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Salvation Army marching toward abortion support?
WND ^ | 12/17/2011 | Anita Crane

Posted on 12/19/2011 1:34:47 PM PST by surroundedbyblue

This is the season of the year when Salvation Army volunteers are on the streets and outside stores ringing their bells to encourage donors to fill their red kettles with money for the poor. The longtime Christian organization provides food, shelter, elderly services, disaster relief, prisoner rehabilitation and many other forms of aid.

But it also has adopted a position statement that is a step toward abortion, and pro-life leaders are expressing alarm at what they see developing.

In its statement on abortion, the Salvation Army says: "A number of biblical and theological principles underpin The Salvation Army's position on abortion. …

(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: abortion; charity; christians; moralabsolutes; prolife; salvationarmy
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No red kettles for me.....I'll give to St Vincent dePaul.
1 posted on 12/19/2011 1:34:56 PM PST by surroundedbyblue
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To: surroundedbyblue

WorldNutDaily stirring up trouble for the sake of sensationalism...


2 posted on 12/19/2011 1:39:52 PM PST by madmaximus (Anyone But Robamney.)
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To: surroundedbyblue

“Foetal”? Is there a Salvation Army of the British Isles, separate from the SA here in the States? I can’t imagine any North American using that spelling in a statement, not even a Canadian.


3 posted on 12/19/2011 1:43:10 PM PST by grellis (I am Jill's overwhelming sense of disgust.)
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To: surroundedbyblue

This is the link to the Salvation Army’s statement on abortion. It is long a detailed.
http://www.salvationist.org/extranet_main.nsf/vw_sublinks/8A04FA3170AA86AB8025774500731612?openDocument


4 posted on 12/19/2011 1:46:14 PM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: madmaximus

http://www.fightpp.org/

http://www.prolifeblogs.com/articles/archives/2009/11/newly_identifie.php

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N26x3bbp_ZI

It’s not just World Net Daily. It’s pretty well documented on the internation SA website & their ties to Planned Parenthood.


5 posted on 12/19/2011 1:47:10 PM PST by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: surroundedbyblue

I concur with Alveda King:

Alveda King, director of African American Outreach at Priests for Life, expressed similar suspicion.

“Good organizations become ‘infiltrated’ by forces that promote abortion, the breakdown of marriage, sexual immorality, etc. They come as wolves in sheep’s clothing and appear to be harmless and even helpful. Then they begin to reveal their true or basically untrue colors. This is sadly maybe what is happening to the Salvation Army. Not for sure, but maybe.”

Read more: Salvation Army marching toward abortion support? http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=378413#ixzz1h1EdgKhG


6 posted on 12/19/2011 1:47:28 PM PST by Palladin (Santorum/Bachmann 2012.)
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To: grellis

The SA started over there.


7 posted on 12/19/2011 1:47:47 PM PST by pgkdan ("Make what Americans buy, Buy what Americans make, and sell it to the world" Perry 2012)
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To: madmaximus

I hope you are right about people just stirring up trouble. I have extreme respect for the Salvation Army for many reasons.

But I have to say that no religious conviction is required to oppose abortion, although all good people should oppose it.

It is mere science. Abortion kills a human being.

As I said to a friend of mine years ago if the Pope (or the Salvation Army, or any body else) came out tomorrow and said abortion is OK, I would still think it was wrong. And it would still BE wrong.


8 posted on 12/19/2011 1:49:01 PM PST by jocon307
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To: grellis

http://www1.salvationarmy.org/IHQ/www_ihq_isjc.nsf/vw-sublinks/FE3C992C78838853802577DF0071D796?openDocument

It’s their international social justice commision & I believe the president does speak the Queen’s English, so foetal would be his proper spelling.


