Posted on 11/21/2011 8:50:41 AM PST by quesney
The court-appointed trustee overseeing the liquidation of MF Global’s brokerage now estimates that the shortfall in the firm’s customer funds could be more than $1.2 billion, double previous estimates.
(Excerpt) Read more at dealbook.nytimes.com ...
I'm guessing Wall Street has also lost the average retail investor's trust for at least a generation.
Good grief. How do you “lose” $1.2 BILLION?
Off shore bank accounts.
That’ll leave a mark!.
You “trust” your hard earned money to Jon Corzine, our next Treasury Secretary!
If segregated funds aren’t segregated, major jail time is called for. Even following orders on this should be severely punished.
There is an investors protector insurance group, but as far as I know, that’s for securities. I don’t know if there’s any protection for commodity accounts once the rules of conduct and the exchange oversight have been breached.
Time to invest in Orange Jumpsuit, handcuff and leg chain manufacturers.
You “trust” your hard earned money to Jon Corzine, our next Treasury Secretary!
I started to laugh at this before I remembered that in our today’s USA — Upside-Down States of America — something like this could really happen. We are in the Twilight Zone, where even cash in a brokerage account isn’t safe.
Off the top of my head the CME’s version of SIPC needs to make this good; hope they didn’t let their insurance lapse . . .
What I'm intrigued by is the NY Times covering this. Think of it, the NY Times covering something like this of MF Global, a company which Jon Corzine headed until recently?
Pinch me, I must be dreaming.
by stealing money from customer's segregated accounts to make super high risk investments. They bet wrong and lost the money they converted from their customers in the market.
“Good grief. How do you “lose” $1.2 BILLION?”
You don’t lose it, of course. You steal it. In essence, this appears to be plain old theft. You simply take funds from customer accounts and use them (and lose them) in your business. As of now, Corzine appears to be a common thief who wormed his way into the big leagues.
All of that said, it is still early; so maybe there is some other explanation. For the sake of the account owners, I hope so.
“There is an investors protector insurance group, but as far as I know, that’s for securities. I don’t know if there’s any protection for commodity accounts once the rules of conduct and the exchange oversight have been breached.”
I’ve heard that commodites/options/futures accounts *are not* protected. MF’s clients are F’d.
Culture of Corruption
Incredible no one goes to jail over this stuff.
Read Ann Barnhardt’s Farewell to the Markets message
(Also check out her Youtube vids- she rocks!)
Put Corzinne in a cell next to Bernie Madoff
-——How do you “lose” $1.2 BILLION-——
The article says is was lost in trading.
The loss is the gambler’s equivalent of trying to make up losses at the roulette table with the kid’s college money
It's similar to fire insurance..if you take our coverage, then burn your house down, it's not in effect..
This was a major fraud..all the cash balances were removed and transferred. It takes several clerks..back office personnel..to do this..Corzine ordered it to be done, but the ones who actually did the transfers knew they were breaking the law..and should have refused to comply, AND reported it to the authorities..They probably went along, because they were told by Corzine, and he convinced them, that it would all be put back in a few days, no one would know, and it would save the firm, and their jobs..
They're now talking to the feds,a nd attemptig to work out plea bargains for themselves. The Feds wan direct testimony linking Corzine to the criminal acts..
Most of the coverage seems to try to delete or minimize the role of the CEO Corzine. They also seem to forget he is a democratic politician and a candidate for Sec Treasury.
I dont think they “lost” all of this- It is nice and safe in Obama’s campaign fund.
Umm, yeah, like when they floated the name of Jamie Gorelick as possible obama FBI chief
DNC Swiss accounts.
I’m thinking more like...tar and feathers...
nah, this company took on the idiot Corzine in 2010 and he almost immediately gambled on CDS high risk investments with client money-
“commingled” is the polite term for stealing
Basically under Corzine’s short leadership the investment firm hoovered out money from client accounts, gambled and lost
(I read that Gerald Celente lost the value of his 6-figure precious metals account)
Tyler Durden (ZeroHedge) published an Ann Barnhardt rant last week- excellent
I guess the idiots who knowingly stayed invested in M-F Global thought Corzine’s political connnections were too big to fail
If this is true, look at the bright side. Supposing for the moment that Corzine doesn't skate because of his Democratic connections, he's got enough money to actually make good on $500 million of the theft!
