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Cesium from Fukushima plant fell all over Japan (3rd highest: Shinjuku, Tokyo)
Asahi Japan Watch ^ | 11/26/11 | HIROSHI ISHIZUKA

Posted on 11/26/2011 4:33:04 PM PST by TigerLikesRooster

Cesium from Fukushima plant fell all over Japan

November 26, 2011

By HIROSHI ISHIZUKA / Staff Writer

Radioactive substances from the crippled Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant have now been confirmed in all prefectures, including Uruma, Okinawa Prefecture, about 1,700 kilometers from the plant, according to the science ministry.

The ministry said it concluded the radioactive substances came from the stricken nuclear plant because, in all cases, they contained cesium-134, which has short half-life of two years.

Before the March 11 Great East Japan Earthquake, radioactive substance were barely detectable in most areas.

But the Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology's survey results released on Nov. 25 showed that fallout from the Fukushima plant has spread across Japan. The survey covered the cumulative densities of radioactive substances in dust that fell into receptacles during the four months from March through June.

Figures were not available for Miyagi and Fukushima prefectures, where the measurement equipment was rendered inoperable by the March 11 disaster.

/snip

The highest combined cumulative density of radioactive cesium-134 and cesium-137 was found in Hitachinaka, Ibaraki Prefecture, at 40,801 becquerels per square meter. That was followed by 22,570 becquerels per square meter in Yamagata, the capital of Yamagata Prefecture, and 17,354 becquerels per square meter in Tokyo's Shinjuku Ward.

(Excerpt) Read more at ajw.asahi.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Japan; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: cesium; fallout; fukushima; radiation
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1 posted on 11/26/2011 4:33:07 PM PST by TigerLikesRooster
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To: TigerLikesRooster; sushiman; Ronin; AmericanInTokyo; gaijin; struggle; DTogo; GATOR NAVY; Iris7; ...

P!


2 posted on 11/26/2011 4:33:53 PM PST by TigerLikesRooster (The way to crush the bourgeois is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Wait a minute, when this plant was melting down someone told me the problem was no worse than the radiation from the sun.


3 posted on 11/26/2011 4:36:02 PM PST by gunsequalfreedom (Conservative is not a label of convenience. It is a guide to your actions.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Thank you VERY much for keeping up with this. I don’t reply much but I appreciate your pings.

Dreadful, horrible, no words are sufficient.

:-(


4 posted on 11/26/2011 4:40:34 PM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Well, unless you’re going to evacuate Japan, no sense worrying about it now.


5 posted on 11/26/2011 4:44:32 PM PST by Larry Lucido
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To: TigerLikesRooster

What results are predicted?


6 posted on 11/26/2011 4:45:56 PM PST by Big Horn (Rebuild the GOP to a conservative party)
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To: gunsequalfreedom

They might have been right. Jury is still out.

But as I stated in my prior post, unless you’re going to relocate everyone in Japan, might as well relax.


7 posted on 11/26/2011 4:45:58 PM PST by Larry Lucido
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To: gunsequalfreedom
when this plant was melting down someone told me the problem was no worse than the radiation from the sun.

Not just that but that radiation exposure was a good thing.

8 posted on 11/26/2011 4:47:51 PM PST by bgill (The Obama administration is staging a coup. Wake up, America, before it's too late.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

I am amazed that the truth got out - TEPCO and some parts of the government seemed so determined to prevent people from knowing about this. Wonder how the shell shocked populace will react. Prayers for the people of Japan.


9 posted on 11/26/2011 4:49:34 PM PST by ransomnote
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To: bgill

Yea, you heard that too? What am I to believe now...

Same as I did then.

These nukes are not safe.


10 posted on 11/26/2011 4:50:18 PM PST by gunsequalfreedom (Conservative is not a label of convenience. It is a guide to your actions.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

I’ve been to Shinjuku. It’s just barely west of Tokyo. What that map seems to show is NOT what the headline says. Or vice versa.


11 posted on 11/26/2011 4:59:17 PM PST by willgolfforfood
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To: Larry Lucido

They might have been right. Jury is still out.

But as I stated in my prior post, unless you’re going to relocate everyone in Japan, might as well relax.

_____________________________________________

I always wondered what nuclear shills would say if the scope of damage caused by a completely selfish, indifferent nuclear power industry and its bff (gov) was exposed. Your ‘let them eat cake’ answer is a perfect illustration of the nuke shill level of avarice.