9 posted on 12/19/2011 1:49:01 PM PST by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: svcw

Yes I know. I read it last week. This is the part that I find unacceptable:

“The Salvation Army recognizes tragic and perplexing circumstances that require difficult decisions regarding a pregnancy. Decisions should be made only after prayerful and thoughtful consideration, acknowledging the tremendous pressures that occur during an unexpected pregnancy. There is a responsibility on all involved to give the parents of the unborn child, particularly the woman, appropriate pastoral, medical and other counsel. The Salvation Army believes that termination can occur only when

Carrying the pregnancy further seriously threatens the life of the mother; or
Reliable diagnostic procedures have identified a foetal abnormality considered incompatible with survival for more than a very brief post natal period.
In addition, rape and incest are brutal acts of dominance violating women physically and emotionally. This situation represents a special case for the consideration of termination as the violation may be compounded by the continuation of the pregnancy.”

So basically, the SA is pro-choice. They have sugar-coated it a bit, but that’s the bottom line.


10 posted on 12/19/2011 1:52:06 PM PST by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: jocon307

Me too. I find it hard to believe, including their recent stance against homosexualism.

These two issues I will always stand strongly against,regardless of who comes out and supports it.


11 posted on 12/19/2011 1:53:54 PM PST by madmaximus (Anyone But Robamney.)
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To: jocon307; madmaximus

If you have doubts, I’d encourage you to examine the links provided & discern for yourself.

I won’t be supporting them, though


12 posted on 12/19/2011 1:56:16 PM PST by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: surroundedbyblue
Rather than get a lot of people who generally don't like going to WND all riled up, the least you could have done was post the statement from the Salvation Army......

Specifically, it says the Salvation Army "believes that termination [abortion] can occur only when carrying the pregnancy further seriously threatens the life of the mother; or reliable diagnostic procedures have identified a foetal abnormality considered incompatible with survival for more than a very brief post natal period."

Certainly doesn't sound like a blanket acceptance of abortion as you would lead us to believe.......

And as the next poster aptly posted, WND again stirring up crap........

I'm still waiting for the government to round me up, throw me into one of those unmarked white vans and take me to one of those hidden internment camps that Michael Rivero and WND warned us all about 20 years ago.........

FWIW, that was way before your time kid............

13 posted on 12/19/2011 1:57:06 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (Be good, Santa is coming)
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To: surroundedbyblue

Thanks for the confirmation. No more money for the Salvation Army.

The phrase saying that abortion is OK if the baby “threatens the health of the mother” is precisely the phrase that NARAL and Planned Parenthood came up with when they first pushed abortion on demand on an unsuspecting populace. It turns out that that includes the mother’s “mental health.” So, if the prospect of having a baby might make her feel bad, go ahead and abort it.

NARAL is a bit more open about it now, but I’m afraid that the Salvation Army is now on the same page with them.


14 posted on 12/19/2011 1:59:46 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Hot Tabasco; wagglebee; little jeremiah; narses

So you’re ok with abortion? Cuz that’s basically the argument that you’re making..

I’d suggest you read a bit more closely. The SA also allows for the rape/incest exception.

I understand WND can sensationalize, however this is supported by SA’s on position statement.


15 posted on 12/19/2011 2:00:54 PM PST by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: madmaximus
WorldNutDaily stirring up trouble for the sake of sensationalism

They ran out of black helicopters, fleets of white unmarked vans and internment camps.......

16 posted on 12/19/2011 2:03:55 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (Be good, Santa is coming)
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To: surroundedbyblue

I saw SA bell-ringers outside Macy’s in San Franciscos’ Union Square. I don’t recall seeing them there before, although I might be wrong. A Pro-choice stance might have had something to do with this.


17 posted on 12/19/2011 2:05:23 PM PST by Huskrrrr
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To: surroundedbyblue; pgkdan

I should have been more specific. Does the Salvation Army which operates in the United States adhere to rules and stand by statements issued from sources outside the US? Are funds raised in the US comingled with funds from the other nations’ SA organizations? I’d hate to have to write off SA, but bloodied money can’t be laundered.


18 posted on 12/19/2011 2:05:23 PM PST by grellis (I am Jill's overwhelming sense of disgust.)
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To: Huskrrrr

“I saw SA bell-ringers outside Macy’s in San Franciscos’ Union Square. I don’t recall seeing them there before, although I might be wrong. “

They have been there for decades, at least.


19 posted on 12/19/2011 2:12:24 PM PST by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: grellis

This is what we know:

The position statement of the SA as linked above

and

The links above that indicate the SA here in America gives to PP. There are some that have even found that SA shares offices in some locales with PP. Check the links I posted above.


