Skip to comments.‘Fast and Furious’ Linked to Immunity Deal Between U.S. and Sinaloa Cartel, Trafficking Defendant...
Posted on 12/29/2011 11:17:13 PM PST by neverdem
Fast and Furious Linked to Immunity Deal Between U.S. and Sinaloa Cartel, Trafficking Defendant Alleges in Court Papers
A Mexican drug trafficker awaiting trial in a Chicago federal court claims that the notorious Sinaloa cartel received weapons from "Operation Fast and Furious" under an alleged immunity agreement that the U.S. government made with cartel leaders, in exchange for information on rival gangs.
The defendant in a trafficking case before the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Illinois, Vicente Jesus Zambada-Niebla, also claims the immunity deal allowed the criminal cartel to "continue to smuggle tons of illicit drugs" into the United States.
He wants the U.S. government to provide documents relating to the botched gun running sting operation along the southwest border, arguing that it would benefit his defense.
Operation Fast and Furious, which began in September 2009, saw the Phoenix office of the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives supervise the sale of guns to straw purchasers with the intent of tracing the guns to Mexican drug trafficking organizations and prosecuting their members. The ATF allowed about 2,000 guns to be sold in this manner.
The operation came under congressional scrutiny after it was linked to the December 2010 murder of U.S. Border Patrol agent Brian Terry at the hands of Mexican bandits.
An investigative report, spearheaded by Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) and Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), found that most of the weapons provided to Mexican criminals under the operation were going to the Sinaloa cartel, arguably one of the world's largest drug trafficking organizations.
In a court pleading filed last July, Zambada-Niebla made the claims about an immunity deal.
"Mr. Zambada-Niebla believes that the documentation that he requests will confirm that the weapons received by Sinaloa Cartel members and its leaders in Operation 'Fast & Furious' were provided under the agreement entered into between the United States government and [a Mexican lawyer] on behalf of the Sinaloa Cartel that is the subject of his defense...," it said.
"Mr. Zambada-Niebla believes that the documentation will also provide evidence showing that the United States government has a policy and pattern of providing benefits, including immunity, to cartel leaders, including the Sinaloa Cartel and their members, who are willing to provide information against rival drug cartels."
The defendant argued that he is protected from federal prosecution for trafficking drugs into the U.S. between 2004 and 2009 under an alleged immunity deal struck between the U.S. government and Sinaloa leaders.
According to court documents, Zambada-Niebla claims that the immunity deal provided the cartel's leadership with "carte blanche to continue to smuggle tons of illicit drugs into Chicago and the rest of the United States" in exchange for information on rival drug cartels.
U.S. prosecutors deny the existence of such an immunity deal between the U.S. government and the cartel.
Nevertheless, the U.S. government last September filed a motion to invoke the Classified Information Procedures Act, which is aimed at assuring that national security information stemming from criminal cases such as details associated with CIA operations are not leaked to the public during court proceedings.
In a court pleading filed in September, U.S. prosecutors claimed that Zambada-Niebla's allegations about Fast and Furious have no merit.
"Defendant requests all information in the possession of the U.S. government related to an ATF investigation referred to as 'Fast and Furious'..." it said. "Defendants request related to Fast and Furious... and other unrelated matters are gratuitous and wholly unrelated to any legitimate discovery issues in this case."
Zambada-Niebla, who was arrested in Mexico in March 2009 and extradited to the U.S. eleven months later, is accused of smuggling tons of cocaine and heroin into the U.S.
He claims he was working on behalf of the U.S. Department of Justice, Drug Enforcement Administration, FBI, and U.S. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement, court documents show.
The defendant's pleading highlighted a July 2011 letter sent by Issa and Grassley to Attorney General Eric Holder, "suggesting that multiple United States agencies were employing as informants members of Mexican drug organizations."
"The evidence seems to indicate that the Justice Department not only allowed criminals to smuggle weapons, but that tax payers' dollars in the form of informant payments, may have financed those engaging in such activities," the pleading added.
