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A Bold Way to Save Education in America
Godfather Politics ^ | November 12, 2011 | Art Robinson

Posted on 12/02/2011 5:15:24 AM PST by 1010RD

The American tradition of public education began in one-room school houses when frontier farm families hired dedicated teachers to teach their children.

When I attended public schools in the 1950s, I received an excellent education. American schools were rated the best in the world. Those schools prepared me for Caltech, and Caltech prepared me for a wonderful life in science. I owe my career and accomplishments to the great start I received in the public schools.

Those public schools were locally controlled and locally funded. Teachers and parents worked together on the content of curriculum, student discipline, and all aspects of school life. In addition to being academic institutions, public schools became centers of sports competition, social events, and other aspects of community life.

Unfortunately, our public schools are no longer locally controlled. They are largely controlled by federal and state agencies and special interests empowered by government. Local school boards still meet, but the most important decisions are out of their hands.

As local control diminished, so did the academic quality of our schools. U.S. schools are now rated as among the worst in the developed world. This is more than a tragedy – it is child abuse.

When 50 million American children – in whose hands the fate of our nation rests – receive poor quality elementary academic educations, the future of our country is in serious jeopardy. The federally and state controlled public schools that are ruining our children’s educations should be abolished – and replaced by the locally-controlled public schools that served our children so well in the past. No school should be permitted to ruin the life of a single student.

A vast federal bureaucracy and numerous special interest organizations it empowers now stand between our students and our teachers. It should be eliminated. All aspects of a student’s upbringing are the responsibility of the student’s parents and any professional whom the parents wish to engage. Together, they should provide the student with the best possible academic opportunities. This effort must not be imperiled by those who use education for their own purposes, rather than for the student’s best interest.

Americans have responded to the deterioration of their schools by providing more and more tax money, but more money has not worked. Much of the money never reaches the students or the teachers. It funds a literal army of non-teachers, administrators, and federal, state, and local bureaucrats – who generally spend their time making life miserable for the teachers and interfering with their efforts to teach.

Tax funding for Oregon schools is now, on average, about $10,000 per student year. Suppose that one of our thousands of great teachers were to be given 30 students, a check for $300,000, and asked to teach those students for nine months. Do you think the teacher would have sufficient resources? (Some schools receive less than the average of $10,000, but even $200,000 would suffice for this example.)

The teacher could rent the best room in town, hire an assistant, raise her own salary, buy everything the students need, fully fund all extracurricular activities, and have money left over. The teacher could, of course, do this more efficiently in a school with other teachers. This single teacher example illustrates, however, that education resources are sufficient – if the resources go directly to the classroom.

The local school board would assure that resources do go to the classroom and provide sufficient supervision, which need not cost much. Following World War II, my uncle taught school in Iowa. In addition to teaching a full load of classes, he was given a few dollars extra to be the superintendant of schools.

I have been an educator all my life. Starting with earning a little money for college by tutoring students in high school, I eventually became a faculty member at the University of California at San Diego, teaching chemistry to 300 undergraduates each year and supervising graduate students. Currently, our family business provides curricula, books, and teaching aids to approximately 60,000 home schooled students in the U.S.

In the 1950s when our schools were under local control, there was almost no home schooling in America because there was no need for it. Now, millions of American children are being home schooled because their parents want better educations for them than are provided in the academically inferior schools that are under federal, state, and special interest political control.

Not even nuclear war could “abolish” American public education. It is an integral part of our way of life. However, American schools must be returned to local control. The federal Department of Education should be closed, and education returned entirely to the states and the people as the Constitution specifies. The states and localities can collect the needed taxes. No increase in overall taxes would be needed.

Local control is close to the parents, where real concern for the student lies. Also, local control places our school districts in competition with each other for academic excellence, so students benefit.

Improvement of our public schools cannot wait. It cannot be neglected in hopes that they will gradually improve over the coming decades. The 50 million children in these schools now will not have a second chance at some future date.

Beyond high school, the U.S. system of private and public universities is also functioning below its potential because of political control. Oregon State University, located in Oregon District 4, serves as an example. This university receives more than $250 million in federal research dollars each year, including approximately $30 million as direct earmark funding from incumbent Congressmen during the last congressional session. By comparison, OSU private funding for research is now less than $6 million.

