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Anti-Romney ads on Bain Capital: Whose is toughest?
The Christian Science Monitor ^ | Jan. 9, 2012 | Peter Grier

Posted on 01/11/2012 7:43:12 AM PST by Comrade Brother Abu Bubba

Negative ads are rolling out about Mitt Romney's tenure at Bain Capital, trying to paint him as the sort of privileged money guy who created the financial meltdown.

opponents are lining up to attack him over his time as head of Bain Capital, in case you haven’t heard. They’re going to accuse him of bankrupting companies, throwing people out of work, and generally behaving like Gordon Gekko, the amoral Michael Douglas character from the flick “Wall Street.” "Greed is good"

“If he ends up looking more like an opportunist who profited for the few, instead of a man who created jobs for the many, it’s hard to imagine his poll numbers won’t drop,” write Politico’s Reid Epstein and Jim VandeHei.

(Excerpt) Read more at csmonitor.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: baincapital; romney
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Romney, wrong politician at the wrong time. Romney is going to make Obama look good to the American public. ObamaCare = RomneyCare

The Democrats will come out with an ad where Gordon Gekko formally endorses Mitt Romney. Conservative Republicans should beat the Democrats to the punch. Knock out Mitt Gekko, NOW.

1 posted on 01/11/2012 7:43:22 AM PST by Comrade Brother Abu Bubba
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To: Comrade Brother Abu Bubba
The attacks on Romney in regards to Bain are being portrayed by the Romney lovers as a left wing attack on capitalism.

BS

Romney used Bain to raid workers pension funds then stuck the government (US taxpayers) with the bill. If criticism of that is anti-capitalist then I guess I am not a capitalist.

Go Newt!

2 posted on 01/11/2012 7:47:54 AM PST by TexasFreeper2009 (Go Newt!)
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To: Comrade Brother Abu Bubba

The problem with attacking Romney about what he did at Bain is that it has caused conservatives (real ones) to do the unthinkable - defending Romney.

Romney has enough of which to be critical, starting with Romneycare, which is anti-free enterprise. It’s stoopid to be attacking him for when he actually practiced capitalism.


3 posted on 01/11/2012 7:48:05 AM PST by Daveinyork
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To: Comrade Brother Abu Bubba

Sorry, not interested in going OWS at this time. I’ll check back when conservatives reappear on this topic.


4 posted on 01/11/2012 7:48:11 AM PST by magritte
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To: Comrade Brother Abu Bubba
Attacking Bain Capital is an even stupider strategy than attacking Bill Clinton. They both happened in the same era.

The Democrats will do what they always do. They would like nothing better than to parade out Bain Capital as a failure of capitalism to take the edge off how ObaMao, Bwaney Frank, George Soros and company have really screwed up the country since taking over congress in 2007.

Stick to ObamaCare = RomneyCare. That's a strategy which actually makes sense.

5 posted on 01/11/2012 7:52:06 AM PST by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: Comrade Brother Abu Bubba

I think the whole meme of “Gingrich’s attacks on Romney’s Bain activity are leftist class warfare” is bogus. Venture capital is not based on production, but on taking advantage of good marketing and overly-cheap financing costs. It thrived during the late 90s and 2000s because Greenspan—government—kept financing costs artificially low. This spawned excessive speculatory activity in financial markets that caused market participants to not properly price risk.

So all a VC did was take a company private, issue huge amounts of debt to generate cash, pay itself that cash via a “dividend,” and then sell the company out in an IPO. Any logical measure would say the VC people just made the company less valuable, because it just squandered its capital and screwed over debt holders in the process. But because of Greenspan’s artificial cap on interest rates and his huge continuous flood of money into the markets, the stock market would tend to buy back the company at more than they sold it to the VC in the first place. The process was this: At the time the private equity guys took a company private, the stock of money was at X. In a few years, because of Greespan, the stock of money was at X + Y, where Y is a large postiive number. That excess money, Y, sitting around, has to be thrown somewhere, so it was thrown into all manner of crazy things like sub-prime, IPOs, etc.

