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Penn State's Joe Paterno gets what he deserves
SF Chronicle ^ | Nov. 10, 2011 | Scott Ostler

Posted on 11/10/2011 1:31:44 PM PST by Colofornian

Edited on 11/10/2011 1:42:30 PM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]

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To: Scoutmaster
I know you're not an attorney, but do you realize that under this hearsay piffle you've been posting on every thread,

Link to a previous post in which I mentioned hearsay.

151 posted on 11/10/2011 7:21:58 PM PST by Tribune7 (If you demand perfection you will wind up with leftist Democrats)
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To: skeeter
I believe, however, that our ire should be directed at the man who actually perpetrated these atrocities.

Oh. I have plenty of ire for Sanduksy. He is the most culpable. But ire is not something that is limited. I've saved some ire for the enablers. For whatever reason, McQueary has been given a pass. The man made eye contact with a preteen boy who was being raped, and walked away. As an attorney, I can read the Grand Jury presentment and the Grand Jury report and tell that there was an attempt to give Joe Paterno a pass. We already know about Schultz, Curley, and Spanier. And the attorney for Penn State who reviewed the 1998 "shower" file and then went on to The Second Mile. And before this is over, we'll know other names, I'm afraid.

Just as ire is not limited my compassion is not limited. When I pause, I'm not filed with hatred for Sandusky or Paterno or McQueary. I'm filled with emptiness and sorrow for unnamed and unnumbered boys.

152 posted on 11/10/2011 7:24:27 PM PST by Scoutmaster (I stand for something; therefore, I can't stand Romney)
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To: Scoutmaster

As an attorney I would think you’d be more inclined to wait for all the pertinent facts to come in before drawing conclusions about individual culpability.


153 posted on 11/10/2011 7:28:33 PM PST by skeeter
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To: ClearBlueSky
Ok- I finally understand now.

No, you clearly don't understand.

Saying someone KNOWS someone has raped someone and PROTECTS THEM FOR YEARS, when the someone probably doesn't know that someone has raped someone, and has appeared to have never protected him, is wrong. You shouldn't do it.

FYI, the University of Pennsylvania and Pennsylvania State University are different schools

154 posted on 11/10/2011 7:28:33 PM PST by Tribune7 (If you demand perfection you will wind up with leftist Democrats)
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To: skeeter
As an attorney I would think you’d be more inclined to wait for all the pertinent facts to come in before drawing conclusions about individual culpability.

Heck, forget pertinent facts. Please . . . use your imagination. Create a scenario that justifies the facts in the Grand Jury findings; even Joe Paterno's testimony?

I'll consider them.

Are you wearing a home or away Penn State jersey as you type these things?

155 posted on 11/10/2011 7:38:47 PM PST by Scoutmaster (I stand for something; therefore, I can't stand Romney)
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To: Scoutmaster
No, I'm not a Penn State fan.

I just try to avoid the herd mentality and think for myself.

156 posted on 11/10/2011 7:41:58 PM PST by skeeter
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To: NewinTexsas
BS! H. Staff may also submit their own report of known or suspected incidents of child abuse or neglect to the Indiana Department of Child Protective Services by calling 1-800-800-5556. I. Staff shall report know or suspected incidents of child abuse or neglect directly to the Indiana Child Protective Services when there is reason to believe that the incident of child abuse or neglect was not adequately reported.

THE INDIANA DEPARTMENT OF CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES IS NOT AN OUTSIDE AGENCY as would be the local police, sheriffs dept, etc. Everything was to be handled within the auspiced of the Indiana Dopt of Correction.....I have no problem with that, it roots out those who would accuse someone they didn't like. Even the kids in the juvenile system could call that 800 number if they had this type of problem. If an investigation was held concerning leaked information, the staff was also prohibited from issueing statements to the press or anyone else.

157 posted on 11/10/2011 7:44:35 PM PST by terycarl (lurking, but well informed)
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To: Scoutmaster
Are you wearing a home or away Penn State jersey as you type these things?

