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Gingrich is a hero for arguing for “ethical capitalism”
Hotair ^ | 12-13-12 | KRISEN POWERS

Posted on 01/13/2012 6:14:08 PM PST by VinL

Furthermore, making a profit is only one component of owning a business. Whatever happened to the idea that you are responsible for your workers and to the larger community? Too often, people feel like just pawns in a ‘game’ of ever increasing largesse for the top dogs. The big shots are always the winners – often getting payouts in the millions when their companies fail — and the “losers” are left to figure out how to eat or buy clothes for their children. (A new study found that $100 million “golden parachutes” have become commonplace for failed CEOs).

Romney’s “class envy” claim is predicated on a lie we often here from the uber-rich and their defenders: the highest goal and achievement for Americans is to be wealthy, when all most people want is to be able to provide a decent lives for their families…

The unlikely hero in this tale has been Newt Gingrich, who has been making the most coherent argument for ethical capitalism. Says Gingrich, what we want is, “a free enterprise system that is honest. . . fair to everyone and gives everyone an equal opportunity to pursue happiness.” Criticizing Romney’s brand of free enterprise, (Newt)said, “It’s not fine if the person who is rich manipulates the system, gets away with all the cash and leaves behind the human beings.”

Be still my heart.

(Excerpt) Read more at hotair.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: gingrich
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To: SJSAMPLE

Pure bullshit.
You put ANYTHING in front of Capitalism, and it isn’t Capitalism.

**************
I understand. Like GM, AIG, and trillions to the bankrupt banks. Got it. Thanks.


151 posted on 01/13/2012 8:16:54 PM PST by VinL (It is better to suffer every wrong, than to consent to wrong.)
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To: fightinJAG

Actually, I think you’re right, Jag. I think the PAc might “edit”, but I’m sure Newt intends to continue attacking Romney.

But, at the same time, Newt has offered to “disarm” if Romney will do likewise— but Romney has a ton of money, and doesn’t seem to want to give up the advantage.


152 posted on 01/13/2012 8:21:39 PM PST by VinL (It is better to suffer every wrong, than to consent to wrong.)
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To: P-Marlowe
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Newt just following Perry's lead on this topic?

I don't know who was the first to start with this attack on capitalism, but I'm disgusted with both of them.

And don't you think that professional Capitalists should held to certain professional ethical standards?

Why should a successful businessman be held to any different standard. Why does anyone presume that they have a right to the businessman's success. The law should be applied equally.

This is about corporate piracy and legal loopholes unavailable to most non-professional investors.

No it's not. Gingrich didn't like how he was treated in IA and he's retaliating by attacking the very system that allowed the greatest movement of individuals from lower income brackets to higher income brackets in the history of man. If Bain did anything illegal Romney would have been indicted.

153 posted on 01/13/2012 8:23:02 PM PST by wmfights (PERRY 2012)
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To: exit82

Exit, I don’t think you’re going to get many answers on that one. -:) Obviously, I agree with your point about being “told” who our nominee has to be.


154 posted on 01/13/2012 8:23:56 PM PST by VinL (It is better to suffer every wrong, than to consent to wrong.)
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To: Revolting cat!
And MF Global? (By the way, do you know what the ‘MF’ stood for among that company’s insiders?)

An unspeakable act by Governor Jon Corzine, crony capitalist extraordinaire?

Actually, it stands for Man Financial (after James Man, who founded the original company in 1783), from which MF Global was spun off.

155 posted on 01/13/2012 8:24:06 PM PST by cynwoody
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To: VinL

What you have described has nothing to do with and relates in no way to capitalism.


156 posted on 01/13/2012 8:28:02 PM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: wmfights; xzins
The law should be applied equally.

When has that ever happened?

Can you name one law that is applied equally across the board to everyone?

If Bain did anything illegal Romney would have been indicted.

And if they did a lot of things that were very unethical but still legal, that is just fine with you?

Don't you think that the laws should be changed to make it harder for corporate raiders to screw their debtors?

Or is that ok as well?