And the bond market, characterized for most of the era by a massive Fed-induced credit bubble, was stupid enough to let the VC guys do it.

This is not how capitalist economies ought to operate, or would operate, under normal conditions.


6 posted on 01/11/2012 7:53:24 AM PST by Thane_Banquo
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To: TexasFreeper2009
This is the end of the Republican Party and of conservatism. When conservatives begin attacking capitalism and conservative principles purely out of political expediency and (in Newt's case) out of a pique of having been attacked out of the lead, then it's all over. We may as well go home and let the socialists take over.

Newt should be ashamed of himself as should Perry and both should be excoriated for this line of attack. Shame on us conservatives--apparently we are as bad as the "establishment Republicans" in being incapable of winning on principle.
7 posted on 01/11/2012 7:53:36 AM PST by Sudetenland (Anybody but Obama!!!!)
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To: magritte
Sorry, not interested in going OWS at this time. I’ll check back when conservatives reappear on this topic.
Yes, but only a goofball of the highest order--a world-class master of goofballishness--would conflate OSW boilerplate anti-capitalism with Willard's lies about his activities at Bain compared with the actual history of Bain Capital: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2831075/posts

So, are you a pro-Romney goofball? Or are you an ordinary goofball befuddled by the pro-Romney fog of lies and distortions. I wonder.
8 posted on 01/11/2012 7:54:51 AM PST by Timaeus (Willard Mitt Romney Delenda Est)
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To: Thane_Banquo

What a load of garbage. Venture capital primes the pump of capitalism and of the economy. Nothing Romney did is wrong or anything other than classic capitalism.


9 posted on 01/11/2012 7:55:37 AM PST by Sudetenland (Anybody but Obama!!!!)
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To: Thane_Banquo
I think the whole meme of “Gingrich’s attacks on Romney’s Bain activity are leftist class warfare” is bogus. Venture capital is not based on production, but on taking advantage of good marketing and overly-cheap financing costs. It thrived during the late 90s and 2000s because Greenspan—government—kept financing costs artificially low. This spawned excessive speculatory activity in financial markets that caused market participants to not properly price risk.
ftw! Also see: http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/how-many-cheers-bain_616558.html?nopager=1
10 posted on 01/11/2012 7:56:17 AM PST by Timaeus (Willard Mitt Romney Delenda Est)
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To: Comrade Brother Abu Bubba

Bain Capital started out as a venture capital firm. That’s the Staples and Sports Authority era, which DID create jobs. We use Staples for our business office supplies, and will continue to do so. They’re very good to us.

But then Bain Capital morphed into a leveraged buyout firm. Think Henry Kravitz. Their targets were usually strong companies (often with a strong cash position) that were undervalued in the market. They looted these companies, and destroyed jobs.

This mixed record of Bain Capital is confusing to many, and is being used to confuse many more. Learn the facts, and don’t be confused!


11 posted on 01/11/2012 7:57:30 AM PST by Honorary Serb (Kosovo is Serbia! Free Srpska! Abolish ICTY!)
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To: Sudetenland

Oh shut up, read the above post and stop defending Bernie Madoff Romney.

It’s a sad day when conservatives feel they have to defend disgusting greedy men like Mitt Romney.


12 posted on 01/11/2012 7:58:05 AM PST by Reagan69 (I supported Sarah Palin and all I got was a lousy DVD !)
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To: Timaeus

Stuff your left-wing anti-capitalism crap up your DU ass. When you become a real conservative and not just an anti-Romney hack get back to me.

Troll.


13 posted on 01/11/2012 7:58:14 AM PST by magritte
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To: Comrade Brother Abu Bubba
The Democrats will come out with an ad where Gordon Gekko formally endorses Mitt Romney.

Here's news for you: They already tried that in Pennsylvania in the 2010 U.S. Senate election against Pat Toomey. They bought wall to wall advertising and sunk millions into blaming Pat Toomey for the market meltdown. They even put those ads on conservative talk radio. The Gekko-Toomey ad aired so often that I can still recite it to you word for word.