Bingo!
We are now moving at faster than the speed of light? We crossed over to another dimension and are winking out of the space/time continuum? You have just entered the Twilight Zone.
MF Global was speculating on soverign debt...and doing so highly leveraged..estimates are 30:1 if not higher.
That means that you can control ( buy) $ ONE billion of debt for about $30 million down. Corzine bet the ranch that Europe would stay solvent..he went long.. If the value of the bonds increase, you make money. If the bonds decline your entire margin balance is wiped out, and you have to post more margin, or they close out your positions.
MF Global got massive margin calls..probabaly from European banks..( if the trades were with US firms, they'd be talking about it already. Corzine thought he was a "master of the universe"..if the trades were closed out, he, and the firm, were finished..so he "borrowed" the customers' $$ to post more margin, and that also was lost...when the bonds declined further..
Corzine needs to see the inside of Rikers Island for an extended stay. That’s the only way to prevent future episodes like this.
Corzine was one if Bar's economic advisers and big-time campaign bundlers.
Obama Flashback: Praises White House ‘Partner’ Jon Corzine ... ‘He Tells It to You Straight!’
Typical leftists. Everything they do involves using other people's money.
Correction: The loss is the gambler’s equivalent of trying to make up losses at the roulette table with other people's kids' college money.
ML/NJ
I did...and if what she says about this being the tip of the iceberg as to others’ exposure to Corzone’s MF, we have only begun to see the damage.
Corzine gets half. The O’Bastard campaign war chest gets the other half.
Note the plus sign. I think when this all broke Ann Barnhardt was using the number $1.6 Billion.
The big question really is: why hasn't Jon Corzine been indicted yet?
ML/NJ
1. You can get away with all of this as long as you happen to be a Democrat.
Re your post 31: That’s exactly what I think happened, too. They tried to cover what they hoped was a temporary margine fund with customer cash. What part of “segregated funds” didn’t Corzine and his underlings not understand?
They really need to take these financier terrorists who steal billions of other peoples money (including taxpayers) and put them in front of a firing squad, instead of dealing with them judiciously with kid gloves and fancy prisons. The level of these thefts should require capital punishment.
The policy should have been implemented starting in 2008 with Madoff and then moved on to the many others. It would put an end this financial thievery and skullduggery.
The Ferengi Rules Of Acquisition from Star Trek -
I like that, and it certainly applies.
Anyone told The Messiah that this outfit is jut too big to fail?
Thanks..did you see my #20 to you...how I think it went down?
Do you actually know that, or is it wishful thinking on your part?
(If the latter, I'm wishing too)
Bigger question: "Will he ever be indicted? Or even banned from the Securities industry?".
-————other people’s kids’ college money.——
Well, not exactly. The gambler does not have access or signatory authority to other kids college money.
He is however able to co mingle the money in his kid’ s with his own family general account.
The MF’ers co mingled customer money over which they had signatory authority with MF general funds. Lawyers co mingle trust money a lot and many get caught at it
You have to realize..Corzin was stupid...really stupid..he never in his dreams thought that he couldn't fix this in a few days, save his positions and the firm, and return the money back to the account. He acted on impulse, never considered the consequences...and never concealed his actions. I'd even wager that the clerks, the back office people who did the actual transfers, asked for email instructions..
Corzine has been quieter than even Madoff ( after he was arrested..) not a good sign, normally..he's in deep doo-doo..and he will be thrown under the bus....unless he has enough dirt on Obama, to force a pardon from Obama after he is defeated next November...
It sounds plausible. One other possibility is that Corzine delegated a lot, and the fund transfer came from below from detail people afraid of him after they carried out his top-level instructions on the bonds. "What--we lost money because you bought THOSE Italian bonds? I'll have your head!"
Even if that's not what happened, I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes the defense story.
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