157 posted on 01/13/2012 8:29:34 PM PST by P-Marlowe (Romney. The poster boy for Corporate Welfare and Vulture Capitalism.)
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To: livius
I think (Mittens) Romney was hoping that people would somehow confuse him with his father, George Romney

Who is most famous for being brainwashed.

158 posted on 01/13/2012 8:30:41 PM PST by cynwoody
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To: VinL
KIRSTEN POWERS is defending Newt. Now that is rich. Here are some of her other political positions:

Powers supported the Obama health care reform, and believes it is a moral imperative to supply health care to all Americans.

Powers supports comprehensive immigration reform and providing a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants, favors gun control, and supports equal rights for gay people in the form of universal civil unions, leaving marriage strictly as a religious institution.

She opposes "don't ask, don't tell." and supports closing Guantanamo Bay and putting prisoners in federal prisons.

She opposes the Iraq war, as well as the Fairness Doctrine, and a constitutional amendment to ban flag burning.

She supports a strong separation of church and state.

She also opposes the death penalty.

She supports the right of countries to choose their own governments free of outside influence but is against the establishment of theocracies. Powers has a particular concern over the influence of Islamists in Egypt due to her husband being of Coptic Egyptian origin.

159 posted on 01/13/2012 8:31:43 PM PST by kabar
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To: nicmarlo

I shall offer another.

What’s mine is mine unless I love you enough to share it with you, then what’s mine is yours, but not until then.


160 posted on 01/13/2012 8:33:03 PM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: wmfights

It’s got nothing to do about crony capitalism
****************

Respectfully, you’re in error. It’s all about “crony capitalism” or as your brave Mr. Perry terms it- “vulture capitalism”— Newt and Rick have both finally realized that the GOP Establishment, stereotyped as the party of the rich, decided in their infinite wisdom to nominate the quintessential country club, multi millionaire elite candidate conceivable.

This is typical of the arrogance and blind spot of the Establishment GOP-— in the face of a Depression and 9% unemployment, the GOP is going to run one of the richest, most privileged men ever to run for the office. Brilliant!


161 posted on 01/13/2012 8:33:14 PM PST by VinL (It is better to suffer every wrong, than to consent to wrong.)
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To: Yashcheritsiy

Thank God!! I started to wonder after you started quoting from a video game. Some of the stuff you where saying would almost get you hung from a lamp post in any nation on earth.... minus maybe England in the days of Oliver Twist.

Good Job with the Satire :)


162 posted on 01/13/2012 8:33:58 PM PST by WyvernAK (Knowledge is Power, ie Obama is in trouble)
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To: Yashcheritsiy

Thank God!! I started to wonder after you started quoting from a video game. Some of the stuff you where saying would almost get you hung from a lamp post in any nation on earth.... minus maybe England in the days of Oliver Twist.

Good Job with the Satire :)


163 posted on 01/13/2012 8:34:15 PM PST by WyvernAK (Knowledge is Power, ie Obama is in trouble)
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To: P-Marlowe; xzins; betty boop; Alamo-Girl
Do you think xzins and I are making these arguments because we are envious of corporate pirates like Romney?????????????????

No. I think you are both highly motivated by your support for Newt and great desire to see that Romney does not get the nomination. However, these spurious arguments get a lot of traction because people are so envious of those that have more. Also, look at the loaded words that keep getting thrown around, "corporate pirates", "looting", "unethical capitalism".

If Romney broke any laws why hasn't he been indicted?

...I do begrudge the unethical manner in which he made his fortune.

This term "ethics" is getting thrown around a lot but it really is in the eye of the beholder. Why is it unethical to leverage a business and take out your initial investment?

164 posted on 01/13/2012 8:36:38 PM PST by wmfights (PERRY 2012)
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To: Signalman

Powers is a diehard liberal. She’s rooting for Gingrich. Was does that tell you?
****************

She’s hot for him? -:)

Actually, she’s not rooting for Newt- she telling the truth— that the GOP Establishment cannot say Newt is destroying capitalism, when the GOP does not practice capitalism- it practices socialism for the rich.