Certainly all POTUS since Bush 1, and most big wigs on both sides of the aisle are either bought off or blackmailed. There is simply no other way to explain the betrayal of US security and sovereignty, and the flagrant disregard for the will of the people, that has permeated our border and immigration policies, as well as the pathetic “War on Drugs.” Traitors all.
First, drug kingpins lie about everything and should not be trusted, even if their story sounds plausible.
Second, Sinaloa is competing with Los Zetas. If this was an effort to disrupt Los Zetas, it could fly back into our faces. You see, Los Zetas are linked to Hezballah and have been helping the islamists establish camps in Mexico.
If Obama/Holder come out in the weeks before the 2012 election with arrests of islamists in Mexico due to intelligence gathered by the Sinaloa cartel, they could look like heroes (despite 300+ dead in the US and Mexico)
We have been setup before on stories (the Michelle tapes), so lets keep our powder dry.
The List, Ping.
WTF are you talking about?
The known players are Obama's Justice Department (or as Eric Holder calls it, "The Department of 'Just Us'"), the ATF and the FBI.
Don't forget, Obama promised his friends that he was working on Gun Control "...under the radar..."
The list, Ping
Let me know if you would like to be on or off the ping list
“In the Bulger case, didn’t the FBI also let a bunch of men that they new were innocent be sent to prison for about 19 years?”
The sordid mess reads like a Hollywood script; and in fact provided the basis for the 2006 Oscar-winning film, The Departed. For victims of the Bulger-FBI cabal, however, the results were all-too real.
In fact, evidence that four men convicted of murder in Boston three decades earlier were in fact innocent, prompted a 2000 investigation by the House of Representatives. The inquiry was led by then-chairman of the Government Reform and Oversight Committee, Dan Burton (R-IN); I was vice-chairman of the committee.
The committees investigation delved into how the FBI could allow men it knew to be innocent, could spend 30 years in jail. During the hearings, a former FBI agent, H. Paul Rico, who knew the men were innocent but did not intervene because of his connections to those responsible, was offered the opportunity to apologize for his role in sending the innocent men to prison. Rico declined, and callously replied, What do you want, tears?
Rico subsequently was indicted for his part in the 1981 murder of Roger Wheeler, allegedly carried out at the direction of Bulger and other gang members in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Local investigators complained the FBI tried to prevent them from solving the crime because it was protecting the mobsters responsible.
Rico would die before ever standing trial; but in 2007 a federal judge ordered the government to pay more than $100 million in damages to the wrongly-convicted men, two of whom died while incarcerated.
John Connolly, another former FBI agent connected to the Winter Hill Gang, was convicted in 2002 for racketeering. Just six years later, Connolly was convicted of second-degree murder for his part in tipping off Bulger to a witness in the case being built against him. Bulger and his associates had the witness killed.
Government fined $101 million over convictions
Judge finds FBI withheld evidence of 4 mens innocence in 1965 murder trial
Upon second reading, the original arrest happened in March 2009, and extradition 11 months later (February 2010). So how would this guy know what was going on between the Depts of Just-Us, Homeland (in)Security, and the Los Zetas and Sinaloa cartels other than jail/prison rumors? What has this guy been doing for the last 20 months? Hmmm...
I was in FMC Rochester and I had been reading a book. I think it was called “None Dare Call It Treason” Lyndon LaRouche noticed it and went on to tell me that Bush 41 flew planeloads of cocaine for the CIA and that Noriega was the person who did more to eradicate drugs than anyone else.
Then I loaned him 25 cents for a bag of microwave popcorn and he still hasn’t paid me back. Twenty-plus years of prison vig that crazy bastard owes me.
I don’t miss the pen, but I sure miss talking to crazy LL.
A military stands-by and says nothing while its borders are infiltrated, why don’t you think about it for a while and get back to me. This administration is like the 3, 4 or 5 past administrations.
