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Salvation Army marching toward abortion support?
WND ^ | 12/17/2011 | Anita Crane

Posted on 12/19/2011 1:34:47 PM PST by surroundedbyblue

This is the season of the year when Salvation Army volunteers are on the streets and outside stores ringing their bells to encourage donors to fill their red kettles with money for the poor. The longtime Christian organization provides food, shelter, elderly services, disaster relief, prisoner rehabilitation and many other forms of aid.

But it also has adopted a position statement that is a step toward abortion, and pro-life leaders are expressing alarm at what they see developing.

In its statement on abortion, the Salvation Army says: "A number of biblical and theological principles underpin The Salvation Army's position on abortion. …

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: abortion; charity; christians; moralabsolutes; prolife; salvationarmy
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To: All; Admin Moderator; Jim Robinson; John Robinson; wideawake
Now that things have cooled down somewhat I want to apologize to everyone for taking the thread in the direction it went. That was not my intention. I also apologize to Jewish FReepers for trying to describe the Halakhic position on abortion when I am not knowledgeable enough to do so.

My original point was this: it's possible that the Salvation Army is going liberal, but it's also possible that the Salvation Army's position is in line with Halakhah. I don't know which. If the former, I am disgusted to hear it. If the latter, then well and good.

Different religions have different moral beliefs on various issues. Catholicism forbids divorce for any and all reasons (as I understand it). Judaism permits it (it's in the Torah), as do Protestantism and even Eastern Orthodoxy (up to a point). Similarly, the Torah permits (though it neither requires nor encourages) more than one wife at a time for a husband. Similarly the Torah (an ancient document) has laws that regulate slavery, concubinage, and even wars of extermination (these are also right there in the Biblical text). If one believes the Torah is either a mere human document (G-d forbid!) or of temporary duration (G-d forbid!) one can jettison these laws. If one, like myself, believes the Torah was actually written by G-d Himself and is eternal, then one does not have the option of saying "oh well, that was then; this is now." To believe the Torah is G-d's Ultimate Revelation is to believe these laws are eternally in force even when the circumstances they were originally given in no longer exist.

Judaism is not a pro-abortion religion; it celebrates life and fertility. But the authentic Jewish position on abortion is simply not the same as that of Catholicism. I am not responsible for this; I merely state the fact. There is absolutely no connection between the abortionism of liberal Jews and the genuine Halakhic position on abortion. Nor is the Halakhic position an elastic hole that one can drive a Mac truck through. It is in fact extremely restrictive. However, it is forbidden to add to the Torah or to subtract from it. The Halakhah is what it is, and though it agrees for the most part with the Catholic position it is not 100% identical to it. There is nothing hateful in merely stating this.

One poster pointed out that according to the Biblical text one who kills a pregnant woman is liable to the death penalty while one who causes a miscarriage is subject to a fine. This is the Biblical text. I did not write it. I have no say on how it is interpreted. It simply is what it is.

There is one and only one source of all morality: G-d. Apart from G-d nothing is right and nothing is wrong. To take a position apart from Divine legislation is to adopt a secular rationale. There is no secular rationale whatsoever for law, morality, ethics, or even why we are here. What G-d says is right is right; what G-d says is wrong is wrong. When G-d forbids one to kill one may not kill; when G-d commands one to kill one may not refrain from killing. No one can be more moral than G-d. The whole idea that G-d is a big meanie and that we are now more morally refined than His laws is the very source of liberalism (and Communism, and Randianism, and every other non-Theistic moral/ethical system).

I apologize to all who were offended or misrepresented by what I said. As I pointed out many times, I described things to the best of my limited knowledge.

Along the way I got the impression that I might be banned from this forum. I don't want to be banned from this forum and will endeavor to abide by all its rules. But I cannot change my religious beliefs or my understanding of G-d's Laws because of an Internet forum or even because of eighteenth century deists like Thomas Jefferson. My religious beliefs are very "primitive" by modern standards (even conservative ones). As I have admitted in the past I am a Theocrat and a Theonomist. I believe in a form of government that we will have in the future when Mashiach HaMelekh arrives and all mankind lives under his rule in accordance with the Laws of G-d and all false religions and false "gxds" are no more. My beliefs make me a guest on this forum and I acknowledge this and thank the Robinsons for putting up with me. It is their right to ban me (or anyone else) at any time and for any reason they choose. I will therefore endeavor to never again attempt to post what I understand to be the differences between the Catholic and authentic Jewish positions on abortion. But the differences do exist; I did not create them; and there is nothing I can do to make them go away.