And what does it tell you that EVERY GOP Establishment politician and commentator is against Newt? I know why. They can control Romney, they can’t control Newt. When Newt says he’ll change DC and audit the FED, he will-— That’s something the Establishment can not abide.


165 posted on 01/13/2012 8:44:44 PM PST by VinL (It is better to suffer every wrong, than to consent to wrong.)
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To: kabar
Kirsten also has inside information on the dimensions of at least one Democrat legislative package: that of Anthony Weiner.
166 posted on 01/13/2012 8:47:59 PM PST by cynwoody
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To: CainConservative

“Michelle Malkin was a cheap shill for Willard the Lib in ‘08, too. She’s 110% RINO.”

Michelle a RINO???? People like you sound just like DU’ers! Geez the RDS on FR is just as bad as any BDS.


167 posted on 01/13/2012 8:50:50 PM PST by willk
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To: P-Marlowe; xzins
And if they did a lot of things that were very unethical but still legal, that is just fine with you?

Boy that term "unethical" gets thrown around with no real definition.

A businessman does not "owe" anyone a job. A businessman does not "owe" a community to keep his business there. A businessman does have an obligation to pay workers what they agreed on. A businessman does have an obligation to pay his taxes to the community.

If a business fails the bondholders have a right to the assets and if any banks made non-recourse loans they knew the risk when they made the loans.

168 posted on 01/13/2012 8:51:03 PM PST by wmfights (PERRY 2012)
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To: wmfights; xzins
Why is it unethical to leverage a business and take out your initial investment?

Maybe you haven't been reading what happened with some of Romney's "investments". He didn't just take out his initial investment. While he was running the "investment" he was borrowing money against the company in order to pay himself and his company dividends. Thus when the company went belly up, he walked away literally with millions of dollars in paid dividends immune from collection by the bankruptcy court.

Frankly I had no idea that companies could borrow money when they are losing money in order to pay their shell company shareholders dividends. Did you know that this is a practice of companies like Bain? They buy a fledgling company, bleed the company of all its assets, leave a big debt and then go into bankruptcy and are protected from having any Bain or personal assets taken because of corporate loopholes written by politicians who are recipients of their ill gotten loot.

All the benefits with none of the risks. Is this your idea of a working Capitalist system? If everyone ran their businesses in this way, every corporation would end up bankrupt and all their executives would be billionaires.

169 posted on 01/13/2012 8:51:42 PM PST by P-Marlowe (Romney. The poster boy for Corporate Welfare and Vulture Capitalism.)
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To: chris37

I don’t understand, Chris. Then, what does it relate to?


170 posted on 01/13/2012 8:53:44 PM PST by VinL (It is better to suffer every wrong, than to consent to wrong.)
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To: VinL
...Newt and Rick have both finally realized that the GOP Establishment, stereotyped as the party of the rich, decided in their infinite wisdom to nominate the quintessential country club, multi millionaire elite candidate conceivable.

And this stupid attack on venture capitalists is going to backfire.

171 posted on 01/13/2012 8:54:29 PM PST by wmfights (PERRY 2012)
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To: kabar

KIRSTEN POWERS is defending Newt. Now that is rich. Here are some of her other political positions
******************

Well, she finally got one right.


172 posted on 01/13/2012 8:55:39 PM PST by VinL (It is better to suffer every wrong, than to consent to wrong.)
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To: printhead

we agree


173 posted on 01/13/2012 8:59:24 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Hoodat; firefox
The only problem with your assessment is that the ads against Newt were true. The same cannot be said about the anti-Bain video.

GONG!

No less than the liberal rag, Washington Post, gave Romney's most vicious attack ad, 4 Pinocchio's!

All four attacks were lies!

174 posted on 01/13/2012 9:00:38 PM PST by onyx (PLEASE SUPPORT FREE REPUBLIC - DONATE MONTHLY! If you want on Sarah Palin's Ping List, let me know!)
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To: VinL
Well, she finally got one right.

Well, if you read everything she said it appears that she got it right... but for the wrong reasons.

