Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Mystery of Dead Sea Scroll Authors Possibly Solved
Yahoo! ^ | 22 Nov 2011 | Owen Jarus

Posted on 11/22/2011 7:19:20 AM PST by shove_it

The Dead Sea Scrolls may have been written, at least in part, by a sectarian group called the Essenes, according to nearly 200 textiles discovered in caves at Qumran, in the West Bank, where the religious texts had been stored.

Scholars are divided about who authored the Dead Sea Scrolls and how the texts got to Qumran, and so the new finding could help clear up this long-standing mystery.

The research reveals that all the textiles were made of linen, rather than wool, which was the preferred textile used in ancient Israel. Also they lack decoration, some actually being bleached white, even though fabrics from the period often have vivid colours. Altogether, researchers say these finds suggest that the Essenes, an ancient Jewish sect, "penned" some of the scrolls.

Not everyone agrees with this interpretation. An archaeologist who has excavated at Qumran told LiveScience that the linen could have come from people fleeing the Roman army after the fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, and that they are in fact responsible for putting the scrolls into caves.

[...]

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Israel
KEYWORDS: deadseascrolls; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; israel; qumran

1 posted on 11/22/2011 7:19:21 AM PST by shove_it
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: shove_it; Ernest_at_the_Beach; SunkenCiv

Ping


2 posted on 11/22/2011 7:24:41 AM PST by shove_it (just undo it)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

ping


3 posted on 11/22/2011 7:27:19 AM PST by Fractal Trader
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: shove_it

Or “made copies of”.


4 posted on 11/22/2011 7:28:36 AM PST by DainBramage
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: shove_it

Saying the authors of the dead sea scrolls mystery is solved is like saying they identified the author of the library of congress.


5 posted on 11/22/2011 7:30:03 AM PST by Raycpa
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: shove_it
One of my family's favorite Christmas traditions is to read Bartholomew's Passage

Check it out.

6 posted on 11/22/2011 7:31:58 AM PST by kinsman redeemer (The real enemy seeks to devour what is good.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: shove_it
They discovered that every single one of these textiles was made of linen, even though wool was the most popular fabric at the time in Israel,

If the caves were a place of safe keeping, why assume that only the scrolls were supposed to be saved. Perhaps the peoples that stored the scrolls also thought the linens which were uncommon should be stored as well.

7 posted on 11/22/2011 7:35:29 AM PST by Raycpa
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: shove_it

George Bush did it!


8 posted on 11/22/2011 7:38:11 AM PST by Pravious
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: shove_it

The Dead Sea scrolls could have been penned by “an ancient Jewish sect”? Wow! This is a major find. Whoever would have guessed.


9 posted on 11/22/2011 7:41:26 AM PST by Mr. Lucky
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: shove_it
The owners of the clothing likely were not poor, as only one of the textiles had a patch on it."This is very, very, important," Shamir said. "Patching is connected with [the] economic situation of the site."

Unless the linens were inventory of goods to be sold.

Sheesh, these types of researchers really bug the crap out of me. They concoct ideas that are consistent with their beliefs and avoid brainstorming on all the possible reasons for what they see. How do we know the stuff stored in these caves was not inventory held for sale and that the folks themselves were dirt poor and wore rags? How do we know that these goods were not stolen from another group or some sort of war spoils that were being shared? Any number of alternative theories can be derived from the evidence that everything they found was linen. Heck, maybe they only found the linen cave and have yet to find the wool cave. Or maybe subsequent visitors took the wool clothing and the decorated linens and had no use for the plain linen clothing.

10 posted on 11/22/2011 7:44:12 AM PST by Raycpa
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lonevoice

ping


11 posted on 11/22/2011 8:25:56 AM PST by Pride in the USA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: shove_it

bttt


12 posted on 11/22/2011 9:04:01 AM PST by steelyourfaith (If it's "green" ... it's crap !!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Thanks shove_it.
...may have been written, at least in part, by a sectarian group called the Essenes, according to nearly 200 textiles discovered in caves at Qumran, in the West Bank, where the religious texts had been stored... all the textiles were made of linen, rather than wool, which was the preferred textile used in ancient Israel.
So, IOW, because NO scrolls were found with these textiles, *and* because these textiles are linen rather than the wool preferred by the Jews in post-exilic Israel, the Essenes must have written the Dead Sea Scrolls -- even though the Essenes were themselves Jews. And the scrolls are written on vellum for the most part (a few are on papyrus).

