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(Marine) Ex-cop boots OWS heckler from congressman's swearing-in
NY Post ^ | November 14, 2011 | FRANK ROSARIO, DOUG AUER and BOB FREDERICKS

Posted on 11/14/2011 3:44:15 AM PST by lowbridge

Meet New York’s newest hero.

Kevin Hiltunen, a former NYPD officer, yesterday grabbed an Occupy Wall Street demonstrator by the collar and dragged him out of a Queens school where he’d been heckling US Rep. Bob Turner at the congressman’s swearing-in ceremony.

“I guess you could say I sorted him out,” said Hiltunen, 48, his jacket and tie barely mussed after dragging the scruffy protester out on his rear end.

“All I was doing was trying to stop this historic occasion from being disrupt-ed. There is a time and place to exercise your First Amendment rights,’’ said Hiltunen, of Bergen Beach, Brooklyn, who was identified by people at the ceremony as an ex-Marine.

“This was not the time or the venue,” Hiltunen added.

(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: New York
KEYWORDS: donutwatch; occupywallstreet; ows
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To: freedomfiter2
The dragee wasn't even spouting out typical Marxist nonsense but an objection that some conservatives of a certain mindset can endorse. According to the NY1 webset his protest was:

"Bob Turner has sold out Queens and Brooklyn voters by voting for the [South] Korea, Colombia and Panama free-trade agreements which will outsource 219,000 U.S. jobs to sweatshops,"

That may be a sentiment that his harmful economically, but it is certainly not Marxist, anti-American drivel.

51 posted on 11/14/2011 5:26:47 AM PST by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: lowbridge

Man, ya just gotta smile when you see that photo! A manly man TCB; I love it!

(You’ve got to wonder what kind of parents raised this kind of OWS trash. I remember when parents’ goals for their kids was to become productive members of society. The olden days, I guess.)


52 posted on 11/14/2011 5:30:15 AM PST by MayflowerMadam
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To: lowbridge
You can bet, as we speak, ambulance chasing NYC lawyers are lining up the dragee for a lawsuit against the patriotic ex-Marine. Not to mention the NYPD will probably question his disability pension as the retired officer shows such dexterity in dispatching the mutt.
53 posted on 11/14/2011 5:30:50 AM PST by kenmcg (pROBLEM)
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To: Diamond

That is a well reasoned post, thank you, for providing that legal definition. Now, what is the law in New York concerning that matter. The article mentions no arrest (citizens’ or otherwise) of the protester for a crime, was he later charged?


54 posted on 11/14/2011 5:34:36 AM PST by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
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To: JDW11235

You are advocating “the heckler’s veto,” which effectively DENIES the free speech of those who were trying to speak before the heckler took over.

“The heckler’s veto” has never been held to be a 1st Amd right.


55 posted on 11/14/2011 5:35:26 AM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Hot Tabasco

Well, if your questional is vague, then so will my answer be. Constitutionally/legally.


56 posted on 11/14/2011 5:37:50 AM PST by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
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To: lowbridge

Anyone else notice how much like the Westboro Baptist Church bunch these OWSers look?


57 posted on 11/14/2011 5:37:59 AM PST by fwdude ("When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve ...")
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To: don-o

how is the exmarine on disability? he has possibly dishonored himself with retirement fraud


58 posted on 11/14/2011 5:42:44 AM PST by GreaterSwiss
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To: Travis McGee

the problem is he’s an excop because of a disability. so he gets paid to not work but is able to throw out a heckler. retirement fraud. he can’t work behind a desk? what’s his disability? it takes 20 yrs to retire. why couldn’t he work the last 5?


59 posted on 11/14/2011 5:45:27 AM PST by GreaterSwiss
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To: Travis McGee

How do you heckle someone at a public meeting on public property? Or was this a private meeting on private property, or a private meeting on public property? Or is there a specific law in New York that prohibits protesting at public meetings? I specifically asked that, and have repeatedly stated that if the protester broke a law, that the situation is different, in that I would agree with a citizen’s arrest.

