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Should Gun Rights be Reciprocal Among States? Tenn. Women Arrested in NYC for Carrying Legal Gun
REASON ^ | 12/30/2011 | Nick Gillespie

Posted on 12/31/2011 6:57:03 AM PST by SeekAndFind

The New York Post (founded by Alexander Hamilton, but don't hold that against the current version) reports on the strange case of Meredith Graves, a 39-year-old medical student and nurse from Tennessee who was arrested for illegally carrying - and voluntarily surrendering - a gun at Manhattan's 9/11 Memorial. Graves is licensed to carry in Tennessee and was in New York for a job interview, reports the Post, when she and her husband visited the memorial. Upon seeing a sign saying no weapons allowed, says the Post, she realized she was carrying a .32 caliber pistol and inquired about how to declare it:

When she got to that section, she asked another cop, “We have this gun — can we check it in here? We [my husband and I] are not law-enforcement.”

That’s when she was arrested.

Graves, who has a full legal carry permit in Tennessee, was locked up on a weapons-possession charge and held on $2,000 bond that she posted yesterday. She is due in court on March 19.

She’ll soon find out exactly how serious New York City is about illegal guns. The Manhattan DA’s Office is pursuing a conviction on felony gun possession — carrying a minimum sentence of 3 1/2 years....

The Post quotes her mother making the case that gun rights should not be subject to state infringements:

“You’d think states would reciprocate with the Second Amendment. She has a license to carry in Tennessee,” said her mother-in-law, who lives in Manchester, NJ.

Bonus anonymous Volunteer State voice whose opinion of New York probably couldn't have gotten any lower anyhow:

“Everyone down there carries, and she just forgot,” said the woman, who would not give her name. “She was being honest, and this is the treatment they give innocent people.”

The Post notes that Mayor Mike Bloomberg has made a huge push against illegal guns in the city.

Whole story here.

So what do you think, kind readers? While I think most reasonable people would agree that prosecuting such a case is a monumental waste of law enforcement resources, what about the case for reciprocity in gun laws? Assuming New York's and the city's laws pass constitutional muster, isn't this just one more case of respecting local differences (ironically, that sort of federalist-localist claim is more typically associated with the South than New Yawk City)?

If every place in America is forced to be just like every other place when it comes all laws and regulation and taxes and collective bargaining and trans fat and this and that (including gay marriage, come to think of it), isn't that supposed to be a bad thing? Or should the standard for gun rights and many other things (free speech, religious liberty, not having to quarter soldiers, etc.) ultimately be set at the highest level possible? What do you think is the way to decide which rights get special protection and which ones don't?



TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: New York
KEYWORDS: banglist; gunrights
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1 posted on 12/31/2011 6:57:09 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

they found a suspicious white powder in her purse...it turned out not to be an illegal substance...

had it been salt, mayor Bloomers would have found a way to give her the death penalty.


2 posted on 12/31/2011 7:00:06 AM PST by Vaquero ("an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: SeekAndFind

Reciprocity with gun rights? Of course not. Reciprocity should only apply when it comes to things like gay marriage and medicinal marijuana.


3 posted on 12/31/2011 7:01:15 AM PST by Hoodat (Because they do not change, Therefore they do not fear God. -Psalm 55:19-)
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To: SeekAndFind

>>When she got to that section, she asked another cop, “We have this gun — can we check it in here? We [my husband and I] are not law-enforcement.”

If its concealed, keep it concealed. If they are searching bags or running you thorugh detectors, get out of line and walk away. Carry a knife too, so if anyone asks you why you got out of line tell them that you realized you have a pocket knife and you need to put in back in the car.

Asking a cop, “what do I do with my GUN?” is not a good idea.


4 posted on 12/31/2011 7:03:44 AM PST by Bryanw92 (The solution to fix Congress: Nuke em from orbit. It's the only way to be sure!)
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To: SeekAndFind

Yes, just like my drivers licence and marriage licence.


5 posted on 12/31/2011 7:04:37 AM PST by muddler (Chaos is coming..)
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To: SeekAndFind
Why would any conservative want to visit that liberal crap hole? The bastards have nothing but contempt for the rest of us as well as the constitution!
6 posted on 12/31/2011 7:06:56 AM PST by ontap
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To: SeekAndFind
"Should Gun Rights be Reciprocal Among States?"