20 posted on 12/19/2011 2:17:53 PM PST by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: surroundedbyblue

I would agree. However, I know people who hold these positions who consider themselves pro-life.
The abortions listed are about 1-2% of all abortions.
I can see no reason to kill the baby because the mother’s life is allegedly at stake. My understanding is most issues do not occur to effect the mother don’t occur until after 25 weeks, so why not deliver the baby and try to save them, rather than kill them.
As far as rape and incest, the baby is innocent of the crimes of the father, why should that be a death sentence for the child.


21 posted on 12/19/2011 2:18:31 PM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: Hot Tabasco

You haven’t answered my question

And here’s another question for you: what about the other sources linked that are not from WND?? Still think it’s just “stirring up crap”???


22 posted on 12/19/2011 2:19:35 PM PST by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: surroundedbyblue
The SA also allows for the rape/incest exception.

I have no problem either when abortion is a result of rape or incest...that's a non issue as far as I'm concerned.

With all that being said tho, the Salvation Army's primary mission is to aid and administer help to those in need, especially in times of catastrophic events. Abortion counceling is for the individual's family and/or clergy and not a primary, let alone secondary, function of the Salvation Army...........

As stated above, WND is stirring up crap where crap doesn't exist...........

23 posted on 12/19/2011 2:20:41 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (Be good, Santa is coming)
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To: svcw

I agree with you. But I would also add that those who hold those positions & still think of themselves as pro-life are delusional.

Killing a baby for any reason is not pro-life.


24 posted on 12/19/2011 2:20:56 PM PST by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: Hot Tabasco; wagglebee; little jeremiah

A non-issue??? So abortion is ok with you? For what other crimes of the father do you sentence the child to death?

You know this is a pro-life forum, correct??

I don’t care what SA’s “primary mission” is.....that isn’t a license to condone abortion.

And the crap does indeed exist. But, I wouldn’t expect you to see it, since YOU are part of the problem.


25 posted on 12/19/2011 2:23:37 PM PST by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: Hot Tabasco

There was also that “missle contrail” story they fabricated that was thoroughly debunked.

I never saw WND as a completely reliable source. I always take them with a heavy grain of salt, and look for other sources.


26 posted on 12/19/2011 2:24:32 PM PST by madmaximus (Anyone But Robamney.)
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To: surroundedbyblue

Babies that will not live long after birth should be killed why? how about old ladies and men who will not live much longer due to alcoholism, drug abuse, obesity, etc. Should we spare the country the additional cost of their healthcare by terminating theirs lives early?

I would agree to terminating the life of the person who committed these acts of rape and incest but I do not understand why an inncent baby should be put to death.

It appears that the Salvation Army is now just a fund raising organization and has gotten away from the salavation. I would think that salvation of the innocent and infirm what they were all about. Now, it appears that they are just another lefty organization. How sad.


27 posted on 12/19/2011 2:25:59 PM PST by dirtymac (Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country., Really! NOW!!!)
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To: surroundedbyblue

I oppose abortion under any circumstances, including rape, incest etc.

But I don’t see their statement as proof they contribute to PP, or support infanticide in any way.


28 posted on 12/19/2011 2:27:03 PM PST by madmaximus (Anyone But Robamney.)
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To: surroundedbyblue
what about the other sources linked that are not from WND?? Still think it’s just “stirring up crap”???

I could care less about the "other" links. The Salvation Army is what it is and has rendered aid and comfort to just as many people as the Red Cross..........

Here's a thought, how about the rest of this country taking your lead and defunding and terminating all contributions to the Salvation Army? In other words, LETS PUT THEM OUT OF BUSINESS!

Will that make you happy?

29 posted on 12/19/2011 2:27:21 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (Be good, Santa is coming)
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To: madmaximus

If you want proof that they support PP then check the other links. Also, do a FR search. This has been posted elsewhere


30 posted on 12/19/2011 2:31:18 PM PST by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: Hot Tabasco

How about this: how about people instead give money to a PTO-life charity that does not support or enable abortion in any way.