Oh I imagine that those living near Fukushima who were told NOT to give their children potassium iodide might want to ‘do’ something to those who prevented their children from employing measures in place meant to protect their thyroids. And why were they told NOT to distribute potassium iodide? Why was SPEEDI data withheld? Oh lots and lots of questions need to be answered and people living in highly contaminated zones just might want to move their children to less contaminated zones. Then they’ll want to learn all they can, medically and practically,from those living in the aftermath of the last massive nuclear power industry disaster (Chernobyl)for which the nuclear power industry still refuses responsibility and lies about and they may want to look at other power plants they built on seismically active zones in Japan. They may want to, oh I don’t know, get rid of the liars and thieves who refuse to accept responsibility for the unspeakable damage caused.

Your “jury is still out” actually convened over 25 years ago in the Ukraine. We have decades of medical proof showing the disease and illness caused by living in regions contaminated by radioactive cesium.


12 posted on 11/26/2011 5:03:18 PM PST by ransomnote
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To: ransomnote

And now for some good nuke news...
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2016866631_japanreactors27.html

“TOKYO — After 34 years, the United States is expected to resume construction of nuclear reactors by the end of the year, and Toshiba will export turbine equipment for the reactors to the U.S. early next month, it was learned Saturday...
Following the meltdowns at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear-power plant, the NRC placed priority on safety assessments for existing nuclear-power plants, delaying the screening of new projects.

No construction on reactors has been carried out in the United States since January 1978.”

34 years of paralyzing superstition! Ain’t modern society grand?


13 posted on 11/26/2011 5:06:23 PM PST by mrsmith
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To: mrsmith

So, you’re looking at a map showing Japan coated with radioactive cesium and you think people who hope to avoid having their country coated in radioactive cesium are ‘superstitious’?

I wonder if the extent to which radioactive cesium from Japan fell in the US will be exposed before the end of the year or not?


14 posted on 11/26/2011 5:11:15 PM PST by ransomnote
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Guess those wonderful neon lights of Shinjuku are gonna be glowing just a tad brighter than before....


15 posted on 11/26/2011 5:11:23 PM PST by Jack Hammer
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To: mrsmith; Larry Lucido

Did you...even for one tiny moment...have a little flicker of compassion for what the Japanese face when you read this article...before you went to get that pro nuclear lobby link? Is it possible that you hope to capitalize on the tragedy of the Japanese somehow? Because I really am taken aback by your decision to gleefully post that the nuclear power industry is pushing ahead in this country without acknowledging what it has done to the country of Japan.

Notice the nuke power industry simply denies Chernobyl a) had victims and b) still has victims and c) will have victims for countless generations? With your ‘yippee we get more money!...I mean...another power plant!’ post ill-placed here, you along with Larry Lucido are blazing another trail - you plan to behave as if the nuclear power industry a) did not harm the future of an entire nation and b) continues to feel a great sense of entitlement to the right to harm other nations.

Wish you cared about the Japanese half as much as you care about nuclear power. Prayers for the people of Japan.


16 posted on 11/26/2011 5:18:13 PM PST by ransomnote
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To: gunsequalfreedom
These nukes are not safe.

Nuclear energy is safe when used properly. The issue at Fukushima-Daiichi was an old plant design without safeguards in the event of a natural disaster of the magnitude that struck it. If they had improved the automatic shutdown systems some time over the last 40 years or so, there wouldn’t be an issue right now.

Nuclear energy is the cleanest, most efficient form of energy available to humanity. It makes as much sense to get rid of nuclear power as it does to convert huge tracts of otherwise habitable land into low-efficiency solar or wind farms as the environuts want to do.
17 posted on 11/26/2011 5:24:20 PM PST by Terpfen (Any candidate is better than Obama. Any.)
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To: ransomnote

If Japan also foregoes a generation of nuclear energy production , as we did after TMI, I assume you’ll be ecstatic ‘Mr Sympathy’.


18 posted on 11/26/2011 5:34:21 PM PST by mrsmith
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To: Terpfen

Nuclear energy is the cleanest, most efficient form of energy available to humanity.


ransomnote: And you are posting this on a thread displaying a map showing the entire nation of Japan coated with radiation?

______________________________________________________

If they had improved the automatic shutdown systems some time over the last 40 years or so, there wouldn’t be an issue right now.

