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Gingrich 'prepared to take the heat' with talk of amnesty ("Let's be humane in enforcing the law")
The Los Angeles Times ^ | 2011-11-22 | Kim Geiger

Posted on 11/22/2011 7:54:13 PM PST by rabscuttle385

Edited on 11/22/2011 8:03:27 PM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]

I do not believe that the people of the United States are going to take people whove been here for a quarter of a century [and] separate them from their families and expel them, Gingrich said during a discussion about illegal immigration and border security. I do believe we should control the border. I do believe we should have very severe penalties.


(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2012gopprimary; aliens; amnesty; amnewtsty; anything4abuck; blabbermouthnewt; breakfastattiffanys; circularfiringsquad; coward; epicfail; fanniemaegingrich; freddiemacnewt; gingrich; gingrich4amnesty; gingrich4illegals; gingrich4laraza; gingrich4nwo; gingrich4obama; gingrichantigop; goawaynewt; gop4obama; hispandering; illegalaliens; illegals; illegals4gingrich; illegals4newt; immigration; laraza; larazagingrich; larazanewt; lareconquista; leroy; newt; newtgingrich; newtlied2youagain; newtperry; newtrino; newtscozzafava2012; notpureenough; onthetake; overeducatedidiot; perry; pillsburydoughboy; reconquista; rickgingrich; rino; rinogingrich; rinoimplosion; shutupnewt; soros4gingrich; squattersupportsquad; supernova; unregisteredlobbyist; untrustworthynewt; vichy; working4laraza; wouldnewtlie2you
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To: rabscuttle385; All

Rabs, there is no doubt in my mind that you have ‘LibDAR’ (Liberal Radar), you can detect those scumbags no matter WHAT disguise or camouflage they attempt to utilize.


601 posted on 11/24/2011 12:35:58 PM PST by mkjessup (I stand with Herman Cain !!)
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To: rabscuttle385; All
You've bashed Republicans 1000x more ,especially in general than you've bashed democrats.

Both democrats and Republicans have no clue as regards to what needs to be done : deporting illegals and stopping Cheap China products that are destroying America's factories and manufacturing ability and jobs.

602 posted on 11/24/2011 1:18:44 PM PST by Democrat_media (China is destroying all our jobs and manufacturing ability. China makes everything.)
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To: Democrat_media; mkjessup; stephenjohnbanker
You've bashed Republicans 1000x more ,especially in general than you've bashed democrats.

Are you saying that John McCain is actually a Republican?!

My bad!

FUJM!!!

603 posted on 11/24/2011 1:51:49 PM PST by rabscuttle385 (Live Free or Die)
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To: GeronL

I dont agree with that- if you are born here of people who are here illegally you should NOT be a citizen and automagically entitle your illegal parents to free welfare


604 posted on 11/24/2011 6:40:29 PM PST by Mr. K (Physically unable to proofreed <--- oops, see?)
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; WilliamHouston; kabar; sickoflibs; AuntB; Liz; DoughtyOne; ...

” Naturalization takes longer than that. But I think 10 years down the road you would see the signs of the death of the USA, and 20 years after amnesty there would be no chance of a conservative POTUS. Overwhelming majorities of leftists would take over all 3 branches of government and make immigration policy and “distribute the wealth” even more generous. “

Bingo !


605 posted on 11/24/2011 8:22:49 PM PST by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: Democrat_media; rabscuttle385
You've bashed Republicans 1000x more ,especially in general than you've bashed democrats. Both democrats and Republicans have no clue as regards to what needs to be done : deporting illegals and stopping Cheap China products that are destroying America's factories and manufacturing ability and jobs.

Democrat_media,

Are you a conservative first and then a Republican, or a Republican first and then a conservative?
606 posted on 11/24/2011 8:51:15 PM PST by SoConPubbie
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To: SoConPubbie; All

I’m not a Republican.

Most Republicans and all Democrats have sold out America to China and Mexico and illegals.

What I am for is eliminating the IRS, EPA and closing the border to illegals and manufactured products from China and other foreign countries.

I don’t know what that makes me . But me, Pat Buchanan and only a few others have a clue as to what is causing the decline in jobs and the decline in America. Most Americans , don’t have a clue. And most politicians are vile,corrupt scum that don’t have a clue.


607 posted on 11/24/2011 11:17:48 PM PST by Democrat_media (China is destroying all our jobs and manufacturing ability. China makes everything.)
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To: SoConPubbie; All

I’m not a Republican.

Most Republicans and all Democrats have sold out America to China and Mexico and illegals.

What I am for is eliminating the IRS, EPA and closing the border to illegals and manufactured products from China and other foreign countries.

I don’t know what that makes me . But me, Pat Buchanan and only a few others have a clue as to what is causing the decline in jobs and the decline in America. Most Americans , don’t have a clue. And most politicians are vile,corrupt scum that don’t have a clue.

But democrats are worse as democrats are evil international socialists bent on destroying America and capitalism. Funny that rabscuttle and your little group do very little bashing of democrats or pointing out who they are.


608 posted on 11/24/2011 11:21:41 PM PST by Democrat_media (China is destroying all our jobs and manufacturing ability. China makes everything.)
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To: mojitojoe
What I'm saying is I'm done voting for the candidate who will destroy the country slower than the other. I want a candidate who will actually do the radical things necessary to save our nation regardless of how those things are taken by the voters in the end. Things are so bad it's going to be extremely hard even for the perfect President on paper to be able to get the changes needed to save the nation, and still stay popular enough to keep their power and, changes kept in place. Regardless it's the only choice.

The liberal Romney can't even be supported on this website, and I have no problem with that, but I also don't see him as much(if any) worse than some of the other liberal career politicians who aren't right on things such as illegal immigration. Romney is better than Obama, so should we support him? No, because there is a point that we Conservatives shouldn't cross when it comes to voting for the lesser of two evils. I just think a lot more of our candidates should be in the same group as Romney. I'm not going to what the establishment Republicans expect me to do this time around no matter what. Pretty much any electable candidate will be better than Obama, Republican or Democrat, so that's not a good enough reason alone to support them. After all we are talking about a guy who isn't our first horrible President, but who is probably the first who actually dislikes the U.S., and wants to see it's decline.