31 posted on 12/19/2011 2:32:41 PM PST by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: surroundedbyblue

Should say PRO life.


32 posted on 12/19/2011 2:34:00 PM PST by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: surroundedbyblue
Here's another blockbuster for you regarding the Red Cross:

The Red Cross says it is not involved with abortion. But in a number of cases, Red Cross societies have been involved as partners in programs that involve contraception.

Lets defund Red Cross too! Damn, lets just get rid of all these charitable organizations that have anything whatsoever to do with abortion, regardless of whether or not abortion is a primary concern of these foundations....

That should make you happy too, right?

33 posted on 12/19/2011 2:36:35 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (Be good, Santa is coming)
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To: surroundedbyblue

It makes no sense, given their strong pro-family anti-homosexist stance, that they would turn around and outright condone and support abortion.

Homosexualist Alinksy-style smear tactic, maybe?? Especially how the homos have been calling for a boycott on SA recently??


34 posted on 12/19/2011 2:42:46 PM PST by madmaximus (Anyone But Robamney.)
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To: Hot Tabasco

Let me articulate my position loud & clear for you:

I am not saying we should close down charities. I am saying these organizations have been less than forthcoming about how donations are being utilized. The Salvation Army has released a pro-choice statement regarding their stance on abortion. Also, there is evidence that some money donated to SA is then being shuffled over to PP. Private citizens have a right to decide who they donate their money to & therefor have a right to this information.

In light of the Salvation army’s willingness to support abortion, I will not be donating to them (or any other organization who has no problem with taking an innocent life). I would encourage other pro-life FReepers and conservatives to do the same.


35 posted on 12/19/2011 2:45:46 PM PST by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: madmaximus

Life Decisions international, a very pro-life org, has identifier the Salvatiin Army as a supporter of Planned Parenthood in 2009.

I linked their website above.


36 posted on 12/19/2011 2:51:01 PM PST by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: surroundedbyblue

Unscrupulous people are constantly trying to infiltrate and undermine good organizations. In the 1980’s, my home town’s Salvation Army got busted for selling property to “friends” at a highly reduced price. When I lived in upstate New York, the Syracuse Rescue Mission got conned by a “2 for 1” matching scam, which made off with hundreds of thousands of dollars. Child molesters try to infiltrate churches and schools. It’s the way of an evil world. Sociopaths are really good at presenting themselves as Light.


37 posted on 12/19/2011 2:59:51 PM PST by FlyVet
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To: surroundedbyblue

A few years ago, Salvation Army was prominent in a Super Bowl halftime show. Probably brought in a lot of money that did good for a lot of people, but “rock’n’roll dancing chicks in hot pants” ain’t exactly the best presentation for a Christian organization.


38 posted on 12/19/2011 3:08:57 PM PST by FlyVet
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To: surroundedbyblue
No red kettles for me.....I'll give to St Vincent dePaul.

Well, whadda ya know, it looks like St. Vincent isn't immune from that little thing called "abortion" either..........

Vincent de Paul Society Supporting Abortion-providing Health Care Plan

In all fairness to St. Vincent, their intent on the abortion topic is no more toxic or complicit than what you are attempting to lay on the Salvation Army........

If you wish to continue to condemn the Salvation Army then you must also use your same standard to condemn your own precious charity..........

39 posted on 12/19/2011 3:16:36 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (Be good, Santa is coming)
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To: Hot Tabasco

The Salvation Army website links to its position statement on abortion. While it’s not as pure as some might like, it’s very strongly pro-life.


40 posted on 12/19/2011 3:21:56 PM PST by Mr. Lucky
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To: Hot Tabasco

Disappointing for sure. I will be calling their office tomorrow.

However, I still don’t think that’s the same as an organization who is directly funding Planned Parenthood & espousing abortion for rape, incest, and the infamous “life of the mother” slippery slope


41 posted on 12/19/2011 3:31:24 PM PST by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: Mr. Lucky

I’m not sure how you can make such a comment “strongly pro-life”! They are ok’ing abortion for rape & incest. That is NOT pro-life.


42 posted on 12/19/2011 3:33:26 PM PST by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: Palladin

Because of this I believe their donations will suffer. I know they won’t get mine.