Yes! But NYC's Sullivan Act dates to 1911. I'm not holding my breath that CCW for anyone except for celebrities and major Democrat party donors will be legal in NYC in my lifetime.

7 posted on 12/31/2011 7:07:32 AM PST by Sooth2222 ("Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But I repeat myself." M.Twain)
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To: SeekAndFind
Interstate commerce ~ she was there offering her labor for sale with an intent to return to Tennessee.

Totally separate part of the law governing this but it happened lebenteengazillion times a day here in the DC area when folks from Virginia would cross through a tab of DC on their way to Maryland across the Wilson Bridge.

NOBODY ever checked anybody for guns ~ legal or otherwise.

I think she gets off but she'll need to get it into a federal court.

BTW, part of the law that Hizhonnor hissef' used to get out from being prosecuted by VIRGINIA for illegal gun running and mayhem.

I still don't believe he's safe to land at IAD, but maybe he can come into another airport.

If McDonnell has any C.O.Jones left in his britches after being taken by Romney and Bolling he'll make sure to subject Bloomberg to the same treatment next time he shows up down here ~ front leaning rest, full body cavity search (with devices he won't like), and massive criminal charges.

8 posted on 12/31/2011 7:09:53 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: SeekAndFind
The problem I have with the National Reciprocity bill now winding it's way through Congress is very simple. A LOT of the Democrats support it. Here's the reason.

Based on Commerce laws, your Drivers License is accepted in every state in the Union, a good thing, but it allows Congress to set regulations on auto safety, road construction, and numerous other items that control ALL regulations for traffic in the states.

The same principle of Commerce laws is about to be applied to CCW across the 50 states. What that means to the Democrats who support this is new regulations in the future on 'safe' transport, SAFETY, ammunition, and even more restrictions under the table to limit not only your ability to defend yourself, but to carry what you want. There would be an 'approved' list of weapons that conform to some 'standard'. It would also include Some registration controls on vehicle operators who do own firearms, similar to the CDL regs.

IT IS NOT A GOOD THING FOR GUN-OWNERS.

9 posted on 12/31/2011 7:11:07 AM PST by Wizdum (Wisdom is what you gain when things go wrong.)
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To: SeekAndFind

This is why “states rights” is not always a great idea. Individual rights are far, far more important.


10 posted on 12/31/2011 7:11:58 AM PST by southern rock
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To: SeekAndFind
Tennessee Troopers start arresting New York travelers for every thing possible. Make Tennessee a living hell for New York visitors. When the New Yorkers start complaining to their Congressmen for the treatment they are receiving, they need to know that its because of New York's anal attitude toward other State's citizens. Keep New Yorkers in New York until that state can show respect for the others. I guarantee it will work. Other states that have reciprocity with Tennessee should follow suit.
11 posted on 12/31/2011 7:12:04 AM PST by vetvetdoug
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To: Sooth2222
In absolute terms the rights granted to US citizens supersede those of New York and it should be legal. Having said that, she should have known better.
12 posted on 12/31/2011 7:15:00 AM PST by OldEagle
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To: Wizdum
Acceptance of your automobile registration is a consequence of a whole lot of interstate agreements ~ Congress got involved several decades back to set a minimum font size and a standard shape so that automobile manufacturers could plan ahead.

Earlier you had tennessee plates shaped like tennessee.

Auto registration, license plates, driver's licenses, and a whole big bunch of things having nothing whatsoever to do with how well your vehicle produces emissions are regulated by an enormous mishmash of state laws and mutual agreements.

13 posted on 12/31/2011 7:19:49 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: SeekAndFind

I hate it happened to her, but one of the things you are supposed to do when you carry guns is to be aware of your environment. That includes avoiding communist-ruled areas like NYC. That being said, maybe this could be the first step in some lawsuits to destroy NYC’s gun laws.


14 posted on 12/31/2011 7:26:43 AM PST by GenXteacher (He that hath no stomach for this fight, let him depart!)
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To: ontap
Why would any conservative want to visit that liberal crap hole? The bastards have nothing but contempt for the rest of us as well as the constitution!

??????

Possibly because it was at the NYC 9/11 memorial...you may have heard of it, thousands killed...we fought 2 Wars because of it....

....and yes there are TRUE conservatives here in NY State...though maybe it is just 30%...that is a lot of conservatives considering the population numbers...(and I am not counting the 10% or so who think that Romney or Christie are conservatives either...)

