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IMF drawing up 517bn package to save Italy, Spain and the euro
The Telegraph ^ | 11/27/2011 | Robert Winnett

Posted on 11/27/2011 8:23:04 PM PST by Mariner

The International Monetary Fund is being lined up potentially to help Italy and Spain amid growing fears that a European rescue scheme will not be able to prop up the countries, it emerged last night.

Reports in Italy suggested that the IMF is drawing up plans for a €600 billion (£517 billion) assistance package for the country. Spain may be offered access to IMF credit, rather than a rescue package, to avoid it being “picked off” by the markets in the coming weeks.

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News
KEYWORDS: hestopresto; imf; magicalthinking; taxes; thattrickneverworks; thistimeforsure; watchmepullarabbit
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The US Treasury (Taxpayer) on the hook for 45% of a $800bil bailout for Italy and Spain.

Time for trials and hangings on the Capitol Steps.

Metaphorically, of course.

1 posted on 11/27/2011 8:23:11 PM PST by Mariner
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To: Mariner

By “save” they mean prop it up just a bit longer.


2 posted on 11/27/2011 8:24:23 PM PST by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: Mariner

Apparently this rumor has already been denied.


3 posted on 11/27/2011 8:25:54 PM PST by Vince Ferrer
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To: Mariner

The USA taxpayers take another financial bullet between the eyes, courtesy of its “leaders”.

Be nice if we had leaders who cared as much about the taxpayers as they do their big banker and politician buddies.

Corrupt is as corrupt does.

We’d have better leadership in the USA if we canned elections in favor of a lottery.


4 posted on 11/27/2011 8:27:18 PM PST by OldArmy52 (Obama, the most corrupt and incompetent President since Carter.)
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To: Mariner

Why metaphorically?


5 posted on 11/27/2011 8:31:10 PM PST by samadams2000 (Someone important make......The Call!)
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To: Mariner
"The US Treasury (Taxpayer) on the hook for 45% of a $800bil bailout for Italy and Spain."

I wonder if China knows what we are doing with their money?

6 posted on 11/27/2011 8:31:26 PM PST by jpsb
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To: GeronL

By “save” they mean prop it up just a bit longer.


Just keep the machine running with bailing wire and duct tape until the 2012 election. The all H@ll will break loose.


7 posted on 11/27/2011 8:31:53 PM PST by rbg81
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To: Mariner

Are you kidding? We can’t even pay our own bills!


8 posted on 11/27/2011 8:35:46 PM PST by rdl6989 (January 20, 2013 The end of an error.)
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To: Mariner

This is like paying a gamblers debts, it may solve the problem for a couple of months but all you have done is manage to change who they will soon be in debt to.


9 posted on 11/27/2011 8:35:55 PM PST by LukeL (Barack Obama: Jimmy Carter 2 Electric Boogaloo)
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To: Mariner

DEFUND socialist collectives, FOREIGN and domestic. Let them collapse under their own weight. DEFUND the IMF.


10 posted on 11/27/2011 8:37:23 PM PST by PGalt
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To: Vince Ferrer

I daresay it is inaccurate - the real figure is probably twice that amount.


11 posted on 11/27/2011 8:40:10 PM PST by BlackVeil
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To: Mariner
"Socialize the losses, Privatize the gains."

Unfortunately, under this plan, many of the eventual losses would be socialized to the US.

12 posted on 11/27/2011 8:50:44 PM PST by LZ_Bayonet ( I AM THE TEA PARTY LEADER !)
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To: Mariner

And we’ll each be compensated with a travel package... I’ll take a 10 day Italy/Spain trip for 4, business class.


13 posted on 11/27/2011 8:50:44 PM PST by Gene Eric (Save a pretzel for the gas jets.)
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To: GeronL
By “save” they mean prop it up just a bit longer.

I think predictions of the demise of the Euro are very premature. The Eurocrats have built an Empire in Brussels, and they certainly won't give up easily. Their big nukes will be having the IMF (ie. the FED) or the EU Central Bank buy up bad debt in a similar "quantitative easing."