Each time some minor find has been saddled on as proof that it was the Essenes, along has come some contradicting facts. This is only surprising to those who cling to the Essene mythos, which is modern in origin.

If there were something explicit in the texts themselves -- "these are the writings of the Essenes" -- or if these fabrics were found with the scrolls, then yeah. Otherwise, no. The main structure at Qumran was an inn, and farmhouse, and some ancient products were made there. No scrolls. The supposed scribal workshop turned out to be the main dining room of the inn.

The Essenes are very nearly imaginary in the first place. The Essenes show up in Josephus, and nowhere else. There are no Essene monuments, no references to them in the Scriptures, and no other contemporary reference to them.

The best explanation for the Dead Sea Scrolls is that religious Jews fleeing one of the Roman attacks (and/or one of the Jewish faction's attacks on another Jewish faction) stashed writings as well as ritual materials from the Temple in various places where they could be retrieved later.

The "treasure map" in the Copper Scroll lists various things that were hidden, and the locations, none of which of course make any sense now (look in the hole behind Bob's date palm tree, that kind of stuff). The fact that the Copper Scroll exists in the first place shows that it wasn't an ascetic community of monks that wrote the scrolls -- unless one wants to try to claim that some of the scrolls were written by the Essenes who lived in the area, while some were brought up from Jerusalem, and that all were hidden in the same few caves.

Then all that's needed is an explanation for why the Essenes needed to hide their scrolls at the same time the fleeing religious Jews from the big city had to hide theirs.


13 posted on 11/22/2011 3:28:01 PM PST by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: shove_it; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; ...

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks shove_it.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


14 posted on 11/22/2011 3:46:12 PM PST by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Fractal Trader

Thanks Fractal Trader.


15 posted on 11/22/2011 3:52:29 PM PST by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: dennisw; Cachelot; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; Lent; GregB; ..
Middle East and terrorism, occasional political and Jewish issues Ping List. High Volume

If you’d like to be on or off, please FR mail me.

..................< That the Essenes wrote the scrolls isn't a new idea. I'll leave it to the archeologists to explain why the fabrics, presumably not from the UPS man who delivered them to the caves, prove this.

16 posted on 11/22/2011 3:52:29 PM PST by SJackson (Haven't changed the environment, just take a bath. Eat a piece of chocolate. You need one. Michelle)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

Hahahahahahahahaha>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


17 posted on 11/22/2011 3:54:01 PM PST by Monkey Face (It's always darkest just before it goes totally black. <My mother said it first.>)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Monkey Face

:’) I’m glad I could be there for ya. ;’)


18 posted on 11/22/2011 4:26:17 PM PST by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv
look in the hole behind Bob's date palm tree,

A friend of a friend is named Bob, and has a date palm tree near his house in Vegas...

Think I'll head for Lost Wages tomorrow.

Gas dropped 5 cents; and tomorrow our local station gives an aextra 10 cents off for cash, so I should be able to afford the 900 mile trip. The treasure will more than pay for the return home!

19 posted on 11/22/2011 5:17:44 PM PST by ApplegateRanch ("Public service" does NOT mean servicing the people, like a bull among heifers.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: SJackson

I did a White Paper on this in college that had my prof excited as heck. He wanted to publish it, but the college refused because I wasn’t part of his research team and it had nothing to do with my major.
Suffice it to say, people had been combing these scrolls looking for Jesus...who wasn’t there. But Paul/Saul was...after the murder of Steven...who had been reared in the Essene tradition and was well loved. It was the Essene history of this visit where Saul sought a hiding place and they were going to kill him. He escaped by being lowered down a steep wall or cliff in the middle of he night, and some went with him. By Essene Tradition, their names were erased from The Book, never to be spoken again.
They called Saul a “Man of Scoffing” and a “Man of Lying”.
The war Scrolls are fascinating as well...and they were also Essene.
I am simply amazed that it took them this long to acknowledge this.


20 posted on 11/22/2011 5:26:18 PM PST by MestaMachine (obama kills)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: ApplegateRanch

:’) What happened in Qumran, stays in Qumran.