_______________________________________________________

ransomnote: How grand of you to theorize in defense of nuke power. So you have decided your prophesy will exonerate the nuke power industry by implying the old ‘if only the peasants would let the nuke power industry build more and newer plants’!
Incompetence and mismanagement in the nuke power industry is entrenched and heavily defended and is responsible for Fukushim and Chernobyl. TEPCO was in trouble for lying about safety inspections (and publicly admitted it) BEFORE the disaster. TEPCO and Japan ignored research showing that the plant was in a seismically active area and exposed to risk of tsunami etc. Did you read how TEPCO rewarded an employee for concealing a flaw to a containment vessel which allowed TEPCO to save millions of dollars? I did! That vessel was bound for reactor 4 - I wonder what would have happened if it were in place when the earthquake hit - even with modern ‘shutdown’ capacity? What about placing all those nuke plants so close together and spent fuel held aloft so no one can get close enough to keep water in the spent fuel pool as the area becomes more radioactive? If a spent fuel pool fails from continued seismic activity - no one will be able to get near the other spent fuel pools to maintain them. How about the fact that Japan built the worlds largest nuclear power plant in the world without realizing that it was placed atop a seismic fault?
Once something goes wrong - nuke power companies like TEPCO simply refuse to cooperate with the public interest but just circle the wagons and the government helps lie and cover for them because the government is their insurer. Tell me, how is the insurer stepping up to the plate in japan? Did you read that TEPCO asserts that radioactive cesium is the responsibility of the landowner and does not ‘belong’ to TEPCO. I did. These are just a few of the incompetent, vile mismanagement aspects of the nuclear power industry (responsible for Fukushima) that modern ‘shutdown systems’ would not address.


19 posted on 11/26/2011 5:39:44 PM PST by ransomnote
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To: mrsmith

That is awesome news, if true.


20 posted on 11/26/2011 5:42:14 PM PST by Larry Lucido
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To: ransomnote

An updated design would have made Fukushima even safer. Any residual fallout is purely the fault of the neoluddites. May they be damned.


21 posted on 11/26/2011 5:44:24 PM PST by Larry Lucido
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To: TigerLikesRooster

sad but good ping, thank you.

Oh man.....

:(


22 posted on 11/26/2011 5:56:36 PM PST by gaijin
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To: ransomnote
And you are posting this on a thread displaying a map showing the entire nation of Japan coated with radiation?

The entire world is coated with radiation. It comes from the sun, it comes from outer space, or it occurs naturally in the planet. The difference is the matter of degree. The amount on the map is not some huge cancer-causing spike. Japan is not suddenly going to break out in lesions and have people wither away from radiation poisoning, nor will their long-term cancer rate increase.

You lack perspective, primarily because you know little or nothing of the topic, and thus you’re forced to phrase your protests in the form of questions. You don’t know, therefore it’s Wrong And Must Be Banned™.
23 posted on 11/26/2011 5:58:52 PM PST by Terpfen (Any candidate is better than Obama. Any.)
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To: Larry Lucido

Isn’t it?
Of all the evils the baby boom generation has done to this nation, the moratorium on Nuke plant construction may have been our worst.


24 posted on 11/26/2011 6:12:35 PM PST by mrsmith
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To: TigerLikesRooster

We should know in the next few generations what the genetic results are from extreme doses of radioactivity are, especially in Japan....its sad...


25 posted on 11/26/2011 6:42:35 PM PST by goat granny
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To: Terpfen
Nuclear energy is safe when used properly. The issue at Fukushima-Daiichi was an old plant design without safeguards in the ...

Were you the one telling me the Fukushima-Daiichi plant was not a problem as it was exploding?

Nukes are inherently unsafe. Conditions that caused the problems at Fukushima-Daiichi might not repeat themselves at another nuke plant in the U.S., but other unforeseen conditions can.

The argument that because conditions do not exist here that were present at Fukushima-Daiichi is fallacious logic.

26 posted on 11/26/2011 7:05:32 PM PST by gunsequalfreedom (Conservative is not a label of convenience. It is a guide to your actions.)
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To: willgolfforfood

I live in walking distance from Shinjuku.


27 posted on 11/26/2011 7:25:43 PM PST by Ronin (If we were serious about using the death penalty as a deterrent, we would bring back public hangings)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

That map was mostly the result of a few days fallout washed out by the rain after the great quake struck then the wind changed and sent a majority of the fallout over the pacific ocean and onward around the world.