I'm sick of the same old career politician establishment guys who haven't done what's needed, and that's why I'm going with Herman Cain who's someone completely new. I will risk inexperience, and the unknown, over the same old status quo candidates we keep getting. I think Herman Cain is right on the most important issues he's talked about, and the fact he's not a career politician is good with me. Cain, and Bachmann are the only two candidates who are serious when it comes to stopping illegal immigration I've heard. The only reason they have declined in the polls is because we allowed the liberal media, and establishment Republicans, to shape our views of them. They want us to think anyone who poses a threat to Obama, and particularly one of their voting democgraphics, as being the stupidest, and most unqualified people on earth when the truth is exactly the opposite. That's why guys like Cain are attacked viciously at a ridiculous rate, or completely ignored as if they aren't even in the running.

They did it to Sarah Palin as well, and it seems some Conservatives fall for their ploy, and do what's wanted by the liberals in the media. They know they can't change a Conservative into a liberal, but they do know they can still destroy a Conservative politician in the minds of some Conservatives voters, and make them move on because their candidate is now “electable”, or some other reason that's not based on reality, but on being brainwashed with the negativity on continual basis.

Not all issues are equal, and I can fully support a candidate who I disagree with on more issues than I agree, if we just happen to agree on the most important issues facing the survival of our nation. Illegal immigration is just as important as the rest of the issues the candidates say must be fixed to save the United States, and our power\influence, but it's also ignored by many of those same politicians who are too scared of the issue, or don't see it for the problem it is. I believe most just see it as too hard of a problem to go after hard now because of fear, because it's not a problem that's hard to see. It's one of the easiest issues to see, and explain the problems it's causing to others. Guys like Gingrich can't see legal, and illegal Hispanic immigrants any differently like many Republicans, and only think about votes instead of what's best for the nation.

There is a difference between illegal, and legal immigration. It has to be stopped for the survival of our nation, and not stopping it will do nothing to get Republican votes in the long run. It's just a cowards way of ignoring an issue they know will destroy the United States, so they can have their temporary power and success. That's what makes them despicable to me.

There are a few issues that our nations survival depends on, and if a candidate can't take them all serious then they don't deserve our vote. They can disagree with me on many other issues, and I will still proudly vote for them if they are right on the issues that are killing our nation. No one is going to agree with me 100% of the time, and that's not what I'm looking for in a candidate. Illegal immigration is the only one of these issues that isn't even talked about seriously in complete contrast to vast majority of U.S. citizens. Many voters have just stopped thinking about the issue because they don't expect it to ever be taken serious, and some have started to believe it's not as serious as it is. Just because it's been ignored for decades, doesn't mean it's not just as important as our other issues that have also been ignored, but at least openly seen for what they are.

It's hard enough to believe we will get a politician that can actually make the spending cuts needed, and limit the power of the federal government significantly the way it was meant to be, without ignorant voters pushing them out of power. That's not even mentioning the fact we are ignoring an issue like illegal immigration that is changing this country, and will cause it's fall long before any nation like Iran will. We are our biggest threat.

People don't understand how easy parts of this nation could fall apart from the inside. A terrorist nation\group, can kill Americans and hurt the nation, but the fact is they have next to no chance at bringing down the U.S., but illegal immigration, which many seem to forget is sponsored by the corrupt Mexican government, not only has a change to do so, but will if it's allowed to continue at the rate it has been.

I'm not going to vote for any candidate who's wrong on any of the few, but enormous, main issues we face. The Republican establishment use that way of thinking to push whoever they want on us knowing most of us will vote against Obama even if we can't stand the Republican nominee. Most of us did it with McCain, and his ridiculous stupid campaign(such as making the stupid “campaign” ploy to “stop” his campaign and go back to Washington for the betterment of the nation over his personal election BS}, and it wasn't even that hard to start lying to yourself that McCain was something that he wasn't after seeing him compared to Obama. The Republican establishment see nothing to worry about in pushing their candidates on us because they believe they will see enough of our Conservative votes for the Republican no matter what, as we vote against Obama instead of for the Republican nominee just like we have for so many past elections. I have done it in the past after saying I wouldn't, because I always found something I could lie to myself about. Even a Conservative VP doesn't do much unless you see that person staying popular, and getting elected in 8 to the Presidency in 8 years, and hoping they are as good as you think they will be. That's not a very good thing to be hopeful about.

How about a President, and VP who are right on all the most important issues, and who are ready to enact the change to save our nation even if it's rejected by ignorant voters in the end. There is no other choice for the nation than to get someone who will at the very least try. I'm surprised we have so many career politicians with liberal actions marring their records even in consideration, much less leading the polls, after the Conservative TEA party movements rise, and show of power in elections in recent elections. I think a lot of Republicans are too cautious to leave the establishment, and the candidates they have been supporting for decades over new candidates who will bring us something different.

It's hard for a lot us to see that the Republican party isn't the Conservative party many of us thought, and will have to be changed into that by the Conservative Republican minority against the majority of the party establishment. If the liberals can turn the democrat party into the radical leftist party it's become, then why can't we turn the Republican party into the true common sense Conservative party that's popular with Americans, and is needed for our survival? Instead we continue to move to the left with the democrats. We have to take a chance to get something better, instead of electing the same predictable bad politician.

I'm voting for Herman Cain because he's exactly the new type of candidate we need to start seeing more of in each primary. He's right on the most important issues facing our nation, and isn't a career politician, and doesn't act\talk like one. Many even on our side use that against him to prop up career politicians. Cain and Bachmann are the only two I can think of that take illegal immigration serious, along with the other nation killing issues, so I see them as the only ones I could support in the general election at this point. I'm going with Cain, but I could support Bachmann unlike the other candidates. I don't want to see a liberal with a conservative as VP like before either. I want a Conservative.