Big Central Banks around the world also want to save the Euro, and they will line up behind the status quo. I don't know how it will all end, but we are far from collapse of the Euro.

14 posted on 11/27/2011 8:56:01 PM PST by PGR88
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To: LukeL

This is like paying a gamblers debts, it may solve the problem for a couple of months but all you have done is manage to change who they will soon be in debt to.

It is like being an enabler for a drunk or a drug addict.


15 posted on 11/27/2011 8:56:01 PM PST by Wisconsinlady (DEFUND NPR, PBS, THE TSA AND THE U.N.)
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To: Mariner

Where do you get the 45%? I see no mention of that figure in the article.


16 posted on 11/27/2011 8:57:59 PM PST by AlmaKing
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To: PGR88

It just means we all collapse together not that collapse can be avoided


17 posted on 11/27/2011 8:58:13 PM PST by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: Wisconsinlady; South40; writer33

International Pawn Shop Economics


18 posted on 11/27/2011 9:01:13 PM PST by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: AlmaKing

It is actually right at 17%

http://www.imf.org/external/np/sec/memdir/members.aspx


19 posted on 11/27/2011 9:35:18 PM PST by sheana
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To: Mariner

Pay your taxes.

Lazy Spanish/Italians who hate you really need the money. :)


20 posted on 11/27/2011 11:58:28 PM PST by Tzimisce (Never forget that the American Revolution began when the British tried to disarm the colonists.)
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To: sheana; Mariner; AlmaKing; BlackVeil; Gene Eric; GeronL; jpsb; LukeL; LZ_Bayonet; OldArmy52; ...
Even if your 17% figure is right, the US taxpayers should be FURIOUS!

THIS BAILOUT OF ITALY & SPAIN will cost US taxpayers $136 BILLION (17% of $800 billion)

The Super Committee failed to cut our deficit by 1.2 Trillion over 10 years.
(That would equal $120 Billion in cuts over one year)

The US Taxpayer will be bailing out SPAIN & ITALY by MORE than the amount the Super Committee was seeking in cuts!



(The US taxpayer's share of the latest Greece bailout was $54 Billion. These two Euro bailouts will total $190 Billion, or 1.6 times the amount the Super Committee was trying to CUT.)

I would bet our share is even higher, but we can't tell. We NEED to AUDIT the FED!



FYI - I do not have any ping list. I 'cc'ed people from this thread, and other threads who might be interested... ( IMF and SUPER COMMITTEE threads )
21 posted on 11/28/2011 12:38:36 AM PST by Future Useless Eater (Chicago politics = corrupted capitalism = takeover by COMMUNity-ISM)
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To: Future Useless Eater

Wow! Who saw this coming? Oh, yeah, anyone who knows anything about the IMF.


22 posted on 11/28/2011 12:43:25 AM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (You can't invade the US. There'd be a rifle behind every blade of grass.~Admiral Yamamoto)
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To: Future Useless Eater

France will have its cup in hand soon. HOW LONG will we keep
wasting US tax dollars to keep the Euro afloat?
23 posted on 11/28/2011 12:43:32 AM PST by Future Useless Eater (Chicago politics = corrupted capitalism = takeover by COMMUNity-ISM)
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To: Future Useless Eater

Too Big To Fail, again? I say let them fail and let the world economy find its equilibrium and start anew.


24 posted on 11/28/2011 1:01:41 AM PST by A Navy Vet (An Oath is Forever.)
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To: A Navy Vet

I’m not getting something. If EVERYONE in the world is ‘failing’, why don’t we all just forgive all the loans to one another and start fresh?


25 posted on 11/28/2011 1:56:51 AM PST by Lazamataz (For the balance of the day, I will reply to a thread on another thread.)
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To: Mariner

SM

Systemic Monetization

Watch oil, transport, gold, and commodity prices.