Is it any surprise, therefore, that in the 2010 election, OSU facilities and personnel were mobilized in favor of the incumbent Congressional candidate in District 4 and against the challenger? OSU courses often contain partisan political content, even science courses with no logical political purpose. OSU has become a very partisan political institution, which can lead to reprehensible injustices to students, as evidenced by my own family.

By contrast, the California Institute of Technology receives only about half of its funds from political sources. The other half is supported by income from Caltech’s endowment, which mitigates the effect of outside political influence.

Oregon State University and the University of Oregon (also in Oregon District 4) are very important institutions. Both universities would, however, be much better off if they were not completely dependent upon politicians for their immediate existence. Very large independent endowments should be built for both universities. These could be built with both public and private funds, but then be administered by the universities without political control.

Public education, from first grade to the university levels should be as independent of federal and state political influence as possible.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; US: Oregon
KEYWORDS: academia; arth; artrobinson; constitution; education; elections; elections2012; frhf; homeschooling; learning; robinson; schools; teaching
Dr. Art Robinson is an internationally respected scientist, educator, successful businessman, skilled public speaker, and expert on energy, medicine, and emergency preparedness. He worked on medical and defense issues during the Reagan administration and on energy issues during the Clinton and Bush administrations. He is a Republican candidate for Congress. He is hoping to replace the very liberal Peter DeFazio in Oregon District 4 in the 2012 election.
1 posted on 12/02/2011 5:15:28 AM PST by 1010RD
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To: metmom

Homeschool list ping. He’s running for Congress in Oregon’s 4th District.


2 posted on 12/02/2011 5:16:26 AM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: Salvation

Oregon ping list, that’s you correct?

http://www.artforcongress.com/


3 posted on 12/02/2011 5:17:40 AM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: spankalib

How about this?


4 posted on 12/02/2011 5:25:57 AM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD

bttt


5 posted on 12/02/2011 5:27:00 AM PST by Scotswife
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To: 1010RD

Besides the FACT that the US K-12 system has become an expensive/costly assembly line, I am sure that the implimentation of ‘teaching to test’ or the fact that unionized teachers and tenure have had absolutely nothing to do with our education system being so fraked huh, Dr. Robinson?

I have college freshman students, year after year, who have no clue how to write a sentence let alone a paragraph and fail miserably at understanding concepts that they should have had or did have in middle or high school. Care to explain that one to me, as well as many of my university collegues throughout the US? =.=


6 posted on 12/02/2011 5:29:40 AM PST by cranked
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To: 1010RD

I hope he wins. He understands key points very well. One of the most important points he makes is the following:

“Teachers and parents worked together on the content of curriculum, student discipline, and all aspects of school life. In addition to being academic institutions, public schools became centers of sports competition, social events, and other aspects of community life.”

This is missing to a GREAT extent in our present culture. ONE of the reasons it is missing has to do with the breakdown of the family. And many political activists have been responsible for advocating policies that further damage families.

Of course, we must all share in the blame ... because, as a nation, we began to ignore God and His Wisdom. I am encouraged to see that this economic/political crisis has been a catalyst for several people to realize this...and begin to remedy it....for themselves as individuals AND their families. The family is the most crucial building block for any healthy society. Sound education springs from healthy families.


7 posted on 12/02/2011 5:33:59 AM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo...Sum Pro Vita. (Modified Decartes))
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To: cranked

Well, for decades we’ve known what doesn’t work, but politicians and their political allies keep the system in place because it pays...them.

In Illinois we’ve got teacher ‘certifications’. So someone with a decade of experience in their craft couldn’t teach it to anyone, until they get a teaching certificate. How much more stupid can the system get?


8 posted on 12/02/2011 5:36:19 AM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD
The federal Department of Education should be closed, and education returned entirely to the states and the people as the Constitution specifies.

Don't stop there. The STATE department of education should likewise be closed. Return the control of education to local school boards. 99% of the money spent by taxpayers outside of the local school district on state and federal educrats is a complete and total waste.

