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Fast and Furious Scandal Gives Rise to Gun Regulation Debate
Fox News ^ | December 15, 2011 | William Lajeunesse & Laura Prabucki

Posted on 12/15/2011 11:21:44 AM PST by jazusamo

As a candidate, Barack Obama once endorsed a ban on handguns and favored restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms. So when gun owners heard of Operation Fast and Furious, many feared the worst.

Now, newly revealed emails suggest that if the gun-running operation didn't start out with that intent, as administration officials insist, the program certainly led to discussions on new gun regulations.

"There's a lot of talk that President Obama stated that he is working for gun control with alternative methods," said Arizona gun dealer Jeff Serdy. "I hope this isn't one of them."

Serdy and others suspect the Obama administration used the gun-running operation to support regulations Congress would not even consider, namely, a rule requiring gun stores in the Southwest to report anyone who tries to buy multiple "long guns," or rifles, in a one-week period.

"If the American people learn that the motivations for all of this was to make a case to deprive them of their Second Amendment rights or to make a case to further the (Justice) department's ability to further regulate gun rights within the United States, that would make them very angry," said Arizona Republican Rep. Trent Franks.

Holder insists that's not accurate.

"Clearly, an attempt to use Fast and Furious as a way to bolster the request for that long-gun regulation would have been foolhardy," he told the House Judiciary Committee last week.

There is no evidence the administration initially considered using the operation to justify stronger gun laws. But as the investigation dragged on, and Washington saw more and more weapons from U.S. gun stores show up at Mexican crime scenes, at least some officials saw a political argument developing to support their legislative agenda.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: atf; banglist; corruption; dea; democratcorruption; democrats; dhs; doj; donttreadonme; fastandfurious; fbi; guncontrol; gunrunner; gunwalker; holder; obama; tyranny; undertheradar; youwillnotdisarmus

1 posted on 12/15/2011 11:21:52 AM PST by jazusamo
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To: MestaMachine

Ping!


2 posted on 12/15/2011 11:27:04 AM PST by jazusamo (The real minimum wage is zero: Thomas Sowell)
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To: jazusamo

Barack Obama once endorsed a ban on handguns and favored restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms.

This is a fact, and he knows he doesn’t have any chance of passing gun control by legal means. He has said in public with anti-gun groups that he was working on some solutions ‘under the radar’. I think Fast and Furious, as well as mass sales by the state dept to Mexico, demand letters to border states restricting multiple sales(with no legal right to do so) makes it plain to see what he is doing. It was nothing, but backdoor gun control, or as he says ‘under the radar’.


3 posted on 12/15/2011 11:28:11 AM PST by nobamanomore
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To: jazusamo
at least some officials saw a political argument developing to support their legislative agenda.

Head-spinning, headache-inducing AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

I'm losing my mind. I really am. This administration is getting away with so much corruption, and the media is complicit!

4 posted on 12/15/2011 11:29:29 AM PST by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: rarestia

Yep, it’s a crooked, corrupt, lying administration and the enemedia backs them to the hilt.


5 posted on 12/15/2011 11:32:47 AM PST by jazusamo (The real minimum wage is zero: Thomas Sowell)
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To: jazusamo
The government illegally transfers guns to criminals, then says it proves that we need more gun control laws placed on the peasants.

Machiavelli would be proud.

6 posted on 12/15/2011 11:33:39 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (FOREIGN AID: A transfer of money from poor people in rich countries to rich people in poor countries)
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To: MestaMachine; Nachum

F & F Ping


7 posted on 12/15/2011 11:34:51 AM PST by simplesimon (You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own "facts"...........)
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To: jazusamo

The Democrats love guns.....as long as they get to decide who to point them at.


8 posted on 12/15/2011 11:34:59 AM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: jazusamo
There is no evidence the administration initially considered using the operation to justify stronger gun laws.
BRAVO SIERRA!!! Everyone in the admin was spewing the 90% lie the whole time this operation was going on. That's all the evidence I need.
9 posted on 12/15/2011 11:35:56 AM PST by eyrish69 (Yellowstone Wolves - Smoke a Pack a Day!!!)
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To: nobamanomore

.

Might be good if a congresscritter asked Holder and Obama just what were the under the radar gun control activities...


10 posted on 12/15/2011 11:37:40 AM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: jazusamo
Fast and Furious Scandal Gives Rise to Gun Regulation Debate...