(And guess what UK lobby is currently holding the Italy bond bag and wants bailed? One that calls itself an “industry”? The same ones on the receiving end of Phony-Care in th US?)


26 posted on 11/28/2011 1:57:34 AM PST by Varsity Flight
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To: Lazamataz

Because the ones that party at the top, at everyone elses expense, would be exposed for dis-proportioned monetization (i.e. self-regulated salaries & income vs. market driven demand income)


27 posted on 11/28/2011 2:03:50 AM PST by Varsity Flight
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To: Mariner

America has funded the world since the mid 50’s when will our people wake up?


28 posted on 11/28/2011 3:09:52 AM PST by Evergolightly (Ones conclusions are founded in the path traveled.)
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To: Vince Ferrer
Apparently this rumor has already been denied.

I believe you are correct Vince.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/imf-package-denial-sends-es-and-eurusd-tumbling

More of the markets buying the rumor then selling the reality. Rinse and repeat.
29 posted on 11/28/2011 4:29:53 AM PST by CaptSkip
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To: CaptSkip

Please, you degenerate Americans...shut up, get to work (if you have a job) and pay your taxes. Move along...there is nothing to see here.


30 posted on 11/28/2011 4:43:38 AM PST by hal ogen (First Amendment or Reeducation Camp?)
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To: Mariner

when I first saw the title I thought Mr. Phelps and his Impossible Missions Force was on the job.

Impossible Missions indeed.


31 posted on 11/28/2011 4:48:42 AM PST by Vaquero ("an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Mariner
Wow! and we thought we spent a lot on the Marshall Plan after WWII to rebuild Europe. Then keeping the peace since.

and now this obscene bail-out

I would say we have purchased Europe - what now?

32 posted on 11/28/2011 4:50:10 AM PST by elpadre (AfganistaMr Obama said the goal was to "disrupt, dismantle and defeat al-Qaeda" and its allies.)
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To: Future Useless Eater

Ugh. And soon shall the PIIGS return to the triugh for more American taxpayer cash?


33 posted on 11/28/2011 5:00:18 AM PST by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: Tzimisce

You type the truth.


34 posted on 11/28/2011 5:01:08 AM PST by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: Future Useless Eater

We are going unnnnnderrrrrrr. Giant sucking sound as we go down the drain.


35 posted on 11/28/2011 5:05:11 AM PST by luvbach1 (Stop the destruction in 2012 or continue the decline)
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To: Army Air Corps
I meant to type "And how soom shall..."
36 posted on 11/28/2011 5:05:17 AM PST by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: OldArmy52
We’d have better leadership in the USA if we canned elections in favor of a lottery.

I submit we would have better leadership if we canned elections and replaced all departments with Apple's Siri.

37 posted on 11/28/2011 5:08:22 AM PST by The Theophilus (Obama's Key to win 2012: Ban Haloperidol)
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To: Lazamataz
"I’m not getting something. If EVERYONE in the world is ‘failing’, why don’t we all just forgive all the loans to one another and start fresh?"

A worldwide reboot so to speak? I've wondered that myself.

38 posted on 11/28/2011 5:30:38 AM PST by Abathar (Proudly posting without reading the article carefully since 2004)
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To: Lazamataz

Because forgiving someone’s loan means you don’t get what’s owed you, and you have to suffer the consequence - not the debtor. Also, just because you forgive someone’s loan doesn’t mean the creditor you owe money too will forgive your loan. ...and hence the natural consequence of this economic quandary being war: “you WILL pay me back, pound of flesh if need be.”

Methinks this is why the Old Testament commands a “year of Jubilee” where all debts are forgiven every 49 years: it’s gonna happen one way or another every half-century (being human nature and economic cycles), so may as well do it in a predicted, specified, organized manner.


39 posted on 11/28/2011 5:49:03 AM PST by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: Mariner
Ulysses Everett McGill: Me an' the old lady are gonna pick up the pieces and retie the knot, mixaphorically speaking.
40 posted on 11/28/2011 5:50:05 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Vaquero

Ulysses Everett McGill: Damn! We’re in a tight spot!