I have never heard of a “Heckler” except in a private meeting, and usually on private property, or where the “heckling” (specific activity) was a criminal behavior (ie. at a public meeting with a permit, warranting “disruption of a public meeting” etc.) The details make or break the argument of whether or not one or both of these men should be criminally liable for their actions.


60 posted on 11/14/2011 5:47:17 AM PST by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
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To: freedomfiter2

You know what, he’s not a cop. Let the scumbag file a police complaint for assualt and let’s see what a jury of this man’s peers says about it.

I am sick and tired of everyone walking on eggshells around disruptive filth who BANK on decent people being cowards in order to abuse us on an almost daily basis.

My only regret in this story is that the Marine did not stomp a size 11 mudhole into this filthy punk’s chest.


61 posted on 11/14/2011 5:48:11 AM PST by Buckeye Battle Cry (Mittt Romney - he lacks the courage of his absence of convictions.)
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To: freedomfiter2

Oh, swell, we just hear from one of the two bleeding heart liberals in Oklahoma!


62 posted on 11/14/2011 5:48:41 AM PST by Redleg Duke ("Madison, Wisconsin is 30 square miles surrounded by reality.", L. S. Dryfus)
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To: JDW11235
The reason you’re dancing around the issue is because you know that ultimately the disruptor was going to have to be removed by force since it was unlikely he would give up his protesting if politely asked.

And you know that you can’t possibly argue that he has the right to remain in that room while violating everyone else’s right to observe the ceremony in peace……..

And if you think you can support that protestor then you obviously stand in support of the Code Pink protestors who attempted to disrupt Sarah Palin’s V.P. nomination speech by rushing the stage in Minnesota back in 2008…..


63 posted on 11/14/2011 5:49:41 AM PST by Hot Tabasco
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To: JDW11235

His freedom of speech ended at that time when he was trampling the freedoms of the others present.


64 posted on 11/14/2011 5:52:19 AM PST by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: lowbridge

I’d have held the door open for the Marine. Then I’d have sworn up and down the OWS idiot said something about needing fresh air before passing out and becoming incoherent. The Marine was just helping him outside so he could recover...


65 posted on 11/14/2011 5:57:25 AM PST by ThunderSleeps (Stop obama now! Stop the hussein - insane agenda!)
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To: freedomfiter2

Sometimes a man is “the authority”. A man does not call his wife, lawyer, HR Department or anyone else for authorization to do the right thing.


66 posted on 11/14/2011 6:02:48 AM PST by ExpatGator (I hate Illinois Nazis!)
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To: freedomfiter2

He didn’t ask permission. He just took it. Take it up with the authorities and file a complaint. OWS didn’t ask for permission. They just took it.


67 posted on 11/14/2011 6:04:49 AM PST by healy61
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To: JDW11235

The knee jerk, automatic appeal to an external authority for the adjudication of a civil conduct issue is the hallmark of an immature, emotionally and intellectually stunted and dependent populace.

Grown ups self-police and self-regulate their communities. A man in full, and a community of such, has little to no need of the state in their lives.

You’ve been well governmentally educated grasshopper.

Hang around here a while longer and you might get your eyes opened.


68 posted on 11/14/2011 6:07:30 AM PST by mo
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Comment #69 Removed by Moderator

To: JDW11235

You seem completely oblivious to the intent here.

Weismann showed up specifically to disrupt a lawful event, as evidenced by his prepared sign. He was left alone as long as he was quiet and respectful.

But when he started actively disrupting the event with his yelling, he was engaged in unlawful activity, as shown by the definition shown in a previous post.

His “right” to disrupt does NOT trump the rights of everyone else. His actions were, in fact, illegal.

And a nearby Marine “sorted him out”.

Semper Fi.


70 posted on 11/14/2011 6:07:55 AM PST by Tigerized (Occupy Wall Street? Go find the real culprits in the Capitol Building...)
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To: Tigerized

Actually, the poster gave a generalized description of a legal term, which does not necessarilly represent the Law in New York, though I asked if New York as that law, and if it applies in this situation. No answer yet.