I believe we have people who consider themselves part of the TEA party supporting the career politicians like Gingrich when we have a couple of real Conservatives who fit what most of us said we wanted in a candidate(including a completely new Conservative in Cain), while Gingrich has been in politics since the 50’s, takes the same “compassionate Conservative” BS stance on illegal immigration that has gotten us nothing positive, and shows where he actually stand on the issue.

Not to mention his other liberal actions such as putting the party before principle in endorsing(along with the log cabin Republicans) the extremely liberal Republican(even compared to other RINO’s) Dede Scozzafava instead of the Conservative candidate Doug Hoffman who was ahead of Scozzafaca, and shown in polls to have a real chance at winning. Meanwhile Hoffman was getting Conservative endorsements from the likes of Sarah Palin, and Fred Thompson among others. Dede Scozzafava ended up dropping out of the race, and endorsing the democrat candidate who went on to win a close race, while she came in a very distant third.

This wasn't a distant election either. It was the 2009 New York Congressional special election! This should have killed any chance Gingrich had winning the Republican nomination. Why would we choose a party before principle guy again? We should take our chances with something new like we would get with Herman Cain.

If Sarah Palin endorses Gingrich, Romney, Perry, or any of the other Republicans who I can't support in the general election then she has ruined her reputation with me, and hopefully the true Conservative TEA party movement. She would be better off not endorsing anyone than doing that, but that would also rightfully hurt her. She needs to either endorse Herman Cain or Michelle Bachmann. I think it should be Herman Cain, but at least she's still endorsing a Conservative if she went with Bachmann. Herman Cain could be a disappointment, as could any of our nominees, but he hasn't done anything to show us that, and if he is a disappointment I will call him out on it, and go with someone new in the next election, but I'm done with career politicians who have liberal blemishes on their records. I'll also support a different Conservative candidate like Bachmann, so I'm not stuck with Cain as the only nominee I will support. I will only support those I believe are Conservative who will try to change ALL of the most important things for the better, and I only see Cain and Bachmann as those willing to do that. I'm going with Herman Cain, but if Bachmann changes things around that's fine with me. I would like to see them both on the same ticket to be honest. A guy like Cain surprising us for the worse is much less likely than the guys like Romney, Perry, or Gingrich surprising us for the better. I don't know if they could surprise most of us for the “worst”, considering we know them, they definitely won't be the huge change this nation needs.

http://www.hermancain.com/home

609 posted on 11/25/2011 1:14:28 AM PST by ThermoNuclearWarrior (Support Herman Cain in the Republican Primary! Donate and Campaign for Herman Cain!)
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To: ThermoNuclearWarrior; All

I hope everyone saw this morning the Italian bond yields now going above 7%. The cry is now for the Germans to cry “uncle”, and accept 1. the UCB backstop FOR SOVEREIGN DEBT and 2. Give up on the austerity demands, 3. with it a higher rate of inflation, esp. in Germany.

What the _ _ _ _ , do you think is happening here, with NO AUSTERITY FOR THE FEDERAL GOVT. and it’s RICO PARTNERS?

How about them food prices all?

How about those SUSTAINED gas/fuel prices all?

How about those continuous easings all?

How about those out of control high sky govt. pensions?

How about them “writing their own ticket” with Phony-Care, where they are EXEMPT?

How about those insulated high salaries folks, protecting themselves from the prices above folks?

UNLESS THESE CANDIDATES, ALL OF THEM, will SIGN a LEGAL promise to EXEMPT EVERYONE from PHONY-CARE (designed to secure out of control govt. spending on everyone elses BACKS.. (It’s SERFDOM-slavery people,) IMMEDIATELY upon taking office, then I will NOT support ANY of them...

I WILL NOT accept “death by A THOUSAND CUTS.” !!!


610 posted on 11/25/2011 1:34:50 AM PST by Varsity Flight
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To: rabscuttle385; Democrat_media; Impy; BillyBoy; fieldmarshaldj; Clintonfatigued; mkjessup

” Name one genuine conservative Republican that I have bashed.”

How about NONE......EVER !!


611 posted on 11/25/2011 6:56:06 AM PST by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: rabscuttle385; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; WilliamHouston; kabar; sickoflibs; AuntB; Liz; ...

McCain (D-AZ)

LOL!! Good one Rabs : )


612 posted on 11/25/2011 6:59:07 AM PST by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: Democrat_media; SoConPubbie; rabscuttle385; All

” But democrats are worse as democrats are evil international socialists bent on destroying America and capitalism. Funny that rabscuttle and your little group do very little bashing of democrats or pointing out who they are.”

We don’t have to. Democrat politicians are ALL 100% SCUM. I’m worried about the “ bought and paid for “ WHORES in the GOP, and how to replace them.


613 posted on 11/25/2011 7:03:40 AM PST by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: ThermoNuclearWarrior

I’m not going to what the establishment Republicans expect me to do this time around no matter what.
______________________
I never do. I always vote for who I want not who they want, in the primaries. However, whoever is the GOP winner is who I will vote for. I will not sit home because that is the same as voting for Hussein and I want him OUT!


614 posted on 11/25/2011 9:19:24 AM PST by mojitojoe (SCOTUS.... think about that when you decide to sit home and pout because your candidate didn't win)
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To: ThermoNuclearWarrior

Sarah was my first choice, Bachman second then Cain. Sarah chose not to run(what a shame, I think she would be the front runner now), Bachman is just not going to make it, therefore at this time Cain is still my first choice but it’s early, I could change my mind. Romney is a NO for sure, as is Huntsman, so is loony Paul, but I will see how it plays out as it gets closer to the election. I won’t rule Perry out because I think if he was President he would close the border. He can’t do it now because DC hamstrings him. Newt, not sure he would do anything. Cain, honestly, not sure he would either. I also am going to take into consideration who could beat Hussein in the debates and the elections. Everyone has their own opinion and will do what they think is best. I respect that. It is their right to sit home or vote for whoever they choose. I just hope that when the imperfect candidate( there is NO perfect candidate)wins, that the ones that take their ball and go home think about what happens if Hussein gets another 4 years and 2 more Supreme Court nominations. Will America ever be able to recover? I highly doubt it. We have already given up so much..... so very much....


