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Incomprehensibly stupid Army regulation killing Americans in Afghanistan
DC Independent Examiner ^ | Jan. 7, 2012 | James Simpson

Posted on 01/07/2012 12:56:45 PM PST by George Varnum

...Army regulations require that medevac helicopters follow the Geneva Convention, which specifies that they must be unarmed and display prominent Red Cross markings. Furthermore, Army regulation forbids medevac choppers from entering a combat zone without armed helicopter escort.

If armed escort is not immediately available, medevac helicopters remain grounded, regardless the emergency. Once they do go in, they become a conspicuous target for enemy forces, most of whom have never read the Geneva Convention, and would laugh it out of existence if they had.

(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: afghanistan; army; belongsinbloggers; medevac; medevachelicopters; regulations
I wonder which enemy kills more of our finest in this war; the Islamic Supremacists or our own government's bureaucratic rules and regulations?

Am I the only American with the sneaking suspicion that we were never supposed to "win" this war in the first place?

It's beginning to look as though our own regime is setting us up to LOSE... again. (?)

1 posted on 01/07/2012 12:56:59 PM PST by George Varnum
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To: George Varnum
From godson just back from Sandbox (Air Force PJ)

No alcohol in country, even on US bases.

No porno. Picture of a woman in any bathing suit would be considered porno.

No sex, even with US female personnel

If a terr shoots at you, ducks behind a building for 2 seconds and reemerges without his AK you can't shoot him.

Finally, and this is not a joke; Marines must have no audible farting in presence of indig.

2 posted on 01/07/2012 1:03:11 PM PST by MindBender26 (Don't bother me with the small stuff. I'm too busy trying to save the Republic from Obamaism)
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To: George Varnum

A friend is in the middle of it. Orthopedic Surgeon. Here’s his blog;
http://warbirddoctor.blogspot.com/


3 posted on 01/07/2012 1:06:03 PM PST by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: George Varnum

The Geneva rules of engagement should only apply to those countries that also sign - the Taliban isn’t one of them.


4 posted on 01/07/2012 1:06:43 PM PST by stubernx98 (cranky, but reasonable)
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To: George Varnum

oh nooooooooo....


5 posted on 01/07/2012 1:09:56 PM PST by tutstar (Want pings to Aaron Klein articles and OWS nonsense?)
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To: George Varnum

The mention of incomprehensibly stupid with respect to anything military is noticeably incomplete without proper acknowledgment of the head idiot!

6 posted on 01/07/2012 1:12:55 PM PST by Zakeet (If Obama had half a brain, his butt would be lopsided)
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To: George Varnum; SandRat

Beyond stupid. Especially in a combat theater where the medevac ranges are 100s of miles. Imagine Texas, and your son is shot and wounded in El Paso, and the hospital is in Dallas. That’s how big Afghanistan is.


7 posted on 01/07/2012 1:13:55 PM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra; Squantos

Wow. That’s an amazing blog, and I just clicked into this story.

“It seems these past few weeks have dealt the worse hand to the E.O.D. soldiers. The volume of IED’s that insurgents are placing has increased and their wicked tactics have worsened. Not only are the primary IED’s being placed to damage passing coalition vehicles but secondary devices are put nearby to maim or kill E.O.D. personal whose mission is to disarm them. One such incident our FST had to deal with is rather noteworthy.

“Four E.O.D. soldiers were on a mission to disarm a suspected IED. Prior to getting to the suspect position they encountered an unknown large IED that blasted the MRAP they were traveling in. The force was so intense it picked up the vehicle and flipped it end to end. When the rescue crew arrived it was determined the area was unsafe due to multiple secondary IED’s in the immediate area. The extraction plan was then changed. A medevac Blackhawk was used to hoist the injured soldiers to safety and they were then transferred to our forward surgical unit for treatment. When they arrived all four were brought into our facility. Only one of the four soldiers was able to drag himself in under his own power; the others were carried in on stretchers.”

(Much more at the combat surgeon’s blog....)