9 posted on 12/02/2011 5:36:44 AM PST by Spartan79 (I view great cities as pestilential to the morals, the health, and the liberties of man.)
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To: 1010RD

Excellent! Thanks for the ping.
I tried to get on the Oregon state board to prop the guy, but couldn’t figure it out...
This guy really sounds like the real deal. His ACHIEVEMENTS speak to that as well.


10 posted on 12/02/2011 5:39:01 AM PST by spankalib (The Marx-in-the-Parks crowd is a basement skunkworks operation of the AFL-CIO)
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To: cranked

http://www.uhuh.com/nwo/communism/comgoals.htm

Communist Goals (1963)
Congressional Record—Appendix, pp. A34-A35

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers’ associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

I went to school BEFORE TEACHER UNIONS.


11 posted on 12/02/2011 5:43:12 AM PST by Not a 60s Hippy (They are SOCIALISTS, not Progressive, Liberal, Left Wing, Democrats, Special interest groups.)
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To: 1010RD

Oh! Forgot:
“Both universities would, however, be much better off if they were not completely dependent upon politicians for their immediate existence.”

Don’t think Oregon is completely dependent - they got the Nike guy...

I could tell, from their sucky unis and atrocious b-ball floor.
hahaha!
Cheers!


12 posted on 12/02/2011 5:43:31 AM PST by spankalib (The Marx-in-the-Parks crowd is a basement skunkworks operation of the AFL-CIO)
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To: 1010RD
... making life miserable for the teachers and interfering with their efforts to teach.

The teachers are hardly blameless.
They too are part of this machine, that educated and indoctrinated them as well.
The few remaining old school teachers are being replaced one by one.

How do conservative, dedicated teachers fare today?
Anyone out there who could tell us?

13 posted on 12/02/2011 5:45:50 AM PST by BitWielder1 (Corporate Profits are better than Government Waste)
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To: 1010RD

Dr. Art Robinson has a great homeschooling program and I hope he wins in his bid for Congress. However, his understanding of the history of public education is not correct. By the 1950’s public schools were already seriously compromised along the road to statism by Dewey’s theories. Every school teacher was trained in his methodology and curriculum was planned accordingly. The elites had already decided in the late 19th century to socialize the education system and began their program in teacher training. The fact that not every school district was yet reorganized is not a true reflection of how socialized the education had already become.

In the 50’s the elites had already institutionalized kindergarten with its goal of removing phonetic reading instruction and delaying reading instruction until lst grade. History was being changed to social studies. Memorization of math facts, indeed any facts, was being challenged and limited. Grading of students had already been accomplished so that children were grouped according to age and not ability, as had been done in the one room schoolhouse. High school was also now mandatory in the 50’s whereas in 1900 most students had finished high school level material by the “8th level.” If you doubt that, just skim one of the original McGuffey readers designed for the last class of elementary school. It’s reading on what is now in the 21st century reserved for the advanced classes of high school.

A great book to read on this subject is: JOHN DEWEY AND THE DECLINE OF AMERICAN EDUCATION: HOW THE PATRON SAINT OF SCHOOLS HAS CORRUPTED TEACHING AND LEARNING by Henry T. Edmondson III.


14 posted on 12/02/2011 5:51:26 AM PST by Madam Theophilus
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To: 1010RD
Much of the money never reaches the students or the teachers. It funds a literal army of non-teachers, administrators, and federal, state, and local bureaucrats – who generally spend their time making life miserable for the teachers and interfering with their efforts to teach.

Couldn't agree more. Our school just spent who-knows-how-much on a set of iPads for the kids. Half of them will be broken in 2 years and they'll all be obsolete in 4. Meanwhile, we are on a rationing system for xerox copies and white paper. Does this make ANY sense? Not to me....

15 posted on 12/02/2011 6:19:52 AM PST by A_perfect_lady (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: 1010RD

>>Is it any surprise, therefore, that in the 2010 election, OSU facilities and personnel were mobilized in favor of the incumbent Congressional candidate in District 4 and against the challenger? OSU courses often contain partisan political content, even science courses with no logical political purpose. OSU has become a very partisan political institution, which can lead to reprehensible injustices to students, as evidenced by my own family.

This is the guy whose three children were expelled from OSU because he ran against Fazio in 2010, correct? The outrage where OSU stole their work and gave credit for it to more favored socialist students?


