Skip to comments.Wanted: Blue-Collar Workers - Who will power America’s new industrial revolution?
Posted on 12/09/2011 8:43:24 PM PST by neverdem
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Just doin' the work that Americans won't do.
But there are 1 BILLION of them, and only 350,000,000 of us!
(There'd be more; but it wasn't convenient.)
It goes even further....MGD's company just fired an engineer, a fairly young, but established recent hire within the last 9 months. The guy is married, just bought a house. Failed his random "whiz quiz".
This guy should have known better than to be so stupid.
Easier said than done. Many young people lack the motivation and foresight to be able to successfully complete an apprenticeship, which starts out at a relatively low rate of pay. They come in, work for a few days and then say, "This is too hard and too messy. Why should I work so hard when I can make more on unemployment?"
“I blame the failed everybody must have a college degree”...
It really is absurd the way college has been devalued. A bachelor of arts is now equivalent to maybe a REAL eighth grade education. I have not met a recent graduate of our local university who could hold his own with a “C” average high school graduate of the 1950’s era. That school is cranking out history majors who literally could not pass a test to ENTER a 1955 era public high school here. I went to a graduation ceremony in ‘06 and it seemed as if ninety percent of those receiving degrees were graduating with “high honors”.
Here are the skills most lacking; Read and write at the level needed for modern industrial production, get to work unimpaired on time every day, and work in the group without causing upset. That’s all I look for in my temporary business, and these skills are uncommon indeed.
The Feds won’t let people work as independents if they are required to follow the employer’s schedule, at his workplace. They’re convinced that $40-50 billion per year in tax revenue is evaded by independent contractors improperly working.
They force the states to do their dirty work; I just had an unemployment insurance audit for this.
“The Feds wont let people work as independents if they are required to follow the employers schedule, at his workplace. Theyre convinced that $40-50 billion per year in tax revenue is evaded by independent contractors improperly working.
They force the states to do their dirty work; I just had an unemployment insurance audit for this.”
Many staff jobs can be done on the contractor’s own time and do not need to follow the hours of the company in question - I think this is manageable. I worked from home and worked plenty of odd hours.
But maybe they all wouldn’t. If they’re worried there isn’t such a program they need to at least make an effort. If they don’t have the response, that’s one thing. But at least they can’t say “there’s no apprenticeship program” and try to pass the buck on down the line.
Until recently, Karen Buchwald Wright '74 had never even heard of St. Olaf College's Great Conversation program.
But then she sat down for lunch with President David R. Anderson '74, who suggested that the program a sequence of five rigorous courses that traces the development of literary and artistic expression, philosophic thought, religious belief, and historical reflections on Western culture into the modern world might interest her.
It did. So much so that Wright provided the college with a $1 million gift to establish the Karen Buchwald Wright '74 Endowment for the Support of the Great Conversation. The spendable portion of the endowment's annual earnings will be doubled through the Strategic Initiative Match, a St. Olaf Board of Regents program that provides matching funds for certain gifts above $50,000 that support the college's strategic plan.
Sounds like that’s the way it is.
“Nope; plain ol’ supply and demand: Economics 101”
Importing cheap labor to drive wages down is, in fact, a mortal sin.
The last time I drove by the Ford plant; the UAW was striking for higher wages...
“The last time I drove by the Ford plant; the UAW was striking for higher wages...”
The labor unions also have their part to play in destroying the United States.
However, the original comment was this: Through so called temporary work visas and internships, companies like Microsoft have crushed salaries for first year and mid-level USA born programmers.
That means that MS is importing these workers from overseas. They are far from the only company to engage in this practice. In addition, you might have heard something about the 20 million illegal aliens within our borders, whose presence has also served to drive down wages.
These things should not be happening.
True; but it's FAR from being a Mortal Sin.
“True; but it’s FAR from being a Mortal Sin.”
No, it is quite definitely a mortal sin. It is one of the sins that cries out to Heaven. (5) Injustice to the wage earner. [Deut. 24:14-5; Jas. 5:4], # 1867 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
14 Do not take advantage of a hired worker who is poor and needy, whether that worker is a fellow Israelite or a foreigner residing in one of your towns.
15 Pay them their wages each day before sunset, because they are poor and are counting on it. Otherwise they may cry to the LORD against you, and you will be guilty of sin.
I'm sorry, but these verses do NOT apply.
Nothing about hiring others that WILL work than less than you.
Perhaps you should about the workers in the vineyard parable; who whined because they got paid less per hour than others.
“I’m sorry, but these verses do NOT apply.”
In Rerum Novarum, On the Condition of the Working Classes, an Encyclical Letter of His Holiness Pope Leo XIII issued on May 15, 1891, the Holy Father wrote:
32. Among the most important duties of employers the principal one is to give every worker what is justly due him. Assuredly, to establish a rule of pay in accord with justice, many factors must be taken into account. But, in general, the rich and employers must remember that no laws, either human or divine, permit them for their own profit to oppress the needy and the wretched or to seek gain from anothers want. To defraud anyone of the wage due him is a great crime that calls down avenging wrath from Heaven, Behold, the wages of the laborers...which have been kept back by you unjustly, cry out: and their cry has entered into the ears of the Lord of Hosts.
