long as it is "consensual"
* abuse of tobacco products in the most carnal way
* categorizing victims are stalkers
* having to assign a division of lawyers to defend against bimbo eruptions

19 posted on 11/01/2011 7:37:57 AM PDT by SERKIT ("Blazing Saddles" explains it all......)
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To: Lady Lucky
How about no, I have a little woman this tall and I do not need you. Hell has no fury like a woman scorned.
20 posted on 11/01/2011 7:39:17 AM PDT by org.whodat (Just another heartless American, hated by Perry and his fellow demorats.)
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To: SeekAndFind
What does that mean?

It means a couple of women were close to being fired for poor performance, so they decided to try for the big pay out and filed a false charge. They ended up not getting much and having to leave anyway.

If they are the "anonymous" sources now, then I would be willing to bet it is all because they didn't get the big payoff they wanted back then and are trying to make up for it.

21 posted on 11/01/2011 7:45:08 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: faucetman
I can think of a sexual connotation of comparing another woman's height to your wife's height, can't you?

No, actually, I can't unless something specifically sexual was said along with that statement (and that doesn't appear to be the case here).

I'm not the kind of person who goes around looking for a reason to be offended. Some people (those who consider themselves "victims" of one sort or another or are trying to get a few minutes of fame or a few dollars from a lawsuit) are "offended" by the least little thing.

22 posted on 11/01/2011 7:54:26 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: Tax-chick
"Yet for the first time in decades I feel a sudden craving for nicotine, possibly while making non-sexual gestures of an uncomfortable nature."

Best line in a great article - Steyn is always a pleasure to read - the first thing I turn to when my National Review mag come in.

23 posted on 11/01/2011 7:54:36 AM PDT by Psalm 73 ("Gentlemen, you can't fight in here - this is the War Room".)
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To: SeekAndFind

PC and pandering is going to be the death of us all.


24 posted on 11/01/2011 8:05:23 AM PDT by bgill (The Obama administration is staging a coup. Wake up, America, before it's too late.)
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To: BagCamAddict
Cain polls worse with Women than he does with Men

This Texas woman will proudly cast her vote for Cain.

25 posted on 11/01/2011 8:09:59 AM PDT by bgill (The Obama administration is staging a coup. Wake up, America, before it's too late.)
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To: SeekAndFind

People like captivity but they abhor freedom.

At least that’s the consistent message of our society. We’re “uncomfortable” with original people. They don’t fit in.

That’s the bupkis the Cain campaign’s troubles have told us. Our elites are judgmental over relatively inconsequential matters and are dismissive of those that do threaten our future.

No wonder they dread Cain.


26 posted on 11/01/2011 8:11:31 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: SeekAndFind
"Pick a target, freeze it, polarize it." -- Saul Alinsky, "Rules for Radicals", Obama's bible.

Cain is done. The media will use this trivial bit of oppo research to destroy him. ANY appearance of impropriety is enough to destroy righteous people, and the demonic Alinsky followers in the media know this.

Obama will face Romney, and either Romney will be paid to capitulate like McCain did, or ACORN et al will manufacture enough votes for Obama to win re-election. If not, then Obama will sieze the media via EAS, and declare martial law.

There is no political solution left for the federal government. It has become the sworn enemy of the people.

27 posted on 11/01/2011 8:22:38 AM PDT by backwoods-engineer (Any politician who holds that the state accords rights is an oathbreaker and an "enemy... domestic.")
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To: SeekAndFind

All I can say about this is I sure wish Sarah ran.
Her smears are much more interesting.


28 posted on 11/01/2011 8:28:10 AM PDT by No!
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To: backwoods-engineer

RE: Cain is done. The media will use this trivial bit of oppo research to destroy him. ANY appearance of impropriety is enough to destroy righteous people, and the demonic Alinsky followers in the media know this.

______________

Not so fast. Cain is done ONLY IF his current supporters abandon him in droves because of this so-called 15 year old no-real-victim incident.

If his supporters are that superficial and want to make a big thing out of something so insignificant because some liberal rag want to make it a big deal, then it speaks volumes more about his supporters than him.


29 posted on 11/01/2011 8:43:25 AM PDT by SeekAndFind (u)
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To: org.whodat

I rather doubt she was acting as a woman scorned. Far more likely she just wanted a hefty severance check.
Cain is not my choice but this harassment issue looks like 200-proof, uncut BS. Totally predictable, though; and they have a whole 12 months yet to gin up more.