Was just talking to a Mexican American last night. He told me about visiting his home town down in deep central Mexico. Down past Mexico City. Apparently a cartel was moving into the town. So the Mayor or head local rival cartel leader, could not figure out which it was, basically gave guns to every citizen and told them they can shoot anyone threatening them. No questions. No jail time. They kept the new cartel out of the town. He also said, you would not believe the guns the people were given. Looks like Obama has turned Mexico into the ole Wild West. If only he was as generous with us.
More like they are trying to rob the US from within. Whether the US remains as a functional 57 state union or not, is probably immaterial to them. Putin called them parasites, and unfortunately, our leaders took that as a compliment.
Wow... It’s like Sons of Anarchy, but with a very devious plot twist, and with the Sons being replaced by gun shop owners who used by the ATF and other US Gov’t agencies.
Is our government CAPITULATING to the cartels (or one in particular) in order to appease them in some way? In order to settle a threat of violence? Could this be tied to La Raza and such? Where is McCain on this? Someone should ask him, point blank. After all, he is the one who (in mid-2007), said that, if we didn’t change our “immigration” policies and create a “path to citizenship” that there would be riots in the streets of California. Sounds like that was a threat they put out to me!
Is this the Democrats way of winning “hearts and minds” in the “La Raza”-supporting public, and the drug and human trafficking circles of the cartels? Did they actually SIT DOWN with these cartel leaders and make deals for weapons??? To what end? Did our ally Mexico KNOW we were meeting with THEIR enemies - the ones who were killing the Federales and their innocent citizens (and OURS)???
I’m aware, of course, that the cartels would LOVE for the citizens in the border states to be without lethal PROTECTION - especially states like Arizona. Obama and Co. are DEFINITELY attempting to shut down the one man in Arizona who is a pain in their side.
Those men, also charged in the Chicago case, remain fugitives. Guzman-Loera is considered one of the worlds top drug kingpins.
MORE BACKGROUND INFO
Joaquin Chapo ("shorty") Guzman-Loera, or most often called Joaquin Guzman
Local police and federal agents in Arizona said they recently have received at least two law enforcement alerts focused on Guzmans reported orders that his smugglers should use their weapons to defend their loads at all costs.
Guzman is believed to have delivered the message personally in early March, during a three-day gathering of his associates in Sonoita, a small Mexican town a few miles south of the Arizona border, according to confidential U.S. intelligence bulletins sent to several state and federal law enforcement officials, who discussed them on the condition of anonymity.
Joaquin "Shorty" Guzman, 53, is arguably the world's most infamous drug trafficker, and has extended his empire from Colombia to China since he broke out of prison in a laundry van on January 19, 2001.......
Forbes magazine estimates his wealth at $1 billion, and experts say his cartel moves up to two-thirds of drugs into the United States. "Guzman is number one because of the sheer volume of drugs he handles and the violence he has unleashed," said another U.S. anti-drug official.
Mexico knows it cannot stem insatiable U.S. demand for drugs, but the growing power of Guzman's cartel to corrupt officials, extort businesses and control parts of the country is a major concern as the oil-producing nation aims to convince investors it is an attractive market.
PACT WITH THE DEVIL? Amid the mayhem of severed heads and blood-stained streets, Guzman and his right-hand man Ismael Zambada have adeptly taken territory from gangs weakened by army operations while bringing in raw materials from China to make meth, using Africa as a route for cocaine into Europe, and growing their business in Colombia and across Central America.
"In the past five years, the Sinaloans have transformed themselves into a global criminal organization with operations in 52 countries," said Edgardo Buscaglia, a drug trade export at Mexico's private ITAM university, who compares the Sinaloa cartel's reach to the Russian mafia in the 1990s.
Joaquin 'Chapo' Guzman's wife, Emma Coronel, gave birth Aug. 15 to twin girls at Antelope Valley Hospital in Lancaster, according to birth records and a senior U.S. law enforcement official.
Turns out Coronel, a 22-year-old former beauty queen, holds U.S. citizenship, which entitles her to travel freely to the United States. By being born in California, and to a mother who is an American citizen, her little girls also have U.S. citizenship.