61. We shall now touch upon a matter of very great importance, and one which must be correctly understood in order to avoid falling into error on one side or the other. We are told that free consent fixes the amount of a wage; that therefore the employer, after paying the wage agreed to would seem to have discharged his obligation and not to owe anything more; that only then would injustice be done if either the employer should refuse to pay the whole amount of the wage, or the worker should refuse to perform all the work to which he had committed himself; and that in those cases, but in no others, is it proper for the public authority to safeguard the rights of each party. (This would seem to be your position, Elsie.)
62. An impartial judge would *not* assent readily or without reservation to this reasoning, because it is not complete in all respects; one factor to be considered, and one of the greatest importance, is missing. To work is to expend ones energy for the purpose of securing the things necessary for the various needs of life and especially for its preservation. In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread. Accordingly, in man sweat-labor has two marks, as it were, implanted by nature, so that it is truly personal, because work energy inheres in the person and belongs completely to him by whom it is expended, and for whose use it is destined by nature; and secondly, that it is necessary, because man has need of the fruit of his labors to preserve his life, and nature itself, which must be most strictly obeyed, commands him to preserve it. If labor should be considered only under the aspect that it is personal, there is no doubt that it would be entirely in the workers power to set the amount of the agreed wage at too low a figure. For inasmuch as he performs work by his own free will, he can also by his own free will be satisfied with either a paltry wage for his work or even with none at all. But this matter must be judged far differently, if with the factor of personality we combine the factor of necessity, from which indeed the former is separable in thought but not in reality. In fact, to preserve ones life is a duty common to all individuals, and to neglect this duty is a crime. Hence arises necessarily the right of securing things to sustain life, and only a wage earned by his labor gives a poor man the means to acquire these things.
63. Let it be granted then that worker and employer may enter freely into agreements and, in particular, concerning the amount of the wage; yet there is always underlying such agreements an element of natural justice, and one greater and more ancient than the free consent of contracting parties, namely, that the wage shall not be less than enough to support a worker who is thrifty and upright. If, compelled by necessity or moved by fear of a worse evil, a worker accepts a harder condition, which although against his will he must accept because an employer or contractor imposes it, he certainly submits to force, against which justice cries out in protest.
66. But if the productive activity of the multitude can be stimulated by the hope of acquiring some property in land, it will gradually come to pass that, with the difference between extreme wealth and extreme penury removed, one class will become neighbor to the other .All can see how much this willing eagerness contributes to an abundance of produce and the wealth of a nation. Hence, in the third place, will flow the benefit that men can easily be kept from leaving the country in which they have been born and bred; for they would not exchange their native country for a foreign land if their native country furnished them sufficient means of living.
People who use cheap foreign labor are not giving every worker what is justly due him. They are for their own profit oppressing the needy and the wretched and seeking gain from anothers want. In fact, they use that cheap foreign labor specifically because they do not want to pay a just wage.
Your position fails to take into account that a persons work energy is both personal and necessary. If labor should be considered only under the aspect that it is personal, there is no doubt that it would be entirely in the workers power to set the amount of the agreed wage at too low a figure. However, the personal nature of work can only be separated from its necessary nature in thought but not in reality.
man has need of the fruit of his labors to preserve his life, and nature itself, which must be most strictly obeyed, commands him to preserve it. In fact, to preserve ones life is a duty common to all individuals, and to neglect this duty is a crime. Hence arises necessarily the right of securing things to sustain life, and only a wage earned by his labor gives a poor man the means to acquire these things.
The influx of cheap, usually illegal, foreign labor has the effect of driving wages down for all of us, and that cannot be denied. Those who use that labor are denying the foreign laborers what they are entitled tojust compensationand are at the same time using the power represented by that labor pool to deny the rest of us a just wage, or even adequate employment. (And dont go off chasing the illusion that there is anything socialist about what I have just said.)
What has caused this situation?
1. Our immigration laws are not being enforced. This sort of alliance between business and government, with its purpose of harming just about everyone else, is *not* capitalism. It is properly termed mercantilism. Under free-market capitalism, the government does not abuse its powers to distort markets in this way.
2. Excessive demands by some labor unions have handicapped many giant companies ability to compete.
3. Excessive regulation by unelected bureaucrats has made it extremely difficult for American businesses to do business in America. We must have a constitutional amendment barring enabling acts, which allow despicable scoundrels in congress to pass off their lawmaking powers to agencies such as the EPA, BATF, etc. The Department of Education, for corns sake, has a SWAT team.
4. Dumbing down of the schools by malevolent leftists has greatly reduced the value of our human capital. Young people today cant even calculate a tip in their heads.
5. A general decline in morals and ethicswhich is to say, of the Christian Faithhas allowed moral lepers of all stripes to worm their way to the top in every area of the public and private sector, and these loathsome vermin have no interest in the welfare of their own organizations, much less of the United States.