43 posted on 12/19/2011 3:36:40 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: surroundedbyblue
So basically, the SA is pro-choice. They have sugar-coated it a bit, but that’s the bottom line.

So basically, to you, Jesus didn't need to come at all. He might have sugar-coated the Ten Commandments a little bit, but they're still the bottom line. Fail, go to hell. What else does God need? The rest of that love and forgiveness stuff is just fuzzy liberal thinking.

Go get em', tiger.

44 posted on 12/19/2011 3:39:07 PM PST by Talisker (History will show the Illuminati won the ultimate Darwin Award.)
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To: Talisker

Huh???


45 posted on 12/19/2011 3:41:27 PM PST by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: Hot Tabasco; surroundedbyblue; Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham; DJ MacWoW; little jeremiah; Coleus; ...
I have no problem either when abortion is a result of rape or incest...that's a non issue as far as I'm concerned.

So, your philosophy is that it is perfectly acceptable to execute an INNOCENT BABY for the baby's father's crime even though it is unconstitutional to execute the father?

If your father rapes someone is it okay to execute you? And if not, why not?

46 posted on 12/19/2011 3:53:07 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
"If your father rapes someone is it okay to execute you? And if not, why not?"

That's gonna leave a mark...

47 posted on 12/19/2011 3:55:06 PM PST by GourmetDan (Eccl 10:2 - The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.)
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To: wagglebee
So, your philosophy is that it is perfectly acceptable to execute an INNOCENT BABY for the baby's father's crime even though it is unconstitutional to execute the father?

So your philosophy is that the RAPED WOMAN is merely a toaster that pops out a baby, with no rights, needs or even potential damage emotionally or mentally from the rape, that matters (and probably even physically as long as she technically survives) and certainly no right over deciding whether a baby can take over her body for nine months without her consent, or her life for decades after, without her consent.

BUT - lemme guess here - mothers, and motherhood itself, is of sacred value to you because of those non-physical intangible mental and emotional qualities of love and acceptance precisely because they are not imposed upon a mother like slavery, but offered voluntarily by the mother to the child out of sheer love.

Oh, and one more thing - nuance and conditions are bullshit when it comes to rape and pregancy, because murder is murder. But if you carry a gun and use it for self-defesne, then it's not murder because of nuance and conditions. Right?

I guess it's not hypocrisy if you can sleep at night. And, of course, there are drugs for that (prescription, of course, otherwise its a crime that should be punished to the full extent of the law).

48 posted on 12/19/2011 4:06:52 PM PST by Talisker (History will show the Illuminati won the ultimate Darwin Award.)
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To: Talisker

IBTZ.


49 posted on 12/19/2011 4:08:41 PM PST by madmaximus (Anyone But Robamney.)
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To: surroundedbyblue; All
I'm pretty sure what I'm about to say is going to be misunderstood. I ask the reader to please finish reading the post in its entirety before reacting.

The position on abortion of being "not at any time and not for any reason" is a specifically Roman Catholic position. In fact, at one time there was a popular prejudice among Protestants against having babies at Catholic hospitals because if it came to a choice of the baby or the mother, the hospital would save the baby and let the mother die.

Right and wrong are determined by Divine Law, not by secular moral instincts. According to this Divine Law the vast majority of abortions are forbidden, and many of these (though not all) are actually capital offenses. However, in a very few special instances (such as when a baby is a rodef, a "pursuer" who is about to kill the mother, and has not yet arrived at the point of "ensoulment") abortion is actually mandatory (after "ensoulment" abortion is forbidden even to save the mother's life and is murder). But either way, whether an abortion is forbidden or mandatory, is determined by Divine Law and not by human reasoning, sentiment, or instincts--and certainly not by anyone's "choice!"

I do not post this to defend abortion (G-d forbid!), but to remind everyone that secular morality--the determining of whether a thing is right or wrong based on anything other than G-d's Laws--is the very essence of the secularism and humanism that got us here to begin with.

Let G-d's holy laws determine right and wrong in all issues.

50 posted on 12/19/2011 4:08:56 PM PST by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu.)
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