15 posted on 12/31/2011 7:27:28 AM PST by Vaquero ("an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: SeekAndFind
Upon seeing a sign saying no weapons allowed, says the Post, she realized she was carrying a .32 caliber pistol and inquired about how to declare it:

_____________________________________________

She "realized" she was carrying a pistol!? What, she put on the pants and just found it in her pocket like a folded twenty?

Who here has ever been out and suddenly "realized" that he was carrying a sidearm? Anybody? Anybody? Bueller?

16 posted on 12/31/2011 7:29:01 AM PST by moose-matson (I keep it in my head)
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To: SeekAndFind
“You’d think states would reciprocate with the Second Amendment. She has a license to carry in Tennessee,” said her mother-in-law, who lives in Manchester, NJ.

The way I see it is my license to carry IS the Second Amendment.

Μολὼν λαβέ

17 posted on 12/31/2011 7:33:55 AM PST by cowboyway (Molon labe : Deo Vindice : "Rebellion is always an option!!"--Jim Robinson)
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To: SeekAndFind

The only rights mentioned in the Constitution are INALIENABLE rights! “Shall not be infringed” means exactly what it sounds like!


18 posted on 12/31/2011 7:36:10 AM PST by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: cowboyway

So, should the woman be set free? Or should see be put in jail for 3 1/2 years?

That is what concerns me....


19 posted on 12/31/2011 7:39:08 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: cowboyway

So, should the woman be set free? Or should she be put in jail for 3 1/2 years?

That is what concerns me....


20 posted on 12/31/2011 7:39:22 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: GenXteacher
That being said, maybe this could be the first step in some lawsuits to destroy NYC’s gun laws.

it is not going to happen in NY City...not in the foreseeable future (I have lived in the state all 62 years)...I grew up there...moved to the Burbs which are marginally better...

....I have a NYS concealed carry permit when I travel through NY city, I am suppose to unload, separate guns from ammo in separate locked containers and 10 minutes later when I make it through to the northern burbs I may retrieve my arm and reload and carry it again...

I wont say whether or not I actually obey the rule just to drive through the short distance or not....suffice it to say that they can make your life a living hell if caught.

the City of NY is not a believer in the Constitution and will NOT change because of federal law. they will tie it up in local courts FOREVER. and will use the States Rights that they say they hate to do just what they chose. just as Chicago and DC have not really listened to the Supremes...they nod their heads and keep on doing whatever they feel like doing..

21 posted on 12/31/2011 7:41:44 AM PST by Vaquero ("an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: SeekAndFind
So, should the woman be set free? Or should she be put in jail for 3 1/2 years? That is what concerns me....

She should have never been arrested. But I guess thats what happens when you travel behind the Iron Curtain.

22 posted on 12/31/2011 7:44:30 AM PST by cowboyway (Molon labe : Deo Vindice : "Rebellion is always an option!!"--Jim Robinson)
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To: Vaquero

Everything you wrote in the reply above is true.

Even NY state residents with concealed carry permits can’t carry in NYC.

The lady from Tennessee should have known better.

I hope she has a good lawyer.

Some Freepers from other states will disagree, but NYC is very much “a different country, a different world” from where they reside....


23 posted on 12/31/2011 7:45:55 AM PST by Road Glide
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To: SeekAndFind

This going to start real problem.

IF SHE WENT TO NYC VIA THE JERSEY TURNPIKE, BET YOUR BUTT THAT NJ’S DUDDLEY DOORIGHTS ARE LOOKING INTO FILING CHARGES AGAINST HER TOO.

After she does her 3 in NY, she’ll start her 5 in NJ.

Just sayin....


24 posted on 12/31/2011 7:46:00 AM PST by ConradofMontferrat (According to muzslimes, my handle is a hate crime.)
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To: OldEagle
In absolute terms the rights granted to US citizens supersede those of New York and it should be legal. Having said that, she should have known better.

I agree completely. I believe I should have the right to carry and defend myself in any state in the Union.

However, we both know that realistically and unfortunately that isn't the way it actually works. If I want to stay out of legal trouble, therefore, I have the responsibility to know what the laws are wherever I'm going. That information is readily available on the internet; anyone traveling would do well to access it and become familiar before traveling.

25 posted on 12/31/2011 7:49:02 AM PST by susannah59
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To: SeekAndFind

She should be free. She will do time.