Guzman, 54, the multibillionaire fugitive head of the Sinaloa cartel, married Coronel the day she turned 18 in a lavish wedding in the highlands of central Mexico in 2007. She is believed to be his third or fourth wife and is a niece of Ignacio "Nacho" Coronel, a onetime partner of Guzman who was killed in a July 2010 shootout with the Mexican army.
U.S. federal agents allegedly cut a deal with the Sinaloa drug cartel that allowed it to traffic tons of narcotics across the border, in exchange for information about rival cartels, according to documents filed in federal court.
Remember this? The Mexican border is as secure as it has ever been. Or what about this; violence along the Mexican border is merely a mistaken perception because the Obama Administration has successfully fostered a secure and prosperous region. Napolitano also said that misinformation about safety is negatively impacting border communities and that the U.S.-Mexico border is not overrun or out of control.
The truth is that Mexican drug cartels do in fact control access to the U.S.-Mexico border and the smuggling routes across it, according to the Justice Departments drug assessment, which has been kept quiet by the administration. No press conferences or photo ops to promote this report, which concludes that the unprecedented levels of violence in Mexico will continue for years to come.
This is hardly shocking news. The National Drug Intelligence Center has for years determined that Mexican drug trafficking organizations represent the greatest crime threat to the United States. In fact, the agencys 2009 report says that the violence, intimidation, theft and financial crimes carried out by the illicit operations pose a significant threat to the nation as a whole.
Jean Baptiste Kingery seems to be yet another thug that took advantage of the Obama Administration's criminal stimulus package for the southwest, building grenades and IEDs for the Sinaloa cartel.
So what did the Department of Justice do when they caught him. They released him free as a bird within hours.
On Saturday, October 1, 2011, investigative journalist Bill Conroy of the Narcosphere reported scandalous and highly troubling new developments in the criminal case against accused Mexican narco-trafficker Jesus Vicente Zambada Niebla.
The breaking story unravels the U.S. governments ugly national-security interests in the drug war by exposing a quid pro quo deal between the US government and the most powerful international narco-trafficking organization on the planet- the Sinaloa Cartel, and the US governments recent attempt to cover this up by filing a motion in the case seeking to invoke the Classified Information Procedures Act (CIPA), a measure designed to assure national security information does not become public during court proceedings.
The evidence is mounting that the Fast and Furious gun giveaway was orchestrated and/or initiated from the top of the Obama administration. Forbes Magazine is calling it Obamas Watergate. Are we to believe that they gave away enough guns to equip a small army of narcoterrorists out of a simple error? We would have to be pretty gullible to believe that.
We have to ask just what they intended to achieve by doing this. It was a truly extravagant gift to the Sinaloa Federation Cartel. It was not just expensive in tax dollars; it was expensive in political capital, and it was so close to the 2012 election.
People dont give such expensive things away for nothing. The Obama people must have expected something in return.
Consider the fact that Eric Holder, the Attorney General, and the Obama Administration has a long and continuing pattern of giving gifts to the Sinaloa Cartel:
As we continue to watch the general uproar over the Operation Fast and Furious program, and specifically what Attorney General Holder knew and when he knew it, it needs to be noted that perjury is not the only apparent violation of law to have occurred.
I refer to the apparent violation of at least one (probably two) major U.S. laws by the Holder Justice Department. A few years ago, the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1701, the follow-on to the Trading with the Enemy Act) was expanded in order to criminalize any transactions between U.S. entities to include departments and agencies of the U.S. government and all foreign drug cartels.
I am familiar with these prohibitive statues because several years ago, while serving as the senior drug analyst for the Senate Intelligence Committee, I was tasked to initiate and became the principal drafter of legislation which became known as the Kingpin Act (21 U.S.C. §§ 1901-08).
The Kingpin Act is an extension of the highly successful IEEPA sanctioning program specifically targeting Colombian drug cartels. It expands sanctions authority against various drug cartel operations worldwide including Mexico which have been determined by the president [????] to be threats to the national security, foreign policy, or economy of the United States.
A violation of any of the IEEPA sanctioning programs or the Kingpin Act carries stiff penalties, both criminal and civil, and potentially totaling decades in prison and tens of millions of dollars in fines.
