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ID now needed for drain cleaner
qonline.com ^ | January 3, 2012 | Anthony Watt

Posted on 01/04/2012 10:16:29 PM PST by MamaDearest

One of Illinois' new laws requires consumers to reach for their identification as well as their cash when they have a clogged drain.



The law that took effect Sunday requires a valid identification to buy products containing chemicals listed within the Federal Caustic Poison Act in concentrations that require the warning "causes severe burns" on the packaging. Targeted substances include hydrochloric and sulfuric acids.



Purchasers also must sign a log with their name and address.



"We're looking at Drano, Liquid-Plumr -- those are the big ones," Rep. Rich Morthland, R-Cordova, said.



The law was proposed after acid was used as a weapon to cause disfiguring injuries, according to the Illinois Senate Republicans' website. State Rep. Morthland said he heard committee testimony from victims of such attacks whose horrific injuries required multiple surgeries.



Rep. Morthland said among those testifying was Esperanza Medina, of Chicago, who had acid thrown in her face in 2008 and suffered burns over 25 percent of her body.



State Sen. Mike Jacobs, D-East Moline, and state Rep. Pat Verschoore, D-Milan, noted some chemicals on the list also can be used to make methamphetamine.



All three legislators said they did not like placing restrictions on residents or businesses, noting they believe most people use the products safely. They said they voted for the measure for the sake of public safety, either to minimize the potential of attacks or to make it harder for people to make meth.


 Rep. Morthland said that the measure also got his vote because state groups representing retail merchants and the chemical industry got behind it. There will be an adjustment period, Rep. Morthland said, but people should be able to get used to it.

"If people use these products in a proper way, they won't have any problems," said Sen. Jacobs, who added the business community helped create the law. If the law proves to be overly burdensome, it can be changed, the legislators said.



Initial versions of the law were quite restrictive -- encompassing just about anything in the plumbing and cleaning aisles -- but the scope was narrowed, said Brad Babcook, director of legislative affairs for the Chemical Industry Council of Illinois.

The final version applies to items such as industrial-strength clog removers with substantial concentrations of lye or cleaning products containing hydrochloric acid that can clean chimneys, pavements and sidewalks, he said.



Butch Trevor, owner of Trevor True Value Hardware in Moline, said he had to figure out which products he offers are included in the law. Research let him build a partial list, he said. But he said he still had to spend hours taking a census of his other items.



"From my perspective, it's been a nightmare," he said.



Failure to comply is a business offense under to the law with fines up to $150 for the first violation, $500 for the second and $1,500 for the third and any subsequent violations within 12 months.



Mr. Trevor said people wanting to misuse the substances likely still will find a way to circumvent safeguards. He said he has heard some grumbli>g from customers, but there is not much choice right now.

"If they need a drain cleaned, they are going to buy the product," he said.




The Associated Press contributed to this report.



What does the law cover?



-- Hydrochloric acid and any product with a free or chemically unneutralized version in a concentration of 10 percent or more.



-- Sulfuric acid and any product with a free or chemically unneutralized version in a concentration of 10 percent or more.



-- Nitric acid or any product with a free or chemically unneutralized version in a concentration of 5 percent or more.



-- Carbolic acid, also known as phenol, and any product with it in a concentration of 5 percent or more.



-- Oxalic acid and any product with a free or a chemically unneutralized version in a concentration of 10 percent or more.



-- Any salt of oxalic acid and any product with such salt in a concentration of 10 percent or more.



-- Acetic acid or any product with a free or chemically unneutralized version in a concentration of 20 percent or more.



-- Hypochlorous acid, either free or combined, and any product with the same in a concentration that will yield 10 percent or more by weight of available chlorine.



-- Potassium hydroxide and any product with a free or chemically unneutralized version, including caustic potash and vienna paste, in a concentration of 10 percent or more.



-- Sodium hydroxide and any product with a free or chemically unneutralized sodium hydroxide, including caustic soda and lye, in a concentration of 10 percent or more.



-- Silver nitrate, sometimes known as lunar caustic, and any product with silver nitrate in a concentration of 5 percent or more.



-- Ammonia water and any product with a free or chemically uncombined version, including ammonium hydroxide and “hartshorn,” in a concentration of 5 percent or more.



Source: U.S. Government Printing Office.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: draincleaner; id; illinois; wod; wosd
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1 posted on 01/04/2012 10:16:37 PM PST by MamaDearest
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To: MamaDearest

Please..please Dear God...stop trying to help us!