615 posted on 11/25/2011 9:34:36 AM PST by mojitojoe (SCOTUS.... think about that when you decide to sit home and pout because your candidate didn't win)
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To: mojitojoe
I am just sick of these candidates ignoring illegal immigration which is up there with the most important issues we are facing, and the only reason I can think of for these politicians being so out of touch with the voters on this issue is because of the pressure from the establishment Republicans who don't want to seriously act against illegal immigration for some reason.

They won't do anything serious about it even though it's one of the few extremely important issues that you have to be right on because it's a nation killer. Illegal immigration is the only one of those issues that's ignored, and treated completely different than the others, and it's going to take a lot to fix these few extremely important issues.

A candidate can disagree with me on everything, while taking these issues that our nations survival depends on in a serious manner, and I will support them. Not every issue is equal, and if you are wrong on one of the most important issues we face it kind of makes your other stances irrelevant. That's why I can't vote for most of the candidates though. They just can't seem to see the obvious when it comes to this issue for whatever reason.

I have always ended up voting for the Republican nominee like most, but I'm stopping it now even if Obama is literally the worst President in our history, because it just empowers the establishment by giving them the power to do what they please without any backlash from the voters. They do what they want without concern for what we want because they think they can depend on our vote against the democrat regardless of what they do.

I want Obama out as well, but I am sickened by the fact we aren't getting better Conservatives when the Conservative TEA party movement has shown to have real influence in recent elections, and Obama is going to be so weak. If we throw away our chance for something new and pick the same old career establishment politician then I don't have much hope for the nations future, and I can't support that person. I want Herman Cain to win because he has no establishment tied, but I could support Bachmann. That's about it.

Herman Cain is exactly what most of us Conservative TEA party people said we wanted in a candidate, but now we have the career politicians we were suppose to be replacing in contention. Cain might not be perfect, and he may have some unanswered questions, but he is something completely new that I am willing to take a chance with. He has talked Conservative on all the most important issues. At the very least his nomination would show the liberal media, and the establishment Republicans they don't have the power they once had, and we make the decision, not them.

http://www.hermancain.com/

616 posted on 11/25/2011 1:23:58 PM PST by ThermoNuclearWarrior (Support Herman Cain in the Republican Primary! Donate and Campaign for Herman Cain!)
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To: ThermoNuclearWarrior

BTTT


617 posted on 11/26/2011 3:17:44 AM PST by Earthdweller (Harvard won the election again...so what's the problem.......? Embrace a ruler today.)
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To: Mr. K
First and foremost- CUT OFF THE MIGRATION- lock down the border- then we figure out what to do with those that are here

Stop being reasonable. Stop it now. Conservatives don't look for solutions to problems. They whine.

618 posted on 11/26/2011 5:28:03 AM PST by AndyJackson
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To: DoughtyOne
Within ten years the property we just missed being able to purchase, increased 400% in value. That equity would have served my family incredibly well.

You tell a touching story that many of us can share in. But you the wrong culprits for this. The heroes of your story are Greenspan, Bernanke and the system of rapid expansion of credit/debt that they have fostered.

619 posted on 11/26/2011 5:41:05 AM PST by AndyJackson
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To: Democrat_media

Yes, Pat Buchanan has been right about everything but Israel, hasn’t he?


620 posted on 11/26/2011 9:10:32 AM PST by Theodore R. (Forget the others: It's Santorum's turn, articulate, passionate, less baggage.)
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To: stephenjohnbanker

Well, if you left that ol’ Dick Lugar off your list, bash away.


621 posted on 11/26/2011 9:13:03 AM PST by Theodore R. (Forget the others: It's Santorum's turn, articulate, passionate, less baggage.)
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To: rabscuttle385

If McPain were to see this headline, he might well take the hint. Supposedly, he had considered a party switch in 2004 to support John F. Kerry.


622 posted on 11/26/2011 9:15:53 AM PST by Theodore R. (Forget the others: It's Santorum's turn, articulate, passionate, less baggage.)
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To: Theodore R.

I have despised Dick Lugar, the globalist POS for many years.


623 posted on 11/26/2011 11:31:41 AM PST by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: MiddleEarth
"Call me crazy but I couldn’t do that to families either and I’m no Gingrich supporter. I don’t think it’s a magnet either because he’s talking about grandfathering these people in not that we would allow newcomers to stay.

I haven’t always believed this way. I just think that this country has always been about both justice AND mercy. It’s easy to be angry with them for sneaking into our country and using up our resources, I know that.

However, if they have helped this country and have been good people here and have made a life and love this country I think we can work with them going through the citizen process.

I agree. Especially since for the past 60 years or so illegal farmworkers have been beckoned here by the Gov and by Farms with virtually no hassles.

624 posted on 11/26/2011 1:18:07 PM PST by NoRedTape
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To: rabscuttle385

Yeah these guys are making it very hard to even hold your nose while voting anymore. I’m sick of every election having to do that anyway.


625 posted on 11/27/2011 12:56:10 AM PST by Zack Attack
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To: Ingtar

more Newt propsganda. This narcissist gives a crap
about humane and how Mexico blackmails illegals.

Humane? As in Stephanopoulos excusing a rapist as
“all too humane”?

Total anarchy and enablement of terror and perversaion. Fits that
Philandering Newt to a T, all after profiting from the Cain smear.