It is not necessary that an individual or governmental entity be shown to have knowingly violated any of these programs: it is illegal for any U.S. entity or individual to aid, abet, or materially assist or in the case of Operation Fast and Furious, to facilitate others to aid, abet, or materially assist designated drug traffickers. There are no exceptions within IEEPA programs for unlicensed U.S. law enforcement or intelligence agency operations.
The leaders of a powerful Mexican cartel, frustrated that U.S. law enforcement was interfering with their lucrative drug business, plotted a military-style attack on a U.S. or Mexican government building to "send the gringos a message," federal prosecutors allege in documents filed this week.
Leaders of the Sinaloa cartel sought dozens of American-made weapons for an attack in Mexico City on possible targets that included government buildings, an embassy or consulate or media outlet, according to documents in the case against Vicente Zambada, an alleged top lieutenant in the cartel.
Zambada is in jail in Chicago awaiting trial, one of dozens of defendants charged in the city as part of a sweeping international investigation. He has pleaded not guilty to charges that he conspired to import and sell large amounts of cocaine and heroin in the United States, including Chicago.
Authorities say his father, Ismael Zambada, runs the cartel along with Mexico's most wanted man, Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman. There's nothing in the documents to indicate the plot was carried out.
Vicente Zambada's lawyers claim he and other cartel leaders were granted immunity by U.S. agents and carte blanche to smuggle cocaine over the border in exchange for intelligence about rival cartels engaged in bloody turf wars in Mexico. Prosecutors have denied that such an agreement exists.
But deals with key players in...
During the conversation, the documents say, Guzman suggests they target a Mexican or American government building in Mexico City. Vicente Zambada then turns to Margarito Flores and tells him to find a U.S. soldier returning from overseas to give him 20-30 "big powerful weapons," specifying that they be American-made. During a later recorded phone conversation, prosecutors say, Vicente Zambada reiterates with Flores that the cartel will buy the weapons...
Your cautions are understood. I really, honestly, don’t believe that the President and his co-horts in the various agencies are all that interested in fighting against the Militant Islamic Hirabists. Unless Obama is somehow tied to the rival group of Islamic Radicals. This COULD have been an excuse to get some of the agency staff to go along with such an insane plan... but, I doubt that, too. If they were going to bust Hezbollah folks in Mexico that were operating within the cartels why wouldn’t Mexico know about it? Did our President go behind the Mexican Gov’t and People’s backs and make on of those wheeling and dealing agreements he seems so fond of? The reasoning doesn’t make it OK.
The road to hell (and socialism/Communism) is paved with mostly “good” intentions...
I don’t think Obama is tied to the Mob - honestly. They may have made deals with folks tied to the mob, but they are NOT friends with it. The groups they straddle are in Liberal and Gangland circles... A tangent through the Chicago Political Machine, but not IN the mob. (That wouldn’t make much sense to me... Obama doesn’t have tentacles in the right circles for that, IMHO.) He’s no “made man”.
It's his lawyer who is reading the same news we are reading.
Has anyone dug deeper into this (if there has been time) or will they now?
Seems like AZ, TX issues were all collateral damage for the real focus of getting drugs into Chicago?
I should add:
Who knows what deals have been made among various groups with political power - what other exchanges? I call to mind the radical change in structure to the CPD’s assignments and tactical methods in the worst neighborhoods via Rahm Emmanuel. It wouldn’t surprise me if these were neighborhoods that were controlled by various gangs that may be aligned with the Sinaloas (or not).
Except this skel places the time period between 2004-09. Placing it squarely in W’s administration. If true you can bet that fact will eclipse any of the F&F info about Holder and Obama. It would be better if this guy is proven a liar and just goes to prison.
“Its like Sons of Anarchy, but with a very devious plot twist...”
True. Unfortunately there is no Jack Bauer to save the day.
See the posts I just made. I’m coming at this from the view of having lived in Cook County (but outside the city) until I was 24 years old. Unless things have changed HUGELY within politics in the last decade I think it’s drugs, plus everything else. Control of the cities drug trade and distribution routes are “bonuses” and how corrupt agencies make these people rich. Wheeling and Dealing with various political and gang factions.