2 posted on 01/04/2012 10:17:56 PM PST by samadams2000 (Someone important make......The Call!)
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To: MamaDearest

How do they expect minorities and the poor to comply with this? I think Eric Holder should look into this.


3 posted on 01/04/2012 10:19:05 PM PST by fhayek
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To: fhayek

Absolutely!

And from what I heard tonight on tv (so it must be true)...College students.

The list just grows and grows!


4 posted on 01/04/2012 10:23:08 PM PST by berdie
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To: MamaDearest
California, Illinois, whatever...this is what the pols do, engage in petty things. It shows that they are "doing something", and it distracts from the fact they can't deal with real problems, like collapsing budgets.

Now one of the idiots on my city council has suggested we need to ban plastic grocery bags. Nonsense like that to distract from their money-wasting incompetence.

5 posted on 01/04/2012 10:23:13 PM PST by FlyVet
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To: fhayek

Absolutely!

And from what I heard tonight on tv (so it must be true)...College students.

The list just grows and grows!


6 posted on 01/04/2012 10:23:28 PM PST by berdie
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To: MamaDearest

Is there a waiting period? How about a background check?


7 posted on 01/04/2012 10:23:58 PM PST by An.American.Expatriate (Here's my strategy on the War against Terrorism: We win, they lose. - with apologies to R.R.)
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To: MamaDearest
Federal Caustic Poison Act in concentrations that require the warning "causes severe burns" on the packaging. Targeted substances include hydrochloric and sulfuric acids.

Wait... Caustic? or Acidic? Because I grew up being taught that bases were caustic.

/johnny

8 posted on 01/04/2012 10:24:46 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: MamaDearest

Bleach apparently escaped, and it’s not the nicest thing to get on your face or in your eyes either.

And what the heck is this supposed to do. OK police can prove one of these acid or alkali attackers actually bought some lye or whatever. Now what?

This is a nanny state joke to rival California and its carseats for eight year old children.


9 posted on 01/04/2012 10:25:12 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Sometimes progressives find their scripture in the penumbra of sacred bathroom stall writings (Tzar))
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To: fhayek

Holder’s People are exmpt ....


10 posted on 01/04/2012 10:25:36 PM PST by An.American.Expatriate (Here's my strategy on the War against Terrorism: We win, they lose. - with apologies to R.R.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

It’s for meth manufacturers.


11 posted on 01/04/2012 10:29:04 PM PST by txhurl (Perry/Pence 2012 OR Perry/Ryan 2012 or even better Perry/Abbott 2012!)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
And what the heck is this supposed to do.

Limit the amount you can purchase at any one time - AND - register what you've purchased over time. Put that in a DB and analyze - purchased a lot of Drano? Expect a visit from BATFE & A(nything else they can think of).

12 posted on 01/04/2012 10:30:05 PM PST by An.American.Expatriate (Here's my strategy on the War against Terrorism: We win, they lose. - with apologies to R.R.)
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To: fhayek
"How do they expect minorities and the poor to comply with this? I think Eric Holder should look into this."

Love it!

And God forbid those poor and unfortunate souls need cold medicine at the same time they clogged their drains ... they may/will be put on a watch list with the rest of us.

On second thought .. who am I kidding, if they are really are poor or just entitled, their drains are unplugged by the landlord man and they have the best medical insurance in the country ... all for free ... its only fair

13 posted on 01/04/2012 10:32:21 PM PST by voteNRA (A citizenry armed with rifles simply cannot be tyrannized)
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To: txhurl

So it makes no sense they’re parading these chemical attack victims around.

And we’ve already seen what happens. Folks really bent on meth chemistry will come around and pay premium prices to poor people for cans of lye, bottles of toilet cleaner (Sno-Bol and the like that are 20% muriatic acid) etc. They’ll gladly furnish it, and the log watching police are none the wiser.


14 posted on 01/04/2012 10:34:22 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Sometimes progressives find their scripture in the penumbra of sacred bathroom stall writings (Tzar))
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To: voteNRA

What’s more piteous, that a person got chemical attacked, or that such a person now thinks that putting people on lists will cut into these chemical attacks? At first only their eyes were blinded. Now their minds are.


15 posted on 01/04/2012 10:40:17 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Sometimes progressives find their scripture in the penumbra of sacred bathroom stall writings (Tzar))
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To: MamaDearest; samadams2000
ID now needed for drain cleaner...

Q: What ingredients are used to make meth?