They haven’t capped the melted cores as of yet and the corium(s) still spew their radioactive poisons.

Not a very cost effective way to produce power besides lifetime storage of spent radioactive fuels to deal with in a normal operations, not even considering repercussions to human life after a disaster such as this.


28 posted on 11/26/2011 7:34:41 PM PST by Razzz42
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To: gunsequalfreedom
Were you the one telling me the Fukushima-Daiichi plant was not a problem as it was exploding?

I don’t recall ever replying to you before, so, probably no.

The argument that because conditions do not exist here that were present at Fukushima-Daiichi is fallacious logic.

Good thing I’m not making that argument at all!
29 posted on 11/26/2011 7:43:40 PM PST by Terpfen (Any candidate is better than Obama. Any.)
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To: gunsequalfreedom

Or the same as eating a couple bananas a day, that was a very popular comparison.


30 posted on 11/26/2011 7:49:12 PM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell.)
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To: Terpfen

Terpfen: The entire world is coated with radiation. It comes from the sun.....

____________________________________________

ransomnote: I remember Saturday Night Live doing a skit about nuclear engineers (Dan Akroyd) trying to downplay a meltdown by insisting reporters covering the disaster report the amount of radiation released as ‘sunshine units’. The audience howled with laughter at this pathetic attempt to portray incompetence on the part of the nuclear power industry as resulting in the release of something natural like ‘sunshine units’. Didn’t really stop you did it? Now you know that sunshine includes energy in the form of gamma radiation. This radiation causes skin cancer so we try to reduce the amount of harmful radiation from the sun that we are exposed to while still benefiting from the other energy present in sunlight. How does this have anything to do with TEPCO’s reactors blowing radioactive isotopes, not just the energy from the isotopes, all over the country where they will be exposing the populace to released energy, be consumed where the isotopes can do greater damage to tissues 24/7 (unlike sunlight) and be inhaled where they can damage lungs (unlike sunlight)? I don’t think you have a sufficient background in science to understand why your attempts to compare the fukushima contaminants to radiation from the sun or outer space - either way you look bad because you are either under qualified to understand the mechanics or you know exactly why your comparison is deceptive and pathetic and you are hoping the rest of us don’t.

____________________

Terpen: The amount on the map is not some huge cancer-causing spike. Japan is not suddenly going to break out in lesions and have people wither away from radiation poisoning, nor will their long-term cancer rate increase.

ransomnote: You haven’t impressed me with your scientific knowledge so I’ll continue to rely upon the National Academy of Sciences BEIR VII report which indicates that there is no safe threshold below which exposure to radiation is safe. I’ll also rely upon the results of the nuke industry’s last large scale catastrophe prior to Fukushima - that’s right, I am talking about Chernobyl. That disaster is not over - countless people continue to suffer countless dibilitating or lethal effects from the disaster - there are other health impacts aside from only cancer and leukemia to consider. Here’s a comprehensive report compiled by scientists pushing back against pro nuke organizations like the IAEA who were trying to downplay the effects of Chernobyl:
http://www.strahlentelex.de/Yablokov%20Chernobyl%20book.pdf

Here’s a wiki page about the report itself:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl:_Consequences_of_the_Catastrophe_for_People_and_the_Environment

So I don’t need to reference your lies or ignorance when you opine that there won’t be spikes in cancer in Japan and that natural sources of radiant energy like the sun only differ in degree from the widespread dissemination of radioactive isotopes in Japan - those same isotopes which have been documented damaging and continuing to damage the victims of Chernobyl. No, instead I can reference valid scientific research that tells me the nuke industry is responsible for damaging countless generations of innocent people.

Your behavior illustrates why I now have no hope that the nuke industry will ever correct the weaknesses in its organization - it doesn’t care and it doesn’t want to. I’ve seen nuke pimps insist NOT ONE PERSON DIED FROM CHERNOBYL. This is a lie of epic proportions but it encapsulates the philosophy of losers like you: Never admit, never accept responsibility - always assume the public are child like and easily driven. Just as the IAEA and other pro nuke organizations and individuals have invested their lives in distorting the truth about Chernobyl, so are these same players already hard at work trying to deny Fukushima even exists. There’s an almost complete media black out on the fact that Fukushima’s molten reactor fuel has escaped containment, no one knows how to contain it as it’s never been done before, it continues to pump radioactive contaminants into the air around the clock for the foreseeable future. The public is just now beginning to learn the extent of the lies TEPCO and the government facilitators have been telling the public. No wonder nuke pimps want to screech ‘nothing to see here! move along!’