Why do feel obliged to post these stupid and insulting things to people who disagree with you?

158 posted on 11/10/2011 7:45:26 PM PST by Tribune7 (If you demand perfection you will wind up with leftist Democrats)
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To: skeeter; Scoutmaster
As an attorney I would think you’d be more inclined to wait for all the pertinent facts to come in before drawing conclusions about individual culpability.

For some reason...which I don't know for the life of me...you have seemed to pre-conclude that facts derived from actual testimony made before a Grand Jury aren't "facts."

If you would but bother to look at the Grand Jury Presentment you would only have to skip past a one-paragraph "Introduction" before coming to the section headlined, "Findings of Fact."

A Grand Jury's role includes determining if there is enough individual culpability to move forward toward indicting him or her. Otherwise, why bother having people testify under oath?

Some people, like Joe Paterno, upon testifying -- leave no doubt as to their sins of omission -- their moral and unethical culpability. They may be able to cover their legal butt to avoid jail time...
...all the while provoking a public verdict that wishes there was a greater punishment somewhere between losing-your-job and jail time to inflict upon you...
...as recompense for the pain and degradation these coaches enabled in their community.

How many homosexuals will this generate due to moral lapses from people who have rec'd Penn State paychecks in the past/present?

Joe Paterno was an degradating enabler. Get over it.

159 posted on 11/10/2011 7:50:15 PM PST by Colofornian (The Perv State KNitKinsey Lionizers: The campus which most now love to loathe!)
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To: Colofornian
You're the wordiest poster on this thread. Yet after all the text you posted I learned absolutely nothing new about this case from you.

I'm done with this thread.

160 posted on 11/10/2011 7:55:03 PM PST by skeeter
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To: Tribune7
you don't even know if McQueary even told Paterno the boy was raped

No. I don't. Early on Monday I posted that the GJ documents are careful not to tell us what McQueary said he told Paterno.

In my profession, I read a document at least twice. Once to see what is in it, and once to see what is missing.

In this case, i noticed that the presentment and the findings are careful never to tell use what McQueary said he told Paterno. The are just as careful never to tell use whether Paterno knew about or so the 1998 'showering" investigation file.

IF this is your first post on hearsay, then please accept my sincere apology. i have you confused with somebody else who keeps saying that Paterno could not report this because it was (in their mind) hearsay. However, they obviously do not understand the definition of hearsay, and they ignore the Pennsylvania Statute requiring the reporting of second-hand reports of child molestation when a teacher or coach had knowledge of a creditable claim.

Again, my apology.

161 posted on 11/10/2011 8:15:34 PM PST by Scoutmaster (I stand for something; therefore, I can't stand Romney)
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To: Colofornian; Scoutmaster

Look, it just takes a little time to even learn the story. I thought all this happened this weekend. The eye witness report to Paterno, who reported it to the VP and athletic director, I thought all that happened very recently, as in like this week. I get it now. This story broke in the middle of the week. We were getting pieces here and there, on the run, and that’s probably why some of us found ourselves on the wrong side of the issue for a time. Heck,
I just learned Paterno has hired a criminal attorney.

I didn’t know that back in January, 2011, Paterno spoke to the Grand Jury. Scoutmaster, thanks for the history on it for me and for others.


162 posted on 11/10/2011 9:33:02 PM PST by RitaOK (Texas. Exhibit A for Rick, who needs to pound the fiction flackers back into the Stone Age.)
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To: Colofornian

That’s great, and I don’t think anyone disagrees that JoePa had serious moral and ethical lapses by letting things continue unchallenged after 2002. Everyone is allowed from here forward to excoriate and write scathing polemics ad infinitum with pious indignation, high pontification, and extreme prejudice till they feel all warm and fuzzy inside and can walk away on the righteous high road.