A. Over-the-counter cold and asthma medications containing ephedrine or pseudoephedrine, red phosphorous, hydrochloric acid, drain cleaner, battery acid, lye, lantern fuel, and antifreeze are among the ingredients most commonly used. Hazards of Meth Ingredients Manufacturing of Methamphetamine

I was buying what was no more than a simple Vicks cold & flu tablet remedy, Nature Fusion; and had to give my age!!! Note many medicines on the shelf are now held behind the counter..all because of the manufacture of Meth etc..

Another designer drug on the rise is "bath salts".

16 posted on 01/04/2012 10:41:22 PM PST by fight_truth_decay
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To: MamaDearest; samadams2000
ID now needed for drain cleaner...

Q: What ingredients are used to make meth?

A. Over-the-counter cold and asthma medications containing ephedrine or pseudoephedrine, red phosphorous, hydrochloric acid, drain cleaner, battery acid, lye, lantern fuel, and antifreeze are among the ingredients most commonly used. Hazards of Meth Ingredients Manufacturing of Methamphetamine

I was buying what was no more than a simple Vicks cold & flu tablet remedy, Nature Fusion; and had to give my age!!! Note many medicines on the shelf are now held behind the counter..all because of the manufacture of Meth etc..

Another designer drug on the rise is "bath salts".

17 posted on 01/04/2012 10:41:22 PM PST by fight_truth_decay
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woops..sorry for 2x


18 posted on 01/04/2012 10:42:41 PM PST by fight_truth_decay
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To: MamaDearest
The politicians created the leach culture to buy votes, and then they incrementally impose more and more laws on the productive to slake their own thirst for power.

This is how civilizations die...

19 posted on 01/04/2012 10:49:47 PM PST by piytar (The Obama Depression. Say it early, say it often. Why? Because it's TRUE.)
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To: fhayek

This is clearly designed to prevent minorities from clearing clogged drains. Requiring ID is racist!


20 posted on 01/04/2012 10:50:28 PM PST by CitizenUSA (What's special about bad? Bad is easy. Anyone can do it. Try good instead!)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
As much as I hate the ID restrictions on OTC pseudoephedrine products, It seems to have completely killed off meth labs here in Minnesota and thats a good result.

10 years ago we had labs in neighborhoods, vehicles and all over public and private rural property. The damage these clandestine labs caused was devastating to nature and destroyed property.

I am not fooled into thinking the meth use problem has been reduced at all, but at least it keeps the junk production labs away.

Although I commend the efforts to keep the production away, I will continue to laugh at the arguments that these efforts will at all diminish the demand of the end poison. Mexico is all to close and apparently we will never do anything real to stop their imports.

Law abiding will continue to be inconvenienced until the real problem that meth creates is addressed at the current source.

21 posted on 01/04/2012 10:50:41 PM PST by voteNRA (A citizenry armed with rifles simply cannot be tyrannized)
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To: txhurl
That's what I was thinking!

I couldn't believe they used this stuff to make meth... to smoke or drink!...whatever you do with meth.

22 posted on 01/04/2012 10:55:50 PM PST by lonestar (It takes a village of idiots to elect a village idiot.)
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To: JRandomFreeper

Remember “Do whatcha oughter, add...”?


23 posted on 01/04/2012 10:58:00 PM PST by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: MamaDearest
ID now needed for drain cleaner

Well, that is completely reasonable of course, so long as we don't sell drain cleaner in polling places on the first Tuesday in November.

24 posted on 01/04/2012 11:00:29 PM PST by SFConservative
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To: lonestar
"I couldn't believe they used this stuff to make meth"

Cold medicine and drain-o is only the start. There is a bunch of other stuff which I won't name that goes into the process. If they don't blow up the space they are cooking, they pretty much contaminate the entire building including the dirt underneath.

Its really not a pretty process and if you ever have the pleasure of owning an unoccupied property or unimproved rural land, you will become aware of the dangers of these labs.

Whoever the chemist was that thought up this poison needs to be hanged ASAP! and his records burned.

25 posted on 01/04/2012 11:07:28 PM PST by voteNRA (A citizenry armed with rifles simply cannot be tyrannized)
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To: MamaDearest

Because, you see, IL is in such great shape that the government can spend time concentrating on this.

On our way to a completely regulated society.


26 posted on 01/04/2012 11:08:07 PM PST by I still care (I miss my friends, bagels, and the NYC skyline - but not the taxes. I love the South.)
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To: voteNRA

The very restrictions you applaud have had NO effect on the actual production of the poisons you rightfully abhor, but they HAVE made your getting the medications YOU require/desire subject to government approval, under color of law, (the pharmacist has to approve your purchase).