26 posted on 12/31/2011 7:49:45 AM PST by PilotDave (No, really, you just can't make this stuff up!!!)
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To: OldEagle
"In absolute terms the rights granted to US citizens supersede those of New York and it should be legal."

I agree with "should" but about 1/3 of the US population lives in the indigo-blue states that restrict firearm ownership to a greater or lesser degree. The SC has ruled that states can restrict firearm ownership.

One big reason that the SC ruled District of Columbia v. Heller is that DC is not a state.

Still, it's hard to believe that CCW course in Tennessee wouldn't have mentioned anything about laws in other states. It was pretty dumb to bring a pistol into NYC and pretty naive to think that cops are your friends. She has my sympathy but she should have thought about it for a second or two.

I don't think NYC's Sullivan law is going to change unless NYC residents want it to change, and they haven't wanted it to change for the last 100 years.

27 posted on 12/31/2011 7:52:40 AM PST by Sooth2222 ("Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But I repeat myself." M.Twain)
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To: PilotDave

There already are legislators in NYC who are agitating for clemency. Long Time NYC Councilman Peter Vallone comes to mind.


28 posted on 12/31/2011 7:55:31 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: ConradofMontferrat

The State of Tennessee better help this law abiding citizen out. I don’t see any justice in this at all.


29 posted on 12/31/2011 7:57:09 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Not all cops are NYC cops.

I would have just gave her a quote from the Gandalf the Grey school of firearms: “Keep it safe, keep it secret.”


30 posted on 12/31/2011 7:57:14 AM PST by Molon Labbie (End the War On Drugs, Restore the Constitution.)
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To: moose-matson

“Who here has ever been out and suddenly “realized” that he was carrying a sidearm?”

It was a .32. There are some pretty lightweight .32’s on the market. She likely had it in a purse with a bunch of other stuff. They make purses with holster compartments that carry a gun properly. The weight of a light .32 would not be noticeable. So, “out of sight, out of mind” till something reminds you of it...like a mugger or a sign.


31 posted on 12/31/2011 7:57:14 AM PST by KrisKrinkle (Blessed be those who know the depth and breadth of their ignorance. Cursed be those who don't.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Gun permits sould be like Drivers licenses. They should have retroprocity between states.


32 posted on 12/31/2011 8:03:14 AM PST by Citizen Tom Paine (An old sailor sends)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER
The only rights mentioned in the Constitution are INALIENABLE rights!

The "...right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed..." is not an inalienable right.

“Shall not be infringed” means exactly what it sounds like!

Granted, but to understand that meaning you have to understand the meaning of "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms".

33 posted on 12/31/2011 8:07:13 AM PST by KrisKrinkle (Blessed be those who know the depth and breadth of their ignorance. Cursed be those who don't.)
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To: SeekAndFind

This woman was stupid. If you carry, you need to know the gun laws of the places you go. I make a booklet every year for my mother that summarizes the laws in the states she travels with her gun.

I have a CCW, and I travel a lot (with my mother). I would love to see reciprocity for all 50 states. As it is now, I have to adjust my travel itinerary to gun friendly states and that can be a bother. Hopefully this year I will get my FL out of state CCW which will add a few more states to the 28 my state reciprocates. Yes, I realize this is better than most, but it isn’t enough.


34 posted on 12/31/2011 8:08:01 AM PST by reaganaut (Mormonism is all about glory to self, not Glory to God. - which explains Mitt Romney)
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To: Citizen Tom Paine; SeekAndFind; KrisKrinkle; Sooth2222; PilotDave; susannah59; Road Glide; ...

The problem is that we have allowed the individual states to infringe on our 2nd amendment right. A drivers license is not right defined in the Constitution and is freely regulated by the several states. TENN does not have to recognize a NY drivers license.

No state, that I am aware of yet, denies my 1st amendment right or any other numerated right in the Constitution but the 2nd. Where is equal protection under the law your honor?


35 posted on 12/31/2011 8:19:58 AM PST by GregNH (One Pissed Off Natural Born Citizen OPONBC)
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To: vetvetdoug

New York drivers are already treated like that.
Bloomberg’s NYC regulations aren’t the same as Upstate, and nearly all of this large state is Upstate.


36 posted on 12/31/2011 8:20:31 AM PST by ntnychik
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To: GregNH

I would love to see this one at SCOTUS.