“His actions were, in fact, illegal.”

What was the law? Was he criminally charged, and, if so, who arrested him?


71 posted on 11/14/2011 6:12:23 AM PST by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
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To: JDW11235

OK, if you say so. The FACT is, our Republic is being stolen away from us a bit at a time, by the very ilk of creature that man hauled out of that inauguration. It has been said the Constitution is not a suicide pact. The freedoms it enshrines are being used against us and we are lying down for it.


72 posted on 11/14/2011 6:14:03 AM PST by RoadGumby (For God so loved the world)
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To: mo

“The knee jerk, automatic appeal to an external authority for the adjudication of a civil conduct”

Let me know where that came from, or is it wishful thinking?


73 posted on 11/14/2011 6:14:16 AM PST by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
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To: RoadGumby

“The freedoms it enshrines are being used against us and we are lying down for it.”

Thankfully, assault isn’t one of those freedoms, but some people think it is.


74 posted on 11/14/2011 6:15:59 AM PST by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
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To: lowbridge

Love it! What a great picture.


75 posted on 11/14/2011 6:19:17 AM PST by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: JDW11235
I do not know any other facts other than what is reported in the article. The article's silence as to whether or not he was arrested is probably an indicator that he was not arrested. The relevant law in New York would seem to be:

New York Penal - Article 240 - § 240.20 Disorderly Conduct

Legal Research Home > New York Laws > Penal > New York Penal - Article 240 - § 240.20 Disorderly Conduct

 
  § 240.20 Disorderly conduct.
    A  person  is  guilty of disorderly conduct when, with intent to cause
  public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a  risk
  thereof:
    1.  He  engages  in  fighting or in violent, tumultuous or threatening
  behavior; or
    2. He makes unreasonable noise; or
    3. In a public place, he uses abusive or obscene language, or makes an
  obscene gesture; or
    4. Without lawful  authority,  he  disturbs  any  lawful  assembly  or
  meeting of persons; or
    5. He obstructs vehicular or pedestrian traffic; or
    6.  He congregates with other persons in a public place and refuses to
  comply with a lawful order of the police to disperse; or
    7. He creates a hazardous or physically offensive condition by any act
  which serves no legitimate purpose.
    Disorderly conduct is a violation.

Section:  Previous  Article 240  240.00  240.05  240.06  240.08  240.10  240.15  240.20  240.21  240.25  240.26  240.30  240.31  240.32  240.35  Next

Last modified: April 24, 2010
http://law.onecle.com/new-york/penal/PEN0240.20_240.20.html

The protester was engaged in criminal conduct. It is not likely that he would get very far in any kind of civil tort action.

Cordially

76 posted on 11/14/2011 6:21:17 AM PST by Diamond (He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people,)
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To: lowbridge

That pix is going to be iconic.


77 posted on 11/14/2011 6:24:54 AM PST by Tribune7 (If you demand perfection you will wind up with leftist Democrats)
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To: JDW11235

Are you saying Weismann’s actions were totally acceptable? And there has to be a specific written statute in force in a specific locality before anyone is justified in taking corrective, restorative action?

Illegal acts are rarely followed by actual arrest, unfortunately. Which is what the left depends on.

I, sir, do not wish to be ruled by the warped interpretation of Constitutional rights by those who would trample the rights of everyone except themselves. You can do as you wish.


78 posted on 11/14/2011 6:26:05 AM PST by Tigerized (Occupy Wall Street? Go find the real culprits in the Capitol Building...)
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To: Buckeye Battle Cry

I agree with you.

I cannot believe the amount of people in here who feel that we should just allow punks to come into places and disrupt speakers without making our own feelings known.

When America gets to a point where people cannot have a meeting without disruption the turds are winning.

If this clown wanted to speak he should find his own forum.