21 posted on 11/22/2011 7:40:57 PM PST by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: shove_it

I am convinced that no one group occupied the cave. At different times in history, anyone who had reason to go underground hid in those caves. David hid from Saul, the Hasmoneans hid from the Greeks, the early, pre-Pauline Christians hid there, and the Bar Kochba rebels hid there. It’s entirely likely that the Essenians also hung out there. Thus, the library accumulated there, along with some white linens, some colored wools, an armory and guard tower, the Copper Scroll, etc.


22 posted on 11/23/2011 12:14:41 AM PST by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: MestaMachine

It is no too late to publish it now, with some updates.


23 posted on 11/23/2011 12:53:23 AM PST by AdmSmith (GCTGATATGTCTATGATTACTCAT)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: shove_it

I first heard it suggested that the Essenes were the authors when I was a child. Why is this news?


24 posted on 11/23/2011 1:15:20 AM PST by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AdmSmith

You are into genetics as well? Replication? It was one of my favorite subjects.


25 posted on 11/23/2011 3:15:40 AM PST by MestaMachine (obama kills)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: dsc

Research money/grants.


26 posted on 11/23/2011 3:17:08 AM PST by MestaMachine (obama kills)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv
The Essenes show up in Josephus, and nowhere else.

Actually they show up in Pliny the Elder and Philo wrote about them. I think the best fit for Qumran and the scrolls is that it was an Essene settlement and that the scrolls were their documents. The Damascus document in particuliar points in that general direction. But that is all we have, general directions. To point to textiles as proof is non-sensical in my opinion. The absence of wool in the caves means nothing more than no wool was found which could mean the scrolls were hidden in summer when wool was generally not worn by the rich.

Now the question of who were the Essenes I think is more interesting. Were they a break away sect from the Sadduccees as some claim? I don't think so because more than just the Torah is found among the Dead Sea Scrolls. The Sadduccees really only submitted to the Torah. Were the Essenes a break away from the Pharisees? This may be more tenable. During the Hasmonean period, the Pharisees developed from a group generally labeled the Hasidim. Some see a common thread in the sects (Pharisees and Essenes) in their practice of Halakhah which the Sadduccess really did not practice. The difference in their practice may be the real difference between Pharisees and Essenes. Again, nobody knows this, it is just conjecture.

27 posted on 11/23/2011 10:41:12 AM PST by fatez ("If you're going through Hell, keep going." Winston Churchill)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: shove_it
The Dead Sea Scrolls may have been written, at least in part, by a sectarian group called the Essenes

What's the date on this story? 1948?

28 posted on 11/23/2011 4:36:03 PM PST by ElkGroveDan (My tagline is in the shop.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: fatez

Thanks fatez.


29 posted on 11/23/2011 9:53:21 PM PST by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

“The Essenes are very nearly imaginary in the first place. The Essenes show up in Josephus, and nowhere else. There are no Essene monuments, no references to them in the Scriptures, and no other contemporary reference to them.”

Factually untrue.

They “show up” in contemporaneous works by both Philo and Pliny as well as Josephus.

See: http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/5867-essenes

I don’t know of any 1st century contemporaneous “monuments” marked specifically as monuments of the “Pharisees” or “Sadducees” either. Being Jews first and members of a particular sect second, most any markings on edifices (gathering places and/or religious schools) that either sect would have left would have been “Jewish”. It also goes without saying that every description of the Essenes implies they were the less worldly of Jewish sects and not of the “monument” building type to begin with.

There may be 1st century Christian reasons, or later Christian reasons (editing in both cases) for why they are not directly mentioned, by name, in Christian scriptures.


30 posted on 11/29/2011 12:39:10 PM PST by Wuli
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Wuli

Actually, someone pointed that out about Philo and Pliny a little earlier, but it still doesn’t impact the factually true of what remains — the Essenes had (and have) no structures attributed to them (including the Qumran structures), appear to have been an insignificant and short-lived ascetic sect living in a remote area, had no connection whatsoever with Qumran, and their alleged authorship of the Dead Sea scrolls is a ridiculous modern fiction belied by the texts themselves.


