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Errant Bullet Travels 1.5 Miles, Kills Amish Girl
WLWT ^ | 12:01 pm EST December 20, 2011 | WLWT

Posted on 12/20/2011 9:38:28 AM PST by TSgt

FREDERICKSBURG, Ohio -- An Ohio sheriff says a man cleaning his muzzle-loading rifle accidentally shot and killed a 15-year-old Amish girl driving a horse-drawn buggy more than a mile away.

Holmes County Sheriff Timothy Zimmerly said Tuesday that the accident occurred Thursday night when a man fired his loaded rifle to clean it. He says the victim, Rachel Yoder of Fredericksburg, was nearly 1.5 miles away when she was shot in the head.

No charges have been filed.

Yoder was shot while traveling to her home in adjacent Wayne County, between Columbus and Akron. She was riding alone after attending a Christmas party for employees, most under 18 years old, who work at an Amish produce farm.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: amish; banglist; bullet; crime; ohio; rachelyoder; shooting; yoder
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To: TYVets

My program does not allow inputiting the angle, only the range up to 3000 yd max which gives an angle of almost 21 degrees and terminal velocity of 375 fps.


151 posted on 12/20/2011 11:56:31 AM PST by Okieshooter
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To: Know et al

“There was a case about two or three years ago where two men were firing into a lake. The projectile skipped off the water and struck a young boy that was standing on the opposite side of the lake. The young boy was standing beside his grandfather holding his hand. He was killed instantly.

I never heard the outcome of the incident. I don’t recall where it happened either.”

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,292168,00.html


152 posted on 12/20/2011 12:02:21 PM PST by SVTCobra03 (You can never have enough friends, horsepower or ammunition.)
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To: TSgt

One of the most popular NRA events is the long distance black powder competition at 800, 900 and 1,000 yards. Very accurate shooting at those distances using .45-70s and 50-80s and some other rounds.

Another competition was so tough that they moved the targets out to 1238 yards. A woman won the competition.

Black powder rifles are very capable.


153 posted on 12/20/2011 12:06:51 PM PST by buffaloguy
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To: mamelukesabre

not someone a lot of people here don’t have a clue.it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than open one’s mouth and remove all doubt.


154 posted on 12/20/2011 12:07:06 PM PST by old gringo
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To: Tex-Con-Man

If he in fact was the person whose bullet hit the girl, I totally agree. This was negligent manslaughter.

I don’t understand why the gun was loaded in the first place. This type of gun isn’t all that stable if loaded for a period of time prior to being used is it?

I would store that gun empty.

Why he had to shoot the gun to clean it is just strange. Perhaps I’m not understanding something as a person who hasn’t owned or shot those guns before.


155 posted on 12/20/2011 12:12:01 PM PST by DoughtyOne (Why back in '88, Conservatives backed Gore in Texas. What Reagan revolution? What laegacy?)
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To: TSgt

The odds of this happening must be massive.

You’ve got the 360 degree horizon to match up to the point you’re having to hit something on the order of 0.00002% of a single degree.

As for elevation, the same type of dynamic comes into play.

Then you’ve got a non-rifling bore with the ball moving like a knuckle ball, varying winds on the trajectory, humidity, earth rotation, you’re wife’s current cycle... well okay that last one is iffy, but this was an unbelievable series of things that had to be just right for this guy to have hit that girl from 1.5 miles away with that sort of gun.


156 posted on 12/20/2011 12:19:15 PM PST by DoughtyOne (Why back in '88, Conservatives backed Gore in Texas. What Reagan revolution? What laegacy?)
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To: Tailback
If it was a sabot round, how do you ballistically fingerprint it? The rifling marks would be in the discarded sabot. You could match powder residue, but considering there’s probably very few brands of black powder, that may not mean much.

For a sabot round you would be correct, but even on the Damascus BPR's they would leave a pattern, but you would have to have identical wadding.

157 posted on 12/20/2011 12:19:31 PM PST by verga (We get what we tolerate and increase that which we reward)
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To: DoughtyOne

Normally a muzzle loader gun remains loaded for an entire hunting season, but the percussion cap is removed when it is not in use. At the end of the season the most practical way to unload it is to fire it so it my be cleaned and stored for next year.


158 posted on 12/20/2011 12:20:08 PM PST by Okieshooter
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To: DoughtyOne

“This type of gun isn’t all that stable if loaded for a period of time prior to being used is it?”

Black powder is quite stable. Black powder does not deteriorate over time at all.


159 posted on 12/20/2011 12:20:40 PM PST by buffaloguy
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Comment #160 Removed by Moderator

To: DoughtyOne

As always a bullet has got to go somewhere and there is Murphy’s law.