Lawyers and people who bait others to get a response that can be prosecuted are pussifying our country.

Real Americans are getting sick of this BS.


79 posted on 11/14/2011 6:27:33 AM PST by Venturer
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To: JDW11235

Dragging a disruptor out of a ceremony is hardly assault. Perhaps the disruptor should have been allowed to just ‘do his thing’ ad nauseum’.

Oh, I know, the police, yeah thats it, call them. So they can stand and watch that person ‘exercise his rights’ to speak out against Gov’t.


80 posted on 11/14/2011 6:27:40 AM PST by RoadGumby (For God so loved the world)
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To: Tigerized

Again can anyone answer how the ex-cop is on disability? Seems to be 2 problems here. The protestor and the disability fraudster


81 posted on 11/14/2011 6:31:40 AM PST by GreaterSwiss
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To: freedomfiter2
Where did he get the authority to do that? I have no sympathy for the dragee but it sure looks like assault to me.

The people whose rights were being violated were the ones whose ceremony was being ruined by the heckler.

Wonder if you'd say the same thing about assault if it the heckler broke into a ceremony for a black official and started shouting racial slurs.

82 posted on 11/14/2011 6:32:37 AM PST by Tribune7 (If you demand perfection you will wind up with leftist Democrats)
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To: Diamond

Thanks Diamond, for clearing that up. I appreciate the time and effort you gave to clear that up for me. That would then shift the discussion to how that situation was then remedied (which I would then agree with a citizens’ arrest). I find it odd that he wasn’t charged, considering that the police were already on scene (as seen in one of the “draggin” photos at the link). Thanks again, I do appreciate your time and research.


83 posted on 11/14/2011 6:34:14 AM PST by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
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To: RoadGumby

The middle picture is a hoot. The officer seems to be on a scattered run for cover. I don’t believe the authorities would have taken any action to have stopped the dragee. That is how all these people have ended up in parks. They didn’t ask permission. They just moved in and the authorities are walking on eggshells.


84 posted on 11/14/2011 6:35:08 AM PST by healy61
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To: Tigerized; Diamond

“Are you saying Weismann’s actions were totally acceptable?”

Nope, I actually asked for more details of the event and applicable laws. Diamond provided the applicable law somewhere around #80 or so.

“Illegal acts are rarely followed by actual arrest, unfortunately. Which is what the left depends on.”

Maybe, but police were already on scene, and thus could have dealt with the matter, in addition to a citizens’ arrest if properly performed. So I have to wonder, why no arrest was made.

“I, sir, do not wish to be ruled by the warped interpretation of Constitutional rights by those who would trample the rights of everyone except themselves.”

Ditto.


85 posted on 11/14/2011 6:38:05 AM PST by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
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To: mo; JDW11235

Well said mo.


86 posted on 11/14/2011 6:38:15 AM PST by Ratman83
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To: freedomfiter2
Where did he get the authority to do that? I have no sympathy for the dragee but it sure looks like assault to me.

I say it was a clear-cut case of self-defense. The Marine, being a gentleman, just wanted to take it outside and settle it.

87 posted on 11/14/2011 6:39:31 AM PST by ROCKLOBSTER ( Celebrate Republicans Freed the Slaves Month.)
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To: Travis McGee

Back in 1776, John Rutledge and the Committee of Safety in Charleston, South Carolina, completely ignored “the Rule of Law” and forcefully removed the English governor of South Carolina, who was lawfully appointed by King George III.

Back then, some people understood freedom and the actions necessary to secure it. And others supported the king’s rule of law. They were called Tories and traitors.


88 posted on 11/14/2011 6:39:50 AM PST by sergeantdave
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To: JDW11235

Even if it’s a public event on public property, do people have the right to disrupt, not necessarily protest, a legally-held public event? I would say no, they don’t. If people want to protest by holding signs outside the ceremony or speaking to other protesters, they have that right. No one has the right to disrupt a legally held ceremony. If I went to Obama’s inauguration and started banging on things and shouting and screaming with the specific intent to disrupt the swearing in, I should expect to either be arrested or thrown out by the scruff of my neck. Weissman had the right to protest the ceremony, but only so far as to not interfere with it. He did not have the right to disrupt it.