37 posted on 12/31/2011 8:21:07 AM PST by GregNH (One Pissed Off Natural Born Citizen OPONBC)
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To: SeekAndFind

It wasn’t legal in NYC, regardless of whether their law is just or not. She should, as a holder, ensure that wherever she takes the weapon, she is legal in doing so. Sorry, I feel sympathy for her, but this is her fault.


38 posted on 12/31/2011 8:21:33 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: susannah59
I believe I should have the right to carry and defend myself in any state in the Union.

I believe I have the right to carry and defend myself anywhere on the planet.

39 posted on 12/31/2011 8:24:48 AM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts (Some folks need an education...don't give up or we'll lose the Nation - Grand Funk Railroad)
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To: SeekAndFind
When Newt is President he should issue an Executive Order that all States will honor the 2nd and all States will honor legally issued permits from any State.
40 posted on 12/31/2011 8:28:04 AM PST by Logical me
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To: KrisKrinkle

Have you ever left your house, especially to travel to another city, and forgotten that you were carrying? I bet you never did. In fact, based on your silly “it’s so light” excuse, my bet is that you do not carry at all.


41 posted on 12/31/2011 8:28:50 AM PST by moose-matson (I keep it in my head)
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To: Wizdum

Good point I had not considered that.


42 posted on 12/31/2011 8:31:00 AM PST by reaganaut (Mormonism is all about glory to self, not Glory to God. - which explains Mitt Romney)
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To: moose-matson

Who here has ever been out and suddenly “realized” that he was carrying a sidearm?

- — -
No one. But that is also why I carry on my person and not in my purse or just leave it in the car (I know people who do). My gun is where I can control it at all times.


43 posted on 12/31/2011 8:41:18 AM PST by reaganaut (Mormonism is all about glory to self, not Glory to God. - which explains Mitt Romney)
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To: SeekAndFind
states hell... an UPSTATE NY CCW isn't valid in the Big Sh!ty
44 posted on 12/31/2011 8:42:09 AM PST by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: SeekAndFind

If you carry a weapon you have an obligation to be compliant. I always check guns laws for the relevant states, etc. when I’m traveling, it is just part of the drill. Your philosophy on gun ownership, the 2nd Ammendment, concealed carry, etc. doesn’t really enter into it unless you are trying to be Rosa Parks. Recognizing reality is just good common sense,


45 posted on 12/31/2011 8:43:53 AM PST by Bayan
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To: Road Glide

IIRC, Omaha NE is the same way. They have different rules than the rest of the state.


46 posted on 12/31/2011 8:44:12 AM PST by reaganaut (Mormonism is all about glory to self, not Glory to God. - which explains Mitt Romney)
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To: susannah59

I make my mother a booklet of laws for the states she travels so she has it as a handy reference.


47 posted on 12/31/2011 8:47:32 AM PST by reaganaut (Mormonism is all about glory to self, not Glory to God. - which explains Mitt Romney)
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To: reaganaut
I seriously doubt that this woman, traveling from TN to NYC, staying in a hotel, forgot for one second where her weapon was....if she did then she is too stupid or too irresponsible to carry one.

I carry. I train others. Rules 1, 2 & 3 ----- Safety, safety, safety. And that starts with always knowing where your weapon is and its status.

As for this story, imo, the woman was an idiot...the cop did his job...the ADA is reaching...the woman will plea out to a lesser charge...pay a fine...not get the job....never return to NYC.

48 posted on 12/31/2011 8:48:34 AM PST by moose-matson (I keep it in my head)
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To: Vaquero

I have a NYS Full Carry. I live in Westchester literally on the border of NYC.

I know full well never to cross that line when carrying. Everyone knows that NYS and LI are ok for the license, but NYC is no mans’ land even for permit holders.


49 posted on 12/31/2011 8:50:28 AM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: Sooth2222

Does TN have a CCW course? My state doesn’t. Of course, our high schools have shooting sports teams and everyone goes through hunter safety at 12.

All I had to do was go to the sheriff’s office, fill out a form, wait for it to come back (took 5 days) for the background and mental health check, and pay the fee (which you don’t pay if you don’t get one). Poof CCW.


50 posted on 12/31/2011 8:51:10 AM PST by reaganaut (Mormonism is all about glory to self, not Glory to God. - which explains Mitt Romney)
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