If anyone has looked into this it is US Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald. There were rumors among Hillary’s supporters and camp in Chicago that he had the goods on everyone from Blago all the way up to the President and incl. Pelosi, Reid, et. al. For some reason they basically stopped at taking care of Rezko, and Blagojevich - the “fall guys”. It’s not being pursued openly, but I think he and his office probably know the truth - even if they are being silenced, or simply can’t tack down the proof. I was thinking that the Clinton Machine may be trying to manuever to take down the lot of them in some way, but I don’t know if they will succeed. Many liberals do seem to be very tired of Obama...
I hope our candidates and RNC use the presidential campaign to educate the American people
Obamah & Eric Holder need to be impeached and charged criminally with racketeering.
Fast and Furious was nothing more than to link guns from dealers to bad guys and to clamp down on the second amendment. That is it!!! That is who they blamed early on..
Excellent advice...research to verify...it will surprise you.
One of his made men just walked into Chicago and became Mayor. Just like that. Definitely has ties to the control structure.
You might want to read through this thread...Didn’t keep it up most of the year as I was off the computer, but it will give you an idea of how it all works. IMO it’s more international than just Chicago. Note the country of origins of the names beginning with A
You would not believe how much control the various Conquistador Cartels have in Kalifornia. Almost getting to the point where you have to align with one for protection. That is probably what DC has done.
It appears this operation involves both the Bush and Obama administrations. Why our government would arm Mexican gangs is beyond me.
Wow and thank you! This will be first up on the 2012 TM thread as soon as I get it up there. Not only do we have the muslim brotherhood in the WH, we have the filthiest, most obscene North American drug cartel partnered with the muslims AND the WH to form a worldwide criminal organization right in front of our faces, using corrupt government officials in MANY countries to expedite their business.
This has been going on for years and we have known this for years. I have been posting about this for years right here and people thought I was crazy.
The only thing that has changed is that NOW the muslims and the latin cartels have become partners instead of rivals.
Peace talks in Afghanistan my a$$.
Iran used to be the muslim hub. Every drug that came through Asia and the Middle East passed through Iran. clinton made his move on Iran and used bin laden, al qaeda, and the taliban to control the drugs and empower the KLA to move them. Cut Iran out.
There is so much more to the story. So much. And the corruption stayed within the highest echelons of our government including bush.
obama is fingerfood in this. He does as he is told And that is ALL that he does. He gets all the perks he could ever want or need to just to show his face.
People wonder why Sarah Palin suddenly ‘decided’ not to run. THIS is why. And THIS is why the field we have is so damn rotten you can smell it in Europe.
This year’s TM is going to get very interesting.
Sheesh!!! Some alert soul finally responded to my post and saw a few connecting dots...beloved MM.
More than a few dots. I barely got started -— motive, opportunity, and an overarching crime.
Let me know when you have the thread posted. I retained the html and may be able to save you some time.
That’s true, and it is about time to start contacting our military about “restoring our Government to a earlier time”
Problems is, the Bush administration DID have a Fast and Furious type operation - but none of the guns got away and none of them were used to murder people. It is awfully hard to spin that...
With Bush the guns were tracked via gps devices and surveillance AND done in cooperation with the mexcian Government. Bush is Evil, Obama is Virtuous / sarc
Very nicely done.
Just immunity ... no ca$h??
What a rip off .. the terrorists should have held out for taxpayer dollar$!!
great information. I wonder how Sheriff joe could use this in the case against him by Holder & Co.
“*** So the Chicago Mob was trading guns to the Sinaloa Drug Cartel in trade for information the Chicago Mob could use ..... ***
Kindly refrain from impugning the integrity of ‘The Chicago Mob’.
The guns and drugs involved went to Mexican Street Gangs ‘prolly’, the Latin Kings and others like them across the city. ‘The Mob’ or as they’re also known, ‘The Outfit’, would never deal with scum like those involved in F&F.