But that’s not good enough for me dude. JoePa is gone. Fired. Disgraced, his reputation destroyed to the grave as the dirtiest SOB from all of Satan’s spawn. He’s probably open to a lawsuit but his butt is criminally covered. There isn’t more flesh we can really take from him. I’m not interested in moral indignation, I want justice and ALL those involved in this cover up jailed.

Mike Madden said long before his broke that this is a sex ring for the rich and powerful. If that is true the JoePa is a bit player in all this, and if we keep putting the spotlight on him so that we can feel all righteous, then the true evildoers are going to scurry away into the darkness TO CONTINUE THEIR EVIL FILTH.

Everyone needs to quit feeding off their emotions and think about the kids and the fact that they deserve to get the crimes against them avenged, as well as stopping future ones.


163 posted on 11/10/2011 9:41:21 PM PST by Free Vulcan (Vote Republican! You can vote Democrat when you're dead.)
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To: skeeter

Because Paterno did nothing, Sandusky continued to rape, so Paterno is complicit in any more rapes committed by Sandusky.

Plus, until all the truth comes out or at least more of it, there is no knowing how far the homo child rape ring extended.


164 posted on 11/10/2011 10:13:21 PM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell.)
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To: Free Vulcan
Everyone is allowed from here forward to excoriate and write scathing polemics ad infinitum with pious indignation, high pontification, and extreme prejudice till they feel all warm and fuzzy inside and can walk away on the righteous high road. But that’s not good enough for me dude. JoePa is gone. Fired. Disgraced, his reputation destroyed to the grave as the dirtiest SOB from all of Satan’s spawn. He’s probably open to a lawsuit but his butt is criminally covered. There isn’t more flesh we can really take from him. I’m not interested in moral indignation, I want justice and ALL those involved in this cover up jailed. ...JoePa is a bit player in all this, and if we keep putting the spotlight on him so that we can feel all righteous...Everyone needs to quit feeding off their emotions and think about the kids and the fact that they deserve to get the crimes against them avenged, as well as stopping future ones.

Two posts on responding to your comments: Post 1 -

Let's see. Where have I heard that accusation of essential self-righteous commentators? Oh, yeah...Scott Ostler -- the very journalist who wrote column upon which this thread is based:

He wrote: To Paterno's supporters, those of us who called for and then praised his firing are a braying mob of self-righteous haters using vague information to ruin a good man. I can live with that.

Glad to know you've joined -- in a strange sort of way -- the chorus of Penn State Paterno defenders hurling invectives of self-righteousness upon critics of the Penn State program.

In fact, thinking about Ostler's column overall...
...May I invite you to re-read that 5th graph from the end...but all of the last 5 graphs?...or perhaps you only looked @ the headline & lead graph...?

Here's the final 4 Ostler graphs after the one cited above:

Several e-mailers demand, "Have you ever heard of due process?"

The due process I've heard of involves a justice system and a legal trial. Paterno faces no legal action or charge. Legally, his rear end is covered.

But there was no trial when Paterno was sainted, no jury declared him one of the noblest and finest college coaches of all time. The public decided.

It's the same deal on the flip side. We'll take the facts and form them into our personal legacy of Joe Paterno.

Now why is this all relevant to your post?

Why? Because this columnist pointed out how Penn Staters confused the legal verdict ("due process") with the public verdict on Paterno's character -- and lack of it.

You've kind of done of same thing with your own excoriation of FREEPER posters.

This week on threads, we've largely been addressing the public sentiment. Most of us aren't a bunch of attorneys or legal cheerleaders!

And perhaps you underestimate such public sentiment. Do you or do you NOT recognize that at 46 career-years strong, Paterno had the most solid lock on dictating retirement terms of ANY coach in this country. He was a State College "god." As late as Tuesday, he thought even in the midst of this crisis that he could dictate terms to the Board of Trustees.

Do you know how much pressure had to be brought to bear to remind Paterno that "No, you're not in charge here!??"