175 posted on 01/13/2012 9:00:45 PM PST by P-Marlowe (Romney. The poster boy for Corporate Welfare and Vulture Capitalism.)
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To: P-Marlowe
Maybe you haven't been reading what happened with some of Romney's "investments". He didn't just take out his initial investment. While he was running the "investment" he was borrowing money against the company in order to pay himself and his company dividends. Thus when the company went belly up, he walked away literally with millions of dollars in paid dividends immune from collection by the bankruptcy court.

Can you be more specific and give us the details of when this happened, the name of the company, who loaned them the money, etc.

You do realize that when Bain Capital bought companies, they put a certain sum down and borrowed the rest, usually a lot more than the downpayment. If the company borrowed money, it must have come from a bank or someone who loaned the money to the company based on doing due dilligence about the company. The loaner was taking a risk. Why would they do that if the company was going belly up? If the company went bankrupt, then what happened to Bain's investment, i.e., the downpayment and the loan to purchase the company? Wasn't Bain on the hook since it owned the company?

If this is so easy to do, why isn't everyone doing it? I assume it is all legal. And wouldn't Bain make more money if it could make the company profitable and grow the business and then sell it?

176 posted on 01/13/2012 9:05:35 PM PST by kabar
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To: P-Marlowe; xzins
He didn't just take out his initial investment. While he was running the "investment" he was borrowing money against the company in order to pay himself and his company dividends. Thus when the company went belly up, he walked away literally with millions of dollars in paid dividends immune from collection by the bankruptcy court.

Okay why are we beating up on Romney? He paid himself and pulled dividends. The money he borrowed was either on bond sales or loans from banks. Did he lie on any financial statements? He didn't, or he would have been indicted. Were the loans from banks non-recourse? If so the due diligence should have been very tight.

Frankly I had no idea that companies could borrow money when they are losing money in order to pay their shell company shareholders dividends.

Bankers make dumb loans all the time.

They buy a fledgling company, bleed the company of all its assets, leave a big debt and then go into bankruptcy and are protected from having any Bain or personal assets taken because of corporate loopholes written by politicians who are recipients of their ill gotten loot.

Boy is that a loaded question.

Got to go to bed. We can argue some more tomorrow. :-)

177 posted on 01/13/2012 9:06:22 PM PST by wmfights (PERRY 2012)
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To: VinL

Yeah right.


178 posted on 01/13/2012 9:07:28 PM PST by kabar
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To: VinL

Corruption and greed.


179 posted on 01/13/2012 9:16:11 PM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: P-Marlowe

That would be a total different thing, the tarp bailout was supported by Newt, and Willard. But the story is not about Tarp.


180 posted on 01/13/2012 9:16:20 PM PST by org.whodat (What is the difference in Newt's, Perry's and Willard's positions on Amnesty.)
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To: P-Marlowe
While he was running the "investment" he was borrowing money against the company in order to pay himself and his company dividends. Thus when the company went belly up, he walked away literally with millions of dollars in paid dividends immune from collection by the bankruptcy court.

BS. This charge is repeated in the video. Yet no creditor is ever named in any of these cases.

First of all, if such a creditor existed, then they would be first in line during any subsequent bankruptcy. Second, if a creditor got burned like this, then no one else would ever step forward to lend a Bain firm any money. And third, by its very nature, Bain Capital is the company putting up the money. Hence the word 'Capital'. Get it?

There is no substance to this lie. None. Zip. Nada. Not only that, it doesn't even make sense. So put it to rest.

181 posted on 01/13/2012 9:16:26 PM PST by Hoodat (Because they do not change, Therefore they do not fear God. -Psalm 55:19-)
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To: plain talk
Is Romneys tax returns conservatives' problem?

Of $1.6 Newt netted ~ $100K from one of his businesses, and was scoured for it.
Why not vet Mitt on his net profits.

182 posted on 01/13/2012 9:17:32 PM PST by duckln
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To: onyx

I was referring to the $1.6 million that he received from FNMA. Did that not occur?


183 posted on 01/13/2012 9:21:25 PM PST by Hoodat (Because they do not change, Therefore they do not fear God. -Psalm 55:19-)
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To: livius
Pension funds cannot be stripped from a company, why don't you try reading about the pension fund guaranty department. In this case, the fund shortage, probably occurred prior to the purchase, in which case the buyer would not have been liable, since the government run pension guaranty fund was suppose to make sure payments were always current. I have never brothered to read the actual financial statements of the time, but that is probably what happened.
184 posted on 01/13/2012 9:26:15 PM PST by org.whodat (What is the difference in Newt's, Perry's and Willard's positions on Amnesty.)
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To: kabar
Can you be more specific and give us the details of when this happened, the name of the company, who loaned them the money, etc. . . .
Wasn't Bain on the hook since it owned the company? If this is so easy to do, why isn't everyone doing it? I assume it is all legal. And wouldn't Bain make more money if it could make the company profitable and grow the business and then sell it?

Sorry, there is no room for logic on this thread.

185 posted on 01/13/2012 9:26:49 PM PST by Hoodat (Because they do not change, Therefore they do not fear God. -Psalm 55:19-)
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To: chris37

Corruption and greed.
******************

If you’re saying there is nothing wrong with capitalism excpt that it has become corupted, I agree with you completely- so does Newt. That’s what he is saying.


186 posted on 01/13/2012 9:31:46 PM PST by VinL (It is better to suffer every wrong, than to consent to wrong.)
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To: org.whodat
Yes, the department of fair marketa

Please, pretty please show me where Newt is advocating that?

Or, is he saying perhaps the character of Romney is what's under the microscope here - character being how you act when no one is forcing you to take either position? Romney's Bain Capital bought companies, issued debt (some would argue while covering up major business risks), used the debt to buy it and its investors out of the acquired company and pay itself lots of fees, then moved on. Too often, the acquired company then folded like a house of cards under the debt load.

Legal? Unless fraud was involved, sure. Moral? If you advocate a beggar-thy-neighbor approach to life, or fall into the atheist Ayn Rand camp, or like to parrot the "it's capitalism, trust us" message of the folks who made their bank this way, sure.

But if you expect the people adversely impacted by this to nod sagely and say, "no worries, Bro, this sort of thing happens in capitalism, and we hope Romney enjoys his nine-figure fortune", well, you're a bloody idiot.

Let me put it another way. Obama was a community organizer - a legal advocation - involved with assembling a constituency to petition for a redress of grievances - Constitutional even! How he did it, why he thought those folks deserved it, and the outcomes he achieved are all highly questionable. Obama got serious power as a result, and I didn't want that type of guy in White House. I don't want the type of guy Romney is in the White House, either.

187 posted on 01/13/2012 9:40:02 PM PST by Liberty Tree Surgeon (Mow your own lawn!)
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To: VinL
Gingrich-Santorum
 
or
 
Santorum-Gingrich

188 posted on 01/13/2012 9:41:38 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: chris37; All

you ask: “Is there something unethical about capitalism such that it needs to be qualified by the word ethical?”

I ask you: “Is Crony Capitalism ethical?

Ever read this?

http://www.amazon.com/Capitalism-Ideal-Ayn-Rand/dp/0451147952/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1326518960&sr=8-11


189 posted on 01/13/2012 9:44:22 PM PST by maine-iac7 (A prudent man foreseeth the evil,... but the simple pass on, and are punished. Prov 23:3 KJV)
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To: VinL

Corruption and greed are characteristics of man, not of capitalism.

What he is saying is nonsense, and he knows it. Newt himself is now unethical for intentionally misframing this argument.

Capitalism is what it always was, the tool that drives the freedom of america. It is neutral. We have changed, and to our detriment.

You should have read my other post before you tried to categorize me into agreeing with your candidate, because I do not, nor does Newt agree with me.

This is going to blow up in his face, and it should blow up in his face. We do not need “ethical capitalism” we need ethical leaders, and Newt just proved that he is not one of those.


190 posted on 01/13/2012 9:44:39 PM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: maine-iac7

Only man can be ethical or unethical. Capitalism cannot choose between right and wrong, we can, and we have failed.


191 posted on 01/13/2012 9:48:40 PM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: Major Matt Mason

Could you destroy a company, lay off 1,000 people, and walk away with $100 million for yourself and your partners? Would you do that? If not, why not? If you would, should you expect those 1,000 folks to vote for you later?