This is how upside down things are. The "debate" should be over what federal penetentiary a disgraced and convicted president and attorney general should be incarcerated at.
11 posted on 12/15/2011 11:37:50 AM PST by SpaceBar
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To: jazusamo

So...

Let’s skip the investigation about who let guns into mexico

and the fact that it got american federal agents killed...

...and go right back to the original plan~!

Which was to let criminals have guns, so we can claim that we need more gun control laws to stop criminals from getting guns


12 posted on 12/15/2011 11:39:28 AM PST by Mr. K (Physically unable to profreed <--- oops, see?)
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To: Joe Brower; Travis McGee; LucyT; vette6387; MetaThought; 60Gunner; XHogPilot; FreedomPoster; ...

13 posted on 12/15/2011 11:40:12 AM PST by MestaMachine (obama kills)
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To: jazusamo

I’m not in the mood to debate. BANG!


14 posted on 12/15/2011 11:43:30 AM PST by The Toll
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To: jazusamo
Holder insists that's not accurate.

Holder can insist in one hand and you-know-what in the other. We all know his word is worthless. He's a weaselly, rat-faced liar who belongs in an orange jumpsuit.

15 posted on 12/15/2011 11:44:50 AM PST by Disambiguator
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To: jazusamo

Transferring arms to drug cartels is terrorism. Use the new law and hold all these Fed-mobsters at Gitmo, without trial, indefinitely. Maybe that will loosen their tongues up.


16 posted on 12/15/2011 11:57:04 AM PST by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: jazusamo

Never let a crisis go to waste !! LOL , ROFL


17 posted on 12/15/2011 12:01:16 PM PST by molson209
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To: jazusamo
Holder insists that's not accurate.

"Clearly, an attempt to use Fast and Furious as a way to bolster the request for that long-gun regulation would have been foolhardy," he told the House Judiciary Committee last week.

Absolutely correct weasel face.

But that has nothing to do with the attempt to do just that.

On July 14, 2010 after ATF headquarters in Washington D.C. received an update on Fast and Furious, ATF Field Ops Assistant Director Mark Chait emailed Bill Newell, ATF’s Phoenix Special Agent in Charge of Fast and Furious:

“Bill – can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same (licensed gun dealer) and at one time. We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a demand letter on long gun multiple sales. Thanks.”

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-57338546-10391695/documents-atf-used-fast-and-furious-to-make-the-case-for-gun-regulations/

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2817349/posts

18 posted on 12/15/2011 12:10:12 PM PST by TLI ( ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA)
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To: molson209
Never let a crisis go to waste...

And if there is no crisis, create one.

19 posted on 12/15/2011 12:19:25 PM PST by BitWielder1 (Corporate Profits are better than Government Waste)
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To: TLI
But that has nothing to do with the attempt to do just that.

Exactly..."Foolhardy" is nothing more than an attempt by the lying Holder to cover their intentions and sane people are clued in to this administrations blatant law breaking.

Thanks for the links.

20 posted on 12/15/2011 12:42:32 PM PST by jazusamo (The real minimum wage is zero: Thomas Sowell)
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To: jazusamo

Fast and Furious was created deliberately to create a situation to justify gun control. Brian Terry died because of that misguided belief.

F&F violated the Constitution and was a serious effort to violate Americans Civil Rights. Because of that, the Government MUST relinquish a severe degree of control over firearms. We are not giving them a choice. Congress must repeal significant gun control laws on the books. Nothing less will be acceptable. The Government attempted to subvert the Rights of the American People and must be punished for doing so.

Repeals must include but not be limited to:

1. The NFA.
2. The Sporting Purpose Clause of the 1968 GCA.
3. The Hughes Amendment to FOPA 1986.
4. Any and all multiple purchase reporting requirements.

AND, we demand that all Government and LE exemptions to Firearms laws and regulations be removed and outlawed for any future legislation.

The Government messed up bad. They must pay for it.


21 posted on 12/15/2011 12:58:04 PM PST by BCR #226 (02/07 SOT www.extremefirepower.com...The BS stops when the hammer drops.)
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To: BCR #226

>we demand that all Government and LE exemptions to Firearms laws and regulations be removed and outlawed for any future legislation.

That is a VERY good idea; but we’ll have to pry the exemptions from their cold dead hands.