8 posted on 01/07/2012 1:17:41 PM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra

How can anybody read that and not weep for our troops in that hellhole?


9 posted on 01/07/2012 1:20:12 PM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: MindBender26

Tell yer Godson thanks for his turn in the barrel....my brother is retired USAF PJ (24 years).

USAF Rescue birds use M134DT Miniguns instead of red crosses to protect the wounded . The taliban never signed the geneva convention. It was “official” when I was active duty that if we were deployed to a low intensity conflict or war it was geneva convention rules. If we were deployed against a terrorists or foreign criminal organizations those rules were moot. We carried hollow point ammo. I am still in possession of the letter an blanket orders allowing my team such liberties and enhanced standard operating procedures (SOP).

Rules are for people who follow them and terrorists / criminal cartels do not.

My opinion and past experience.

Stay safe !


10 posted on 01/07/2012 1:20:46 PM PST by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet)
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To: Travis McGee

Thanks for visiting it! He comes home the 18th, then his wife deploys. Two toddles and a baby.


11 posted on 01/07/2012 1:20:57 PM PST by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra

Interesting but sad to read about his experiences. Thanks for posting.


12 posted on 01/07/2012 1:24:05 PM PST by Blennos
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To: Travis McGee
Never been in the military, but one would think there would be some protest regarding these rules from the higher-ranking officers.

I know they are constrained somewhat in what they can say about the civilian leadership, but hey, I guess that's what courage is for.

13 posted on 01/07/2012 1:24:14 PM PST by Trailerpark Badass
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra

toddlers


14 posted on 01/07/2012 1:24:32 PM PST by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra

It’s hard to remember there’s still a war going on, if you don’t have family over there. The day-in and day-out grind doesn’t meet the ‘rat MSM’s standards, not when they are in reelect-Obama mode. Unless double digits die in a blast, you would not know troops were still fighting.


15 posted on 01/07/2012 1:25:11 PM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: George Varnum

http://icasualties.org/oef/

according to this website....the numbers of US casualties have increased dramatically in Afghanistan since Obama took over (something never heard in the news)


16 posted on 01/07/2012 1:30:33 PM PST by BookmanTheJanitor
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra

I actually cried reading that. Damn. heartbreaking for everyone.


17 posted on 01/07/2012 1:32:37 PM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: Trailerpark Badass

So they lack courage?


18 posted on 01/07/2012 1:34:47 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Trailerpark Badass
but one would think there would be some protest regarding these rules from the higher-ranking officers.

...having stated that you've never been in the military, it's not surprising that you wouldn't understand that the word protest and officers never go together....look at it this way if they did it would like like this, ...the ex officer protested loudly

19 posted on 01/07/2012 1:41:04 PM PST by Doogle (((USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated)))
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To: George Varnum
"Incomprehensibly stupid Army regulation"

If I were still in the Army we'd be joking that that phrase is "triple-redundant".

20 posted on 01/07/2012 1:42:58 PM PST by LZ_Bayonet ( I AM THE TEA PARTY LEADER !)
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To: George Varnum
Am I the only American with the sneaking suspicion that we were never supposed to "win" this war in the first place?

This is how you win a war.

You use OVERWHELMING FORCE and put the fear of God (or Allah) into them until they surrender, unconditionally. And yes it is ugly, but war is ugly by definition. If you cannot commit to total war then just opt out and wait for the inevitable result which is your defeat.

21 posted on 01/07/2012 1:44:48 PM PST by mc5cents
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To: MindBender26

Audible farting? I am not sure that I have the proper sphincter articulation that could guaranty that.


22 posted on 01/07/2012 1:50:43 PM PST by fhayek
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks George Varnum.


23 posted on 01/07/2012 1:58:42 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Merry Christmas, Happy New Year! May 2013 be even Happier!)
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To: George Varnum

Yes, it is true about the Army Medivac helicopters. It is NOT true, however, about the Marines. They do not have to abide by that rule and they DO shoot back.