What’s new to me - something I didn’t believe I’d see - is bloodless nuke pimps showing up and posting their trash on a thread that had to be painful news for people directly affected by all this. Why couldn’t you save your trash for other threads? Why did you have to come here where some people’s hearts will break to see the map showing the long lasting damage. You just couldn’t leave them in peace, could you?


31 posted on 11/26/2011 9:39:24 PM PST by ransomnote
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To: Terpfen

Say, did you even read this part of the article?

“Before the March 11 Great East Japan Earthquake, radioactive substance were barely detectable in most areas.”

Substance....not radiation from sunlight. If you are well grounded enough to discuss radiation then you were intentionally being deceptive.


32 posted on 11/26/2011 9:41:14 PM PST by ransomnote
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To: ransomnote

I would be much more concerned about the effects of some of the bad sunburns I had as a kid than the effects of any new post-disaster background radiation to be found in Japan.


33 posted on 11/26/2011 9:56:19 PM PST by The Duke
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To: The Duke

The radioactive cesium is in the food supply - it’s not agreeing to stay low or in the background. It’s been detected in beef, wheat, produce, and tea crops. So while the background radiation increase is physically damaging to human health, they also have to worry about eating, drinking and breathing isotopes. Japan isn’t helping them out by burning radioactive waste which puts the isotopes back into the air but then they have three molten fuel cores that are now somewhere below the reactors and are freely putting contaminants into the air for the foreseeable future. So the problem is not limited to the unfortunate increase in background radiation, damaging as that is. There’s alot of speculation about what might happen if/when the molten cores reach japan’s water table.


34 posted on 11/26/2011 10:43:57 PM PST by ransomnote
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To: ransomnote
All these, and much worse, things already happened in Chernobyl 25 years ago, and no damage has been observed in following generations. Millions of Europeans can be studied to check the effects of radiation, and the conclusions have been that they are smaller than previously thought. Of course, superstition yields better propaganda.

According to the radiation measurements under the reactor pressure vessels of #2 and #3 units at Fukushima Daiichi, corium may still be contained in those vessels. See:

Driving on with Fukushima roadmap
35 posted on 11/27/2011 1:13:29 AM PST by J Aguilar (Fiat Justitia et ruat coelum)
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To: J Aguilar

You state flat out falsehoods that contradict the known data collected by scientists. I was going to suggest you read the research at the link I posted but I know that you would ignore data that refutes your falsehoods. Try to understand that the conduct of the IAEA and the nuke industries in various countries and their shills have so thoroughly discredited themselves that their assertions are not valued. That international report I linked was created BECAUSE the nuke industry and its guardian organization, the IAEA lied so vigorously for so long about the true conditions of the population following Chernobyl that scientists across the globe collaborated to document the ugly truth. Those who came on FR and taunted FREEPERS for saying all was not well in Fukushima as falsely claimed can not expect us to listen to them now that they have new falsehoods to spread. The nuke industry in the US and around the world had to know the true state of uncooled fuel after x amount of hours etc. but they all colluded to taunt and ridicule and remain silent when their expertise could assist the populace. I am amazed you still try.


36 posted on 11/27/2011 1:24:32 AM PST by ransomnote
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To: J Aguilar

Ah yes....here’s an example of what I mean:
____________________________________________

High radiation levels found beyond 30-km radius (Japan)
Sunday, April 10, 2011 8:20:54 AM · 3 of 13
J Aguilar to RummyChick

Caesium radioisotpes were accumulated there by rain, and they will be washed away in the same manner.

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________________________________________________

RummyChick posted an article saying high radiation was found beyond 30-km radius and you confidently, and without any qualification (or fact based information) state that it was put their by rain and will leave the same way. Reading your posts back to March, this seems like your preferred style. All legitimate concerns must be brushed away with your empty, nuke pimp assurances.


37 posted on 11/27/2011 1:44:25 AM PST by ransomnote
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To: gunsequalfreedom
These nukes are not safe.

Had no idea that these old plants always had to have external power to them and that they would melt down if that power was lost and the generators were lost. How in the world could governments approve such a situation ? Especially considering we fought two world wars last century where power generation was routinely lost due to indiscriminate bombing.