It’s bad enough when they have to deal with the scummy Chicago Politicians. But fortunately they (The Mob) can go to confession and do penance for that.
Honest Frankie he meant no offense. Please don’t whack him and stick him in a car trunk out at O’Hare Airport. “
hahaha now THAT’s funny :))
Little Ray wrote:
Problems is, the Bush administration DID have a Fast and Furious type operation - but none of the guns got away and none of them were used to murder people. It is awfully hard to spin that...
I don't know if and when any in the Sinoloa cartel got immunity, but Operation Wide Receiver under GWB was reported as having used tracking devices for at most a few hundred firearms, and that the Mexican gov't was not kept in the dark. When they still lost track of the weapons, Wide Receiver was shut down.
In Fast & Furious, knowing already what happened in Wide Receiver, and without any way of tracking the weapons, they could only expect to recover the weapons at crime scenes.
As I said, it was on purpose. They never meant to track the guns.
And what would you suggest they do about it? The military has absolutely nothing to do with border security. If you want them to be border control agents you’d first have to change a few laws, including posse comitatus.
Tell me once more just exactly WHY we have a war on some drugs if it’s NOT merely a means of controlling We, the People????? Abolish that freaking war, jail EVERYBODY that works at DEA, ATF, FBI and most all the other alphabet agencies that have no place in a free society.
They still are. Just entice some details out of any one of them next chance you get. They’re 100 percent in favor of everything he does.
Back to the thread; check out # 63 , # 64 , # 80 .
Then # 26 , # 56 .
In fact, the entire second page has lots of information.
What can happen to change this? If every decent honest person is threatened and cannot fight?
The ATF isn’t the military,it is a mid-level(on the Totem) Federal agency that had dreams of making it to the big time.
Anyway this case isn’t going away.
imagine if this gangsters lawyer had connections to the Obama Justice Dept and put this Perp up to this defense in order to Wag the Dog and derail the Gun Control Conspiracy motive
G-d. Polar shift. A pandemic of sanity. I don’t know.
I would suggest the military replace some of these ‘wannabe’ agencies. Supposedly the US military can’t/won’t/is excluded from firing on US citizens so I would trust their guns would be aimed in the proper direction while patrolling the US border. I don’t think I would have to worry about the military coming to burn down my house to confiscate any guns or persecute me on religious grounds. Can always rely on the FBI and ATF for that.
The Coast Guard seems to be able to perform a decent job when interacting with citizens on the high seas and in ports, they are part of our military.
Border patrol is pretty much worthless, we could make their job redundant if people actually had to show cause to drive and work in the US by making them become citizens or pay a fee to use our services. If you have a car license you can vote, what’s up with that?
You probably think everything is just fine, go back to sleep.
Thanks for the ping.
It’s all interconnected: illegal aliens marching through our permeable southern border, the drug cartels controlling border access points, the Muslim Brotherhood, ATF, and lots and lots of money from drugs, money that can easily be laundered for many purposes.
#26 is important and I believe they’ll use it for a PR boost close to the election.
I absolutely did NOT say everything was fine. There will have to be changes in the law to engage the military. Whether that’s what the citizens of the country want remains to be seen. My son is home on leave and I was talking to him about this tonight. He doesn’t really think it’s a good idea either because he’s trained into blow stuff up and break things. And while they’re engaged in illegal activity some of those crossing the clandestinely crossing the border ARE citizens. For the most part our agencies are the reflection of those in the executive branch that run them. I agree the Coast Guard does an excellent job. My oldest son was a Coastie. However, they aren’t landlubbers. Border patrol could be better trained and there could be more of them. They could be given the same kind of autonomy as the military. It requires specialized training but when the president and his appointees aren’t interested in enforcing our laws it doesn’t matter who you have at the border. I’d love to see the laws currently on the books enforced...adding new laws or different people (military, FBI, etc.) to stand around the border and NOT enforce them (depending on admin policy)won’t make a bit of difference. The only way we can see what laws need to be tightened and/or changed is to start enforcing them.