24 posted on 01/07/2012 1:58:42 PM PST by dolander2002 ("...but that doesn't make me a bad person, does it?")
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To: Travis McGee

I could get on a detailed incremental rant but publicity is what is hurting current EOD profession. Secrecy was our security and mixing our methods of approach and means of travel saved us from IED ambushes . SMUD aka small munitions disruption was a viable Render safe procedure (RSP). We were one of the first DOD assets to use the Barrett M82A1, now the M107, with the raufus rounds to disrupt suspected IED’s, UXO, submunitions and mines etc ....

IMO...as long as the polidiots pussyfoot around with the host nation and neighboring countries that feed and support the enemy it’s a losing situation. SOP should be if IED goes off on the road next to Bagone Zeggi then bring in the dozers and level Bagone Zeggi and bus all the little goat humpers to a pro-afghani / american ville and let peer pressure and dislocation of their operators mess up plan “A”......

With all due respect this crop of EOD techs are earning their hazardous duty and demo pay these days.......God Protect em all ...please !

Stay safe Travis !


25 posted on 01/07/2012 1:59:32 PM PST by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet)
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra; Travis McGee

I can’t handle reading the blog. I just cry and pray....


26 posted on 01/07/2012 2:04:50 PM PST by Silentgypsy (If this creature is not stopped it could make its way to Novosibirsk!)
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To: Silentgypsy

Thank you for praying for my friend, and all our people over there!


27 posted on 01/07/2012 2:06:38 PM PST by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: SunkenCiv; George Varnum

Everone knows the real reason we are in F ghanistan is to get those secret underground nuclear sub bases in place. To use against Iran.

In other news, with the repeal of “Don’t ask, Don’t tell”, and the pussification of the military, the enemy has switched from using IEDs to IUDs.


28 posted on 01/07/2012 2:14:08 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: leapfrog0202

29 posted on 01/07/2012 2:18:40 PM PST by leapfrog0202 ("the American presidency is not supposed to be a journey of personal discovery" Sarah Palin)
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To: leapfrog0202

We have a family member scheduled to deploy to Afghanistan this year. Given the current state of ROI and other PC requirements..I think it is time that we leave. Let the Taliban have the place. I know a lot of Vets with a lot of seniority and rank who feel the same way. If they won’t allow us to kill then enemy and imprison the captured..then it no longer a military operation. If the State Dept wants to do a country building job with the civilians..let them send the libs to sort the place out, but the military shouldn’t be doing the job.


30 posted on 01/07/2012 2:29:59 PM PST by Oldexpat
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To: George Varnum

Michael Yon has been screaming about this idiocy for a while now. Several of his recent dispatches have covered this.

http://www.michaelyon-online.com/michael-s-dispatches/


31 posted on 01/07/2012 2:33:00 PM PST by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: George Varnum

When I was medivaced in Viet Nam it was by a Marine cargo Chinook 46. No red crosses, no support. We were under heavy ground fire and helicopters were ordered not to come in. Two Marine pilots couldn’t take it anymore and came in steep and fast. We were quickly loaded and took off, the helicopter taking rounds. Luckily we made it to Phu Bai.
I wonder how many pilots today ignore orders.


32 posted on 01/07/2012 2:44:32 PM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink)
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To: Oldexpat

We have a family member scheduled to deploy to Afghanistan this year. Given the current state of ROI and other PC requirements..I think it is time that we leave. Let the Taliban have the place. I know a lot of Vets with a lot of seniority and rank who feel the same way. If they won’t allow us to kill then enemy and imprison the captured..then it no longer a military operation. If the State Dept wants to do a country building job with the civilians..let them send the libs to sort the place out, but the military shouldn’t be doing the job.
_____________________________

Have to agree. We also need to quit giving Pakistan money. They are making life harder in Afghanistan for us.


33 posted on 01/07/2012 2:44:43 PM PST by leapfrog0202 ("the American presidency is not supposed to be a journey of personal discovery" Sarah Palin)
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To: George Varnum

If I were the General in charge, I would take the Red Cross off the side, arm the helicopter to the teeth, and put a medic on board and bring the wounded out in a combat chopper. The Taliban is not going to stop shooting because of a Red Cross on the chopper anyway.