38 posted on 11/27/2011 9:23:19 AM PST by justa-hairyape
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To: gunsequalfreedom

These nuke plants are VERY safe- it is people who are stupid

If this place had more than 6 hours of battery backup this would have gone down in history as one of the greatest success stories of nuclear power in history- The place survived one of the biggest earthquakes in history AND THEN A TUSUNAMI!

...and it was still working as planned- until the batteries ran out.

If they had a weeks supply of battery power these people would have been heroes. Although the batteries were the last line of defense, no one thought about the tim it might take to get a backup deisel generator - and only planned for 6 hours of power


39 posted on 11/27/2011 9:31:39 AM PST by Mr. K (Physically unable to proofreed <--- oops, see?)
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To: J Aguilar
According to the radiation measurements under the reactor pressure vessels of #2 and #3 units at Fukushima Daiichi, corium may still be contained in those vessels.

Apparently you missed this news.

Fukushima I Nuke Plant: TEPCO to RAISE Temperature of RPVs

40 posted on 11/27/2011 9:47:04 AM PST by justa-hairyape
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To: Mr. K

If someone had looked out the window and mashed the E-Stop on the generators before the wave hit them, they could have probably gotten them back online relatively quickly.

Hydro-locking diesels renders them scrap iron.


41 posted on 11/27/2011 10:38:48 AM PST by Clay Moore (The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of a fool to the left. Ecclesiastes 10:2)
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To: Mr. K
These nuke plants are VERY safe- it is people who are stupid and if, if, if.

I think you just made my point that the nukes are not safe.

42 posted on 11/27/2011 3:39:39 PM PST by gunsequalfreedom (Conservative is not a label of convenience. It is a guide to your actions.)
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To: Mr. K

According to international scientists investigating Fukushima,sensors detected the release of radiation after the earthquake and before the tsunami hit. Some workers said that they believed some pipes burst - the working theory is that coolant pipes burst during the earthquake.
TEPCO and the government were warned about placement of backup generators, placement of fuel tanks for back up generators, placing a nuke plant on a seismically active area that could experience (was predicted by a scientist - recent article in Bloomberg) a massive earthquake followed by tsunami etc. The public can’t over rule the incompetence and bad management decisions made by TEPCO and the government supporters. Until the public is allowed to participate in management/placement decisions, it doesn’t matter how much additional back up juice power plants are given.


43 posted on 11/27/2011 6:21:05 PM PST by ransomnote
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To: Mr. K

...and it was still working as planned- until the batteries ran out.

If they had a weeks supply of battery power these people would have been heroes. Although the batteries were the last line of defense, no one thought about the tim it might take to get a backup deisel generator - and only planned for 6 hours of power
________________________________________________________

Your assertions that all would be well if only backup power had not run out are false. However, I wonder if you are aware that japan declined to request foreign nations send them backup generators and power? The designer of one of the reactors (it was designed in San Jose, CA) said just days after 3/11 that he was horrified that japan did not request back up generators or fuel and declined offers of aid from foreign nations.

You said
“The nuke plants are vary safe-it is the people who are stuipd.”

Well nuke plants aren’t safe - that’s why no commercial ensurer can afford to ensure them and why the government is the insurer - and the reason why the governments then deny liability (they can’t afford the damage caused by even one nuke plant).
“It is the people who are stupid” is correct only in that it is the incompetents in the nuke industry who are stupid, make stupid decisions and then blame everyone but themselves for their own actions.


44 posted on 11/27/2011 6:34:16 PM PST by ransomnote
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To: ransomnote; justa-hairyape
Look, this issue is pretty simple. A much worse accident happened in Chernobyl 25 years ago. The radiation scattered all around eastern Europe and Scandinavia. The consequences on population or land can be observed right now. That is a fact.

Other facts are the measurements on radiation, which I have published:

TEPCO reports on detection of Cesium, Xenon, Plutonium, Strontium at Fukushima Daiichi

In both previous nuclear accidents on commercial reactors, TMI and Chernobyl, the melted fuel was cooled in the lower vessel plenum (TMI) or solidified soon after escaping the reactor (Chernobyl). Those are facts.

If TEPCO needs to decrease the rate of cooling since hydrogen is building up in the reactor, that is a sign that their efforts have been succesful in cooling them and the rate of generation of steam is too low to push the hydrogen out of the reactor pressure vessel.