As for the legal realities, come on, FV. They roll on ever so slowly. It's taken 3 YEARS of investigation just to get to this point re: Sandusky, Curley & Schultz! And that was after 6 YEARS of uncracked silence just to give them a proper investigative jumpstart!

And you somehow think that your rah-rah post is going to somehow speed along justice & vengeance for these kid-victims?

165 posted on 11/10/2011 11:59:41 PM PST by Colofornian (The Perv State KNitKinsey Lionizers: The campus which most now love to loathe!)
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To: Colofornian; RitaOK
He was actually citing p. 7 of the Grand Jury presentment as to how Paterno testified as to what McQueary told him.

This is what the author wrote: "Even if McQueary, then a graduate assistant, gave Paterno only a vague description of the shower incident (and why in the world would Paterno not demand details?)..."

This is what I don't like about the article. The Grand Jury transcript says that Paterno reported to Curley that McQueary had seen Sandusky "fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy." Why doesn't the author quote what the transcript actually said? The grand jury transcript proves that Paterno knew that a witness identified Sandusky as a molester of a very young minor.

I agree with the author's conclusions about Paterno (....the report should have raised in Paterno a reasonable suspicion that Sandusky was a dangerous criminal.), but he presented his evidence in a ham-fisted way, suggesting that what McQueary's father told Paterno may have been dubious. I had to read the grand jury transcript to find out what really happened.

166 posted on 11/11/2011 12:03:09 AM PST by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Budget sins can be fixed. Amnesty is irreversible.)
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To: Colofornian

The more these delusional Paterno fans shill for him, the more I suspect Paterno and his fans of being themselves pederasts.

Western Civilization is a result of the pagan culture of Greece and Rome constrained by Biblical morality. Downplay Biblical morality and you get pederasty such as was common practice in ancient Greece: Mentors were expected to sodomize their students. That’s where we’re going. Guaranteed.


167 posted on 11/11/2011 12:11:18 AM PST by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: Free Vulcan
Your comment: ...I want justice and ALL those involved in this cover up jailed. Mike Madden said long before his broke that this is a sex ring for the rich and powerful. If that is true the JoePa is a bit player in all this, and if we keep putting the spotlight on him so that we can feel all righteous, then the true evildoers are going to scurry away into the darkness TO CONTINUE THEIR EVIL FILTH. Everyone needs to quit feeding off their emotions and think about the kids and the fact that they deserve to get the crimes against them avenged, as well as stopping future ones.

Still...even with my previous critique to your last post...this part does make sense to some degree -- especially the highlighted part.

The Mark Madden route you mentioned provides a route where we hope to get to the bottom of all of this...I posted this thread on that this a.m.:
New Jerry Sandusky Rumor Threatens To Make Penn State Scandal Much Worse

And tried posting this one, too...only to realize someone else beat me to it: Jerry Sandusky Rumored to Have Been 'Pimping Out Young Boys to Rich Donors,' Says Mark Madden

Madden said on the radio Thursday a.m. that a few seasoned journalists were investigating that angle as he spoke. That's what it will take there: Investigative journalism coupled with criminal and civil investigators smoking all that out.

But legal cheerleaders and journalist cheerleaders isn't going to do much more good that what you critiqued us for in this post.

I suppose I could write something to the effect of using your almost-exact words below...changing only the underlined portions:

"Everyone is allowed from here forward to excoriate and write scathing polemics ad infinitum with pious indignation, high pontification, and extreme prejudice that they want 'justice and vengeance for the kids' till they feel all warm and fuzzy inside and can walk away on the righteous high road. But that’s not good enough for me dude...legal indignation about 'justice and veangeance isn't enough...if we keep putting the spotlight on Sandusky we might miss discerning a broader pedophile ring...plus we risk feel[ing] all street righteous once they're in jail and we're not..."