That is just rich. He reminds of the foster parent who does nothing
and let the kid molest his daughter.

Newt is unfit and a confused coward.


626 posted on 11/27/2011 5:57:34 PM PST by JudgemAll (Democrats Fed. job-security Whorocracy & hate:hypocrites must be gay like us or be tested/crucified)
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To: NoRedTape

Newt’s language of humane does not reflect the
values of character or firmness you talk about.

Illegals need no pro terrorist favoritism in their midst
and nor do we need it.


627 posted on 11/27/2011 6:06:23 PM PST by JudgemAll (Democrats Fed. job-security Whorocracy & hate:hypocrites must be gay like us or be tested/crucified)
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To: stephenjohnbanker

Indeed, it is those Rinos who attack conservatives, divide the party, instead of calling Zero and his terror gang of democrates.


628 posted on 11/27/2011 6:12:50 PM PST by JudgemAll (Democrats Fed. job-security Whorocracy & hate:hypocrites must be gay like us or be tested/crucified)
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To: Zack Attack

They talk about action and unity while they give
government favoritism through civil rights thus
allowing cover for terror.

This country should worry about INTEGRITY, it has none.


629 posted on 11/27/2011 6:17:11 PM PST by JudgemAll (Democrats Fed. job-security Whorocracy & hate:hypocrites must be gay like us or be tested/crucified)
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To: Democrat_media; rabscuttle385

Freepers don’t need to be told that Obama sucks, duh we already know.

Some freepers though need to be educated about RINOs.


630 posted on 11/28/2011 3:40:15 AM PST by Impy (Don't call me red.)
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To: stfassisi
Your answer is well thought out and appreciate your honesty in the way you answered this.  Thank you. 

Over the years I have noted that there was always a group out there that saw modern society as having reached it's current zenith by evil means.  I agree that man is sinful, but I also believe that many people try to do what is right by their fellow man.  So while I don't think it's appropriate to try to avoid the truth of some things that have taken place, I still think it is vital that we see these things in context, consider the knowledge of the day when things took place and other factors, not just the evil intent of man.  Another-words, what is actual truth?

Trying to achieve decent goals, can have devistating negative impact.  Introducing European disease to people that couldn't deal with it, was not an evil act.  If you look at the Western understanding of disease (and particularly communicable disease), in the day, it's startling to see how stupidly we protected ourselves in that era.

I also find it rather interesting that liberal dogma necessitates man's psychological need to invent god.  It doesn't dwell on or recognize man's psychological need to re-evaluate self, and often in a very unfavorable light.  We attribute evil intent sometimes wisely, and often-times not.  We see our forefathers as evil for doing certain things we do today, but don't see it as evil today.

We see a constant drumb-beat of negativity about slavery in the day and how we should be held accountable now, but hear nothing at all about slavery that takes place in Africa today.  The United States only accounted for a small percentage of the global slavery that took place in the era of slavery, but it is the only place in the world where the black populace is still trying to blame it's total failings on slavery.

There is only complexity of this issue because of man’s lack of ability to love others...

Man does not have an inability to love others.  U.S. citizens and corporations paid out $290 billion dollars in charitable giving in 2010.  LINK  Our government pays out approaching half a trillion dollars per year to U. S. citizens who supposedly need help, even if they don't.  We error on the side of handing out freebies in excess, simply so we won't be seen as uncaring.

We donate at church, at work, to the Salvation Army, to a myriad of concerns too numerous to mention.  We donate to local schools.  We donate on a whim if a neighbor or someone at work is going though a rough time.  If the school athletic team needs new equipment, we pitch in.  If the local symphony has a need, we pitch in.  If a homeless shelter needs help, we volunteer our time.

We do these things because we have an inherent drive to help others.  Please don't forget this in your haste to list the evils of man.  There is that too, but man is also a noble being.

...and respect the fact that the entire earth was open for everyone to live wherever one chooses too live.

As far back as recorded history goes, man has been known to be posessive and protective of territory.  Whether it be for hunting grounds, a safety parimiter, a collective area governed by the same sets of rules, man has found it necessary to be protective of his immediate environment.  If you have 200 people to feed and you have found a bountiful supply to keep them alive, is it reasoned to think you should allow another group to come in and start culling the herd so it won't meet your own community's needs?  These types of situations are bound to crop up.  It is not evidence of evil.  It is evidence of self-preservation.  Man's number one priority is self-preservation.  It is not evil.  The earth was never entirely wide open for anyone to inhabit, post sin.

It is only complex now because we have allowed greed to rule and we are now at a phase to protect the material things we have from others.

It would seem to me, that taken to it's full conclusion, you would state that man should have no worldly posessions.  Are we wrong to have civilization that is advanced technologically?  Is it wrong to have developed music, technology, and the sciences to the degree we have?  Should we have remained living in mud huts and dying early in life due to common mortal diseases we have found cures for?

Should we have shunned cars, airplanes, ships, telephones, television, the sciences, even though those things expanded our horizons?  If your child needs health care, are they the one we should refuse to use technology on?  Should we not send them to the hospital quickly, so they can be saved?  Should they dye at 32 because we don't know how to perform an appendectomy?  Where do we draw this sort of line?

Is it wrong for us to try to protect our homeland and our civilization?   Should we allow other cultures to swamp us, take what we have, and govern us as they see fit?

We are at the point were politics and laws can not solve this anywhere.

Not really, we aren't.  We are at the point where we have lost the will to live by civilized laws.  It doesn't have to be that way, and we are verging on total anarchy, due to the lack of a governing spine, but it doesn't have to be that way, and nobody in the end will benefit from the meltdown that is taking place.  Even those who are ushering it in, will pay a heavy toll under any replacement society.

I Pray for an event from God to help us, mankind has no answer.

Mankind has the same answer that served us well for over 200 years.  It wasn't perfect, but it was
light years better than what lies just ahead.

Satan has an answer too.  And right now, we're following his lead.