Isn’t it wonderful, living under the ever watchful eye of our beloved BIG BROTHER?

Surely you cannot be ignorant of the fascism of which you seem to approve?


27 posted on 01/04/2012 11:09:51 PM PST by Don W (You can forget what you do for a living when your knees are in the breeze.)
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To: voteNRA

The very restrictions you applaud have had NO effect on the actual production of the poisons you rightfully abhor, but they HAVE made your getting the medications YOU require/desire subject to government approval, under color of law, (the pharmacist has to approve your purchase).

Isn’t it wonderful, living under the ever watchful eye of our beloved BIG BROTHER?

Surely you cannot be ignorant of the fascism of which you seem to approve?


28 posted on 01/04/2012 11:09:51 PM PST by Don W (You can forget what you do for a living when your knees are in the breeze.)
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To: voteNRA; All

I’m sorry for the double post. I’mnot exactly sure what happened...


29 posted on 01/04/2012 11:12:24 PM PST by Don W (You can forget what you do for a living when your knees are in the breeze.)
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To: lonestar

There is a reason meth people look the way they do.

It’s a horrible drug. Once it gets it’s hooks into people, it rots them out from within, and it’s very, very difficult to stop. The leeches that produce this stuff should be executed for murder.


30 posted on 01/04/2012 11:12:24 PM PST by I still care (I miss my friends, bagels, and the NYC skyline - but not the taxes. I love the South.)
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To: fhayek

No way does Illinois have a photo ID law for voting. Does it? But you have to have photo ID to some Drano now?


31 posted on 01/04/2012 11:18:20 PM PST by dennisw (A nation of sheep breeds a government of Democrat wolves!)
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To: MamaDearest

Every time I have to sign for a box of pseudoephedrine, I always say to the pharmacist, “You know, it’s much easier to make meth out of Vick’s inhalers, and you don’t even have to cook it.” They always nod in agreement. But Vick’s inhalers do not require an ID check and signature to purchase.


32 posted on 01/04/2012 11:24:30 PM PST by Hoodat (Because they do not change, Therefore they do not fear God. -Psalm 55:19-)
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To: Don W; voteNRA

Those meth labs just moved south of the border and is a major reason drug cartel violence has exploded around the border these last few. Years.


33 posted on 01/04/2012 11:27:55 PM PST by Drill Thrawl (The patient is too far gone to save.)
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To: Don W
"The very restrictions you applaud have had NO effect on the actual production of the poisons you rightfully abhor, but they HAVE made your getting the medications YOU require/desire subject to government approval, under color of law, (the pharmacist has to approve your purchase). Isn’t it wonderful, living under the ever watchful eye of our beloved BIG BROTHER? Surely you cannot be ignorant of the fascism of which you seem to approve?"

I was waiting for your response DonW and I feel like a hypocrite considering my response to this issue.

I don't by any means think that Big Bro overseeing our purchases of anything is the answer. I'm only conceding that the restrictions currently in place have had a direct, timely effect in the reduction of meth labs in my area.

Now, I have no idea if the supply of poison from Mexico or the restrictions on the cold pills resulted in the reduction of labs in Minnesota. Something resulted in moving the meth lab jobs out of here and I guess I'm glad for it.

I don't like Big Bro subjecting me to any approval of anything, I just don't like junkies rights to produce poison to overtake my property rights,

If you have ever had land located in the vicinity of a meth lab you could understand the loss of value in your investment that goes along with it.

Let the neighbors grow pot as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't cost me anything and as long as they don't bother my family ... I know nothing about it.

Meth is totally different

34 posted on 01/04/2012 11:27:55 PM PST by voteNRA (A citizenry armed with rifles simply cannot be tyrannized)
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To: I still care
Remind me again WHY we as a society should bother to save these sub-humans...

They want to die. They are stupid, and are life without value. They are going to go to great lengths to destroy themselves. It's eugenics in action.

You don't mind trashing the Constitution and the BoR to make it harder for some pee-off-the-porch white trailer trash to off themselves. These out of control law makers lower our standard of living, steal our freedom, steal our money, destroy our society. And you're good with this.

35 posted on 01/04/2012 11:30:12 PM PST by jonascord (Political euthanasia would benefit the species...)
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To: MamaDearest
-- Nitric acid or any product with a free or chemically unneutralized version in a concentration of 5 percent or more.