89 posted on 11/14/2011 6:46:57 AM PST by driftless2
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To: lowbridge

I love the caption “Occupy sidewalk.”


90 posted on 11/14/2011 6:49:15 AM PST by firebrand (It's almost too late.)
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To: JDW11235

This whole thread has gotten unbelievable.

A Marine removes an idiot who had CLEARLY planned to disrupt a legal gathering, and we’ve got people here who are demanding to know if this action was justified by statute. Common sense, apparently, isn’t good enough.

And once someone else has gone to the trouble of citing the specific New York statute concerning this illegality, then he wants to “shift the discussion” as to why there was no arrest. Why not man up and just apologize for jerking everyone around?

And now we have one poster who has already tarred said Marine with the accusation of a false disability, without knowing any of the facts.

That’s it for me. It’s gotten way too absurd.


91 posted on 11/14/2011 6:57:05 AM PST by Tigerized (Occupy Wall Street? Go find the real culprits in the Capitol Building...)
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Comment #92 Removed by Moderator

Comment #93 Removed by Moderator

Comment #94 Removed by Moderator

To: StrongHand

zot


95 posted on 11/14/2011 7:17:21 AM PST by xone
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To: GreaterSwiss
how the ex-cop is on disability?

Do you know his disability? How does dragging out a loser mean he isn't disabled?

zot

96 posted on 11/14/2011 7:19:21 AM PST by xone
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To: Tigerized

Good, because you weren’t paying attention, anyway. You merely decided to try and put words in my mouth, and it didn’t work. I said all the way, way, way back in the thread, responding to the “under what authority” question, that I wanted to know if it was a citizens’ arrest (and subsequently that that would make a difference regarding the scenario, along with whether the man violate a criminal law). Given the further information, the scenario would now be different if it was a citizens’ arrest. So, if your attention span is too fleeting to pay attention, I’m overwhelmed with joy at the prospect of you not addressing me anymore. I don’t owe anyone an apology, and I assure you none is forthcoming.

From my first post on the thread:

“Just logged in to say the same thing [re: by what authority]. I couldn’t tell from the article, but I was going to ask if anyone knew if the retired officer was performing a citizen[s]’ arrest (I thought it required 2 people), was part of private security (doesn’t sound like it), or someone who assaulted someone else because he didn’t like the fact that he spoke during the ceremony.”


97 posted on 11/14/2011 7:25:57 AM PST by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
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To: JDW11235

Why would it matter if it was a public or private event? If the butt head is standing next to me and shouting so I can’t hear the ceremony then he is interfering with my rights to listen. No matter whether he touches me or not the volume of his voice is assaulting my ears - just like loud motorcycle pipes are outlawed in some places, loud, obnoxious people have no right to assault my hearing. They become assaultive when they refuse to shut up so I can hear.

And for way too long we have stood quietly and permitted butt heads to bring about this kind of crap. The majority DOES rule and we have let the minority dictate what is acceptable for too long. I have the right to listen and the right to ask that the offensive person leave - I am there for the purpose of listening. If the offender does not leave then do we just disband the entire affair so they can have their “free speech rights” or does the majority take a stand and remove him from our presence?

I go with removal of the offender every time.


98 posted on 11/14/2011 9:12:52 AM PST by msrngtp2002 (Just my opinion.)
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To: lowbridge
Check the look on this guy's face. They love to provoke, then act like they have no idea why folks are reacting.
99 posted on 11/14/2011 9:16:35 AM PST by TankerKC (Welcome to the age of "I Meant to Do That" Diplomacy)
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To: StrongHand

And you are not to stop protesters from entering anywhere you are and disrupting you.


100 posted on 11/14/2011 9:28:33 AM PST by RoadGumby (For God so loved the world)
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