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Posted on 01/17/2012 7:55:23 AM PST by NCjim
DURHAM — Echoing the concerns of black undergraduates at Duke University, some African-American alumni of the school have expressed outrage over a report that black students there are disproportionally more likely to switch from tough majors to easier ones.
“We are deeply troubled and offended by the recent study emanating from faculty members at our alma mater,” 17 black alumni wrote in a letter to The Herald-Sun.
The alumni, including those who received master’s and doctoral degrees at the school, called the unpublished study by Duke faculty members “misguided scholarship” whose results and methodology are “both flawed and incorrect” and based on “problematic premises [that result in] problematic conclusions.”
“We cannot sit idly by and allow this slander to be (mis)labeled as truth,” the alumni wrote.
The paper, “What Happens After Enrollment: An Analysis of the Time Path of Racial Differences in GPA and Major Choice,” looked at two Duke freshman classes in their first, second and fourth years of college.
It found that among students who initially expressed an interest in majoring in economics, engineering and the natural sciences, a significantly greater percentage of black students ended up switching their majors to the humanities or another social science.
The authors of the paper suggested that the switch to what are considered easier, less rigorous majors was predominantly responsible for why the grade-point averages of black undergraduates ultimately mirrored the GPAs of white students as they progressed through school.
The paper’s authors — professors Peter Arcidiacono and Kenneth Spencer, and graduate student Esteban Aucejo — argue that their work calls into question other studies that play down the academic difficulties initially experienced by those who benefit from race-conscious admission policies.
The paper is included in a brief submitted to the U.S. Supreme Court by opponents of affirmative action. The court is considering whether to hear a lawsuit challenging race-conscious admissions the university of Texas.
News of the paper drew angry responses from members of Duke’s Black Student Alliance.
In an email sent to the state chapter of the NAACP, officers of the alliance wrote that “the implications and intentions of this research … are hurtful and alienating,” and questioned both the scholarship and why the university administration had done nothing to ameliorate any possible effects of what the researchers had noted.
About three dozen members of the alliance, including a few white students, silently protested the study Sunday evening outside Duke Chapel after the university’s annual Martin Luther King Jr. service.
They passed out fliers posing the question “Duke: A hostile environment for its black students?” and held signs that said, among other things, “Does GPA have a color?”
The students have called on the university administration to provide “a complete public account” of Duke’s “effort to ensure an optimal learning environment for black students” and “provide a public affirmation of the university’s commitment to diversity, as well as its full support for policies and programs that promote the success of black students.”
Here's another that blows my mind...
Thus, affirmative action does not call for the admission of students of color who lag behind their peers. It simply serves to increase the representation of women and minorities in areas where they have been historically underrepresented...
“CAROLINA Blue, baby!!!!
GOD’S COUNTRY!!!!!!!!”
I keep getting caught in the “Blues!”
First I was at Penn State.... (Blue & White)
Then I moved to Duke in 2010 (lived in Duke Forest right on the edge of campus)(Dark Blue)
And this year I moved my home to Chapel Hill! Funny thing, one of the UNC coaches lives in my neighborhood. He planted the wrong grass seed in his lawn and it all died and left him with a brown lawn. The homeowner’s association said something to him about it so he had a company come in and spray his lawn with paint to make it green. But instead of green, the paint left him with a “Carolina Blue” lawn! LOL
This has been the case for 30 years.
In top schools, in high horspower majors, plenty of decent smart folks just get filtered out.
A guy in my frat - 30 years ago at Cornell - failed out of eng in like a semester. Didn’t make it to finals - just - boom. Went back to big State School - and got A- average - still in Eng.
There is a secondary effect of AA - and that is - even the smart black kids - don’t have to be as smart - and they know this. So - they can get into grad school, or business, with lower numbers. This actually works to disincentivize them from achieving. It is in the numbers.
It is pretty logical - a kid failing out of Eng or Chemistry (getting his butt kicked) - moves to business - and gets B+/A- - and can get into MBA school. The admission requirements for blacks - are just lower. They just - are.
In fact - a white kid - might HAVE TO keep fighting in Eng school - because he is not going to have the “hand on the scale” for admissions to Law School or MBA that the black kid will have.
Look at our President - average student at Columia in Poli-Sci - gets into Harvard Law? I’m sorry - but >90% of my college friends meet or beat that requirement - and we wouldn’t even apply to Harvard law.
That's the other 9%.
The deck just isn't stacked for them, they own the deck.
Oh, yeah, and on the "black side of the family", his baby-daddy (putative of course) was a Harvard grad ~ making Obama himself a "legacy" of more recent vintage.
My major... I’m retired. Wife is an MD on faculty at School of Medicine.
I taught tax law for years, returned to class, picked up a degree in psychology (talk about a piece of cake in comparison to the business & science curriculum) and went on to study cognitive neuroscience and religion. I’ll be studying and learning until I am pushing posies.
Love it here as I can attend all the Grand Rounds at two wonderful Hospitals (Duke & UNC) and the neuroscience programs and lectures. Both are absolutely wonderful programs.
I’m pretty sure you still have to request to change majors.