Anyone getting there hands on nitric acid is not going to waste it by pouring it on someone. They are going to mix it with glycerine or toluene instead to make powerful explosives and blow up their entire house.

36 posted on 01/04/2012 11:31:15 PM PST by Hoodat (Because they do not change, Therefore they do not fear God. -Psalm 55:19-)
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To: voteNRA

I’m glad that meth is totally different. I guess it’s OK to ban anything that might be used to make meth or anything else that you don’t like just so long as nobody touches your guns. Very pro-freedom that.


37 posted on 01/04/2012 11:33:36 PM PST by Mycroft Holmes (Returned for regrooving...)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Bleach apparently escaped, and it’s not the nicest thing to get on your face or in your eyes either.

Not so fast.

-- Hypochlorous acid, either free or combined, and any product with the same in a concentration that will yield 10 percent or more by weight of available chlorine.

38 posted on 01/04/2012 11:34:23 PM PST by Hoodat (Because they do not change, Therefore they do not fear God. -Psalm 55:19-)
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To: voteNRA
The libertarian will have you believe that its a persons inherent right to destroy their life with behavior such as abuse of any pharmaceutica, e.g., methamphetamine, prolific sex, et ali. Even open border policy is all good too.

Do you agree? In principle: I do (see my tag-line).

What needs to occur, however, for libertarian pie-in-the-sky utopia to have any reasonble chance for success: dismantle ALL and ANY social safety nets and legal prohibitions of citizenry personal protection.

While I'm absolutely certain most TEA "party" afficianadios would be absolutely fine with that: as long as you don't mind 3rd world type ghetto / slums in YOUR neighborhood; allow the libertarian's goal of eliminating the war against drugs. That will be the end result of libertarian policy.

Moreover, it would most plausibly result in an environment rich for the recreation of the late 19th century high-plains / frontier.

Society has a right to protect itself from known dangerous threats to its own cohesiveness. Because comes next: the anarchist. We all know what comes after that.

It can be argued that driving a 1969 Plymouth Interceptor at 100 MPH through the residential streets is no foul if no offence (despite being 0.30 BAC), society has decided to protect itself from such behavior.

Anybody advocating liberarian philosophies hasn't seen the carnage of meth.

Libertarians do not consider the social ramifications of personal failures with respect to their views on personal liberty. How many independantly wealthy libertarians would take in a [fill in the drug of choice]-head into their household based on sltruist principle? Me thinks such would be SEP (or NIMBY).

39 posted on 01/04/2012 11:49:34 PM PST by raygun (http://bastiat.org/en/the_law DOT html)
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To: Mycroft Holmes
"I’m glad that meth is totally different. I guess it’s OK to ban anything that might be used to make meth or anything else that you don’t like just so long as nobody touches your guns."

Give me a break here, I'm only conceding that the local restrictions have had a seemingly direct result in meth labs that are in production.

I'm not saying that I agree with the the tactics of restricted sales of otherwise OTC meds.

Sorry I offended you but I'm just trying to have a discussion here and meth has been a problem locally.

40 posted on 01/04/2012 11:54:18 PM PST by voteNRA (A citizenry armed with rifles simply cannot be tyrannized)
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To: voteNRA

There is always a problem locally that justifies further restrictions on freedom. Perhaps if you read the law more carefully you will notice that a lot of the chemicals now tracked are useful in the manufacture of weapons as well as meth. Does that change your thinking any?


41 posted on 01/04/2012 11:57:44 PM PST by Mycroft Holmes (Returned for regrooving...)
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To: MamaDearest

I agree with the posters above who say this is nothing but a way to curb clandestine drug manufacture. I guess now the only question that remains is how many laws and restrictions are required or desired in a supposedly free society that would virtually stop such clandestine drug manufacture. At what point of relinquishing our freedoms are we free of illegal drug use but still a free people? Oh, and before I forget, lights out after the random searches. See you all at roll call.


42 posted on 01/05/2012 12:02:54 AM PST by SpaceBar
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To: Mycroft Holmes
The list will grow. . .in Italy; matches hard to buy; and probably drain cleaner, too. Would mention a couple of more; but why go there.

Meantime, the 'border invite'stands. Adios, America. . .(don't know how to say 'same' in Arabic; but may; soon enough.)