Man can choose to return to God, or he can sink back into the primordial muck, anything goes and no law will be seen as good and ultimate anarchy will exist.

If that takes place, it won't take generations to condemn what we have ushered in.  The darkness that will enshroud this old world would make the post apocalyptic zombie movies look tame.

631 posted on 11/28/2011 12:57:46 PM PST by DoughtyOne (Romney, Newt, any chance whatsoever you might sometime pander to U.S. Citizens vs the illegals?)
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas

Thank you. I believe everyone in our society has been harmed far more than they realize.

This is not an innocent, nobody gets hurt, type of crime.


632 posted on 11/28/2011 1:00:48 PM PST by DoughtyOne (Romney, Newt, any chance whatsoever you might sometime pander to U.S. Citizens vs the illegals?)
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To: AndyJackson

I appreciate your take on it, but around 1982, my son was one of about three children in his class that was White. The room was run by the illegal immigrant children, and they ganged up on my kid during recess breaks too.

This was not a problem of easy credit. It was a problem of easy criminality at the local level.


633 posted on 11/28/2011 1:18:10 PM PST by DoughtyOne (Romney, Newt, any chance whatsoever you might sometime pander to U.S. Citizens vs the illegals?)
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To: DoughtyOne

Look,dear friend, I was being very vague and a little cynical in my responses. I thought you might have picked up om that.

I guess I need to explain further.

There is goodness in many people ,not just Americans. Many have been brainwashed into thinking that just giving to charities and the other things you mentioned are somehow better than the person who gives a cool glass of water to a thirsty beggar on the street.

It’s not the amount given,it’s the intent of genuine love for others. I believe it was Saint Francis Xavier who said “we should serve the poor as if we are their slaves”

People like Soros give large amounts of money away, but it’s to fit his personal agenda and not for love of others

As for material things and technology... these things are good as long as they don’t become materialism,consumerism and lead us cherish these things and become golden calf’s in our life.

You’re correct when you say that things don’t have to be the way they are right now but the reality is that there is so much divisiveness in the world right now that working towards common good seems unachievable since people don’t even have a clue what authentic common good towards love is and confuse it with socialism ,gay rights,and all the other moral atrocities etc..

St. Clement of Alexandria said the following...

A person does good through love.

His actions are not motivated by desire for personal benefit, so he does not have personal advantage as his aim. But as soon as he has realized the beauty of doing good, he does it with all his energies and in all that he does.

He is not interested in fame, or a good reputation, or a human or divine reward.

The rule of life for a perfect person is to be in the image and likeness of God.

—St. Clement of Alexandria


634 posted on 11/28/2011 3:36:02 PM PST by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: stfassisi
Look,dear friend, I was being very vague and a little cynical in my responses. I thought you might have picked up om that.  Not trying to be difficult here, but did you expect me to let your comments stand without responding?  How am I supposed to know where your vagueness and cyncism start and leave off.  I tried to respond in generic terms, not trying to be confrontational.

I guess I need to explain further.  Okay...

There is goodness in many people ,not just Americans.   This is a commonly held view, and to a point it is accurate.  Still, in overall terms, it's a misleading statement.  One would have us believe that the people in the U.S. give no more than the people of other nations do, but that isn't the case.

Q. Are Americans more or less charitable than citizens of other countries?

A. No developed country approaches American giving. For example, in 1995 (the most recent year for which data are available), Americans gave, per capita, three and a half times as much to causes and charities as the French, seven times as much as the Germans, and 14 times as much as the Italians. Similarly, in 1998, Americans were 15 percent more likely to volunteer their time than the Dutch, 21 percent more likely than the Swiss, and 32 percent more likely than the Germans. These differences are not attributable to demographic characteristics such as education, income, age, sex, or marital status. On the contrary, if we look at two people who are identical in all these ways except that one is European and the other American, the probability is still far lower that the European will volunteer than the American.

LINK

Many have been brainwashed into thinking that just giving to charities and the other things you mentioned are somehow better than the person who gives a cool glass of water to a thirsty beggar on the street.

Please note the part of the above clipping in red.  Americans do voluteer their time, and at rates far in excess of people in other nations.

It’s not the amount given,it’s the intent of genuine love for others. I believe it was Saint Francis Xavier who said “we should serve the poor as if we are their slaves”

That's a very nice well intended comment.  I do not however think that as a father or mother, people should be serving the poor as if they were their slaves.  Charitable giving in reasoned amounts is good.  Volunteering is fine.  So is supporting your family through attendence in their efforts.  So is sitting on your posterior and clearing your mind during the week.  Keeping in close contact with your children's activities, whether it be studies or extra-curricular activites is also serving the Lord.  Spending time with the family in other ways is also healthy.

People like Soros give large amounts of money away, but it’s to fit his personal agenda and not for love of others

Soros gives money away to his tax deductable non-profits.  It isn't charitable giving.  Whether he claims his donations on his tax returns or not, it is agenda driven.  It's not to help the poor, and more often than not it's focused on toppling reasoned Western governments, as opposed to socialist totalitarian ones.

As for material things and technology... these things are good as long as they don’t become materialism,consumerism and lead us cherish these things and become golden calf’s in our life.

Okay, well, I am willing to concede that these things can become a golden calf in our life, but it's a real slipery slope when folks start talking about materalism and consumerism.  People create products.  Consumers buy them.  This employs people and allows us not only to free up more time to spend with family or volunteer, it can also lead us to have enriched lives.  Some folks think of television as a materialst consumer item.  It's also a very educational device.  It can also provide a few hours for folks to relax in the evening.  Who is to judge this?

You’re correct when you say that things don’t have to be the way they are right now but the reality is that there is so much divisiveness in the world right now that working towards common good seems unachievable since people don’t even have a clue what authentic common good towards love is and confuse it with socialism ,gay rights,and all the other moral atrocities etc..