Science is the pursuit of the truth. However, who needs the truth when it has gotten an agenda?
45 posted on 11/28/2011 12:17:49 AM PST by J Aguilar (Fiat Justitia et ruat coelum)
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To: J Aguilar

J Aguilar said: Look, this issue is pretty simple.

Ransomnote said: Yes it is - why are you lying about it? You said in post 35 “All these, and much worse, things already happened in Chernobyl 25 years ago, and no damage has been observed in the following generations.” This is a lie documented by hundreds of medical studies and the testimony of those who were there- you have no excuse for lying this way since you claim to be knowledgeable. Don’t you ‘get’ that your obvious lies destroy your credibility?

Why do you bother to say that Chernobyl was much worse? Does Russian nuclear industry incompetence and mismanagement somehow excuse Japanese nuclear industry incompetence and mismanagement in your mind?

Hard to say which disaster is worse when Fukukshima is just getting started with no end in sight. Chernobyl was one destroyed reactor that the Ruskies raced to contain at the expense of many human lives. Throwing humans into highly radioactive areas like firelogs - they dug below the molten fuel and installed a slab to halt the progress of the corium. The corium stalled out on that slab. They threw lives away to stop it from reaching the water table that supplies the Soviet Union and Europe. Chernobyl still emits toxic radiation and some scientists believe that pits in the ‘elephant foot’ can admit water resulting in an explosion. Also - their containment structure is about to collapse and vent mass quantities of radioactive material into the environment. And of course, the radioactive waste coating the countryside is still intact - and no one knows how to decontaminate it. New cases of cancer, leukemia, birth defects and endless diseases continue to form everyday from that 25 year old catastrophe.

Now Fukushima is actually 3 destroyed reactors (compared with Chernobyl’s 1) and all those damaged spent fuel pools. In an article in Veterans Today, a scientist makes the persuasive point that Fukushima has 30 times the fuel in play compared with Chernobyl. All those damaged spent fuel pools to tend continuously and we have to hope none of them fails in a seismic event (the area is riddled with faults) or the reactors don’t make the area unapproachable because then, humans couldn’t keep water in the pools and all that fuel would over heat and be vented into the environment. There’s simply no precedent for that scale of disaster. Furthermore, the Japanese have no plans to contain the corium as it burrows its way toward the water table. The Japanese aren’t willing to admit it’s even there and so - they simply ‘hope’ it doesn’t explode or contaminate the water table. No one knows how to contain corium so, for the foreseeable future, Fukushima will continue to pump radioactive waste freely into the environment (Cross our fingers it doesn’t explode!)

Your ‘facts’ are false - just like your earlier assertion way back in April that the reason radioactive waste was found outside the 30km zone was deposition by rain which would ‘wash it away.’ Your assertion that ‘well Chernobyl was worse!’ is bizarre and pointless. You have no credibility to opine or ‘publish’ anything of value.


46 posted on 11/28/2011 1:13:19 AM PST by ransomnote
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To: Clay Moore

There has apparently been a lot of damage seen in the plant that must have been from the earthquake. The earth acceleration exceeded the rating for quite a few of the reactors, spent fuel pools and turbines. So you have to expect some damage.


47 posted on 11/28/2011 3:15:21 AM PST by justa-hairyape
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To: J Aguilar
If TEPCO needs to decrease the rate of cooling since hydrogen is building up in the reactor, that is a sign that their efforts have been succesful in cooling them and the rate of generation of steam is too low to push the hydrogen out of the reactor pressure vessel.

Okay. So now TEPCO's goal for cold shutdown of all the reactors, requires the raising of the reactor temperature ? This must be some new kind of physics. Does not cold imply a lowering of temperature ? Who the heck is running this show ? Or are they now going to move back their cold shutdown projected date ?

48 posted on 11/28/2011 3:28:42 AM PST by justa-hairyape
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To: ransomnote
Thank you for agreeing with me not mentioning Sweden, where much of the radiative Cesium from Chernobyl was released by rain and today is a country not even related to that accident.
49 posted on 11/28/2011 1:05:10 PM PST by J Aguilar (Fiat Justitia et ruat coelum)
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To: justa-hairyape
That's right, they need steam so they have to raise the temperature and let the corium boil some water. Science is pretty interesting indeed.
50 posted on 11/28/2011 1:08:46 PM PST by J Aguilar (Fiat Justitia et ruat coelum)
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