31 posted on 11/30/2011 8:31:27 PM PST by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv
"the Essenes had (and have) no structures attributed to them (including the Qumran structures)"

Neither do the Pharisees or the Sadducees or any other Jewish sect have any edifices at Qumran attributed specifically to them.

Apparently few (if any) Jewish sects of the 1st century labeled edifices they used, as none named them as edifices belonging to THEIR sect - at Qumran or anywhere else.

Does THAT fact translate to none of the texts at Qumran as possibly stored there by any members of the sects of Pharisees or Sadducees? No. The mere fact of the lack of attribution - naming a location as the location of any particular sect, does not preclude the presence of any particular sect there - including Pharisees, Sadducees - or the Essene.

"appear to have been an insignificant and short-lived ascetic sect living in a remote area, had no connection whatsoever with Qumran"

An opinion, not a fact, and one of many different opinions on the issue that cannot - either way - be proven by the few available facts. It is as subject that will probably be debated among religious scholars until the end of time.

"and their alleged authorship [by some] of the Dead Sea scrolls is a ridiculous modern fiction belied by the texts themselves"

SOME say the idea is 'ridiculous', while others say that denying the possibility is ridiculous.

It is enough in such matters to say "I believe . . . . . . . " and leave it at that.

32 posted on 12/06/2011 12:11:42 PM PST by Wuli
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Wuli
An opinion, not a fact, and one of many different opinions on the issue that cannot -- either way -- be proven by the few available facts.
The only idea that isn't supported by the few available facts is Essene authorship. It was saddled on quite soon after the discovery, and simply doesn't have any basis. Despite this, it has been repeated many times, and continues to be, and has picked up lots of true believers.


33 posted on 12/06/2011 2:53:06 PM PST by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv
"The only idea that isn't supported by the few available facts is Essene authorship. It was saddled on quite soon after the discovery, and simply doesn't have any basis."

The issue is not 'saddled' sic [settled], not in the least.

Try reading the works [books] of the Dead Sea Scrolls scholar, Robert Eisenman

- Professor of Middle East Religions and Director of the Institute for the Study of Judeo-Christian Origins at California State University, Long Beach; and prior National Endowment for the Humanities Fellow at the Albright Institute of Archeological Research in Jeruselum, and a Visiting Senior Member at Linacre College, Oxford. He was also a Senior Fellow at the Oxford Center for Postgraduate Hebrew Studies.

He is a detailed researcher but writes very hard-to-read books because he can't stop himself from inserting all the learned connections he knows between persons and between persons and events - EVERY connection he knows - directly into the text in very long paragraphs with many parts in parenthesis and notes. His masses of embedded explanatory details make for distractions on the general path of an idea that a paragraph or section starts out to fulfill. My copies of his books are marked with color felt markers in nearly every paragraph, trying to identify a simple narrative that alone would provide the general knowledge he seeks to convey.

While I can say good luck in reading him, I would also say that his works, his standing and his opinions indicate the matter we speak of is NOT a 'settled' issue; particular NOT settled as to WHO is/was IS NOT/WAS NOT represented in the works stored at Qumran.

I am sure he would say, as I have, that you are entitled to your opinions - as your beliefs, with the exception of one - the opinion that the matter is absolutely settled. Opinions to the contrary (and contrary to each other), learned opinions, remain, and the existence of them and the standing of some of those who hold them leave no one with certitude beyond the certitude of their own belief on the matter.

http://www.roberteisenman.com/

A few of his works are:

The Dead Sea Scrolls and the First Christians. Harper Collins, 1996.

The Dead Sea Scrolls Uncovered: The First Complete Translation and Interpretation of 50 Key Documents Withheld For Over 35 Years (with Michael Wise). Penguin, 1992. Review by Robert M. Price

A Facsimile Edition of the Dead Sea Scrolls (with James Robinson). Biblical Archaeology Society, 1991.

James the Just in the Habakkuk Pesher. E.J. Brill Leiden, 1986.

Maccabees, Zadokites, Christians and Qumran: A New Hypothesis of Qumran Origins. E.J. Brill, Leiden, 1984. Islamic Law in Palestine and Israel. E.J. Brill, Leiden, 1976. * Reprinted in The Dead Sea Scrolls and the First Christians. Harper Collins, 1996.

34 posted on 12/07/2011 11:33:14 AM PST by Wuli
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson