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Another version of Mike McQueary's story about Jerry Sandusky surfaces
Pennlive.com ^ | 12-11-11 | Sarah Ganim

Posted on 12/11/2011 6:18:26 AM PST by FlJoePa

STATE COLLEGE -- Minutes after Mike McQueary says he stumbled upon something between Jerry Sandusky and a boy in a Penn State shower in 2002, he went to his father’s State College home seeking advice.

There, Dr. Jonathan Dranov, a family friend and colleague of McQueary’s father, sat with the then 28-year-old graduate assistant and listened to his very first account of what he had seen, a source told The Patriot-News.

According to the source with knowledge of Dranov’s testimony before the grand jury, it went like this:

McQueary heard "sex sounds" and the shower running, and a young boy stuck his head around the corner of the shower stall, peering at McQueary as an adult arm reached around his waist and pulled him back out of view.

Seconds later, Sandusky left the shower in a towel.

That account is different from the hand-written statement obtained by The Patriot-News that McQueary provided for investigators when he was interviewed in 2010.

It’s also different than the summary of his grand jury testimony in the 23-page initial grand jury presentment.

In both of those accounts, McQueary says he witnessed Sandusky sodomizing a boy as he stood with his hands against a shower wall.

McQueary says the pair turned and looked at him before he left.

However, Dranov told grand jurors that he asked McQueary three times if he saw anything sexual, and three times McQueary said no, according to the source.

Because of that response, the source says, Dranov told McQueary that he should talk to his boss, head football coach Joe Paterno, rather than police.

The next day Paterno and McQueary talked, and Paterno’s response to the conversation was widely scrutinized when the grand jury presentment was made public in November.

Paterno said graphic detail, such as rape, was never mentioned to him. But public outcry led to his firing five days after Sandusky was charged.

But more importantly than public opinion, Mike McQueary’s story is a key element to all the criminal cases involved in the Sandusky scandal.

His witness testimony was the only evidence of an assault in 2002 presented to grand jurors, and his detailed account is the reason that perjury charges were filed against two ousted Penn State officials. Both said they were told only about horseplay that made McQueary uncomfortable, while McQueary testified he told them explicit details about a rape.

Repeated attempts to reach McQueary over the past month for comment have been unsuccessful. McQueary was placed on leave after receiving death threats as a result of his testimony about allegations against Jerry Sandusky from people who believe he did not do enough to stop the alleged assault.

Friday, former Athletic Director Tim Curley and Vice President Gary Schultz will face a preliminary hearing on charges of perjury and failure to report a crime.

The case against them is dependent on the premise that McQueary’s testimony is more credible than theirs. Saturday, attorneys for Curley and Schultz issued this statement in response to Dranov’s testimony:

"We have not seen the grand jury transcript, so it would be imprudent to comment on its content. But, if this information is true, and we believe it is, it would be powerful, exculpatory evidence, and the charges against our clients should be dismissed."

His testimony might also be important on Tuesday to the case against Sandusky.

Jerry Sandusky arraignment on new charges Enlarge ANDY COLWELL, The Patriot-News Former Penn State football defensive coordinator Jerry" Sandusky, right, leaves the office of Centre County District Justice Daniel A. Hoffman under escort by Pennsylvania State Police and Attorney General's Office officials in Bellefonte, Pa. on Thursday, Dec. 7, following a grand jury investigation related to numerous child sex charges. ANDYCOLWELL for The Patriot-News Jerry Sandusky is arraigned on new child sexual abuse charges gallery (10 photos)

Jerry Sandusky mug Jerry Sandusky arraignment on new charges Jerry Sandusky arraignment on new charges Jerry Sandusky arraignment on new charges Jerry Sandusky arraignment on new charges

Vowing to prove his innocence, Sandusky and his attorney, Joe Amendola, are sure to point out the inconsistencies in McQueary’s statements at a preliminary hearing in Bellefonte. Sandusky has been charged with more than 50 counts and maintained his innocence.

Since charges were filed Nov. 4, several variations of McQueary’s story have come out publicly.

His grand jury testimony says he heard slapping noises and saw a boy being sodomized by Sandusky. His hand-written statement to police says, "I did not see insertion. I am certain that sexual acts/the young boy being sodomized was occurring." He says the whole incident lasted about a minute. In an email he sent to friends following the firing of Joe Paterno, he says "I made sure it stopped," something not mentioned in the grand jury testimony or police statement. And now Dranov’s testimony describes a new scenario.

About two months after the incident McQueary describes in March 2002, Dranov and McQueary’s father, John, both physicians, had an unrelated meeting scheduled at Penn State with Gary Schultz, Dranov told the grand jury, according to the source.

Curious about how the story ended, Dranov inquired about what ever happened to Sandusky.

According to a source with knowledge of his testimony, Schultz told him then-university President Graham Spanier had met with Sandusky.

That’s something that isn’t mentioned in the grand jury presentment.

Spanier, who was forced to resign the same night Paterno was fired, testified before the grand jury that he had signed off on a decision to ban Sandusky from bringing children to the locker rooms in the future; however, Spanier, Curley and Schultz all deny they were ever informed a sexual assault occurred that night.

Attempts to reach Dranov were unsuccessful.

Sandusky, through Amendola, has offered yet another version of what happened in the showers. He doesn’t deny there was a boy showering with Sandusky that night, but Amendola says the child was surfing in the shower — horsing around — and never saw McQueary come into the locker room.

Instead, Amendola says, a few days later Sandusky was contacted by Curley, told that someone felt uncomfortable about what they’d seen, and Sandusky gave the name and phone number of the boy to Curley to help clear up the situation.

The grand jury report points out that no effort was made to contact the boy.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; US: Pennsylvania
KEYWORDS: dranov; mcqueary; pa; pedophilia; pennstate; sandusky; spanier
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To: FlJoePa

The grand jury presentment says MM told JP what he saw.
They leave the details out.
As has been discussed in other Penn State threads - this could be a courtesy to JoePa, as he will be called to testify in the future.

If you are referring to what JoePa claims he was told - you are correct.

The presentment describes the details of what MM told his father. What he told Curley (rape), what he told Schults (rape), and yet when it comes to the details of what he said to JoePa? - MM told JoePa what he saw.

As far as JoePa’s own admission - at the very least he describes sexual abuse, which is still a crime that needs to be reported to the police


51 posted on 12/11/2011 11:22:58 AM PST by Scotswife
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To: Perdogg

“The Grand Jury report stated the Paterno met the legal obligation under the Pennsylvania State Code, in fact, the law did not require Paterno to do more what he did.”

I understand that. Hopefully this case will highlight a need for that “legal obligation” to require more of adults who, sadly, should have known better.

” However, what is the moral metric that you have now invented to judge whether someone has acted morally and should we apply to everyone now for every crime?”

Why is this so difficult? Why is it so hard to expect people to pick up the phone, dial the police, and say, “hey, I’ve got an eyewitness to a terrible crime here in my office. Could you come on over?”
Up to that point - MM had received terrible advice from 2 men who should have known better.
JoePa could have done alot right then and there to help the boy. He did not. He punted to Curley - but only after waiting until the next day.
You do understand why that alone is a terrible thing?
The faster the police can get to a rape victim, the better the quality of the evidence against the rapist.

And after telling Curley? The next meeting did not occur until a full week later.

“What if Joe called the police and the dispatch at the police taken down the information. Has the moral metric been met,” Yes.

“or does Joe have to commandeered a squad car and personally arrest Sandusky? “

I haven’t seen anyone anywhere make that claim. Have you?


52 posted on 12/11/2011 11:31:00 AM PST by Scotswife
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To: Scotswife

It is not Joepa responsibility to the call the police, it McQueary’s. Again, Joepa did not see what happened.


53 posted on 12/11/2011 11:44:39 AM PST by Perdogg
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To: Scotswife
forget about the Police. at least tell the boys parent(s). would everyone agree you have at least that much responsibility?

if it was me, i would like to think i would have confronted sandusky on the spot and asked him WTF? and then insisted on having the parent come in and relate it to them, in front of sandusky if he insisted. if he pushed back on that, then i would call the police on the spot.

as for Paterno, there was a lot of gossip for many years, and if there was no crime, why was Jerry “banned” from the campus with young kids? so Paterno knew or had reason to suspect and know. for that, he loses all my respect, and even not technically a criminal, he is an enabler to the subsequent assaults on young men.

54 posted on 12/11/2011 12:31:22 PM PST by beebuster2000
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To: Perdogg

As someone who has JoePa’s “Football My Way” book - plus his biography.
And didn’t mind my household was full of JoePa worshippers,because I thought he was an excellent role model. A humble catholic, and a downright great guy - I expected so much more from someone who taught so many others to go “above and beyond”

You say it wasn’t his responsibility?
The articles have said it is not his “legal” responsibility.
He certainly failed in a moral capacity at this point.
Yes - McQeary should have called the police, but his negligent father sent him to JoePa instead.
JoePa had the eyewitness right in his office.

I would hope that JoePa would have been horrified that Sandusky would rape a child in the football facilities.

I would suspect anyone on this FReeper board would have reacted differently and picked up the phone.

JoePa didn’t even tell McQueary to call the police. He told McQueary he would report it to Curley.

Yay for JoePa!


55 posted on 12/11/2011 12:39:50 PM PST by Scotswife
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To: beebuster2000

“forget about the Police.”

ummmm....let’s not.
The nature of the crimes pretty much rule that out.

” at least tell the boys parent(s). would everyone agree you have at least that much responsibility?”

That would be nice. The only one who knew the identity of the boy and his parents would be the rapist himself.
If the police had been called, they could have found the family. They could have taken the boy to the hospital and started gathering crucial evidence.


56 posted on 12/11/2011 12:45:43 PM PST by Scotswife
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To: Scotswife

not sure what you mean.

obviously the boy himself knows his own parents. the parents should have been called immeadiately by McQ, with or without sandusky present.


57 posted on 12/11/2011 1:08:44 PM PST by beebuster2000
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To: FlJoePa

With the technical problems earlier, I missed reading this post.

from page 6 of the presentment...

“Joseph V. Paterno testified to receiving the graduate assistant’s report at his home on a Saturday morning....”

it goes on to describing the sequence of events where JoePa called Curley the next day.
“...Paterno called Tim Curley, (”Curley”),...to his home the very next day, a sunday, and reported to him that the graduate assistant had seen Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy...”

I don’t know about you, but from where I come from...when an adult showers in the nude with a child and sexually assaults him...that is a crime that should be reported to the police.


58 posted on 12/11/2011 1:20:26 PM PST by Scotswife
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To: beebuster2000

how would McQueary even know who the boy was? He most likely was, like the other victims, a Second Mile kid.

As far as I can tell...no one tried to locate the boy.


59 posted on 12/11/2011 1:22:42 PM PST by Scotswife
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To: Scotswife

I’m still waiting for the link to “Joe’s version of the events” that you read. If you could find that, that would be a real game changer.

As to why it took over a week for the Curley/Schultz meeting - it was spring break. The campus was completely shut down.


60 posted on 12/11/2011 1:47:48 PM PST by FlJoePa ("Success without honor is an unseasoned dish; it will satisfy your hunger, but it won't taste good")
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To: FlJoePa

In the paragraph prior to the section dealing with JoePa, the presentment states McQueary described to JoePa, “...what he had seen.”

Whatever that may be.

And so we see an odd game of the children’s game of “telephone”.

McQueary sees anal rape in the shower.
He describes “what he has seen” to JoePa.
Joe - according to the presentment - describes showering in the nude with fondling, or something of a sexual nature.
Curley describes horseplay
Shultz describes horseplay or something of a not too serious nature.

And, coincidentally, that is exactly how Sandusky describes it himself during his television interviews....”horseplay”

So...after all of this, in 2002, Sandusky still shows up to Penn State Football events...practices, banquets, overnights at Toftrees, tailgates...with young boys in full view of these men who carried on these strange discussions about him.


61 posted on 12/11/2011 1:49:25 PM PST by Scotswife
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To: FlJoePa

Joe’s version of the events are in the presentment. I assumed you had read it?
Here is one link...

http://cbsboston.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/sandusky-grand-jury-presentment.pdf";

Go to page 6.

Administrators duties do not cease just because there is a break, especially when there is something this serious going on. I assume they must have cell phones?
And if they cannot be reached?
All the more reason to pick up the phone yourself and call the police.


62 posted on 12/11/2011 1:56:24 PM PST by Scotswife
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To: Scotswife

he didnt need to locate him, he was right there !!

what are you talking about? i was talking about intervening at the point he made the observation. thats when the parents, and probably the police needed to be called in.

not later. he left while a kid was being molested! thats as serious a crime against man and God as there is. he will go to hell for being a coward, and deserves to. he put his own career ahead of the kids welfare.


63 posted on 12/11/2011 2:34:48 PM PST by beebuster2000
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To: Scotswife
"Joe’s version of the events are in the presentment"

No. The AG's version of Joe's version of the events are in the presentment.

64 posted on 12/11/2011 2:51:20 PM PST by FlJoePa ("Success without honor is an unseasoned dish; it will satisfy your hunger, but it won't taste good")
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To: FlJoePa

For later


65 posted on 12/11/2011 3:23:26 PM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Perdogg

“There is no controlling legal authority that says this was in violation of law.”


66 posted on 12/11/2011 4:29:55 PM PST by Oztrich Boy (New gets old. Steampunk is always cool)
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To: FlJoePa

oh I see!

you think they didn’t accurately portray Paterno’s testimony?

Has JoePa, or his son, claimed this?


67 posted on 12/11/2011 5:20:00 PM PST by Scotswife
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To: Oztrich Boy
I am not sure what you mean. Some one said jp should be indicted. Indicted is a legal term and I asked for a specific law that jp broke. I did not start this. No one has been able to come up with an indictable offense.
68 posted on 12/11/2011 5:22:46 PM PST by Perdogg
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To: Scotswife

Never claimed that at all - nor do I think it is the case.

I would just like to see his actual testimony. In quotes. I’d hope for an interview at some point, but with his health...

Why can’t people like you WAIT until all the facts come in before you kick 61 years of impeccable service to the curb like its yesterday’s trash?

Why?


69 posted on 12/11/2011 5:27:17 PM PST by FlJoePa ("Success without honor is an unseasoned dish; it will satisfy your hunger, but it won't taste good")
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To: beebuster2000

well sure - we are in complete agreement about that.

And once he left - he lost that chance to get the child immediately to the hospital.
He also lost the ability to quickly identify him - and find his parents.
But it didn’t stop there....every “adult” right on down the line failed the boy too.

A bunch of people pretending to “do something”, when all they did was make phone calls amongst each other, and have meetings with each other. The police were not involved in this lame so-called “action”.

And what was the response from the university?
Hey Jerry - we don’t want you bringing those boys on the main campus...however, you can still conduct those overnight football camps at our satellite campuses.

Jerry’s response? He kept right on bringing those boys with him to Penn State football events..in full view of these “men” who supposedly disciplined him.
Their response?.....crickets.

It wasn’t until victim #1’s mother got wind of what was going on that the wheels of justice, very slowly, started to roll.


70 posted on 12/11/2011 5:28:29 PM PST by Scotswife
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To: beebuster2000

well sure - we are in complete agreement about that.

And once he left - he lost that chance to get the child immediately to the hospital.
He also lost the ability to quickly identify him - and find his parents.
But it didn’t stop there....every “adult” right on down the line failed the boy too.

A bunch of people pretending to “do something”, when all they did was make phone calls amongst each other, and have meetings with each other. The police were not involved in this lame so-called “action”.

And what was the response from the university?
Hey Jerry - we don’t want you bringing those boys on the main campus...however, you can still conduct those overnight football camps at our satellite campuses.

Jerry’s response? He kept right on bringing those boys with him to Penn State football events..in full view of these “men” who supposedly disciplined him.
Their response?.....crickets.

It wasn’t until victim #1’s mother got wind of what was going on that the wheels of justice, very slowly, started to roll.


71 posted on 12/11/2011 5:28:44 PM PST by Scotswife
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To: Scotswife

IIRC wasn’t Curely in charge of the police.


72 posted on 12/11/2011 5:35:12 PM PST by Perdogg
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To: FlJoePa

I’m assuming the presentment is accurately describing JoePa’s testimony. Why wouldn’t they?

And if they did not, it seems the Paternos would have disputed it and requested a correction or retraction.

So far - the fact is that he did not call the police. The presentment describes a chain of events whereby a series of men kicked the can down the road while a child rape victim went home with no one to help him.

JoePa did indeed have a stellar career.
One reason I admired him, at one point, is because I thought he might be the last person to behave like this.


73 posted on 12/11/2011 5:38:16 PM PST by Scotswife
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To: Scotswife
I thought he might be the last person to behave like this

With all due respect, you have no idea how he behaved. All you know is a leaked GJ summary. Paterno did go to Curley and Schultz (responsible for PSU Police-who had jurisdiction). Paterno saw nothing himself. He could have easily told McQueary to take care of it himself, but he went the extra step. Now it seems mcQueary has had multiple stories; we have no idea what he told Paterno in the first place.

As usual, the media mob has taken over before the facts are known. Pretty ironic since Paterno's biggest critic, ESPN, sat on a tape for over 8 years.

74 posted on 12/11/2011 6:05:49 PM PST by Neverforget01 (Beating Romney is so easy McCain did it.)
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To: Neverforget01

so...if someone close to you ever comes to you and gives you an eyewitness account of a crime that was committed, you think it is acceptable to wait a day before calling anyone?
We do know JoePa waited a day...it’s in the report, he testified to it.
And after that - a week went by before the next meeting.

Would you, or would you not call the police yourself?
And if you did not...would you urge the eyewitness to call the police?

“Extra step”?? really now. What good did that extra step do to anyone except Penn State and the rapist?
No follow up. No help for the victim.

And afterwards?
The pedophile continues to abuse children.
And who must have seen him, time after time, at football events, breakfasts, practices - with a young boy?
The very same man who, you say, “went the extra step”


75 posted on 12/11/2011 6:14:41 PM PST by Scotswife
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To: Neverforget01

so...if someone close to you ever comes to you and gives you an eyewitness account of a crime that was committed, you think it is acceptable to wait a day before calling anyone?
We do know JoePa waited a day...it’s in the report, he testified to it.
And after that - a week went by before the next meeting.

Would you, or would you not call the police yourself?
And if you did not...would you urge the eyewitness to call the police?

“Extra step”?? really now. What good did that extra step do to anyone except Penn State and the rapist?
No follow up. No help for the victim.

And afterwards?
The pedophile continues to abuse children.
And who must have seen him, time after time, at football events, breakfasts, practices - with a young boy?
The very same man who, you say, “went the extra step”


76 posted on 12/11/2011 6:15:03 PM PST by Scotswife
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To: Scotswife; AFA-Michigan; Abathar; Absolutely Nobama; Albion Wilde; AliVeritas; Antoninus; ...
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Be sure to click the FreeRepublic homosexual agenda keyword search link for a list of all related articles. We don't ping you to all related articles so be sure to click the previous link to see the latest articles.

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Scotswife has been following this very carefully and her comments are excellent. Basically many people obviously knew that Sandusky was a serial homosexual child rapist, and they did nothing.

77 posted on 12/11/2011 6:17:44 PM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell.)
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To: Perdogg

Campus police.

Which, clearly, were not up to the job.

And as the boy was not a college student it would be fitting to call the local State College police, yes?

Unless you aren’t all that concerned with actually finding him and helping him.


78 posted on 12/11/2011 6:18:28 PM PST by Scotswife
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To: Scotswife
And as the article of this thread states, it is unclear what McQueary told Joe Paterno.

Ask yourself this: Why would Paterno have a need to cover up for a retired coach who no longer reported to him? If he wanted to cover up he could have called everyone liars and claimed ignorance like Boeheim has.

79 posted on 12/11/2011 6:25:13 PM PST by Neverforget01 (Beating Romney is so easy McCain did it.)
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To: Neverforget01

Go to the Grand Jury Presentment, page 6, and you will see what JoePa described.

If you heard something like this, yourself, what would you do?


80 posted on 12/11/2011 6:27:37 PM PST by Scotswife
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To: Scotswife
You do know Paterno took it to campus authorities, and if he had called State College police, they would have called campus police because the campus police has jurisdiction over crimes on campus? Do you know if Paterno followed up? No, no one does since we don't have the Grand Jury transcript.

Again, why would he cover up for a retired coach and cover up by reporting it? I'd be really careful in judging before you know all the facts.

81 posted on 12/11/2011 6:36:19 PM PST by Neverforget01 (Beating Romney is so easy McCain did it.)
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To: Neverforget01

We know there was no follow up, because no one found the boy did they?
It couldn’t have been that difficult.

Why does anyone cover up this stuff?
You are aware of the 1998 showering incident?

There are several reasons....people don’t like to confront the ugliness of the crimes. People don’t like to confront a friend and former co-coach with the accusation. People don’t want the publicity of the eventual fall-out to reflect poorly on the university.

There could be all sorts of reasons.

What I cannot fathom is why was everyone so afraid of this guy?
The story if full of cowards who declined to take him on.
Look at the testimony about the janitors who were terrified.

What was so darn scary about this guy that everyone allowed to him to wander about unimpeded?


82 posted on 12/11/2011 6:41:27 PM PST by Scotswife
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To: Perdogg

Actually, that’s incorrect.

Curley was the athletic director.
Schultz is a finance administrator who oversaw several departments - one of them being the campus police.

Since both were charged with perjury and failure to report, it’s safe to assume Schultz went nowhere with investigating the crime.

One tell-tale sign for JoePa would have been...that the pedophile kept popping up here and there - with boys.


83 posted on 12/11/2011 6:58:12 PM PST by Scotswife
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To: Scotswife
people don’t like to confront the ugliness of the crimes. People don’t like to confront a friend and former co-coach with the accusation

So why did he report it at all? Why didn't he tell McQueary to report it since Paterno didn't see it himself?

84 posted on 12/11/2011 7:03:27 PM PST by Neverforget01 (Beating Romney is so easy McCain did it.)
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To: Neverforget01

That’s where it gets interesting doesn’t it?

Because - from that point on is where we have the actions/inactions that resulted in arrests.

Curley and Schultz are claiming they didn’t hear anything about sexual abuse.
The presentment has JoePa describing fondling and something of a sexual nature.
McQueary says he told everyone about the abuse.

As for your questions? Maybe the upcoming court proceeding will answer all that - maybe not.

If you want to count alerting Schultz as “reporting to the police” - well, the meeting with Schultz did not occur until one week after the child was raped.
What kind of a system is that?
And Schultz is saying he didn’t know anything about any rape.

Meanwhile...elsewhere on campus, students in the education department are taking classes on protecting children, mandatory reporting, how to spot abused kids and how to help them.

Did you read about the victims that came after 2002?
Do you not think it’s odd how they describe being taken to PSU Football events?
Haven’t you wondered what on earth these men were thinking when they saw this pedophile with boys?

Remember...JoePa took on Nixon. He once threatened Spanier with cutting off the fundraising spigot.
Why on earth did he allow a pedophile to keep hanging around his football program?


85 posted on 12/11/2011 8:30:11 PM PST by Scotswife
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