161 posted on 12/20/2011 12:23:05 PM PST by Okieshooter
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To: Okieshooter; buffaloguy

Thank you guys. I appreciate the correction and additional information.


162 posted on 12/20/2011 12:27:23 PM PST by DoughtyOne (Why back in '88, Conservatives backed Gore in Texas. What Reagan revolution? What laegacy?)
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To: Okieshooter

I think Murphy worked overtime here.


163 posted on 12/20/2011 12:29:00 PM PST by DoughtyOne (Why back in '88, Conservatives backed Gore in Texas. What Reagan revolution? What laegacy?)
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To: SVTCobra03

Thanks SVTC.., I didn’t have the exact details but the basics. Do you know the outcome of the incident. Was anyone charged?


164 posted on 12/20/2011 12:30:09 PM PST by Know et al (The most potent weapon in the hands of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed.)
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To: chris_bdba
not someone targeting a buggy like thy wondered at first.

I'm glad you corrected that. I just thought that perhaps your King James English needed some work.

165 posted on 12/20/2011 12:39:08 PM PST by Graybeard58 (No Obama, No Romney, No Paul, No Huntsman. We can do better than that!)
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To: Avalon Hussar

I recall seeing a show on a great Civil War shot, something like 1 mile, if so then perhaps a mile and a half is believable. Very sad, terrible story.


166 posted on 12/20/2011 12:40:09 PM PST by jpsb
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To: DoughtyOne

You’re welcome. I sort of had to chuckle because long distance shooting is very popular with the black powder crowd, much more so than with the modern powder guys.

I think I read the other day that in Wyoming there is an annual one mile shoot. I would love try it with my .45-70.

I will be shooting at 1,000 yards this year but I am spending a good deal of time making adjustments to the bullets I pour to make them nearly perfect for the specific rifle that I shoot. It takes a bit of time, lead and powder.


167 posted on 12/20/2011 12:50:13 PM PST by buffaloguy
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To: Retired COB

” ...not ever seen a buggy driven by one of their females ...”

Around here, half of the buggy drivers are women or girls. There’s a sub-category of buggy horses especially for women. Dawdy horses for Grandma and Grandpa, “women drivers” for women and girls, school hacks or school ponies for the little ones and the notorious “boy’s horse” for the thrill-seekers.

That said, what a tragedy for the family, and how can the shooter ever show his face in public again. What a disgrace.

My 10-year-old and 13-year-old use better sense with their BB guns.


168 posted on 12/20/2011 12:51:30 PM PST by Cloverfarm (This too shall pass ...)
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To: Tailback
If it was a sabot round, how do you ballistically fingerprint it? The rifling marks would be in the discarded sabot.

Yep. In this case we know where the shooter was and what direction the weapon was pointed.

Look down range from the point of origin, it will be within a dozen or so yards of the muzzle, and within maybe 10-15° of the aim direction.

You could match powder residue, but considering there’s probably very few brands of black powder, that may not mean much.

Yes, but our betters require microtaggents in black powder.

This provides the ability to trace to a single batch of powder.

169 posted on 12/20/2011 1:00:40 PM PST by null and void (Day 1064 of America's ObamaVacation from reality [Heroes aren't made, Frank, they're cornered...])
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To: redgolum
If it was a sabot round, it won't be that easy. The grooves from the rifling will be on the spent sabot, not the bullet.

See post #169

170 posted on 12/20/2011 1:04:14 PM PST by null and void (Day 1064 of America's ObamaVacation from reality [Heroes aren't made, Frank, they're cornered...])
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To: DoughtyOne

Before the cartridge era, circa 1870 or so, it was very common to discharge your muzzle loader in order to clean it. I even have comments that my great-grandfather wrote in his Civil War diary about firing his rifle so that it could be cleaned due to concerns of the powder getting damp in the barrel in humid conditions.

I have been shooting muzzle loaders for over 45 years, pistol, rifle, and shotgun, and firing my flintlock rifle into a dirt burm is the easiest, and safest, way to unload it.

You can leave a gun loaded with black powder for well over a 100 years and it will fire right off with no problem. Very stable powder.


171 posted on 12/20/2011 1:11:09 PM PST by Inyo-Mono (My greatest fear is that when I'm gone my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them)
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To: SVTCobra03; Know et al

“I never heard the outcome of the incident. I don’t recall where it happened either.”

I had to look.

http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2008/03/austin-haley-update.html

I can’t vouch for the veracity of the site.