16 posted on 12/02/2011 6:22:16 AM PST by vikingd00d (chown -R us ./base)
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To: 1010RD
As local control diminished, so did the academic quality of our schools. U.S. schools are now rated as among the worst in the developed world. This is more than a tragedy - it is child abuse.

It's one of the planks of the Communist Manifesto. It's not an accident that control has shifted away from localities, and to a central agency.

The trick is to have the people think they have control; and for that all that is necessary is create some sort of false or trivial conflict, then declare the people get to choose by voting.

17 posted on 12/02/2011 6:26:16 AM PST by Cboldt
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To: 1010RD

He needs to go study the roots of the government schooling movement in this country (and others). It may have looked nice in the 50s. He may have gotten a good education. But the seed was planted in poisonous ground and even then the motives of the people behind “public” schooling - not the teachers, but the administrators and visionaries - has been incompatible with a traditional conservative American viewpoint.

If the schools next door started producing world class graduates better than what I could do at home I still wouldn’t put my daughter there, because I disagree with institutional Prussian-style schooling.


18 posted on 12/02/2011 6:27:34 AM PST by JenB
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To: 1010RD; 2Jedismom; 6amgelsmama; AAABEST; aberaussie; adopt4Christ; Aggie Mama; agrace; ...

Of interest to any homeschoolers in OR.


19 posted on 12/02/2011 8:37:49 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: SumProVita

>>Of course, we must all share in the blame ...<<

Nope, I don’t share the blame nor will I take the blame and the sooner that conservatives learn this the better.

The people fighting to get your kids are doing just that, fighting. Tooth and nail. Tons of conservative parents felt wonderfully self-righteous sending their kids to the belly of the beast to fight this. It’s failed.

Others have rationalized sending kids there while singing, not my school. Sorry, you’re wrong. All it takes is one substitute teacher to wreck your kid. While the school apologizes for letting a sub tell your precious little one what “Golden Showers” are, you are cleaning up the pieces of your child’s innocence. Or unteaching the Green movement, anti-Christianity, etc.

Get your kids OUT of public schools. Starve the beast. Those who have put kids through school, please get on the school boards or at least attend the meetings. Help us.

I’m not going to take the blame, but I’ll take the ball. Time to get serious. Public schools are broken and a generation of kids is left by the side of the road while we experiment with fixes.


20 posted on 12/02/2011 10:19:20 AM PST by netmilsmom (Happiness is a choice)
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To: netmilsmom

What I was referring to was of a much more spiritual nature. It wasn’t purely about the school system per se....but about our entire cultural milieu.


21 posted on 12/02/2011 10:59:55 AM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo...Sum Pro Vita. (Modified Decartes))
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To: JenB

Art is familiar with the history of American forced education. Trust me on that. You and I are knowledgeable on such things and hence we home school. The average American doesn’t know and doesn’t get it.

My goal is seeing Art elected. He’s solid, very solid. He’s also big on home schooling: http://www.robinsoncurriculum.com/


22 posted on 12/02/2011 12:05:57 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: A_perfect_lady

Yep, teachers will grasp any straw if it isn’t their money. The utter myth that tech = improvement is disproved by PBS and Sesame Street.


23 posted on 12/02/2011 12:07:58 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: Spartan79

One step at a time. Liberalism is a disease that starts at the Federal level. Think about the average American. They’re conservative at a core level, but liberals have been able to contravene them through national funding and control.


24 posted on 12/02/2011 12:12:30 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: Madam Theophilus

He gets it completely. I presume you’re familiar with this book?: http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/underground/


25 posted on 12/02/2011 12:15:15 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD

Yes, I have read quite a few books on the history of American education, including Gatto’s.


26 posted on 12/02/2011 1:08:03 PM PST by Madam Theophilus
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To: Cboldt
It's not an accident that control has shifted away from localities, and to a central agency.

Epecially when you consider there is zero in the U.S. Constitution that education is a federal function.

27 posted on 12/02/2011 1:50:00 PM PST by QT3.14 (Life is not a dress rehearsal - it is Showtime!!)
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To: Not a 60s Hippy
17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

And these two along thoe lines:

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

28 posted on 12/02/2011 1:55:58 PM PST by QT3.14 (Life is not a dress rehearsal - it is Showtime!!)
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To: A_perfect_lady

“Much of the money never reaches the students or the teachers.”