Anyway...my point is that I'm not sure how your posts really speed along the prosecutions -- just like you're not sure how our posts have sped along pressure upon the Board of Trustees to do what's "right" accountability-wise.

168 posted on 11/11/2011 12:14:34 AM PST by Colofornian (The Perv State KNitKinsey Lionizers: The campus which most now love to loathe!)
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; Free Vulcan
Well, I'm sure Ostler could have fine-tuned his column a little better.

But please don't make the same mistake so many Penn State fans & some FREEPER posters make...the mistake I covered in post #101.

Essentially they engage in reverse telescoping by concluding the ONLY communication possible and worth recounting was the one McQueary had with Paterno that first Saturday, March 2002.

Yes, legally, that was the convo to highlight. But too many assume that the goal there was simply to protect Paterno's legal butt.

And what a sorry assumption that is. It totally undermines Free Vulcan's reminder for people to "think about the kids and the fact that they deserve to get the crimes against them avenged, as well as stopping future ones."

The 2002 and 2003 Paterno "goal" as it applied to these kid-victims SHOULD have been to protect those victims from future crimes and get them as much therapeutic help as possible!

Why little wonderment from the Paterno-ville crowd as to why...
...(a) Paterno didn't initiate additional convos with eyewitness McQueary to clarify what he saw that night?
...and (b) more importantly, why no directives from Boss Paterno to McQueary, who at some point became his underling as Wide Receivers coach, to go see authorities once they found out their admins stonewalled any investigation?

Why do I see journalists generically raise these questions, yet Paterno-ville residents/students seem locked in a time-warp going back to that ONE weekend in early March? What? No kids could have been "saved" by December '02? Or Jan 03? Or Feb 03? Or anytime '03?

And I'm afraid the sorry-ass answer to these last questions is because the REAL goal of Paterno's defenders is only to defend Paterno -- and NOT serve as advocates for these boy-victims!

If these boys have no voices, then I'm sure as heaven going to keep raising my voice on their behalf!!!

169 posted on 11/11/2011 12:30:06 AM PST by Colofornian (The Perv State KNitKinsey Lionizers: The campus which most now love to loathe!)
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To: Scoutmaster

Apology accepted.


170 posted on 11/11/2011 5:44:34 AM PST by Tribune7 (If you demand perfection you will wind up with leftist Democrats)
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To: skeeter
I hate someone who takes all the glory, makes it all about himself, when things go right, but becomes just another cog in the bureaucratic machine who "followed procedure" when things go wrong. That's the absolute opposite of leadership, and, to me, it's the craven, feckless response NOW to these things becoming public that is most unseemly about Paterno.

And if he didn't know something in this case, it's because he didn't want to know.

171 posted on 11/11/2011 6:02:56 AM PST by Trailerpark Badass
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To: skeeter
No. Interpret that any way you like.

I interpret it that you can not stand up and answer the question like a man. You demean us for saying that Joe should not be coaching but you won't even state your position.

172 posted on 11/11/2011 6:53:34 AM PST by NewinTexsas
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To: Tribune7
You seem to really, really want to believe the worst but you don't even know if McQueary even told Paterno the boy was raped.

He at least told Joe that there was 'something sexual' going on in Joe's showers with Sandusky and a little boy at 9:30 at night. Are you implying that was 'no big deal' for Joe to be concerned about? Maybe in your world ...

173 posted on 11/11/2011 6:55:36 AM PST by NewinTexsas
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To: Tribune7
The act that brought Sandusky down occurred off campus.

Of course. Joe and the university had the power to keep the on-campus acts quiet!

174 posted on 11/11/2011 6:56:57 AM PST by NewinTexsas
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To: Scoutmaster; Colofornian; RitaOK
In this case, i noticed that the presentment and the findings are careful never to tell use what McQueary said he told Paterno. The are just as careful never to tell use whether Paterno knew about or so the 1998 'showering" investigation file.