30 posted on 11/01/2011 8:47:37 AM PDT by Lady Lucky (Time to hit the reset button on the American experiment.)
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To: BagCamAddict
Women can be extremely vicious

Who knew?

50 million dead American babies later


31 posted on 11/01/2011 8:53:10 AM PDT by wardaddy (Ethnonationalist...I'll cop to that.)
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To: SeekAndFind
Not so fast. Cain is done ONLY IF his current supporters abandon him in droves because of this so-called 15 year old no-real-victim incident.

See, this is what I think a lot of people on our side don't get: it is not necessary for Cain's supporters to abandon him for Cain to not be the nominee. The GOP nomination is not controlled directly by primary votes, but by delegates. Delegates are persuadable. If the GOP establishment, who fear and respect the media, come to believe that Cain is a marked man, they will ensure he is not the nominee.

The media/government complex controls all now. They took down Sarah Palin; Cain will be quick work.

32 posted on 11/01/2011 9:10:03 AM PDT by backwoods-engineer (Any politician who holds that the state accords rights is an oathbreaker and an "enemy... domestic.")
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To: No!
All I can say about this is I sure wish Sarah ran. Her smears are much more interesting.

Palin was my candidate, too, but the media/government complex destroyed her. If anybody thinks that doing a guest spot on Fox News from her backyard once in awhile gives her any power or influence, well, they need to think again. The media/government complex told her in so many ways that if she ran, her very life and her family's would be in peril. Yes, literally. Yes, they would do it, too. And Sarah knew it, which is why she didn't run.

In short, the media/government complex is triumphant once again, and more liberty is lost.

33 posted on 11/01/2011 9:14:12 AM PDT by backwoods-engineer (Any politician who holds that the state accords rights is an oathbreaker and an "enemy... domestic.")
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To: bcsco
I might walk the yard with a cigar in honor of both you and Mark

Oh, please do! If you can also drink whiskey and hold a fun, that will be perfect!

34 posted on 11/01/2011 10:03:03 AM PDT by Tax-chick (I'm sure your dog likes you.)
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To: Tax-chick

Hold a gun, I mean. Or hold a fan, I suppose, although I’m not sure of the symbolism ...


35 posted on 11/01/2011 10:05:49 AM PDT by Tax-chick (I'm sure your dog likes you.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Excellent, excellent article!


36 posted on 11/01/2011 10:08:03 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Tax-chick

Well, it probably won’t be until Thursday, too much to do between now and then; update a couple websites, get a monthly newsletter published, but I’ll do it. Not sure I want to know what you mean by ‘hold a fun’ but I’ll consider the bourbon. Will Beam Devil’s Cut do?


37 posted on 11/01/2011 10:08:52 AM PDT by bcsco (A vote for Cain will cure the Pain!)
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To: bcsco

A gun. And it would be great if you enjoyed a good bourbon on my behalf, although I can’t speak for Mark. He probably wants his own.


38 posted on 11/01/2011 10:15:28 AM PDT by Tax-chick (I'm sure your dog likes you.)
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To: backwoods-engineer; SeekAndFind
Not so fast is right.

Iowans oddly unmoved by vague, 12-year-old allegations about Cain (unimpressed with Politico)

Herman Cain has largest online fundraising day - after Big Media hit piece comes out

So far, so good...

39 posted on 11/01/2011 10:16:41 AM PDT by bcsco (A vote for Cain will cure the Pain!)
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To: Tax-chick

Well, I have guns but walking with one in my yard, in the middle of town, would get a call from the police. I’ll pass on that. But I’ll clean them before I go out...


40 posted on 11/01/2011 10:18:15 AM PDT by bcsco (A vote for Cain will cure the Pain!)
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To: SeekAndFind; backwoods-engineer

>>Cain is done ONLY IF his current supporters abandon him in droves because of this so-called 15 year old no-real-victim incident.

I see people here energized and pissed off by this, and sending in money to Cain. Cain himself said yesterday’s receipts doubled.

I should send him more; I already anted up about a month ago reasonably nicely.


41 posted on 11/01/2011 10:30:28 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: SeekAndFind
Women don't lie about sexual harassment? Read Genesis Chapter 39.

11 But it happened about this time, when Joseph went into the house to do his work, and none of the men of the house was inside, 12 that she caught him by his garment, saying, “Lie with me.” But he left his garment in her hand, and fled and ran outside. 13 And so it was, when she saw that he had left his garment in her hand and fled outside, 14 that she called to the men of her house and spoke to them, saying, “See, he has brought in to us a Hebrew to mock us. He came in to me to lie with me, and I cried out with a loud voice. 15 And it happened, when he heard that I lifted my voice and cried out, that he left his garment with me, and fled and went outside.”

Thousands of years can go by and there is still nothing new under the sun. Sigh.

42 posted on 11/01/2011 10:39:02 AM PDT by sportutegrl
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To: BagCamAddict
Men are attracted to his business demeanor, leadership, telling-it-like-it-is style, direct, blunt, decisive, etc.

That, and his views on the issues, is what (politically) attracts me to Cain. I am a woman.

Women are used to Politicians who walk the middle ground, who never have a harsh word to say, who beat around the bush (more how women communicate), etc.

I can't stand that sort of politician. I am a very direct communicator - blunt and honest. I do not beat around the bush.

I think this was a sleazy attempt to smear/destroy Mr. Cain. We shall see how effective it is.

43 posted on 11/01/2011 11:08:28 AM PDT by ELS (Vivat Benedictus XVI!)
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To: Tax-chick; Cletus.D.Yokel
The weather promises to get bad these next couple days so I got the web sites updated, then enjoyed a

La Traviata Divino and

two fingers of Devil's Cut over ice.

NICE!

Now, I have to get that newsletter finished while I listen to the Chicago Austin High gang, Jimmy McPartland, Jack Teagarden, Bud Freeman, Pee Wee Russell, Bobby Haggart, Joe Sullivan, Eddie Condon and Gene Krupa. Thanks for the suggestion. What a nice day this has been...

44 posted on 11/01/2011 12:42:35 PM PDT by bcsco (A vote for Cain will cure the Pain!)
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To: bcsco; Anoreth

That looks very worthwhile. My daughter takes a cigar and some whiskey from time to time, although I think the high end of the Jim Beam product is better than her usual consumption.


45 posted on 11/01/2011 1:00:03 PM PDT by Tax-chick (I'm sure your dog likes you.)
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To: Tax-chick

This is the only Beam product I’ve had that I can drink. The others, yuck. My BIL brought me the bottle last month saying it was pretty good. I concur. And at $25-26/bottle (equal to Makers Mark or Wild Turkey 101), it’s priced decently. I made sure my liquor store has it in stock for further “testing”.


46 posted on 11/01/2011 1:06:04 PM PDT by bcsco (A vote for Cain will cure the Pain!)
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To: ELS
I am a very direct communicator - blunt and honest. I do not beat around the bush.

And so you probably have no trouble communicating with Men in the workplace, and you get along with them just fine, and you don't take their ever-present sexual innuendo personally, nor do you find it particularly offensive, as long as they are not vulgar and don't cross certain lines.

You probably also find it more difficult to deal with Women in the workplace, and find their catty and gossipy and inefficient nature to be frustrating and a waste of your time.

Mars / Venus. Most women don't communicate in a direct manner like you do. So most women are a bit taken-aback by someone who communicates the way Cain does. It will take them longer to come around. That's ok -- we have a little time.

47 posted on 11/01/2011 2:25:48 PM PDT by BagCamAddict (Order 15 Herman Cain Yard Signs for $130: https://store.hermancain.com/orderform.asp?pid=20)
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To: Tax-chick

Crown Royal!
Actually, Wild Turkey with ice is my preferred whiskey, but most of the time my friends don’t have that lying around. We drank vodka and Red Bull in Seattle.
Or otherwise some kind of blue-colored dubious beverage that was 18% alcohol, referred to as the ‘Hobo Drink.’

And I once had a real Cuban cigar which my BM1 didn’t want. I didn’t like it that much actually. Dominican cigars are better.


48 posted on 11/01/2011 2:41:51 PM PDT by Anoreth (It's not stupid, it's advanced!)
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To: bcsco; Anoreth

Drink it in good health, to the confusion and ultimate defeat of the enemy!


49 posted on 11/01/2011 2:46:25 PM PDT by Tax-chick (I'm sure your dog likes you.)
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To: Anoreth

Wild Turkey 101 on ice is a fine drink. I also like Elijah Craig, Woodford Reserve or Basil Hayden.

I had a Cuban Cohiba once that was heaven sent. Normally I’ll smoke Montecristo Classics Churchills (when I can afford them), or Hoyo Excaliber maduro No 1. But that CAO La Traviata I had today was very nice as well...


50 posted on 11/01/2011 2:59:55 PM PDT by bcsco (A vote for Cain will cure the Pain!)
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