Here in NJ much of the money reaches the teachers; they are very well-paid, and their retirement benefits liabilities are drowning many municipalities. What pensioners did to GM in Detroit public employees (most teachers) are doing to NJ; the tax burden on any individual, business, or property makes it a terrible place to be.


29 posted on 12/02/2011 3:44:57 PM PST by kearnyirish2
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To: 1010RD

Great timing, could ya’ll also take a look over here at the issue of Standards Based Grading creeping into middle schools and high schools?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2814935/posts


30 posted on 12/02/2011 3:48:29 PM PST by BigDaddyTX (Don't Mex with Texas)
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To: 1010RD

I think the assertion that homeschooling wasn’t necessary in the 1950s due to the public school system is off base; while the public schools were better then than today, the fact is that there were a lot more PRIVATE education opportunities than today.

When my father was in elementary school it was required for Catholic parents to send their children to Catholic schools; imagine the size of a Catholic education system that could mandate that. Today it is a shell of its former self, and the state of education today reflects that.


31 posted on 12/02/2011 4:06:04 PM PST by kearnyirish2
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To: 1010RD

What is worse is having millions of teachers each trying to ‘innovate’ at the kids’ expense. Attempts to innovate are by definition going to include many failures. The material to be learned in K-12 doesn’t change every year and it doesn’t change from one locale to another. There is no need to constantly reinvent the wheel. Today’s technology lends itself to sharing the best teachers amongst every classroom on that subject. The “Teacher” should be an interactive video game that includes lectures, textbook, video material all presented as needed and in response to the student’s input to frequent pop-up quizzes. Each student could learn at their own pace and explore in more depth than any live body could support with individual attention. The adults physically present in the classroom should be relegated to Aid or Tutor, and not trying to create their own curriculum while setting a pace that is limited by the slowest student in the class.

Also, it should be impossible to “teach to the test” and impossible to cheat on a test. Each student’s test should be created separately so the questions are in a random order and although the entire class has the same 50 questions, those 50 questions were randomly selected at the last minute from a database of thousands of possible questions on that topic. (If somebody can memorize the answers to thousands of questions on that week’s topic, then their effort to cheat will result in them learning something despite themselves.) This way the “teacher” has no idea exactly what questions will be on the test, and the students can’t crib off each other because their neighbor’s test problems are in a different order. This will force the teachers to teach the actual subject matter rather than “teach to the test” and students to learn the subject matter rather than counting on cribbing off somebody else.


32 posted on 12/02/2011 4:20:56 PM PST by Kellis91789 (The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.)
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To: 1010RD

He doesn’t say so, and it would probably be election suicide for him to say so, but I think public colleges and universities need to be audited thoroughly to determine why costs keep going up. I expect that professors are spending less time per class/student and so more teaching staff is used than necessary. Likewise, the administrative staffs are hugely bloated.

They suffer the same problem that any government bureaucracy does — larger staffs justify higher pay for supervisors, so there is a disincentive to improve productivity.

Basically, they spend more money because they CAN, because students are so desperate and student loans are so easy to get, that universities raise their fees and tuition and the students keep paying. Students complain, but keep coming and paying. The government should stop guaranteeing student loans. Public universities should not be using price to try to decrease demand, they should be using merit to fill their spaces and then either expand the school or reject the extras. Charging people up the wazoo and then just blowing the cash on lighter workloads for professors and bloating admin is bad policy. Especially when every extra $1 the student pays is matched by $3 the taxpayer must pay.

The unavailability of student loans and leaner operating costs at public universities will lead to lower fees at both public and private schools as they must compete with the public schools.


33 posted on 12/02/2011 4:39:40 PM PST by Kellis91789 (The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.)
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To: Kellis91789

I would bet that professor and administrator salaries go up every year, even though the economy has been terrible.


