Skip to comments.U.K. to Eurozone Nations: We're Out, Good Luck
Posted on 12/08/2011 10:56:08 PM PST by tcrlaf
The 17 eurozone states and six other EU countries agreed early Friday to create a new treaty that will allow them to introduce stricter fiscal rules in the hope of containing a worsening debt crisis, but Britain's prime minister immediately threatened to block the new accord.
The failure to get agreement among all 27 members of the European Union at a summit meeting in Brussels reflected in large part a deep split between France and Germany on the one hand and Britain on the other. France and Germany are the two largest economies in the eurozone; Britain does not use the euro as its currency.
Britain's Conservative Prime Minister David Cameron said Friday "the institutions of the European Union belong to the European Union, belong to the 27" member states.
Cameron wished the eurozone nations luck in finding a solution to the crisis, which he conceded was in the interst of Britain, too, but said it was not in the U.K.'s interest to join the new treaty because he could not get special safeguards for the country's financial center.
(Excerpt) Read more at cbsnews.com ...
This year Santa will be giving out Euros to all the naughty boys and girls instead of those expensive lumps of coal.
bfl on that.
Beware of Giethner, he’s making promises we know nothing about
The UK has the same problem with liberal pseudo intellectuals that we do, and the same infestation of liberalism in academics.
Let’s see, from that list: At least four of the countries are teetering on economic default (Italy, Spain, Greece, Portugal). Belgium has had internal political struggles. Malta has limited resources and had a 1.2% economic contraction in 2009. Kosovo has an average per capita income equivalent of less than $3,000 dollars. etc. etc. I wonder why the UK wouldn’t want to tie their economic future to the Eurozone?
The IMF is 70% funded by U.S., we are going to bail out the European commies.”
Exactly what “Timmy the Tax Cheat” was doing in Europe this week. Notice how much coverage he got in the press? This will be a done deal and it will cook Obamas goose when it goes down.
Sweet! Go UK, go Hungary! We are behind you!
So much for one world order working out.
United nations is failure number two.
The Euro was designed to remove the monetary autonomy of german competitors. Giving german exporters (the heart of the german economy) a weaker stable new currency without the exchange risk.
UK has a gigantic total debt as a share of GDP. If they were deprived of monetary auonomy or its financial sector was heavily regulated, they would be in worse shape than Ireland, Spain and Italy.
There is no doubt between the german and the british model. The german way is far superior: they´re the last true anti-keynesian nation. But the rest of the Eurozone cannot afford those german monetary and fiscal rigor. If confidence is not back in markets we are moving into a deadly spiral of recession and cuts in Europe.
Germany passed a constitutional balanced budget amendment in 2009, in the worst moment of the crisis. They will balance the budget in 2012. Believe it or not, it was a socialist government who cut the corporate tax rate from 60 to 30% in 10 years (with a federal tax rate as low as 15%). It was a socialist government who cut from 45 to 42% the top tax rate on personal income. And it was a socialist government who passed the most radical welfare and labor reform (in the sense of more autonomy for companies) in recent german history.
Germany radically opposes that the European Central Banks becomes another Fed or BoE massively printing and monetizing public debt. Germany says that such intervention creates a moral hazard and hides the true structural causes of the crisis: too much debt (both private and public) and the lack of reforms.
They´re 100% right. And they´re truly admirable. But its time to admit that most Europe cannot follow them.
“That would mean YOU are funding a Europe Bailout, since 70% of IMF funding comes from the US.
The IMF is 70% funded by U.S., we are going to bail out the European commies.
Exactly what Timmy the Tax Cheat was doing in Europe this week. Notice how much coverage he got in the press? This will be a done deal and it will cook Obamas goose when it goes down...”
.....the IMF, and no doubt U.S. funds, ..Pan-fiscal QE II Which is the reason for no new ECB bonds. (Back door U.S. paper maker scam give-away) UK? Guess what lobby is on the hook for all those Italian bonds.
False paper-makers SYSTEM give-away. More price pressures and or sustained prices and unemployment for the U.S. They are going to try to get away with it.
There will be two rally cries in the U.S. and elsewhere on this GLOBAL Quanitative Easing II:
1. Tea Party: “One more round, we shut down.”
2. Occupiers: “One more round, we sit down.”
The German bankers have done what Hitler could not. And guess what; the German people aren’t too happy about it either (from what I hear).
Looks like Britain NOT converting to the Euro may turn out to be a lifesaver.
What was Vatican City’s argument for joining the euro?
Basically, the EU is throwing away it’s own constitution to maintain the illusion of Sovereignty a little longer. Nobody knows for exactly how long.
Cameron is throwing a wrench in the works, because the EU Constitution says if all 27 do not sign up to fiscal union, there can be no EU treaty changes. Setting up special conditions for a select group of countries, without a vote approving constitutional changes, isn’t allowed.
Of course, the usual suspects media is screaming bloody murder over this, but I think the British position is hardening.
I’m laughing. HARD. Where are all the doomsayers who were crying a few years ago that the EU would outlast us?
Hungary has clarified it’s position, and said it will consult it’s parliament, but has NOT rejected the treaty outright as the UK did.
According to it’s Ministry of Foreign Affair, Czech Republic is conferring with it’s parliament, and still intends to join the Euro.
Nothing new about Sweden.....still must confer with it’s parliament.
Hungary and Czech Republic will now be under intense pressure to sign-up, and given how dependent the Czech Republic is on Germany for trade and finance, I won’t be surprised if they knuckle under. All of the banks here are owned by the Austrians, Germans, Belgians, or Italians, so that will no doubt have some impact on the issue.