22 posted on 12/15/2011 6:13:52 PM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: OneWingedShark

Oh, I don’t think that will be necessary. We’ll get what we want.


23 posted on 12/15/2011 9:43:10 PM PST by BCR #226 (02/07 SOT www.extremefirepower.com...The BS stops when the hammer drops.)
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To: BCR #226

>Oh, I don’t think that will be necessary. We’ll get what we want.

I really don’t think so; and here’s why: the ‘exemptions’ are entirely ingrained into the culture not only of “law enforcement” but general government as well.
An example; consider security guards in court-houses. Armed.
The general citizen, unarmed; not only that, but an attempt to be armed in said courthouse will bring down harsh punishment.

The USSC has, however repeatedly ruled that the police have no affirmative obligation to ensure a particular citizen’s safety. This means that if “some crazy nutjob” busts into a courthouse you’re obligated to be in (say jury-duty), the police have no obligation to ensure your safety. Just like Columbine and other shootings in “gun free zones” the police generally stay back until the perp has offed himself (under the guise of “officer safety”) and even their militarized SWAT (under the guise of “officer safety”) will hold back... apparently “officer safety” justifies ANY and ALL disarming of citizens. [slight sarcasm]

But back to the courthouse example, how will the judge, the courthouse employees, and even the general citizens react to nullifying the exemption of “law enforcement”? I am fairly sure that they’ll all raise hell about nobody being able to protect them at all.


24 posted on 12/16/2011 3:02:14 PM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: OneWingedShark

Ah, no, I mean exemptions for owning and purchasing firearms. Carry is a whole different matter. Basically, we cannot allow the Government to purchase and possess what the citizens are banned from owning and purchasing. Any bans that apply to the citizenry must apply to the Government and all LE as well.


25 posted on 12/16/2011 3:12:43 PM PST by BCR #226 (02/07 SOT www.extremefirepower.com...The BS stops when the hammer drops.)
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To: BCR #226

>Ah, no, I mean exemptions for owning and purchasing firearms. Carry is a whole different matter.

Ah, I see.
I took you to mean all exceptions.

I would be perfectly a-ok with both the owning/purchasing & carry exceptions being stripped from the police.

>Basically, we cannot allow the Government to purchase and possess what the citizens are banned from owning and purchasing. Any bans that apply to the citizenry must apply to the Government and all LE as well.

Utter agreement here.


26 posted on 12/16/2011 3:21:21 PM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: jazusamo; Travis McGee; Joe Brower; wardaddy; Eaker; El Gato; Jeff Head; SunkenCiv; Billthedrill; ..
Law enforcement was not 'in the dark' when individuals purchased Fast and Furious weapons, they say. Rather, ATF agents received real-time -- and sometimes advanced -- notice from cooperating gun dealers when suspected straw buyers purchased weapons. Buyers frequently called in their order before showing up. Gun store owners would give the straw buyers a pick-up time specifically to give ATF agents plenty of time to set up their cameras and surveillance teams.

In one email, Burke called the gun stores 'evil' and ATF brass in Washington also cooperated for a story in The Washington Post in December 2009 suggesting border-state gun stores were responsible for Mexico's cartel violence.

Internally, ATF officials admit cooperating gun stores like Lone Wolf in Phoenix -- singled out in the Post story -- actually helped the operation, dutifully faxing the names, addresses and serial numbers of the guns that the straws bought, often the same day. Lone Wolf also allowed the ATF to install cameras inside the store, giving ATF officials coast to coast real-time information about purchases and purchasers.

Holder's critics say he is setting their argument for them. According to the facts in the case, 93 multiple handgun purchases were made by Fast and Furious suspects, averaging nearly five handguns per purchase. These were already required to be reported under existing regulations.

So BATFE agents were already being notified, and they wanted the drug cartels to have another thousand or so long guns! And this was so idiotically stupid that Brian Terry had to be murdered before it was stopped? Lanny Breuer admitted to knowing about it, and Breuer did nothing to stop it. I'm not a lawyer, but why can't Arizona bring Breuer up on charges of negligent homicide or some sort of accessory? Breuer needs to be made to talk. He needs to be placed in protective custody ASAP.

27 posted on 12/18/2011 2:40:16 PM PST by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: neverdem

28 posted on 12/18/2011 2:47:36 PM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks neverdem.


29 posted on 12/18/2011 5:35:09 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Merry Christmas, Happy New Year! May 2013 be even Happier!)
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