Well, I agree with this in part.  I do however think the vast majority realizes that closing banks, shutting down Wall Street, disolving corporations, and talking away 75% of a working man's salary is a very poor plan for the future.  Now, do we turn the reigns of our nation over to a small contingent of rabble-rousers?  Do we let them make all the decisions for our future?  This isn't even close to a gray area issue.

St. Clement of Alexandria said the following...  You actually put me in an awkward position here, because I don't have a penchant for taking these individuals to task.  I still think there is plenty of reason to object to some of these simplistic platitudes.

A person does good through love.  A person can also do good out of respect.  A person can do good out of personal responsibility, sans love.   I don't believe that people can only do good out of or through love.

His actions are not motivated by desire for personal benefit, so he does not have personal advantage as his aim.  While this sounds good on the face of it, it is patently irrational bordering on the absurd.

What is the general obligation of an adult?  Isn't it to grow up to be a good person, develop a relationship with someone of the opposite sex, get married, establish a home with them, bring forth children into this world, raise them to be good citizens to replace us, and eventually die when our righteous life is spent?  It's my take that a Christ centered life should be part of this.  It's my take that we should share our success with our church, our community, our government, and a cross section of charitable organizations.  Personal advantage is a part of this equasion.  Joseph worked to put a roof over his family's head.  He provided for them.  He did not completely remove personal benefit from his life.

It is also a fact that the more successful we are, the more we can monetarily support good causes.  And while it is true that wealthy people pay less as a percentage than people who make less, it also amounts to more money.  It is not a sign of sin for people to seek to achieve success.

But as soon as he has realized the beauty of doing good, he does it with all his energies and in all that he does.

I'm not going to argue with this, but I will state that I don't think charity becomes our primary motivating goal that drives everything else we do.

He is not interested in fame, or a good reputation, or a human or divine reward.  LOL, so the good man is not supposed to care if his character is viewed favorably by the community or not.  He is not supposed to care if his activities will represent Christianity in a good light.  He is not supposed to care if he will go to heaven or not.  Wow, good to know.

The rule of life for a perfect person is to be in the image and likeness of God.

So we should all wear robes, walk everywhere we go, live only at the largess of others, never earn an income, never have any posessions...  Is this really what you think God wants every Christian to live like?  I don't think so.

—St. Clement of Alexandria


635 posted on 11/28/2011 5:30:57 PM PST by DoughtyOne (Romney, Newt, any chance whatsoever you might sometime pander to U.S. Citizens vs the illegals?)
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To: DoughtyOne
Please note the part of the above clipping in red. Americans do voluteer their time, and at rates far in excess of people in other nations.

This only proves that we need to puff ourselves up. A true giver hides what they do from statistics and are not counted by them

That's a very nice well intended comment. I do not however think that as a father or mother, people should be serving the poor as if they were their slaves. Charitable giving in reasoned amounts is good. Volunteering is fine. So is supporting your family through attendence in their efforts. So is sitting on your posterior and clearing your mind during the week. Keeping in close contact with your children's activities, whether it be studies or extra-curricular activites is also serving the Lord. Spending time with the family in other ways is also healthy.

I know people that do all these things you say and still serve the poor as if they are slaves to them.

What does that make you? Lazy?

Soros gives money away to his tax deductable non-profits.

And somehow you think that many of the people in the statistics you posted don't do the same

You actually put me in an awkward position here, because I don't have a penchant for taking these individuals to task. I still think there is plenty of reason to object to some of these simplistic platitudes.

Compared to Saint Clement it is you who are simplistic. I doubt anyone will quote D-one from FR as being some scholar of love and knowledge, I also doubt anyone would quote me either

While this sounds good on the face of it, it is patently irrational bordering on the absurd.

At some point in your life you will be thought of as a nothing so it would be better to let go of your pride now while you can

It is also a fact that the more successful we are, the more we can monetarily support good causes.

Complete nonsense. People like Saint Padre Pio did more for the poor than you or I or will ever do

I will pray that the fall you're headed for is lessened

636 posted on 11/28/2011 7:19:01 PM PST by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: stfassisi

Wal Mart has done more for the poor than Mother Teresa, who preached a slave morality that keeps the poor poor, while flying around in jets paid for by nefarious individuals.


637 posted on 11/28/2011 7:22:12 PM PST by Clemenza ("History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil governm)
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To: JudgemAll

I find Newt scary. His stance on illegal aliens is revealing of a dark side. There is supposed to be a dvd (maybe from the John Birch Society) that supposedly can be devastating for him. Does anybody know what it is?


638 posted on 11/28/2011 7:25:30 PM PST by Jane Austen (Boycott the Philadelphia Eagles!)
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To: Clemenza

Hell awaits you.


639 posted on 11/28/2011 7:59:18 PM PST by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: Clemenza

Big Man.

Pick on a women who held dying children in her arms offering love while you sit on your but doing nothing.

Love bothers evil people!


640 posted on 11/28/2011 8:13:32 PM PST by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: Clemenza
Image of people who hide behind computer that glorifies the mafia and picks on Mother Teresa

;
641 posted on 11/28/2011 8:35:54 PM PST by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: stfassisi

LOL. Actually, I lost 30 pounds, and have a bit more hair. Nice to see you took the bait, St. Fascismo.


642 posted on 11/28/2011 8:37:35 PM PST by Clemenza ("History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil governm)
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To: Clemenza

The mafia lovers adore the fascist. Look no further thsn your homepage , smartguy


643 posted on 11/28/2011 8:42:32 PM PST by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: DoughtyOne
The room was run by the illegal immigrant children, and they ganged up on my kid during recess breaks too.

I think this group would fall into the cateory that I would cut off and depart, somewhere between category 1 - the felons and category 2- the welfare queens.

644 posted on 11/29/2011 6:12:01 AM PST by AndyJackson
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To: Clemenza
I think you just strapped on a bomb, stepped out into the public square and blowed yourself up, real good.

You might as well get a new screen name, because you are never ever ever going to live down that statement.