Also - just fyi - the people in the “more difficult” majors are usually higher performing than the regular majors.
They do things like - take classes in the weaker majors - so they don’t have to study for the class, to leave time for their regular classes.
But - for Duke and Black kids - they would never let them go. They would hold into them as long as they could - they need the numbers. Just like in industry.
What is really happening - is there just aren’t enough qty of smart black kids to meet the demands of AA and equality numbers. So - Duke takes - say - 170 Black kids. 85 are as smart as average Duke. 85 are “diversity” plenty smart, just not at the level of he first 85.
This second 85 - would be fine at UNC, or NC State, or etc. But now they are at Duke - getting high pressure tested.
It actually hurts blacks - because the same kid would do fine at NC State, be a great engineer or Chemist, etc. But - because he is put in a slot too hard for him - feels out of place, and a failure.
This is repeated every day at every school in the country. It is very damaging.
Thus, you cannot possibly get to [2] without totally embracing the affirmative of [1]. If one merely seeks to provide equal opportunity for all starting at Kindergarten, then a whole generation of "deserving" victim class citizens will be underrepresented in professional careers.
Furthermore, after striving for a generation to provide equal opportunity in education for all, what does one do when the hoped-for results in the professional career demographics do not materialize? Blame racism and sexism again and re-institute hardcore quota affirmative action?
Maybe 20 or 30 tears ago. Not now.
“many of the underprivileged are not provided with the academic opportunities from pre-K through 12”
I’m sorry to say, it’s the reality. Our education system (and parents) lacks the ability or motivation to inspire children with the desire to learn. Inspire that desire and the rest takes care of itself. You can’t put out the fire of a passion for learning.
For many years I funded and coordinated a pre-school reading program. My philosophy is, if you create the desire to learn to read in children at an early age, they will love it and be readers the rest of their lives. If you wait until school begins and make them work to learn to read, they will view it negatively and resist reading the rest of their lives. I closed the program when Clinton’s Americore workers started the same thing at the local library competing directly against what I was doing. They lasted a short time and closed, but I was gone by then.
Harvard is weird - my comments do not pertain to harvard - as they have always been much more politicized admissions.
However - be careful buying into these “legacy” stories.
It usually only counts for a few points.
One reason it seems to affect Ivy admissions so much - is that many of the applicants - already have near perfect applications.
4.0 GPA, very high SAT, etc etc - so - a few points for “legacy” becomes a large differentiator - not because it is so valuable, but because there is little left to differentiate between the already excellent students. -
imagine - 5 students - 99 pts, 98 pts, 97 pts, 98 pts, and 99 pts. Give 2 pts for legacy to the 97, and he gets in over the 98s. The difference - pre legacy - was like a 3.7 GPA vs 3.65 GPA. Because there is no real differentiation - the few pts - becomes a significant differentiator.
This is my demographic - my friends kids - legacies - didn’t get in with Dad contributing every year, and junior with 2200 SAT, 3.8GPA, 3 sports, Captain, and band leader.
There are always a few kids who get in because Grandpa’s name is on a building - but these are small numbers.
As far as Harvard and Obama - he got in for two reasons - 1.) Black, and 2.) some connections somewhere - he didn’t just wander into that Ayers relationship. He probably needed both.
It still pays to be able to show a vast preponderance of Harvard grads in your ancestry, and having an African baby-daddy appears to work ~ after all, there simply aren't a lot of them around.
Perzactly!
Blacks should simply be handed whatever degrees they want (shrug).
Why go through all the hassle and pretense?
It would save a lot of money, and qualified white and Asian students wouldn’t be denied acceptance because the college has to “make room” for quota fillers.
Win-win for everybody.
I had a fellow student from my high school who obnoxiously managed a straight A average. When we started at Revelle College, UCSD, my classmate lasted one quarter. He changed to an easier major at the Muir College campus at UCSD. I asked why? He said he knew he wouldn't be able to sustain a straight A average at Revelle. I finished my Molecular Biology degree with a 3.82 in 2 1/2 years at Revelle. No idea whether my classmate finished at all.
My current next door neighbors are both graduates of UCSD in anthropology. One delivers pizzas. The other runs a home business doing sex toy parties. It's not a recipe for a bright future.
Based upon the study, a substantially greater portion of the black students selected majors and changed while white students stayed in the “Do Not Know” or undeclared as incoming freshmen.
Do not Know White 34.5% Black 21.7%
This could be a result of one person who was a minority adviser pushing their advisees to make an early selection. That resulted in an unrealistic selection by the incoming freshman. It could be caused by a simple policy that makes it more difficult to enter a major by transfer than taking advantage of the minority preference at time of admission.
There are too many unrelated factors influencing the results which were not considered in the study to give it much credibility.
“A guy in my frat - 30 years ago at Cornell - failed out of eng in like a semester. Didn’t make it to finals - just - boom. Went back to big State School - and got A- average - still in Eng.”
That’s what happens when you leave your drinking & party buddies behind! LOL I too was in a frat.. TKE Sure did not help my GPA!
You somehow think if your parents, grand parents and g. grandparents went to Harvard you will be accepted? LOL I know a lot of folks who wish that were the case.
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