Skip to comments.Incomprehensibly stupid Army regulation killing Americans in Afghanistan
Posted on 01/07/2012 12:56:45 PM PST by George Varnum
...Army regulations require that medevac helicopters follow the Geneva Convention, which specifies that they must be unarmed and display prominent Red Cross markings. Furthermore, Army regulation forbids medevac choppers from entering a combat zone without armed helicopter escort.
If armed escort is not immediately available, medevac helicopters remain grounded, regardless the emergency. Once they do go in, they become a conspicuous target for enemy forces, most of whom have never read the Geneva Convention, and would laugh it out of existence if they had.
(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...
Am I the only American with the sneaking suspicion that we were never supposed to "win" this war in the first place?
It's beginning to look as though our own regime is setting us up to LOSE... again. (?)
No alcohol in country, even on US bases.
No porno. Picture of a woman in any bathing suit would be considered porno.
No sex, even with US female personnel
If a terr shoots at you, ducks behind a building for 2 seconds and reemerges without his AK you can't shoot him.
Finally, and this is not a joke; Marines must have no audible farting in presence of indig.
A friend is in the middle of it. Orthopedic Surgeon. Here’s his blog;
The Geneva rules of engagement should only apply to those countries that also sign - the Taliban isn’t one of them.
The mention of incomprehensibly stupid with respect to anything military is noticeably incomplete without proper acknowledgment of the head idiot!
Beyond stupid. Especially in a combat theater where the medevac ranges are 100s of miles. Imagine Texas, and your son is shot and wounded in El Paso, and the hospital is in Dallas. That’s how big Afghanistan is.
Wow. That’s an amazing blog, and I just clicked into this story.
“It seems these past few weeks have dealt the worse hand to the E.O.D. soldiers. The volume of IEDs that insurgents are placing has increased and their wicked tactics have worsened. Not only are the primary IEDs being placed to damage passing coalition vehicles but secondary devices are put nearby to maim or kill E.O.D. personal whose mission is to disarm them. One such incident our FST had to deal with is rather noteworthy.
“Four E.O.D. soldiers were on a mission to disarm a suspected IED. Prior to getting to the suspect position they encountered an unknown large IED that blasted the MRAP they were traveling in. The force was so intense it picked up the vehicle and flipped it end to end. When the rescue crew arrived it was determined the area was unsafe due to multiple secondary IEDs in the immediate area. The extraction plan was then changed. A medevac Blackhawk was used to hoist the injured soldiers to safety and they were then transferred to our forward surgical unit for treatment. When they arrived all four were brought into our facility. Only one of the four soldiers was able to drag himself in under his own power; the others were carried in on stretchers.”
(Much more at the combat surgeon’s blog....)
How can anybody read that and not weep for our troops in that hellhole?
Tell yer Godson thanks for his turn in the barrel....my brother is retired USAF PJ (24 years).
USAF Rescue birds use M134DT Miniguns instead of red crosses to protect the wounded . The taliban never signed the geneva convention. It was “official” when I was active duty that if we were deployed to a low intensity conflict or war it was geneva convention rules. If we were deployed against a terrorists or foreign criminal organizations those rules were moot. We carried hollow point ammo. I am still in possession of the letter an blanket orders allowing my team such liberties and enhanced standard operating procedures (SOP).
Rules are for people who follow them and terrorists / criminal cartels do not.
My opinion and past experience.
Stay safe !
Thanks for visiting it! He comes home the 18th, then his wife deploys. Two toddles and a baby.
Interesting but sad to read about his experiences. Thanks for posting.
I know they are constrained somewhat in what they can say about the civilian leadership, but hey, I guess that's what courage is for.
It’s hard to remember there’s still a war going on, if you don’t have family over there. The day-in and day-out grind doesn’t meet the ‘rat MSM’s standards, not when they are in reelect-Obama mode. Unless double digits die in a blast, you would not know troops were still fighting.
according to this website....the numbers of US casualties have increased dramatically in Afghanistan since Obama took over (something never heard in the news)
I actually cried reading that. Damn. heartbreaking for everyone.
So they lack courage?
...having stated that you've never been in the military, it's not surprising that you wouldn't understand that the word protest and officers never go together....look at it this way if they did it would like like this, ...the ex officer protested loudly
If I were still in the Army we'd be joking that that phrase is "triple-redundant".
This is how you win a war.
You use OVERWHELMING FORCE and put the fear of God (or Allah) into them until they surrender, unconditionally. And yes it is ugly, but war is ugly by definition. If you cannot commit to total war then just opt out and wait for the inevitable result which is your defeat.
Audible farting? I am not sure that I have the proper sphincter articulation that could guaranty that.
Thanks George Varnum.
Yes, it is true about the Army Medivac helicopters. It is NOT true, however, about the Marines. They do not have to abide by that rule and they DO shoot back.