I found the link here.

http://austinhaley.com/news.php


172 posted on 12/20/2011 1:17:37 PM PST by AZ .44 MAG (Repeal Obama)
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To: mamelukesabre
I’m surprised you didn’t mention fingerprints on the bullit, ya shyster.

I, on the other hand, am not the slightest bit surprised that you are unable to cite a single factoid to support your original statement.

I find that enlightening...

173 posted on 12/20/2011 1:22:02 PM PST by null and void (Day 1064 of America's ObamaVacation from reality [Heroes aren't made, Frank, they're cornered...])
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To: buffaloguy

I have also thought it would be a blast to shoot long range. I’ve seldom shot at things farther than fifty yards away.


174 posted on 12/20/2011 1:23:53 PM PST by DoughtyOne (Why back in '88, Conservatives backed Gore in Texas. What Reagan revolution? What laegacy?)
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To: buffaloguy

BTW: Good luck in your 1000 yard competition. Let me know how you do. I’m sure it will be months away.


175 posted on 12/20/2011 1:24:52 PM PST by DoughtyOne (Why back in '88, Conservatives backed Gore in Texas. What Reagan revolution? What laegacy?)
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To: Inyo-Mono

Thanks Inyo-Mono. It was nice to hear of your great-grandfather, and your knowledge and history with these guns. Excellent. 100 years? That’s really something.

Take care bud.


176 posted on 12/20/2011 1:29:23 PM PST by DoughtyOne (Why back in '88, Conservatives backed Gore in Texas. What Reagan revolution? What laegacy?)
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To: buffaloguy

We have a combined muzzle loader and bow deer hunting season here in Vermont, for a week after the regular rifle season ends. And I think there may be another one earlier. (I can’t check on that, because the Vermont Fish and Wildlife people scrub the earlier part of the hunting calendar after it’s past.)

Not nearly as many muzzle loader hunters around these parts, but there are a few.


177 posted on 12/20/2011 1:30:30 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: UriĀ’el-2012

So they would be patch marks not rifling marks.

Granted with a ball with little windage and a tight patch you could get an image of the rifling transfered to the ball but they would be depressions in the lead and not true rifling marks.


178 posted on 12/20/2011 1:41:52 PM PST by PeteB570 ( Islam is the sea in which the Terrorist Shark swims. The deeper the sea the larger the shark.)
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To: Inyo-Mono

A book on gun collecting that I picked up a few years back warns that any blackpowder arm newly found after many years (like in Grandpa’s attic) should always be regarded as loaded.


179 posted on 12/20/2011 1:46:38 PM PST by M1903A1 ("We shed all that is good and virtuous for that which is shoddy and sleazy... and call it progress")
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To: Stonewall Jackson

When I was a teen, we lived in a declining neighborhood. One day a bullet whizzed over my bed and went through a poster on my wall. The police said it could have come from anywhere in the hills and couldn’t [or wouldn’t] trace it. That incident was the last straw that convinced my parents that it was time to move.


180 posted on 12/20/2011 1:46:48 PM PST by KittyKares (.)
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To: AZ .44 MAG

Thank you, AZ .44M. That is a lot of information that I did not have. I read a lot of the article and comments but I can’t stand to read it all. It is so depressing. Thanks again.


181 posted on 12/20/2011 1:48:24 PM PST by Know et al (The most potent weapon in the hands of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed.)
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To: verga

“Someone needs to watch an episode or two of CSI”

Really bad call using any television show.

On a recent CSI:NY the woman was captured by a thug who punched her down, took her sidearm dropped the magazine and proceeded to taunt her by popping rounds out of the magazine and saying she couldn’t do a thing about it. She picks up the discarded pistol, says most accidents happen because people forget the round in the chamber, and gut-shoots the thug.

He picks up a knife and comes after her as she loads one of the rounds dropped on the floor during the popping rounds out of the magazine incident and stuffs a round in the chamber which is accessible because THE SLIDE IS LOCKED BACK.

Fail.


182 posted on 12/20/2011 1:51:56 PM PST by Peet (Cogito ergo dubito.)
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To: Know et al

It was over a non poisonous snake in a tree.

My wife has killed rattlesnakes with a shovel.

To shoot a bullet at a snake in a tree is highly irresponsible. Even if you hit the snake it won’t slow the bullet down enough to matter.

The little boy was quite remarkable. It gets kind of hard to read though, they change to a blurry font in some parts of the page.


183 posted on 12/20/2011 2:03:05 PM PST by AZ .44 MAG (Repeal Obama)
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To: AZ .44 MAG

I know what you mean. I have a nephew that is close to the same age. I can’t imagine how devastating such an event would be.