Toomey was an investment banker in the Bain Capital era. It worked so well that Joe Sestak, then a sitting Democrat congressman, cruised to an easy win as Pennsylvania's Junior Senator.

14 posted on 01/11/2012 7:59:56 AM PST by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: Thane_Banquo

“Venture capital is not based on production, but on taking advantage of good marketing and overly-cheap financing costs.”

Yeah, why stop at the VC:s? Why not simply define pretty much all business activity as somehow vaguely immoral because... it uses fed-printed money (yuck!). That´s the “conservative” ticket right there.

What´s next - the labor theory of value as the foundation of GOP economic policy?

“That excess money, Y, sitting around, has to be thrown somewhere, so it was thrown into all manner of crazy things like sub-prime, IPOs, etc.”

Yea, IPO:s and Sub-prime - all the same. Yessiree.


15 posted on 01/11/2012 8:00:17 AM PST by globelamp
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To: magritte
Stuff your left-wing anti-capitalism crap up your DU ass. When you become a real conservative and not just an anti-Romney hack get back to me.
Yes, I am anti-Romney, and I call you out for being pro-Romney as you imitate Romney's own conflation of capitalism with the anti-capitalist activities of Bain Capital with "capitalism". Thank you for confirming that you are not a befuddled goofball; rather, you are conscious of your Willardism and hatred for all things conservative.
16 posted on 01/11/2012 8:02:50 AM PST by Timaeus (Willard Mitt Romney Delenda Est)
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To: Sudetenland
Bain was not a venture capital firm. It mostly did LBO's.
17 posted on 01/11/2012 8:04:13 AM PST by RoosterRedux
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To: Vigilanteman

I’m not sure most people will recognize your post as sarcasm.


18 posted on 01/11/2012 8:05:33 AM PST by flintsilver7 (Honest reporting hasn't caught on in the United States.)
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To: Reagan69
Grow up and stop attacking people for being conservative. Romney's record as a capitalist is excellent. There is a lot to attack in Romney, but this is not one of them and you show your true colors by doing so.

You are one of those idiot who would rather see Obama repeat than Romney win. So much for your "Reagan69" nickname. You think Reagan would support Obama over Mitt? YOu thing Reagan wouldn't support Mitt if he winds up being the candidate? You think Reagan would attack Mitt for being a venture capitalist?

If you do, then you know nothing about Reagan, nor of being a conservative.
19 posted on 01/11/2012 8:05:33 AM PST by Sudetenland (Anybody but Obama!!!!)
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To: Timaeus

“I call you out for being pro-Romney as you imitate Romney’s own conflation of capitalism with the anti-capitalist activities of Bain Capital with “capitalism”.”

Yes, we all know that taking advantage of ‘good marketing’ and ‘cheap financing’, or (G*d forbid!) firing people, is something that Hayek and Friedman would have been dead set against.

...

Oh, wait.

This bull simply has to stop - or Socialism will indeed be the law of the future, not because of Obama, but thanks to the blindness of those ‘conservatives’ who will reach for any weapon at hand.


20 posted on 01/11/2012 8:06:15 AM PST by globelamp
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To: Thane_Banquo

Most REAL venture capital firms finance entrepreneurs who are starting brand-new companies, or are expanding them in subsequent rounds prior to entering the public market or being acquired by a larger firm. VC firms, for example, helped build the biotech, Internet, and software industries. I am highly supportive of real VC firms.

Leveraged buyout firms, and corporate raiders like Carl Icahn, are something else entirely. When they call themselves “VC firms”, they are just obfuscating what they really are. I do not support them at all.

Bain Capital, as I said before, started out as a real VC firm, and then morphed into a LBO firm. So they—and Romney—can obfuscate even better than most LBO firms!!!


21 posted on 01/11/2012 8:06:49 AM PST by Honorary Serb (Kosovo is Serbia! Free Srpska! Abolish ICTY!)
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To: Daveinyork

Romney practiced Crony Capitalism, the kind that privatizes gains while socializing the losses.