I could get on a detailed incremental rant but publicity is what is hurting current EOD profession. Secrecy was our security and mixing our methods of approach and means of travel saved us from IED ambushes . SMUD aka small munitions disruption was a viable Render safe procedure (RSP). We were one of the first DOD assets to use the Barrett M82A1, now the M107, with the raufus rounds to disrupt suspected IED’s, UXO, submunitions and mines etc ....
IMO...as long as the polidiots pussyfoot around with the host nation and neighboring countries that feed and support the enemy it’s a losing situation. SOP should be if IED goes off on the road next to Bagone Zeggi then bring in the dozers and level Bagone Zeggi and bus all the little goat humpers to a pro-afghani / american ville and let peer pressure and dislocation of their operators mess up plan “A”......
With all due respect this crop of EOD techs are earning their hazardous duty and demo pay these days.......God Protect em all ...please !
Stay safe Travis !
I can’t handle reading the blog. I just cry and pray....
Thank you for praying for my friend, and all our people over there!
Everone knows the real reason we are in F ghanistan is to get those secret underground nuclear sub bases in place. To use against Iran.
In other news, with the repeal of “Don’t ask, Don’t tell”, and the pussification of the military, the enemy has switched from using IEDs to IUDs.
We have a family member scheduled to deploy to Afghanistan this year. Given the current state of ROI and other PC requirements..I think it is time that we leave. Let the Taliban have the place. I know a lot of Vets with a lot of seniority and rank who feel the same way. If they won’t allow us to kill then enemy and imprison the captured..then it no longer a military operation. If the State Dept wants to do a country building job with the civilians..let them send the libs to sort the place out, but the military shouldn’t be doing the job.
Michael Yon has been screaming about this idiocy for a while now. Several of his recent dispatches have covered this.
When I was medivaced in Viet Nam it was by a Marine cargo Chinook 46. No red crosses, no support. We were under heavy ground fire and helicopters were ordered not to come in. Two Marine pilots couldnt take it anymore and came in steep and fast. We were quickly loaded and took off, the helicopter taking rounds. Luckily we made it to Phu Bai.
I wonder how many pilots today ignore orders.
We have a family member scheduled to deploy to Afghanistan this year. Given the current state of ROI and other PC requirements..I think it is time that we leave. Let the Taliban have the place. I know a lot of Vets with a lot of seniority and rank who feel the same way. If they wont allow us to kill then enemy and imprison the captured..then it no longer a military operation. If the State Dept wants to do a country building job with the civilians..let them send the libs to sort the place out, but the military shouldnt be doing the job.
Have to agree. We also need to quit giving Pakistan money. They are making life harder in Afghanistan for us.
If I were the General in charge, I would take the Red Cross off the side, arm the helicopter to the teeth, and put a medic on board and bring the wounded out in a combat chopper. The Taliban is not going to stop shooting because of a Red Cross on the chopper anyway.
I’ve heard that the red cross actually has a tendency to enrage Mooslims, as they see it as a “Christian” symbol.
I suppose it might be a little reminiscent of the red “Maltese Cross” used as the ancient logo of the Knights Templar, AKA “Crusaders”.
Islamics are still a little sensitive about that, we are told.
If anything a red cross would draw fire from about any Muslim - including, if they could get away with it, so called “friendlys”.. Wonder if any Vets from over there have seen that happen?
Seems as if I’ve seen photos of US ambulances marked with a red crescent instead of the red cross - so as not to offend the locals, apparently.
IIRC in VietNam we were about the only ones expected to uphold the Geneva Conventions, weren’t we? From what some of the guys who were there (I was in Korea in ‘68) tell, the further back in the boonies you got the less seriously the convention tended to be taken.
Michael Yon has been on this for months. He has ticked off the brass in Afghanistan with his scathing articles.
Our Rules of Engagement under Obama are an outrage.
Just read the blog and I have to say that my level of disgust with our leadership has dug a new low that did not think possible
Let us not forget this one.
Well, that's kinda what I was hinting at.
I don't know. Do they?
I couldn't order kids to follow stupid polticial ROEs that put their lives at greater risk. I would imagine that military officers think this scenario out before they take their commission.
Well they are out putting their lives on the line for people like you. While you sit back and insult them.
Which action takes more courage?
I'm not buying that one anymore.
Their putting their lives on the line for Obama.
If that takes courage, I guess they got it.
Frankly, I'm sick of spending money on these half-assed exercises.
Yes its a shame that people have died for scum like you. I do agree.
Anyone working for this government is not doing anything "for me."
What is the average number of posts to any given FR topic, if you have any idea, before it devolves into a flame war and dies?
It looks like 44 about did it for this one.
Is anyone out there keeping score?