My heart goes out the the young boys family.


184 posted on 12/20/2011 2:19:13 PM PST by Know et al (The most potent weapon in the hands of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed.)
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To: jagusafr
Jeez, when it’s your time, it’s your time

You are so correct. This is a perfect example. Shocking for the family and friends, but she was so very obviously finished with this particular experience. Poof. Done.

185 posted on 12/20/2011 2:19:55 PM PST by Auntie Mame (Fear not tomorrow. God is already there.)
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To: null and void

I get your point. Then you trace the credit card purchases at each store that recieved a shipment of that batch of powder.


186 posted on 12/20/2011 2:26:12 PM PST by Tailback
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To: JudgemAll

Sorry...I only made a B in College Physics :)


187 posted on 12/20/2011 2:29:14 PM PST by catfish1957 (Save a Pretzel for the Gas Jets!!!)
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To: Tailback

Yep. And if he blends powders, or there is residue from several batches previously used, they only need the names of people who bought inventory from ALL of the identified batches.

That can narrow it down pretty quickly.

Of course that doesn’t mean that won’t harass anyone who bought ANY of the batches in question....


188 posted on 12/20/2011 2:33:11 PM PST by null and void (Day 1064 of America's ObamaVacation from reality [Heroes aren't made, Frank, they're cornered...])
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To: TSgt

1.5 miles for a muzzle loader? That ain’t our great grandaddies’ muzzle loader for sure.


189 posted on 12/20/2011 2:35:16 PM PST by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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To: JudgemAll

How could you guys forget the Reynolds equation?


190 posted on 12/20/2011 2:36:59 PM PST by catfish1957 (Save a Pretzel for the Gas Jets!!!)
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To: null and void

Is the micro tags just in true black powder, or is it in things like Blackhorn also?


191 posted on 12/20/2011 2:49:30 PM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: redgolum
I do not "know" to any level of certainty what the legal limits of microtagging are.

Ask yourself this: Has any government ever failed to use all the technology it can get its hands on, through fair means or foul, to control or monitor its subjects?

192 posted on 12/20/2011 3:01:19 PM PST by null and void (Day 1064 of America's ObamaVacation from reality [Heroes aren't made, Frank, they're cornered...])
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To: KittyKares

Two years ago I had to have some repairs done to my truck after someone shot it with an arrow. The broadhead (it happened during deer season) penetrated the left rear corner panel just above the fuel tank and did about $1200 worth of damage. As near as I can figure, someone was hunting in the soybean farm up the street and shot at a deer that was on or near the rise of the hill at the front of the farm.


193 posted on 12/20/2011 3:07:41 PM PST by Stonewall Jackson (Democrats: "You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.")
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To: Stonewall Jackson
I would have been tempted to leave the damned thing in situ as a conversation piece...
194 posted on 12/20/2011 3:17:49 PM PST by null and void (Day 1064 of America's ObamaVacation from reality [Heroes aren't made, Frank, they're cornered...])
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To: TSgt

Judging by many of the comments here,the perfect world they wish for will likely remove the word “accident” from the English language.........


195 posted on 12/20/2011 3:41:00 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (Be good, Santa is coming)
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To: albionin
Here's a screen shot of the Google Earth view of the approximate site where the fatal injury occurred. The intersection was named in a news video.


196 posted on 12/20/2011 4:00:06 PM PST by dr_lew
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To: DoughtyOne

Long distance shooting is fascinating. It can be rather technical and it is a lot of fun. Fortunately we have a 1,000 yard range close to Houston and I am really looking forward to spending a couple days per month throwing big lead downrange.

Should be an absolute blast.


197 posted on 12/20/2011 4:10:44 PM PST by buffaloguy
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To: DoughtyOne

It is months away. I have to replace my current sights with long range sights and maybe a new front sight with a bubble level to keep me from canting the rifle.

I talked to Lee Shaver and he will put a new set of sights on for me, so I just need to get on the stick, get the bullet to run right in the barrel and I will be all set.

Can’t wait.
I’ll give a report when I go for it.


198 posted on 12/20/2011 4:14:23 PM PST by buffaloguy
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To: DoughtyOne

You learn to shoot when your not breathing and between your heart beats.

It is really fascinating.


199 posted on 12/20/2011 4:16:08 PM PST by buffaloguy
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To: DoughtyOne

One of the cooler things about black powder long distance shooting is that it is done with peep sights not scopes. Scopes would be cheating.......


200 posted on 12/20/2011 4:18:41 PM PST by buffaloguy
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