If you expect those folks to vote for you later, do you acknowledge perhaps that you don’t have a firm grasp of reality?

Or, in your mind, do the laid off works disappear in a puff of inky black smoke, never to trouble this world again? I bet Romney REALLY wishes that was the case now that he’s trying to win the nomination.


192 posted on 01/13/2012 9:50:37 PM PST by Liberty Tree Surgeon (Mow your own lawn!)
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To: Yashcheritsiy
Only the business owner matters - if you think anyone else does, then you’re a stinking commie lib!

And if the business owner wants to be clean before The LORD, have a clear conscience and truly be happy he needs to treat others decently including his workers.

193 posted on 01/13/2012 9:52:54 PM PST by Bellflower
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To: Liberty Tree Surgeon
If you do not like the rules of capitalism and the way the game is played you can change the rules and if you change the rules you need a department to make sure the new rules are enforced. And it does not have anything to do with obummer, unless you agree he does not like capitalism either. In which case you would be agreeing with him. Your statement is as bad as the ones that think the Willard company and the BS of TARP are the same. And confuse the actions of the pension guaranty insurance with a bail out.
194 posted on 01/13/2012 9:53:32 PM PST by org.whodat (What is the difference in Newt's, Perry's and Willard's positions on Amnesty.)
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To: VinL
I agree with this 100%. Gingrich's point is drawn most poignantly in the film It's a Wonderful Life. There's absolutely nothing good about capitalism unfettered by ethics. And that's what Mitt Romney practices.

Unsurprisingly, he also practices politics unfettered by ethics.
195 posted on 01/13/2012 9:56:10 PM PST by Antoninus (Mitt Romney -- attempting to execute a hostile take-over of the Republican Party.)
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To: JimSEA
If you break no laws and make a profit for your shareholders that’s all you need.

If you think that, you're nothing but a caricature of a business owner. People who think like that give the left all the ammunition they need to take us all down.
196 posted on 01/13/2012 10:02:17 PM PST by Antoninus (Mitt Romney -- attempting to execute a hostile take-over of the Republican Party.)
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To: chris37

Chris, respectfully, your argument is incoherent. Capitalism does not exist without participants. It’s like saying there’s nothing wrong with the game of basketball, it’s the players that screw it up. Well, how can there be basketball without players?

I’m not trying to force any argument on you. Newt is saying that capitalism has been corrupted by a variety of vested interests and those vested interests destroy free markets.

Now, if you disagree with that-its fine. But, if you think “capitalism” exists in present day American, I’m afraid I think you’re mistaken. We are a nanny state socialist nation.


197 posted on 01/13/2012 10:07:04 PM PST by VinL (It is better to suffer every wrong, than to consent to wrong.)
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To: reasonisfaith
Not capitalism alone—capitalism along with Christianity.

Yup. Not a single one of the dopes commenting on this thread has read D'Tocqueville, I'll wager.

Capitalism tempered by Christianity is what made America great. Capitalism with no ethical temper at all leads only one place--communism. We're on our way to being another case study to prove that theory here in the US.
198 posted on 01/13/2012 10:09:08 PM PST by Antoninus (Mitt Romney -- attempting to execute a hostile take-over of the Republican Party.)
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To: Yashcheritsiy
LOL, actually I agree with you guys, I’m just jerking your chains while trying to spoof the anarcho-libertarian strain that seems to be present on FR to some degree.

Nicely done. You did a splendid impression of a brainless libertarian money-worshiping sociopath. I wish I wasn't so easily fooled because of how often such types show up on FR these days.
199 posted on 01/13/2012 10:14:32 PM PST by Antoninus (Mitt Romney -- attempting to execute a hostile take-over of the Republican Party.)
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To: chris37

I understand that thinking; however, a Christian is to love his neighbor as himself. In James we read that a Christian is know by how he acts. Therefore, a good man, and a greedy man, will also be known by how he acts, as well.


200 posted on 01/13/2012 10:18:47 PM PST by nicmarlo
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