But the GJ transcript does tell us that Paterno reported to the university that McQueary identified Sandusky as the man he saw committing a monstrous crime against a little boy. It's possible that Paterno knew more than that, but in my view, that in itself morally compelled Paterno to make sure somebody reported it to the police.

175 posted on 11/11/2011 7:00:45 AM PST by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Budget sins can be fixed. Amnesty is irreversible.)
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To: terycarl
THE INDIANA DEPARTMENT OF CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES IS NOT AN OUTSIDE AGENCY

Sorry. Indiana DOC SPECIFCALLY lists them as an EXTERNAL agency.

176 posted on 11/11/2011 7:02:40 AM PST by NewinTexsas
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To: NewinTexsas
I've stated my position on the relevant parts of this case. If you disagree I recommend a remedial reading course at your nearest JC.

As to your question about Paterno continuing to coach, I believe it would be less manly were I to hurry to answer your question simply because you demand it. You have no standing to ask.

177 posted on 11/11/2011 7:23:51 AM PST by skeeter
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To: skeeter
I've stated my position on the relevant parts of this case. If you disagree I recommend a remedial reading course at your nearest JC.

Did you see Barry Switzer's interview? He said that all the coaches at PSU had to know. It was inconcievable that they wouldn't have known. And Barry is an old friend of Joe's.

As to your question about Paterno continuing to coach, I believe it would be less manly were I to hurry to answer your question simply because you demand it. You have no standing to ask.

You have no leg to stand on criticising others for wanting Joe out if you also think he should not be coaching.

178 posted on 11/11/2011 7:47:12 AM PST by NewinTexsas
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To: NewinTexsas
Are you implying that was 'no big deal' for Joe to be concerned about?

You are implying that Paterno was not concerned about it.

It's starting to look like he was. He informed the people who were responsible for Sandusky who you can't quite seem to fathom did not report to Paterno; and it appears he got a report that they investigated and that THEY found it to be no big deal, although they put new restrictions on Sandusky regarding his use of the facilities.

These restrictions do appear to have kept Sandusky from using the facilities for molestation but for some strange reason you keep insisting otherwise.

179 posted on 11/11/2011 7:47:44 AM PST by Tribune7 (If you demand perfection you will wind up with leftist Democrats)
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To: NewinTexsas
Of course. Joe and the university had the power to keep the on-campus acts quiet!

You are babbling (as you've been for a while)

180 posted on 11/11/2011 7:50:11 AM PST by Tribune7 (If you demand perfection you will wind up with leftist Democrats)
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To: Tribune7
The act that brought Sandusky down occurred off campus.

Of course. Joe and the university had the power to keep the on-campus acts quiet!

You are babbling (as you've been for a while)

At least Perry admitted that he had 'stepped in it'.

181 posted on 11/11/2011 7:53:14 AM PST by NewinTexsas
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To: Tribune7
Are you implying that was 'no big deal' for Joe to be concerned about?

You are implying that Paterno was not concerned about it.

No. I was asking you if you were implying that it was 'no big deal' to Joe.

182 posted on 11/11/2011 7:55:22 AM PST by NewinTexsas
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To: Tribune7

Did Paterno ever go up to his colleague, that he spent 30 YEARS with, and confront him about it?


183 posted on 11/11/2011 7:57:23 AM PST by dfwgator (I stand with Herman Cain.)
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To: Tribune7
although they put new restrictions on Sandusky regarding his use of the facilities.

Which they said was not enforced. They allowed him to use the facilities till the DAY the indictments were announced even though everyone in College State knew about the years long investigation! They just told McQueary that so he would go away. Don't you realize how cover-ups are arranged?

184 posted on 11/11/2011 7:57:45 AM PST by NewinTexsas
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To: dfwgator; Tribune7
Did Paterno ever go up to his colleague, that he spent 30 YEARS with, and confront him about it?

Sandusky retired in the summer of 1999 (presumably being forced out due to the 1998 investigation which EVERYONE knew about).