22 posted on 01/11/2012 8:06:56 AM PST by dfwgator (Don't wake up in a roadside ditch. Get rid of Romney.)
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To: Comrade Brother Abu Bubba; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; stephenjohnbanker; DoughtyOne; calcowgirl; ..
RE :”opponents are lining up to attack him over his time as head of Bain Capital, in case you haven’t heard. They’re going to accuse him of bankrupting companies, throwing people out of work, and generally behaving like Gordon Gekko, the amoral Michael Douglas character from the flick “Wall Street.” “Greed is good” “If he ends up looking more like an opportunist who profited for the few, instead of a man who created jobs for the many, it’s hard to imagine his poll numbers won’t drop,” write Politico’s Reid Epstein and Jim VandeHei.

Will these Democrat OWS type points (’Greed’,’Getting rich’ ) resonate with Republican primary voters or will they backfire? It seems to me that the specific points made on this sound just like what anyone can hear on MSNBC very-night. I hope the other candidates don't start bragging that they are part of the other 99%ers

Alternatively since Romney is bragging about creating jobs in the private sector any job destruction he was involved with is relevant to this debate.

23 posted on 01/11/2012 8:07:10 AM PST by sickoflibs (You MUST support the lesser of two RINOs or we all die!)
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To: TexasFreeper2009
"""Romney used Bain to raid workers pension funds then stuck the government (US taxpayers) with the bill. If criticism of that is anti-capitalist then I guess I am not a capitalist.""

Are we the only two that see that? Yet they will criticize Newt for EARNING a fee? Talk about double standards.

Go Newt

24 posted on 01/11/2012 8:07:29 AM PST by annieokie
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To: Comrade Brother Abu Bubba

A conservative would need to split hairs to side with Romney on this one issue. Why do so when that is the only history of Romney that they can agree with him about?

Especially considering Romney is looking to stick a knife in all our backs.

To Hell with Romney and the horse he rode in on!


25 posted on 01/11/2012 8:07:32 AM PST by Berlin_Freeper
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To: sickoflibs

Sarah Palin herself railed against the very kind of Crony Capitalism that Bain exemplified.


26 posted on 01/11/2012 8:08:30 AM PST by dfwgator (Don't wake up in a roadside ditch. Get rid of Romney.)
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To: Sudetenland

so you think raiding compainies pension plans and sticking the US taxpayers with the bill is a good thing?


27 posted on 01/11/2012 8:08:47 AM PST by TexasFreeper2009 (Go Newt!)
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To: RoosterRedux
Doesn't matter. It did far more good than harm--though that's beside the point.

I believe in liberty. I believe in freedom. I believe in opportunity. I believe in capitalism and the right of people to do as they will with it as long as it is within the law. I love that people make profits off of dying businesses. I believe that businesses must fail if they are weak so that others may thrive.

I do not believe it is good or honorable to attack those who practice free enterprise solely for political gain.

Time to stop behaving like spoiled children and start acting as adults. Mitt sucks, but he is not evil, he is not dangerous, and he is not worse than Obama.
28 posted on 01/11/2012 8:10:09 AM PST by Sudetenland (Anybody but Obama!!!!)
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To: magritte
Mitt Romney is not now nor ever has been a Conservative or a Capitalist. He is at best a Country Club, Rockefeller Republican who is a Crony Capitalist and Corporatist. He has a long history of reeking ruin on formerly successful companies that had over funded pension and benefit plans and assets that outpaced their earnings. He did a great deal of corporate destruction for personal gain and sought and received millions in Federal financed loans, aid, and bail outs.

He time and again used foreign money to take over small and medium sized private and public companies with the sole interest in breaking up them and pocketing the spoils. He left many workers unemployed and often stuck the Federal Government (IE: You & Me) to pay the pensions and benefits of former workers. None of it was illegal, but much of it was distasteful.

He is a failed Governor who although elected as a Republican was lead by the uber leftist state house and passed dozens of tax increases and leftest policies including the most expensive and radical medical plan in the history of the United States. He is a consistent Pro-Abortionist Republican that appointed dozens of far left judges and approved tax payer money to pay for abortion services. He not only consistently supported abortion services, he also PERSONALY donated to Planned Parenthood as recently as only five years ago. HE GAVE HIS OWN MONEY TO PLANNED PARENTHOOD.

The idea that an true Conservative or even Moderate Republican would cast a vote for this loser is unbelievable.

He may be inevitable, but he is the least electable in the field, including the geriatric nut job, Ron Paul. I fear that if he garners the nomination he will not only lose but splinter the Republican Party.

29 posted on 01/11/2012 8:10:49 AM PST by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
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To: dfwgator
RE :"Sarah Palin herself railed against the very kind of Crony Capitalism that Bain exemplified.

Who??

30 posted on 01/11/2012 8:11:10 AM PST by sickoflibs (You MUST support the lesser of two RINOs or we all die!)
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To: Sudetenland

I get that people don’t like or want Romney to win the nomination. I get it - I really do. But some of the hatred is so over the top. Worse than the libs’ BDS and PDS. I’m in the Perry camp through SC, though I’m disappointed in his attack on venture capitalism. After that, I’m on the ABO bandwagon. Perry is pro life, pro God, pro guns, pro country - served his country, created jobs in Texas. When he first jumped in I thought he was the ideal candidate - still he wasn’t good enough and the other candidates tore him down on day one. So now we’re stuck with Romney. Perry supporters said this would happen.


31 posted on 01/11/2012 8:14:08 AM PST by jersey117 (.)
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To: Comrade Brother Abu Bubba

I would urge EVERYONE (especially you Romney supporters AND those that have gone off the deep end thinking that Newt is attacking Capitalism) to watch the video at the bottom of this page:
http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/01/selling-out-capitalism-in-the-defense-of-romney-and-bain/

This is ONLY ONE of the troublesome Bain issues that MUST be vetted NOW. If we don’t do it now, you know that it will ALL come out later!


32 posted on 01/11/2012 8:15:24 AM PST by georgiagirl_pam
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To: dfwgator

How did he socialize the losses?


33 posted on 01/11/2012 8:15:40 AM PST by Daveinyork
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To: georgiagirl_pam

Forgot to say, watch for the question at the end from Mark Halprin.


34 posted on 01/11/2012 8:16:25 AM PST by georgiagirl_pam
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To: Honorary Serb

Agreed. There is such a thing as true venture capital, and it is based on the whole in financing needs for small-to-medium sized businesses that are not yet prepared to go public. I guess I should use the term private equity firms instead, because there used to be a distinction.


35 posted on 01/11/2012 8:17:38 AM PST by Thane_Banquo
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To: Jim from C-Town

Attacking Bain Capital is a ridiculous angle to take on Romney. He’s got PLENTY of bad points, but the Pitchfork Pat anti-capitalism populist baloney is going to kill us. Even my guy Perry jumped on it, and I sent his campaign a strong worded “What a stupid attack” email.


36 posted on 01/11/2012 8:19:18 AM PST by magritte
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To: Sudetenland; Timaeus
Please see post 21. I used the venture capital term loosely, based on its common usage today. There is a difference between true venture capital and LBO private equity, though today the private equity guys market themselves as the same as venture capital. Romney wasn't a true venture capital guy in the real sense of providing mezzanine financing for small-to-medium size, high-growth firms that were not yet ready to go public. That kind of service is very valuable in financial markets. Romney was the kind of guy who took advantage of government intrusion in the form of Alan Greenspan.
37 posted on 01/11/2012 8:21:10 AM PST by Thane_Banquo
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To: Daveinyork
How did he socialize the losses?

When taxpayers picked up the tab for the underfunded pensions.

38 posted on 01/11/2012 8:22:45 AM PST by dfwgator (Don't wake up in a roadside ditch. Get rid of Romney.)
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To: jersey117

Yep, we sure did. Perry’s stumbles in the debate, and the endless attacks by other conservatives who had their own worshiped candidate took him from being the one real conservative opponent who would have crushed Mitt, to a peripheral soon to be out of it candidate and assured Mitt’s ascension.