645 posted on 11/29/2011 6:17:30 AM PST by AndyJackson
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To: stfassisi
Please note the part of the above clipping in red. Americans do voluteer their time, and at rates far in excess of people in other nations.

This only proves that we need to puff ourselves up. A true giver hides what they do from statistics and are not counted by them.

You stated that people in other natioins were just as generous with their funds as the people in the United States are.  I knew that was wrong and I found something to buttress my beliefs.  Then you morphed the topic to what a 'true believer' should do.  Puffing ourselves up?  Wow!  Charitable organizations are audited.  They report to the IRS.  It's public record what their receipts are.

As for claiming donations on your tax return to lessen your tax obligations, what's wrong with that?  Would you rather the federal government get the funds to squander rather than good causes.

Other than these factors, I have no idea what you're talking about when you say folks need to puff themselves up, and need to hide what they give.  I don't know anyone personally who brags about how much they give.  Evidently you run in different circles than I do.

That's a very nice well intended comment. I do not however think that as a father or mother, people should be serving the poor as if they were their slaves. Charitable giving in reasoned amounts is good. Volunteering is fine. So is supporting your family through attendence in their efforts. So is sitting on your posterior and clearing your mind during the week. Keeping in close contact with your children's activities, whether it be studies or extra-curricular activites is also serving the Lord. Spending time with the family in other ways is also healthy.

I know people that do all these things you say and still serve the poor as if they are slaves to them.  No you don't.  If you're being a slave to charitable organizations, some other aspect of your life will suffer.

What does that make you? Lazy?  It makes me a well rounded individual.  "..moderation in all things..."  Ring any bells?

Soros gives money away to his tax deductable non-profits.

And somehow you think that many of the people in the statistics you posted don't do the same  The people I know give money to concerns that benefit people in need.  Soros gives to organizations that will manipulate our system of government, our society for the worse.  Sadly, you couldn't understand this on your own, evidently.

You actually put me in an awkward position here, because I don't have a penchant for taking these individuals to task. I still think there is plenty of reason to object to some of these simplistic platitudes.

Compared to Saint Clement it is you who are simplistic. I doubt anyone will quote D-one from FR as being some scholar of love and knowledge, I also doubt anyone would quote me either

My comments stand.  I'm not here to have folks quote me.  I am here to express my thoughts.  There's nothing evil about that.  If my thoughts do awaken folks to the idea that their number one responsibility on this earth is their family, then friends, then others, all the better.  Outside activity, including charitable giving and volunteerism comes second to that.  God does not expect me to put my close associates on the back burner.

While this sounds good on the face of it, it is patently irrational bordering on the absurd. <> At some point in your life you will be thought of as a nothing so it would be better to let go of your pride now while you can  When people grow up, they realize what others think about them is not important.  What is important is what you think of yourself.  What is important is that you can look back on your life and see value to what you have done.  Of course God and others should figure prominantly in that vision, but that is what is important in life.

It is also a fact that the more successful we are, the more we can monetarily support good causes.

Complete nonsense. People like Saint Padre Pio did more for the poor than you or I or will ever do  How would you know this?  According to you, people who do good works should do them in private?  Obviously he does it for recognition, and isn't truly a good person.  /s  Do you begin to see the absurdity of your own comments?

I will pray that the fall you're headed for is lessened  I have no problem with that.  I would simply suggest you pray for personal enlightenment as well.


646 posted on 11/29/2011 9:46:16 AM PST by DoughtyOne (Romney, Newt, any chance whatsoever you might sometime pander to U.S. Citizens vs the illegals?)
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To: AndyJackson

I hear ya.


647 posted on 11/29/2011 10:00:09 AM PST by DoughtyOne (Romney, Newt, any chance whatsoever you might sometime pander to U.S. Citizens vs the illegals?)
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To: DoughtyOne
You stated that people in other natioins were just as generous with their funds as the people in the United States are. I knew that was wrong and I found something to buttress my beliefs. Then you morphed the topic to what a 'true believer' should do. Puffing ourselves up? Wow!

If you bothered to read what I wrote(or you're suffering memory loss-sarcasm)I did not mention funds as the only means of generosity,I mentioned generosity as acts like giving a poor person a glass of water and stated in post #634 that it's not the amount given that matters. So, it is you who morphs everything into terms of funds. WOW!:-)

You said.."No you don't." to me, referring that somehow I don't know people who serve the poor as if they are slaves to them along with doing other family activities and other things you mentioned.

You're wrong ,I do know people like this. Do you realize FR has rules against saying someone lied in personal matters that can't be disputed?

It makes me a well rounded individual. "..moderation in all things.

Puffing yourself up again? Some words of wisdom for you.. love builds up but pride puffs up

You Said,referring to Saint Pio...How would you know this? According to you, people who do good works should do them in private?

The beauty of those who serve God humbly through extreme acts of love for others is that people witness these things because they transform lives of people- even though the one who loves others to such extremes wants no recognition whatsoever

Saint Pio would say the following to people's lives touched by him or by a miracle... "Please don't thank me ,thank God for this...All I did was pray for you"-Saint Pio

You may have the last word,dear brother. There is no need to continue.

I will pray for you at Adoration this Thursday

648 posted on 11/29/2011 3:55:14 PM PST by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: AndyJackson

To paraphrase Meir Kehane, I only say what alot of people think, but are afraid to say due to upper middle class political correctness. If you think that Jose and Maria and their feral children look at you as a “brother” you are deluding yourself.


649 posted on 11/29/2011 6:06:21 PM PST by Clemenza ("History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil governm)
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To: Clemenza
Your words were "Wal Mart has done more for the poor than Mother Teresa, who preached a slave morality ..."

What does this irrelevant spiteful rant have to do with Jose and Maria. Like I said, you blowed yourself up. Real good.

650 posted on 11/30/2011 5:52:53 AM PST by AndyJackson
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