Skip to comments.Penn State trustees fire football coach Joe Paterno and PSU president Spanier
Posted on 11/09/2011 7:30:27 PM PST by Colofornian
Penn State trustees fired football coach Joe Paterno and university president Graham Spanier (SPAN-yer) amid the growing furor over how the school handled sex abuse allegations against an assistant coach.
The massive shakeup Wednesday night came hours after Paterno announced that he planned to retire at the end of his 46th season.
But the outcry following the arrest of former assistant coach Jerry Sandusky on molestation charges proved too much for the board to ignore.
One key question has been why Paterno and other top school officials didn't go to police in 2002 after being told a graduate assistant saw Sandusky assaulting a boy in a school shower...
(Excerpt) Read more at newser.com ...
We're not only talking "liability" re: civil suits, but pre-empting a loose talker like Paterno from giving even more ammo to those lawyers who will be filing suit.
Paterno was already making statements today about "in hindsight, he wished he had done more" without being able to qualify that for better or worse. I mean what does that mean? My guess is that will probably be Question #1 at every deposition he will attend in the future...and there will be many.
So school mottos are now the guiding principles for investigations into child rape? Is that a good thing?
Anyone who knew - or even had grave suspicions - that any child had been raped and did not immediately go to the police and make sure that the perp was not only removed from any position whereby he could continue his ruination of little boys WAS GUILTY!
There is only one important thing here. Horrible crimes were committed against children. And no one did a damned thing to stop it, for years.
The whole sports thing can go to hell. It means nothing compared to the rapes of little boys. NOTHING.
“Im surprise so many comments more concerned about sports, reputations, and the like. Very surprised.”
Bread and circuses...
And your LIE that “few are condemnging the molester” is an outright lie. Why are you lying?
Not only that, but the hard drive was removed from his laptop, and destroyed so badly that no data could be recovered from it by expert data recovery firms.
This stinks to high heaven.
You can't do an end run around your foundation. What liberty has he lost? The right to work? No. He can beat the job fairs like the 10% of unemployed out there & look for a job...I don't know of any "We won't hire Joe Paterno" companies out there. Do you?
This thread, had you the ability to read, is about one of the Enablers.
That is the topic, yet still (despite the little quip you just tried to make) Sandusky keeps being brought into the discussion in a most unfavorable light.
Literate people are capable of addressing the thread topic when they comment on an article.
Teachers these days, not so much.
Or you are grasping for a straw.
Here’s my two fiat cents on this matter:
*The NCAA must give Penn State the “Death Penalty” immediately and the penalty should be at least three years. All wins this year should be vacated.
*The NCAA must remove Joe Paterno from the record books or at least mention this scandal in the record book next to his name.
(And thank you for replying rationally. The personal insults were starting to get to me LOL. Even a thick-skinned former HS teacher can eventually get their buttons pushed!)
Nine years ago? You haven’t read the grand jury report, have you?
“The fact that the law didn’t bring charges against Sandusky is one of the things that make me feel sympathetic towards the position Paterno found himself in.”
Then you OBVIOUSLY have not spent much time dealing with major, ste-run Universities, outside of the classroom....
A few people even talked.
But ultimately it got swept under the rug for years because of the rush to Saturday, those autumn game days when people funnel MONEY into Happy Valley for the biggest thing in the state. Can’t harm the brand, after all.
Spanier, like many other big-time college Presidents is/was so much like a KING in his domain. No one DARES to question him, and EVERYONE sucks up to him.
His word is law on Campus, and especially in the town around. You dont want to have your biz, or your campaign for local office BLACK-LISTED by the liberals running the school, do you?
Your sister needs a job? We might have something in Administration for her, IF you play along...
This is as much a problem of the Culture that allowed it, as it is the scandal itself.
NO cheers, unfortunately.
I think you misread it... : “A public employees liberty interest can be triggered by a discharge under certain publicly stigmatizing”. He HAS been fired. The circumstances, as you admit, ARE publicly stigmatizing. Therefore, he has ALREADY had his liberty interests raised, just today. He has nothing else to establish, and does not need to try to get any other employment. I’m no labor lawyer, but that’s how I read that passage and apply it to these facts.
NO cheers, unfortunately.
Wow that speaks volumes. I am still zoning in on the attorney. I am sure he was making recommendations to others of what they should and should not do, say and not say. Still would of not stopped me when it comes down to right and wrong.
NO cheers, unfortunately.
Well, yeah...but where does that mean Penn State would fall on a continuum here...especially in light of Rintense's comment @ 118:
"I'm a Michigan State alum. My boss is a U of M alum. And we had a very heated talk today about all this- heated because we were in complete agreement that had this happened at either of our schools, and had been handled as poorly, etc. we'd be protesting every single day on campus and never wear a single school color again. I went a step farther and said I'd chuck my framed diploma at the admin building and tell them to burn in hell. It IS that bad out there."
I mean if the Michigan schools had done this, it sounds like the alumni would be so up in arms that you might have massive protests...Yet @ Penn State, the students were seemingly more concerned with their local cultural god, Joe Paterno, than they were the victims.
Sounds to me like on a continuum, Penn State ranks a LOT closer to your San Francisco State example than on the other end of the continuum, Michigan or Michigan State.
Oh, and btw, there IS another Big 10 university that "outpedophiles" Penn State: Indiana University.
You are willfully blind.
Up the thread you said that “a few children had been hurt and their lives disrupted”.
You think little boys being anally raped is being hurt? Their lives were “disrupted”?
You spent all this time on the thread not criticizing Sandusky, or the obvious coverup, but criticizing those of us who are disgusted and outraged, and also the parents for not being more voluble. There was obviously a huge coverup, a DA “disappeared”, and all the Big Important People were covering up. How were these little families going to fight against a huge coverup machine of Big People with tons of money and power?
You sicken me beyond words.
I’ve had it rammed down my keyboards throat numerous times in this thread already, yes. Please read my subsequent responses. My central point is that the folk around Sandusky are getting attacked when they did not commit his heinous acts, and that their failures to report (particularly McCrearys eye witnessing) primarily took place several years ago. The major dust up today has been entirely about JoPa and the other coaches and admins... And not about Sandusky... And the race to punish them before Sandusky is very telling. Why doesn’t that raise a red flag in your mind?
I gotta go to bed.
People who are angrier at people like US rather than the coverup/enablers are the very reason our country is going to hell.
How many threads are there condemning the fiend who actually raped these little boys?
There are far more threads condemning Paterno.
Why is there more hatred for Paterno than Sandusky on FR?
Rintense, I think you have a tough case to prove here...I mean, 'xplain if you would how even if the Big 10 had known everything about Penn State we've found out this week...how Penn State comes close to the enshrinement of pedophile facilitator Alfred Kinsey @ Indiana University?
I mean if ANY campus has "outpedophiled" Penn State, it was Indiana University in the early 1950s and the cover-ups ever since!!!
Here's an excerpt from that article
Sanitizing child sexual abuse
Kinsey also based his liberal view of child rape on research tabulated in Graph Tables 31-34 in the male volume, which chronicled systematic sexual abuse of boys aged 2 months to 15 years old. Kinsey concluded that the boys, despite violent reactions and crying, enjoyed being manually and orally stimulated by pedophiles. To Kinsey, what most people thought was rape was merely sex play with children, which was essentially harmless, particularly if the child gave consent.10 He also included this chilling observation: Orgasm is in our records for a female babe of 4 months.11 The Kinsey Institute, situated on Indiana Universitys campus, continues to refuse to open the records of the Kinsey child sex data to public scrutiny.
I don't think Penn State will EVER be able to match Indiana University!
Still, taken in tandem, it IS true that the most Eastern portion of the Big 10 is sanctioned pedophile turf!
I’ve appreciated reading your posts and some others on this thread.
Seems many are ignoring the fact that Sandusky committed the homosexual pedophilia, the DA dropped the case against him over a decade ago, that PSU Admin allowed him to continue using Penn State campuses and the Penn State name for his “charity” Second Mile.
Paterno is the scapegoat. The media is trying, convicting, and executing him because he’s the face of Penn State. And because they can. They love doing this. He’s the easy target. The Board of Trustees is covering their own asses and I think it will backfire on them.
The liberal media hates Paterno because of how he ran the football program and how he didn’t suck up to them. They love taking him down.
Paterno isn’t the problem here. He’s just the easy target.
I’m waiting for the media to focus on the core problem, and how PC has allowed our society to ignore the core problem. Heh, I won’t hold my breath. The facfs of Sandusky’s case won’t ever be addressed. The man sexually abused boys....he raped boys. But it’s easier to blame Paterno for doing what he was legally obligated to do rather than address the real issues. JMO
let's give you a hypothetical: an employee comes to you and tell you that his trainee said that he saw another employee doing something horrible in the back room with a child. Do you fire that vile monster immediately? Or do you actually bother to look investigate and see if something really happened first? Also accusations happen all the time. If we start accepting knee-jerk reactions at face value, things like that WILL start happening with greater frequency, and more innocent people, including our grandchildren, will suffer for our lack of foresight. I'm just saying, THINK!!
No it has not.
The major dust up on this thread has been primarily about JoPa and the other coaches and admins...because that is the thread topic for this thread.
You jumped in and tried to wrench the topic of this thread over to just condemning Sandusky, who is the topic of several other threads.
In the process, you have attempted to minimize the severity of the crime and the damage to the victims, and that has quite properly earned you a backlash that is not fading away.
You have a size twelve ego in a size five soul.
I’ve finished reading the report. A synopsis of the timeline, because there are alot of ignorant statements being thrown out.
The victims are in reverse order, i.e., Victim #1 is most recent, Victim #8 oldest.
#1 - Everything was witnessed off campus at a high school by a wrestling and football coach around 2007, complaint filed by mother.
#2 - Witnessed by the grad student in 2002, AFTER Sandusky was retired and was named professor emeritus with full on campus privileges.
#3, #4, #5, and #7 - had no witnesses to sexual conduct. #4 did testify that in May 1999 Sandusky came home distraught that Paterno would not make him head coach. These were all between 1994 and 2000.
#6 - Was reported by the mother and investigation was launched that ended in June 1998 with no charges filed.
#8 - Was witnessed by two janitors one directly and one indirectly, The one who saw it directly was very shaken and reported it to his boss, who told him who to report it to up the chain. The janitor never went any farther with it and now has dementia.
The only part that questions Joe Pa was #6 and the investigation. Not sure what Joe Pa was supposed to do if the police wouldn’t file charges. What he did do is having him out the door within a year after that.
He immediately reported the incident with the grad student but that was AFTER Sundusky retired. Paterno had no authority over him and no authority to deny him access to the campus. Again, that investigation was also stifled.
So there is nothing here about Paterno covering anything up. The most damning was the year it took to get rid of Sandusky and letting him retire instead getting fired. What could you fire him for? The authorities said there was nothing there.
In fact there was no threat of retaliation - when Paterno was approached by the grad student with his story, he took him to the authorities. He basically gave the higher ups implicit authority to boot the guy off campus for good. No cover up due to intimidation by Paterno. This thing lies with Shultz, Curley, the campus police, the in-house attorney, and the DA. Paterno is fairly incidental.
Facts and timeline are tricky things sometimes.
The hatred for Sandusky is implied, there’s no debate about his guilt, so there’s really nothing to talk about....the waters are a bit muddier when it comes to Paterno.
Sandusky is the criminal, Paterno is the PUBLIC FACE of the organization that enabled, and covered up for, the criminal....
Germans are still blamed. You are a bit satanic, due process and all you are still quite duplicitous. You must be a principle here because I find it hard to believe you havent been shown the door.
And if the perp was an assistant who was only with Paterno for a year or two, that’s one thing....but Sandusky was with Paterno at Penn State...FOR THIRTY YEARS!!!
THANK YOU!!! You made half of my points with only 1/100 the words! I needed that. I’m going to bed on that note. You’re my favorite poster for the week now LOL.
Live overhead feed.
And had been running his grooming farm for 22 of those years.
I hate Sandusky more than Paterno, but not much.
If anyone who know about the fiend had done something to stop him years ago, many boys would not have been raped. So anyone who knew and did not stop him shares the guilt. It’s really simple.
On March 1, 2002, a Penn State graduate assistant who was then 28 years old, entered the locker room at the Lasch Football Building on the University Park Campus on a Friday night before the beginning of Spring Break. The graduate assistant, who was familiar with Sandusky, was going to put some newly purchased sneakers in his locker and get some recruiting tapes to watch. It was about 9:30 p.m. As the graduate assistant entered the locker room doors, he was surprised to find the lights and showers on. He then heard rhythmic slapping sounds. He believed the sounds to be those of sexual activity. As the graduate assistant put the sneakers in his locker, he looked in the shower. He saw a naked boy, Victim 2, whose age he estimated to be ten years old, with his hands up against the wall, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky. The graduate assistant was shocked but noticed that both Victim 2 and Sandusky saw him. The graduate assistant left immediately, distraught.
The graduate assistant went to his office and called his father, reporting to him what he had seen. His father told the graduate assistant to leave the building and come to his home. The graduate assistant and his father decided that the graduate assistant had to promptly report what he had seen to Coach Joe Paterno, head football coach of Penn State. The next morning, a Saturday, the graduate assistant telephoned Paterno and went to Paterno's home, where he reported what he had seen.
Joseph V. Paterno testified to receiving the graduate assistant's report at his home on a Saturday morning. Paterno testified that the graduate assistant was very upset. Paterno called Tim Curley, Penn State Athletic Director and Paterno's immediate superior, to his home the very next day, a Sunday, and reported to him that the graduate assistant had seen Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy.
Paterno gets a graphic account of what occurred, then delays for 24 hours before delivering a somewhat milder account of what happened to his AD. Paterno should go to jail for that.
Vaguely?? Yeah he's 84 but is he now trying to change his statement from 2002?
When you're an organization like a tight nit college football team, it would be very hard to keep several rapes of little boys a secret from people in that organization.
My father met several college head coaches in his job over the years... The only one he ever said anything bad about was Paterno— that he thought he would do ANYTHING to win, or OVERLOOK anything to win. My dad died in 2003 so I can't ask him to elaborate and I know it's only one guys feelings but it gave me a shiver when I thought about what he said. And why in Paterno's statement did he say he thanks all the coaches he ever worked with? Really? One is a serial Rapist and others may have covered it up!!!
Joe had to go, because there certainly is enough out there to suggest he didn’t do enough, I will withhold final judgement on his ultimate culpability until I hear more.
But the fact is, given the now circus-like nature of this, he simply could not go on as head coach with all of this swirling around him. In fact, I question if the team should be playing any more games this season, until this mess gets all sorted out.
And do you ever shower with your same-sex pre-pubescent students?
And if you caught a sports coach at your school anally raping a ten year old boy, and nothing efficacious was done to prevent it...
Would you be screaming like mad at whatever cost to yourself to make it stop?
Or secretly trying on a new pedobear outfit?
I suspect that what you are trying to convey is this:
That if guilt by association becomes the trend, we can all be held accountable for any crime within our sphere of contact.
This is indeed a heinous crime. One that is highly emotional. Often laws are enacted on the public emotion. This crime may be used as example for the rest of us to have to prove we are not criminals or associates of criminals. Adding to the list of other already time consuming activities we have in order to prove we are not criminals.
You may want to explain yourself better if this is the case, because no one is listening. You have appeared in several posts to be defending the perps. In this case, the associates are accessories.
To loosely borrow a line from South Park, “Dude, he had sex with children.”
That Doesn't change the fact that the PSU guys who were NOT raping children seem to be getting attacked disproportionately today, both here and on TV. May I discuss that, please kind sir?
Added to that is police found on his home PC searches on how to destroy info on hard drives...
Can you say "lavender Mafia"...?
NO cheers, unfortunately.