I thank all FReepers for putting up with me. I know it isn't easy or fun.

My best to all FReepers at this festive season, and my prayers to G-d for our country at this crucial election cycle.

G-d help us all.

151 posted on 12/21/2011 4:24:49 PM PST by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu.)
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To: madmaximus; All

You’re welcome. The website lists many charities with an explanation of which are pro-life, and which are NOT. Please tell your friends about the website.

My husband called the SA today to tell them his feelings.

152 posted on 12/21/2011 4:44:03 PM PST by Sun (Pray that God sends us good leaders. Please say a prayer now.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

Before I became Catholic, I truly did not understand the pro-life arguments.

It was like why is abortion the most important thing? I understand now.

The right to life. It is a gift from God and we have no right to interfere.

I appreciate your honesty. You come from a whole different place but, it is not a liberal ‘kill the babies’ position.

Unlike so many Catholics in political life (who support pro-choice, otherwise know as pro-abortion) they will answer for their sins.

153 posted on 12/21/2011 7:36:23 PM PST by Not gonna take it anymore (Member of the First Church of Christ, I am Catholic)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

I came to this discussion late, and it may not be my place to say this, but I think you’re a stand up guy. Just thought I’d let you know that.

154 posted on 12/21/2011 10:35:06 PM PST by csense
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To: Hot Tabasco

If abortion is not a function of the Salvation Army, then why weigh in on the issue at all?

Oh, and if you have no problem with abortion when a result of rape or incest, you are not pro-life. It is an INNOCENT child! The rapist cannot even receive the death penalty in this country, yet you’re ok with the innocent child receiving it?

Please do me a favor and take a look at the following web-site:

Rebecca Kiessling was conceived in rape. What a shame had she been aborted, yet she was protected in law (born in 1969).

155 posted on 12/22/2011 4:25:22 AM PST by Catholic Iowan
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To: madmaximus

Other sources have been provided, including directly from the Salvation Army’s website. Are their own words unreliable to you, also?

156 posted on 12/22/2011 4:27:11 AM PST by Catholic Iowan
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To: Hot Tabasco

Funny you should bring up the Red Cross.

And as for defunding the Salvation Army and putting them out of business, if they want to find abortion acceptable in some circumstances, then yeah, put them out of business. I’d donate to St. Vincent de Paul. The SA is not the only organization that helps those less fortunate.

157 posted on 12/22/2011 4:33:12 AM PST by Catholic Iowan
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To: Hot Tabasco

Fair enough. I won’t support them either. But, from your posts, it doesn’t seem support for abortion or things that would further abortion, i.e., Obamacare, bother you all that much.

158 posted on 12/22/2011 4:39:15 AM PST by Catholic Iowan
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To: Zionist Conspirator
I merely state facts.

You state your own opinions. I also think it is extremely funny that someone who worships Jews but doesn't think he is good enough to be one thinks he can lecture others on what they are supposed to "think" about their own faith. You should concern yourself with your own pagan beliefs.

159 posted on 12/22/2011 5:07:37 AM PST by Hacksaw (I don't hate Mormons. Is that okay?)
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To: Catholic Iowan

Se my more previous posts on this thread. I just stated I will not support SA anymore.

Thanks for putting words in my mouth/s

160 posted on 12/22/2011 8:36:41 AM PST by madmaximus (Anyone But Robamney.)
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To: Catholic Iowan

See my more previous posts on this thread. I just stated I will not support SA anymore.

Thanks for putting words in my mouth/s

161 posted on 12/22/2011 8:37:14 AM PST by madmaximus (Anyone But Robamney.)
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To: madmaximus

I apologize, as there was no intent to put words in your mouth. My post was in response to your comment of looking for other sources rather than WND. That’s certainly understandable, given some of what they have put out there.

I hadn’t gotten in on the start of the thread and was responding to posts as I was reading through the thread and hadn’t gotten as far as your post stating you would not be supporting SA any longer. Again, my apologies, and am glad the ALL website was helpful.

Merry Christmas to you and yours.

162 posted on 12/22/2011 10:14:47 PM PST by Catholic Iowan
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To: Catholic Iowan

Apology accepted. Merry Christmas to you and yours!! And a happy, healthy and prosperous New Year!!

163 posted on 12/23/2011 7:09:34 AM PST by madmaximus (Anyone But Robamney.)
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