1. Paterno kept him on as his Defensive Coordinator for the next season.

2. Paterno watched as multiple organizations heaped award after award upon Sandusky.

3. Paterno watched as the players carried Sandusky off the field.

4. Paterno stated that Sandusky's departure was like having your son walk out the door.

185 posted on 11/11/2011 8:01:55 AM PST by NewinTexsas
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To: dfwgator
Did Paterno ever go up to his colleague, that he spent 30 YEARS with, and confront him about it?

He appears to have done that with the '98 case -- which police did investigate.

By 2002, Sandusky wasn't his colleague and probably not his friend. The person who should have approached Sandusky was the A.D.

186 posted on 11/11/2011 8:02:58 AM PST by Tribune7 (If you demand perfection you will wind up with leftist Democrats)
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To: Tribune7

I’m sorry, but if JoePa said “Jump”, everybody in State College would say, “How High?”


187 posted on 11/11/2011 8:04:51 AM PST by dfwgator (I stand with Herman Cain.)
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To: Colofornian

And what do you think your ongoing rah-rah primal screams of righteous rage of Paterno are going to accomplish? What do you possibly wish to extract from either Paterno or the situation? He’s gone, he’s disgraced, his legacy is destroyed, and he’s likely open to lawsuits. He’s pretty much done as done can get. I think my focus of finding the rest of the rats is going to have alot more effect than beating a dead horse.

You seriously need to get off Paterno and move on. There is nothing tactically and strategically to be gained by sitting there and continuing to rant and vomit rivers or moral indignation at him. It’s a complete waste of time and uses energy and spotlight that should be focused on the others involved in this, some of whom may still be abusing kids as we speak.

I really don’t get the whole ‘public sentiment’ and ‘trial in the court of public opinion’ crap. It accomplishes nothing but feed some people’s obsessive-compulsive desire to pontificate righteous moral outrage. So wow, you’ve brought the holy symbol of Saint Joe crashing to the ground and destroyed it forever. How does that get justice for the kids against the people that abused and still may be abusing them? It doesn’t.

I care about justice. If there is a sex ring, all that energy focusing on Paterno needs to be turned to demanding it be investigated, and if true those people prosecuted and jailed. I really don’t understand why that keeps being avoided and deflected her and the spotlight being brought back to Joe, when nothing else can be accomplished with that.

Starting to seriously wonder if there are some on this board who deliberately want to keep the focus on Joe forever so the public gaze doesn’t demand and possibly expose the depth of what may be going on at PSU to protect those who also may be guilty. I’m beginning to think JimRob needs to clean some serious house around here.


188 posted on 11/11/2011 8:09:21 AM PST by Free Vulcan (Vote Republican! You can vote Democrat when you're dead.)
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To: NewinTexsas
You know police investigated the '98 matter right? Were charges levied?

When did Sandusky's contract end?

189 posted on 11/11/2011 8:12:45 AM PST by Tribune7 (If you demand perfection you will wind up with leftist Democrats)
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To: NewinTexsas
Don't you realize how cover-ups are arranged?

Don't you realize how paranoia starts?

190 posted on 11/11/2011 8:14:05 AM PST by Tribune7 (If you demand perfection you will wind up with leftist Democrats)
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To: Tribune7
Don't you realize how paranoia starts?

It starts when you're always afraid. You step out of line, the man come and take you away.

191 posted on 11/11/2011 8:15:03 AM PST by dfwgator (I stand with Herman Cain.)
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To: Tribune7; dfwgator
He appears to have done that with the '98 case -- which police did investigate.

Your attempts at rewriting history are getting more pathetic. At least now you are admitting that Joe knew of the 1998 incident and Joe kept him on his staff after the incident and even kept him on his staff after Sandusky retired referring to Sandusky's departure at his last game as 'like a son'.