34 posted on 12/02/2011 4:43:36 PM PST by ConjunctionJunction
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks 1010RD.
Tax funding for Oregon schools is now, on average, about $10,000 per student year. Suppose that one of our thousands of great teachers were to be given 30 students, a check for $300,000, and asked to teach those students for nine months. Do you think the teacher would have sufficient resources? (Some schools receive less than the average of $10,000, but even $200,000 would suffice for this example.) The teacher could rent the best room in town, hire an assistant, raise her own salary, buy everything the students need, fully fund all extracurricular activities, and have money left over. The teacher could, of course, do this more efficiently in a school with other teachers. This single teacher example illustrates, however, that education resources are sufficient -- if the resources go directly to the classroom.

35 posted on 12/02/2011 4:46:07 PM PST by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: cranked
Besides the FACT that the US K-12 system has become an expensive/costly assembly line, I am sure that the implimentation of ‘teaching to test’

Get rid of the federal control/influence (No Child Left Behind) and lower the amount of state control and you'll move away from teaching to the test.

Public education used to work just fine - it helped us put men on the moon and win world wars.

Of course, back then, the feds weren't as involved, kids weren't in this continual cycle of testing, and schools didn't feel pressured keep on advancing kids that should have been flunked.
36 posted on 12/02/2011 4:52:41 PM PST by af_vet_rr
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To: Not a 60s Hippy
17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers’ associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

When Bush and Teddy Kennedy were pushing No Child Left Behind, I was so incredibly disappointed at the number of Republicans who thought it was good to increase federal control/influence. That should have been a wakeup call for where the GOP was going.

I went to school BEFORE TEACHER UNIONS.

The NEA was founded in 1857. If you went to school before then, you officially qualify as the oldest FReeper! Even in the 1950s, the NEA had almost three quarters of a million members.
37 posted on 12/02/2011 4:57:44 PM PST by af_vet_rr
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To: ConjunctionJunction

Yes, and their hours actually teaching go down.


38 posted on 12/02/2011 5:33:13 PM PST by Kellis91789 (The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.)
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To: 1010RD

conservative teacher here, FL. . .its tough. I could easily spend my entire day, every day, all year trying to UN-do the crap some of these liberal teachers fill your kids head with. You have no idea.
Furthermore, what we are NOT teaching anymore is far more detrimental to our society. History classes are watered down to PC love-fests. Like our history was made by holding hands and singing kum-bay-yah??? ridiculous.
Money$$ I spend on average, 2,000-2,800 on necessary supplies for my classroom and students every year. If you think your kids benefit in any way from your tax payer dollars you are highly mistaken. High-paid babysitting my friends. Not at all, the schools we grew up in before unions ruled the world. I say, cut the head off and let it bleed.


39 posted on 12/02/2011 5:42:56 PM PST by Partysnobz
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To: cranked

I am a graduate of the South Carolina public school system, class of 1960. I live about fifty five miles from the school I attended. We have a university here and I have spoken to recent graduates of that university who majored in history. I was amazed to learn that they don’t know the history that I was required to learn in the first seven years. I am not exaggerating at all. If a university graduate cannot pass the test he would have had to pass to ENTER HIGH SCHOOL in my era and I am referring to a test on his MAJOR subject then he does not even have an eighth grade education in reality. What are they doing in class?


40 posted on 12/02/2011 6:13:15 PM PST by RipSawyer (This does not end well!)
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To: 1010RD

Certification equals Indoctrination. It makes sense if you know the objective, right?


41 posted on 12/02/2011 10:18:19 PM PST by itsahoot (Throw them all out!)
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To: 1010RD
Tax funding for Oregon schools is now, on average, about $10,000 per student year.
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Local control is still local socialism.

1) The children who attend risk becoming accustomed to accepting a tuition-free socialist service. Well?...If the government ( local or not) can use the threat of police action to take money from a neighbor to give them socialist schooling, why not use that government power to get lots of socialist goodies

2) It is **IMPOSSIBLE** to have a culturally, politically, and religiously neutral education. Even if school districts were the size of a city block or a suburban housing division, there is no way to reconcile the various worldviews of even those few families. In the end, the largest political bully group gets to dictate the worldview of the area's children and they have the government police force to make other citizens pay for it.

3) Ok....Let's say all socialist K-12 schooling were returned to the town level. How many generations would it take to reproduce the federal and state monstrosity that we have now? One? Two? Three generations? Socialism's natural course is to move toward greater and greater centralization.