Heck, I can walk to my nearest chain supermarket, and it’s German-owned. Lidl, Kaufland, Globus, the big ones are German (except Tesco, out of the UK). The Belgians have a big stake as well with Delvita, and I believe Billa is Austrian. The only Czech-owned grocery stores left are Jednota, and the small regional supermarket, Hruska.
The Swedes? Hard to say what they’ll do.
“Im laughing. HARD. Where are all the doomsayers who were crying a few years ago that the EU would outlast us?”
Yeah, I know...
Remember all the media articles trumpeting the “IRISH ECONOMIC MIRACLE!!” of destroying it’s manufacturing in favor of “GREEN!” financial sector support services?
Or all the articles pimping Spain’s “GREEN REVOLUTION!”, and how it was the way of the future?
Or liberals cheering that the Euro was going to replace the dollar as the International Currency of Trade, screwing over good old George Bush?
It’s like none of that never existed today. Amazing how Orwellian our media has become, isn’t it?
Above all, NO REFERENDUMS! The actual people involved will never get a voice in the ending of their national sovereignty.
According to the press conference just given by Frau Merkel, the next step is political union.
This agreement gives Germany unprecedented financial power in Europe. Germany has become the Master of Europe. Now it has the power to whip the other nations into line with it’s economic policies, or suffer the consequences. Sarkozy has hitched his star to Germany’s, and a good chunk of the EU just did as well.
Well, I guess there’s more than one way to conquer the world, as they say. Mrs. Merkel is one hell of a poker player, I’ll say that for her.
Actually, the German proposed financial tax ploy, very clever PR device here. German based industrial vs. UK paper backers.
A clever PR counter by the Germans might be a totally anti- Keynes proposal, of a no tax regulated-audit package.
I’m watching Merkel live right now.
She’s talking like a Boss!!!
She knows that she just conquered Europe. All of Europe now kneels before Germany!
I was watching CSPAN the other night while channel surfing and it had the PM taking questions from the House of Commons. I wish the President would take questions from the House, but I digress. The discussion regarding this conference let me to believe that Britian would definitely be looking out for its own interests and screw what the rest of the EU thought.
Which means our markets are probably going to take a hell of a hit in the near term.
Let them try to enforce it. This is just another ruse.
At the end of her presser, Merkel said “I have achieved exactly what I wanted to. Merry Christmas to all.”
No joke. That’s what she said. And she was smiling when she said it.
Something about Germans smiling after they say “I have achieved what I wanted to” is.......unsettling.
And the Germans are actually making a concession by even allowing the UK paper-maker lobby back in.
The Germans are in their own way acting as Europe’s Tea Party.
She's just not very social. She doesn't socialize much with her enlightened comrades.
:) :) In the states here, the propaganda mouthpieces are now trying to prop the government- “market” as if this is a done deal and the futures are “rising” on the news. Actually however, they’ve declined since the early morning hours, and are only up 21 as of now.
Exactly. The german government is the european Tea Party. The only ones who don´t want to get out of this crisis printing paper.
Not Great Britain, thank God. Not completely, not yet.
The Brits are literally dancing in the streets. Cameron may have just saved himself.
True. I figure the UK is only one Labour government away from that.
It’ll be interesting to see what the Liberal Democrats do about this. They seem to be highly displeased with this turn of events.
Will they be highly displeased enough to leave the coalition government?
Would love to hear Gingrich and Romney asked if they would execute money to the IMF to bail out Germany and the eurocrats, but I’d imagine it will never happen and the funding will be executed behind closed doors no matter who is president (aside from perhaps Ron Paul).
I quite agree with your assessment.
The German government has displayed a remarkable deal of economic common-sense, and to their credit.
Everyone else in Europe wants to go the Keyensian route out of this problem; the Germans are insisting on fiscal responsibility.
The German model is socialism through ridiculous subsidies, with national defense paid for by the US and the UK. Time to end their free ride. The only reason they have a relatively modest deficit is because they spend almost nothing to defend themselves relative to their GDP.
I don’t know much about Hungary, but the Czech Republic just elected a right wing nationalist government last year. I don’t see their parlaiment going for this.
The Swedes have their own currency. They would be stupid to sign up, but they may well be stupid.
I've spent a LOT of time in Hungary, Czech Rep, and Poland...and I couldn't agree more. Also about the women...
You're probably right. If the financial transaction tax is imposed in the Eurozone every German, French, Italian etc bank will only deal in London to avoid the tax.
One thing is for sure the rest of Europe is going to be playing by the German rules in the future. Its going to be very interesting to see how long the populations of France, Italy, Spain etc acquiesce to being ruled by Eurocrats dominated by Germany.
R.I.P. Democracy in Europe.
I'm not so sure it is turning out to Germany's advantage. The bailee countries are looking to Germany for a big handout.
To try to keep Europe afloat until after Obama is out of office.
Wasn’t Cameron carrying the EU’s water up til now? What the heck happened? And is his conversion sincere?
We can try to bail them out. There is not enough money. Period. All of this is just a delaying tactic.
Angela “Bumdestag” Merkel. Note to Europe: Way to go!
“The Communists lied to their people less than our media does.”
Good point! One difference: the media can’t send us off to Siberia for disagreeing with them. At least literally. They’re too busy turning the whole country into Siberia or Uganda.
How many months till we hit it do you think?
They were as good as the Swiss, but after the Euro split off, the Swiss were more or less alone in trying to control inflation, but that pretty much ended with the tax "evasion" investigation in 2008 (which was nothing more than a kudgle to force the Swiss to inflate).
I know we’re bailing all these bastards out, and when we finally run out of money, do you think they’ll thank us? No, they’ll say — just LOOK at what they’ve borrowed to continue their lavish lifestyles and now they can’t pay their debts. We’re not gonna just say, ‘oh, okay.’