The purchasing power of wages has plunged since the 1960s, faster even than inflation has risen. In 1969, a young person could live adequately on $100 a week. Now, if we say that there has been 500% inflation since then, a young person should be able to live adequately on $500 a week. Should be able to pay rent, buy food and clothing for his wife and himself, maintain a used car, and even have something left over for a recreation budget.
Is that happening? $2,000 a month is a pittance for a married couple, even in low-cost areas.
If they took our jobs seems too simple to you, try they are killing our Republic. The Mexicans come up and work for an unjustly low wage because they are compelled by necessity or moved by fear of a worse evil. They (accept) a harder condition because employers impose it. In this, they certainly (submit) to force, against which justice cries out in protest.
At the same time, the effect of this pool of cheap labor on the United States is disastrous. Because of it, employers have the power to insist on ever-lower wages, and we are compelled by necessity or moved by fear of a worse evil to accept those wagesif we can get them. We are submitting to force, plain and simple.
If your position is accepted, employers can continue to drive wages down until they reach a level just slightly above those in Mexico. It would be stupid and unjust of them to do so, but when is the last time you saw that stop a corporate bean counter?
Those Bible verses, therefore, most certainly do apply.
Importing cheap labor to drive wages down is a mortal sin.
It is worth noting that no policy to the left of Ronald Reagan has the slightest chance of improving any of this in the slightest. Can’t go too far to the right on this one.
NOW I see from where Liberation Theology emanates.
“...Perhaps you should about the workers in the vineyard parable...”
I certainly make no claim to be a biblical scholar, but I have always thought that parable referred to salvation and not to the literal worker and wages.
I thought it had to do with those who had accepted Christ early in life and lived a long virtuous life (laboring in the vineyard) being promised the kingdom of heaven,
comparing themselves to those who may have led a long life of debauchery and then later in life accepted Christ,
yet both received the same blessing.
I never thought it was actually or literally about wages and labor, but as I said, I do not claim to be a biblical scholar.
So when evening was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, call the laborers, and give them their hire.
And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.
But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.
And when they had received it, they murmured against the good man of the house, saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.
But he answered one of them, and said, friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny? Take that thine is, and go thy way, I will give unto this last, even as unto thee. Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good? So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
Believe me doing software development is not much different. I've done both. At least with grunt work you get outside sometimes when it is actually nice out and the physical activity isn't all that bad for you.
Engineers, Software and Networking people have no union. But maybe they should.
H-1b visa holders can’t switch jobs and are wage slaves. Are you in favor of that?
“NOW I see from where Liberation Theology emanates.”
No, you do not. Only a catastrophic misreading of that material could result in such a ridiculous comment.
Frankly, I doubt that you read it at all.
You are correct; but parables are chosen to illustrate a spiritual principle by using a familiar setting or occurance.
Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own?
They are GROWNUPS and KNEW what they were getting into when they SIGNED the papers!
Read the LAW!
Only a catastrophic misreading of the Scriptures you provided could come up with a MORTAL sin.
Frankly, I doubt that you read it at all.
Two pages of 'explanations' for a few verses says SPIN: not clarity.
So your son or daughter goes to college works hard and gets an engineering degree. If they can even get a job on graduation they have to compete with H1-B visas holders that suppress their wages. You are OK with that?
You have no idea the degree of contempt I have for you.
It is called Capitalism.
Would you rather have a different system?
Is THIS where you are coming from?
You are right; I don't.
What is your answer to the article's dilemma?
We have a very skilled workforce, but they are getting older, says Wright, who employs 1,200 people at three Ohio factories. I dont know where we are going to find replacements.
It is simply supply and demand. If wages are allowed to increase then more people will train for the jobs and acquire the skills. Everyone believes in the free market except when it comes to labor, slavers like yourself want to undercut the process.
I can distinguish between American non-union workers and imported foreigners. If you can then you are dangerous to the republic. What percent of private sector US workers are in unions? Do you know?
I say we send to China one American, like yourself, for each imported wage slave. Fair?
Who does the controlling?
In every job I ever had, the employer said what he'd pay and I either accepted or countered.
What have I done to the market?
Can I go to GERMANY instead?
You can go to a hotter place.
I believe in borders and national identity. If we have 300,000,000 people and free markets INSIDE the USA then there will never be a labor shortage. If the business plan of a company includes the need to import labor then they need a new plan. I can get a citizen to work for me in any field if I am willing to pay the prevailing wage. Importing foreigners is a political decision one where I get to try and stop-politically. I believe in free markets right up to the waters edge. Then again I am a loyal American, what are you?
Where you in a career field, like software or engineering, that has H1-B visa holders competing for your job?
Who sets this?
Can I then assume that you've let your REPRESENTATIVEs in power know your feelings?
THEY are the ones that make policy; not me.
Have you told THEM about that Hotter Place?
Is ANYone in a field that has NO ONE 'competing for their job'?