4) Finally...Secularism is NOT NOT NOT religiously neutral! In a secular school a child must think and reason godlessly merely to cooperate within the classroom! How can that be religiously neutral? It can't! The point is that it is impossible to have a religiously neutral education, and no citizen should be forced to pay for the establishment of the religious worldview of the biggest political bullies in the town.

Socialist schooling is a First Amendment and freedom of conscience abomination!

Solution: We must begin the process of privatizing universal K-12 education. What's needed is complete separation of school and state.

By the way....It only took one to three generations of modern locally controlled socialist education to produce **four** terms of Franklin D. Roosevelt.

( Not proof read)

42 posted on 12/03/2011 5:58:10 AM PST by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
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To: SumProVita
Of course, we must all share in the blame ... because, as a nation, we began to ignore God and His Wisdom.
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Well....Sending generations of kids to socialist schools that were at first a lukewarm Protestant, then secular with a nod to God, and now utterly godless hasn't helped any.

At there very best our modern socialist schools offered the children a lukewarm and generic Protestantism. What does Christ do with the lukewarm? He spits them out of His mouth! Children who attend schools like this risk learning to be generic and lukewarm about their faith.

My grandmother ( born 1894) attended secular socialist schools that merely nodded to God in the morning. Children who attend these schools risk learning to think godlessly and occasionally nod to God.

Today's socialist schools are utterly godless, and merely to cooperate in the classroom children must think and reason godlessly. How can they not, at least while there?

If you are wondering how America lost its way, maybe the local godless socialist school is a good place to start looking.

Socialist schooling is an abomination. One more generation of this and I doubt we will survive as a free people. It's like looking a train wreck happening in slow motion.

43 posted on 12/03/2011 6:08:20 AM PST by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
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To: Spartan79
Return the control of education to local school boards.
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Even if school districts were the size of a city block or a suburban housing division, the schools would still be socialist and they would still be either godlessly secular or lukewarm and generic in their religious worldview.

Children who attend schools like this risk learning to be comfortable accepting a tuition-free socialist service provided to them by threat of police force. Well?...Why not use that force to get lots of socialist goodies?

Children who would attend these schools risk learn to think godlessly or to be lukewarm and generic in their religious belief.

Fundamentally, socialist schooling is a First Amendment and freedom of conscience abomination, not only to the children and their families but the taxpayer who is under police threat to pay for it.

44 posted on 12/03/2011 6:13:31 AM PST by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
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To: JenB
But the seed was planted in poisonous ground and even then the motives of the people behind “public” schooling - not the teachers, but the administrators and visionaries - has been incompatible with a traditional conservative American viewpoint.
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You “get it”.

I find it discouraging how few Freepers, who are conservative in every other way, fail to understand.

I have been hammered in the past for being too strident...but..honestly, I fear for this nation. One more generation of children ( future voters) indoctrinated in godless and socialist compulsory schools and we will be a nation of slaves.

45 posted on 12/03/2011 6:22:48 AM PST by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
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To: netmilsmom
Nope, I don’t share the blame nor will I take the blame and the sooner that conservatives learn this the better.
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Exactly!

And..Yep! I think conservatives should get on the collectivist people's education committee ( oops! “school board”). Conservatives should have **one** goal while participating in the collectivist education people's committee: Closing down **all** socialist schooling!

46 posted on 12/03/2011 6:27:17 AM PST by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
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To: SumProVita
If children attend schools that are lukewarm and generic in their Protestantism do you think they will learn to be lukewarm and generic Protestants? ( By the way, Christ spits the lukewarm out of His mouth!)

If children attend godlessly secular schools do you think they will learn to think secularly and nod to God on occasion?

If children attend utter godless schools what do you think they will learn?

If children attend socialist schools, do you think they might learn to be comfortable with taking money from a neighbor for other socialist “free” goods and services?

47 posted on 12/03/2011 6:32:26 AM PST by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
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To: 1010RD

So socialism on the town level is better?

It’s better to have the socialist school committee dictate the political, cultural, and religious worldview of other people’s children and use police threat to make citizens pay for it?


48 posted on 12/03/2011 6:35:47 AM PST by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
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