41 posted on 11/28/2011 5:51:14 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: ctdonath2

Well, if we owe (for example) China 500 billion, and China owes Russia and England 250 billion each, and England and Russia owe us 250 billion each, can’t we sort it all out with collapsing the system?


42 posted on 11/28/2011 6:40:52 AM PST by Lazamataz (For the balance of the day, I will reply to a thread on another thread.)
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To: Lazamataz

You’re describing the crux of the “credit default swap” fiasco: “Half-trillion, half-trillion, who’s got the half-trillion?” SOMEBODY had the money, a LOT of it, loaned it out, and wants it back no matter how obfuscated the money trail got. “Can I borrow $10, but you only give me $5, so I owe you $5 and you owe me $5 so we’re even?” doesn’t work.


43 posted on 11/28/2011 6:49:14 AM PST by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: Mariner

Debt is not going to “bail out” any nation running a trade deficit.

It doesn’t work that way.

A nation has to make things, then export those things.

Has to. A nation will not grow by borrowing. Never.


44 posted on 11/28/2011 6:52:30 AM PST by Cringing Negativism Network ("Galts Gulch" <> Communist China)
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To: jpsb

Did not China like Pimco bail out much of it’s holdings?


45 posted on 11/28/2011 6:56:47 AM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 ..... Crucifixion is coming)
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To: Future Useless Eater

How The Fed Could Force A Euro-Crisis Solution In Just A Matter Of Hours
Simone Foxman | Nov. 28, 2011, 9:32 AM

[quote]Jefferies strategist David Zervos is back again with new recommendations about how the U.S. could step in and save the global economy.
This week: threaten complete disaster if EU leaders don’t act right away.
Akin to what he said about the matter last week:
The game in Europe is as we have described many times before - the Germans want budgetary control throughout all of Europe and the rest of EMU wants Eurobonds. Its a game a chicken with the entire global financial system on the line. The US should not allow itself to become a casualty in this Euro chicken game.

Zervos previously proposed that the Federal Reserve buy massive amounts of EU sovereign bonds, but acknowledged today that it engendered a “bailout culture” that Americans won’t be too happy about. Now he says there’s actually another way:
So here is another approach that may appeal to the “no bailouters”. We could have the Fed cut the USD swap lines with the ECB effective immediately. This would accelerate the game of chicken to the point where a euro financial market crash is basically hours away. Either the ECB monetizes and they begin to issue Eurobonds or the entire Eurosystem falls apart - its that simple. If the US forces the Germans to blink and we get monetization and Eurobonds then its a win! If the Germans don’t blink, then US the just nationalizes its own systemic BHCs and watches Europe fall into depression while executing a massive QE3 program to save our own economy. In the later scenario, we print up a whole bunch of USDs to buy up distressed European assets (in fact that worked out pretty well for us back in 90s with the Asian crisis). Either way, we bring this whole painful and annoying saga to a close so we can get on with business of technological advancement and real economic growth.[/quote]

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/us-threatens-immediate-meltdown-to-save-europe-2011-11#ixzz1f0mXVVvk


46 posted on 11/28/2011 6:58:30 AM PST by fight_truth_decay
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To: ctdonath2

47 posted on 11/28/2011 7:03:02 AM PST by Lazamataz (For the balance of the day, I will reply to a thread on another thread.)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

Bingo. The running under-discussed theme behind all these bailouts and “job creation” is: from individuals to nations, wealth must be created to survive. No net wealth creation = demise.


48 posted on 11/28/2011 7:19:35 AM PST by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: Lazamataz

WE’RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!


49 posted on 11/28/2011 7:21:15 AM PST by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: ctdonath2

Bout damned time, too.


50 posted on 11/28/2011 7:33:17 AM PST by Lazamataz (For the balance of the day, I will reply to a thread on another thread.)
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