192 posted on 11/11/2011 8:15:40 AM PST by NewinTexsas
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To: dfwgator
I don't believe that. Paterno might have been the most popular guy on campus but the real power was Spanier.
193 posted on 11/11/2011 8:16:11 AM PST by Tribune7 (If you demand perfection you will wind up with leftist Democrats)
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To: Tribune7

Spanier wanted to let Joe go. If he was more powerful than Joe, Joe would have been gone a long time ago, especially when Penn State sucked in the early 00’s.


194 posted on 11/11/2011 8:17:33 AM PST by dfwgator (I stand with Herman Cain.)
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To: Tribune7
You know police investigated the '98 matter right? Were charges levied?

There is a child services report and a police report. It was reviewed by the PSU and Second Mile attorney.

When did Sandusky's contract end?

As I said before. He retired in the summer of 1999 about a YEAR after the 1998 event. Joe kept him on for a YEAR knowing he was a child molester.

Joe kept him on for the season AFTER his retirement knowing he was a child molester.

Joe referred to him as 'like a son' months after his retirement.

195 posted on 11/11/2011 8:19:02 AM PST by NewinTexsas
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To: Tribune7
I don't believe that. Paterno might have been the most popular guy on campus but the real power was Spanier.

Not according to Joe.

196 posted on 11/11/2011 8:20:00 AM PST by NewinTexsas
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To: NewinTexsas
Me: He appears to have done that with the '98 case -- which police did investigate.

You: Your attempts at rewriting history are getting more pathetic.

So, police did not investigate the '98 case? Paterno did not, controversially and unexpectedly, decline to renew Sandusky's contract?

It's not me trying to deny history.

referring to Sandusky's departure at his last game as 'like a son'.

And that means what exactly?

197 posted on 11/11/2011 8:21:34 AM PST by Tribune7 (If you demand perfection you will wind up with leftist Democrats)
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To: NewinTexsas

You are seriously, desperately trying to concoct this ‘conspiracy of Joe Paterno’ with dramatic broad brushes of speculation and desperate reaching.

It MAY have gone down like that, but at this point we have very little evidence that it DID go down like that. I will concede that Paterno should have followed up after the 2002 incident, but you act as if that because Paterno didn’t move heaven and earth to impale Sandusky on a spike in the public square that old Joe was the hub of some deep dark conspiracy.

Joe was a moral coward. No one disputes that. After the bar he set, he had every right to get booted out on his butt. But the willful conspiracy thing? You need to look at Curley, Schultz, Spanier, Waddell, the DA, the police, and possibly many many others and focus your outrage there. Until I hear and see more evidence, the Great Joe Paterno Deep Dark Pedophile Conspiracy is a bunch of delusion on people’s mind.

You all need to get your eyes of Paterno and start focusing on this very possible sex ring that Mark Madden was talking about. The obsessive fixation on Paterno is not going to help bring even one of the possible perps to justice.


198 posted on 11/11/2011 8:22:05 AM PST by Free Vulcan (Vote Republican! You can vote Democrat when you're dead.)
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To: Free Vulcan; Tribune7
You seriously need to get off Paterno and move on. There is nothing tactically and strategically to be gained by sitting there and continuing to rant and vomit rivers or moral indignation at him. It’s a complete waste of time and uses energy and spotlight that should be focused on the others involved in this, some of whom may still be abusing kids as we speak.

You do realize that we can't 'get off Paterno' as long as you keep posting BS. Most of these posts you so detest are in reponse to the BS that you and Tribune7 keep posting.

199 posted on 11/11/2011 8:22:15 AM PST by NewinTexsas
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To: Free Vulcan
You all need to get your eyes of Paterno and start focusing on this very possible sex ring that Mark Madden was talking about. The obsessive fixation on Paterno is not going to help bring even one of the possible perps to justice.

We are. We just keep getting redirected to Joe by posters like you that keep posting pathetic BS about Joe. Joe knew. Move on.

200 posted on 11/11/2011 8:23:58 AM PST by NewinTexsas
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