39 posted on 01/11/2012 8:23:16 AM PST by Sudetenland (Anybody but Obama!!!!)
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To: Thane_Banquo

You’re wasting your time. This forum has been infiltrated by a bunch a sheep who don’t have five minutes to read or listen to the facts. They assume what they want to assume.

Romney has much to explain. For example, what exactly was he doing in France? Shouldn’t we ask? How many Catholics did he convert to the Mormon faith?

The idea that he was this great jobs producer like Sam Walton is a joke.

In one paragraph you size up exactly what needs to come out. These vulture capitalists raided these companies, drew as much money as they could from pensions and borrowing... then putting them for sale on the stock exchange...where they cashed in again...only to let the company declare bankruptcy...in the end.

Who wins? Bain not the workers.

Sorry, I ain’t buying this. Romney is not the man.

PS-Why isn’t Romney showing his tax returns?


40 posted on 01/11/2012 8:28:23 AM PST by nikos1121
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To: magritte
There is a difference between being a Capitalist and being a Corporatist, Crony Capitalist. Romney is and always has been an ANTI-CAPITALIST Corporate Raider hellbent on maximum personal gain at the expense of small and mid size companies. The fact is that his activities at Bain ARE going to be exposed in the full light of day. He WILL be taken to task. Better to do so now while there is still time to get a more conservative Republican nominated.

Obama ALREADY knows all about Romney. Why do you think they have consistently talked him up and desire so greatly to run against him?

41 posted on 01/11/2012 8:28:23 AM PST by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
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To: dfwgator; Daveinyork
How did he socialize the losses?

When taxpayers picked up the tab for the underfunded pensions.

As in Bail out??

42 posted on 01/11/2012 8:30:34 AM PST by Jane Long (Soli Deo Gloria!)
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To: Sudetenland

Let’s see, Perry, Santorum, Newt, Paul, Huntsman... I guess they’re all wrong... So let’s just give Romney a pass. Don’t ask him to explain anything. Don’t ask to see his tax returns.

The guy is a phony. And if you don’t want to bring it up, I will, he speaks for his religion. ASk him what parts of the Mormon faith does he disagree with. That will be telling.

But, no we have to accept mediocrity again in a candidate.


43 posted on 01/11/2012 8:32:45 AM PST by nikos1121
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To: jersey117
Unfortunately, Perry tore himself down on day one and only exacerbated the problem at every opportunity since. I too expected Perry to walk away with the nomination until he opened up his mouth.It is a shame.
44 posted on 01/11/2012 8:33:12 AM PST by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
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To: Jane Long

Underfunded by whose standards?


45 posted on 01/11/2012 8:35:21 AM PST by Daveinyork
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To: Sudetenland

How do you know that? How can you be sure? I for one don’t know that to be true. I think Romney is hiding something. The man is a liar and was a second rate liberal governor.

He’ll be a second rate president as well.

At the very least you and people like Wind Bag Rush need to listen to the facts first before going off half cocked on your opinions.


46 posted on 01/11/2012 8:35:39 AM PST by nikos1121
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To: Honorary Serb

You’re exactly right, but try to get the people on this forum to understand that. They’re equating venture capitalists with Romney at Bain as a leverage buy out firm.

This guy was Gordon Gecko, pure and simple. If he has nothing to hide then let’s see the transactions that occurred. Let’s see the track record and talk to the people who owned and worked at these companies.


47 posted on 01/11/2012 8:38:26 AM PST by nikos1121
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To: Timaeus

You’re wasting your time talking to this moron.


48 posted on 01/11/2012 8:41:17 AM PST by nikos1121
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To: dfwgator

You know what cracks me up as being so hypocritical is to listen to Ann Coulter talk about the democrats doing exactly what Bain did when loans to Mexico went under.

At Bain they raided pensions and let the gov’t pay the workers off in the end.


49 posted on 01/11/2012 8:44:48 AM PST by nikos1121
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To: magritte

I think I’ve heard enough from you. It explains why our party is lost in the wilderness.


50 posted on 01/11/2012 8:48:58 AM PST by nikos1121
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