43 posted on 01/05/2012 12:07:55 AM PST by cricket (/get the 'Occupier out of o;ur White House!/ vote Newt 'in'. . .and it is NOT just the economy!)
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To: Mycroft Holmes
"There is always a problem locally that justifies further restrictions on freedom. Perhaps if you read the law more carefully you will notice that a lot of the chemicals now tracked are useful in the manufacture of weapons as well as meth. Does that change your thinking any?

I know you're right and I have had a hard time putting up my argument.

I have encountered 3 different labs in my construction / rehabilitation carrier and have had the unfortunate opportunity to stumble upon one with a baby strapped in a car seat.

It really sours the soul and has a life changing impact on a person like you or me, one that I hope you never have to experience.

Meth Sucks! I hope you never have to find out how much it destroys

Cheers Freeper Mycroft!

44 posted on 01/05/2012 12:14:10 AM PST by voteNRA (A citizenry armed with rifles simply cannot be tyrannized)
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To: MamaDearest
The institutionalization of society marches on.

We are just inmates and it appears, guilty until proven innocent, and even then, we criminals must be strictly controlled.

Brave new world...

"Show me your papers or I'll taze you... ...hmmm... seems you have an overdue library book, we will remove your children from your home...."

45 posted on 01/05/2012 12:14:49 AM PST by Bon mots ("When seconds count, the police are just minutes away...")
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To: MamaDearest

I have this terrible habit of clogging my drain and losing my ID on election day.....

Well, at least I can vote.


46 posted on 01/05/2012 12:26:46 AM PST by MacMattico
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To: Hoodat

Customary 6.75% laundry bleach does not meet that strength.


47 posted on 01/05/2012 12:26:46 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Sometimes progressives find their scripture in the penumbra of sacred bathroom stall writings (Tzar))
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To: voteNRA

I must respectfully disagree. The legal restrictions you seem to approve of have merely caused the producers of the poison to move laterally. In order to eliminate the producers of the filth, you must remove their CUSTOMER BASE.

Education is the answer to this plague. To try and “legislate away” the poison is to ENCOURAGE those who would pollute us with this utter plague. Prohibition CANNOT work, yet here we are again!

Destroying the producers by ostracizing and shaming the users is the only way to deal with this.

SHAME may be out of vogue, but it is still useful among those of us who still value family. Those who resist the reality of their choices WILL die of their own hand, with we who TRIED valiantly to show them the error of their ways wholly absolved of the responsibility of their poor choices.

It may sound harsh, but reality is not exactly the most gentle of mind-states.

You can only try to help someone for so long. After a while, you realize that they are bound and determined to destroy themselves, and all you can do is watch.

I recently had a very close friend self-immolate with booze. It was far slower than what meth does, so don’t lecture me. I also happen to work at a large hospital. I have seen things that you would never sleep again had you been there. Ask anyone you know that works in an ER about dopers. Heck, ask anyone in the HOUSEKEEPING department of any hospital about what they have to deal with.

Much as I’d like to see “thoughtfulness and love” cure these people, the only thing that MIGHT work is good, old-fashioned tough love. Anything less insults them, and they know it. They care about NOTHING but their drug.

It’s the “Love all” ideal that has created this monster, and only the REALITY A**H**E stands a remote chance of slowing it down. Stopping it is yet another dragon.


48 posted on 01/05/2012 12:28:27 AM PST by Don W (You can forget what you do for a living when your knees are in the breeze.)
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To: raygun
Anybody advocating liberarian philosophies hasn't seen the carnage of meth.

I have long advocated for restoring this kind of judgment to doctors and pharmacies with the same kind of controls and supervision normally expected for any other medication. So woes associated with "moonshine meth" are simply not applicable to such a discussion.

49 posted on 01/05/2012 12:32:53 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Sometimes progressives find their scripture in the penumbra of sacred bathroom stall writings (Tzar))
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To: voteNRA
I bought a house that had a meth lab in it. It lab was easier to clean up than the bedroom they birthed the goat in.

I have spent 25+ years of my life providing ID and signing to buy laboratory equipment and chemicals so that some moron won't make crack pipes. I have news for you. I have a neighbor who makes drug paraphernalia (lovely stuff really, qualifies as art glass). He gets exactly none of his supplies from places where he has to sign for them. I suppose that you could regulate the sale of colored Pyrex glass and inconvenience all of the art glass folks as well in your quest for a drug free society.

Regulations only annoy the law abiding but they do provide good government jobs for union hacks. I suppose that there is some social good to come of it.

50 posted on 01/05/2012 12:33:32 AM PST by Mycroft Holmes (Returned for regrooving...)
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