34 posted on 01/07/2012 2:45:31 PM PST by Venturer
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To: Venturer

I’ve heard that the red cross actually has a tendency to enrage Mooslims, as they see it as a “Christian” symbol.

I suppose it might be a little reminiscent of the red “Maltese Cross” used as the ancient logo of the Knights Templar, AKA “Crusaders”.

Islamics are still a little sensitive about that, we are told.

If anything a red cross would draw fire from about any Muslim - including, if they could get away with it, so called “friendlys”.. Wonder if any Vets from over there have seen that happen?

Seems as if I’ve seen photos of US ambulances marked with a red crescent instead of the red cross - so as not to offend the locals, apparently.

IIRC in VietNam we were about the only ones expected to uphold the Geneva Conventions, weren’t we? From what some of the guys who were there (I was in Korea in ‘68) tell, the further back in the boonies you got the less seriously the convention tended to be taken.


35 posted on 01/07/2012 3:04:46 PM PST by George Varnum (Liberty, like our Forefather's Flintlock Musket, must be kept clean, oiled, and READY!)
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To: George Varnum

Michael Yon has been on this for months. He has ticked off the brass in Afghanistan with his scathing articles.


36 posted on 01/07/2012 3:19:44 PM PST by Islander7 (There is no septic system so vile, so filthy, the left won't drink from to further their agenda)
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To: George Varnum

...beginning?...


37 posted on 01/07/2012 3:35:14 PM PST by onedoug
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra
A friend is in the middle of it. Orthopedic Surgeon. Here’s his blog;
http://warbirddoctor.blogspot.com/

Our Rules of Engagement under Obama are an outrage.

Just read the blog and I have to say that my level of disgust with our leadership has dug a new low that did not think possible

38 posted on 01/07/2012 5:03:50 PM PST by rdcbn
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To: MindBender26

Let us not forget this one.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2826607/posts


39 posted on 01/07/2012 5:16:38 PM PST by NY Attitude (Make love not war but be prepared for either.)
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To: Doogle
look at it this way if they did it would like like this, ...the ex officer protested loudly

Well, that's kinda what I was hinting at.

40 posted on 01/07/2012 5:23:03 PM PST by Trailerpark Badass
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To: driftdiver
So they lack courage?

I don't know. Do they?

I couldn't order kids to follow stupid polticial ROEs that put their lives at greater risk. I would imagine that military officers think this scenario out before they take their commission.

41 posted on 01/07/2012 5:28:51 PM PST by Trailerpark Badass
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To: bigheadfred

:’D


42 posted on 01/07/2012 6:51:43 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Merry Christmas, Happy New Year! May 2013 be even Happier!)
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To: Trailerpark Badass

Well they are out putting their lives on the line for people like you. While you sit back and insult them.

Which action takes more courage?


43 posted on 01/08/2012 5:54:28 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver
Putting their lives on the line...for me??

I'm not buying that one anymore.

Their putting their lives on the line for Obama.

If that takes courage, I guess they got it.

Frankly, I'm sick of spending money on these half-assed exercises.

44 posted on 01/08/2012 9:01:36 AM PST by Trailerpark Badass
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To: Trailerpark Badass

Yes its a shame that people have died for scum like you. I do agree.


45 posted on 01/08/2012 9:18:35 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver
LOL, spare me the romantic nonsense.

Anyone working for this government is not doing anything "for me."

46 posted on 01/08/2012 9:28:05 AM PST by Trailerpark Badass
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To: SunkenCiv

What is the average number of posts to any given FR topic, if you have any idea, before it devolves into a flame war and dies?

It looks like 44 about did it for this one.

Is anyone out there keeping score?


47 posted on 01/08/2012 12:05:20 PM PST by George Varnum (Liberty, like our Forefather's Flintlock Musket, must be kept clean, oiled, and READY!)
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To: George Varnum

no,just you.


48 posted on 01/08/2012 6:44:19 PM PST by Trailerpark Badass
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